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Safety Guy
09-15-2009, 11:34 AM
I introduced myself in the intro thread, but for those of you who didn't read it, I am a novice at this and use layperson vocabulary.

However, I am a quick learner and really need your help in making this site as successful as we can make it.

WARNING: My story below...

I am a successful middle school band director of 16 yrs and I love it. However, I have been hired by my neighbor, who owns a Safety Consulting business and needed a little economic boost. Who doesn't, right? Well, that's why I took on the challenge...

Anyway, I started in his office just filing papers, but I needed to more so I started trying to find leads using craigslist, indeed, and others.
Ideas just started flowing and I found myself asking questions like, "what if I started networking on forums?" and "what if this" and "what if that"...

Which then led me into posting services that started turning up on Google's searches... Mark and Walt, my neighbor and his father who own and run the company, got excited that I was able to build their manpower and expose their company's name without huge expenses and low returns they were getting from the newspaper and yellowbook. I figured it to just be common sense.

I started "advertising" everywhere and started learning/knowing the sites that would consistantly show my posts and ads on the first page of a google search. Then, I started adding links to the website in the posts and forums and blogs OH MY!!!! Now I have stuff out there all over the place.

The company's current site is not good to say the least. It's like 3 very blue pictures out in internetland that do nothing. Unless there is an organic google search for it.

Mark and Walt have really liked the return on the work that I have done outside of the official site so much that they have hired a major website company to rebuild the official site that will actually work for them.
Here is the current site(s) that are being rebuilt: www.safetytemps.com (http://www.safetytemps.com)and www.nationalsafetyconsulting.com (http://www.nationalsafetyconsulting.com)
In the mean time, Missouri has passed a new bill requiring all contactors bidding on municipalities to have 10 Hour OSHA safety training. I have been posting like mad to conjure up business and have talked Mark and Walt into pinching $80.00 out of their bottoms to own a domain name and a site that I'm hoping will bring in business. This is where you come in and where all my questions begin.

So, for those of you who made it through my long @$$ story, here is my $80.00 site that I need to impress Mark and Walt with:
www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com (http://www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com)

My templates are limited and so is the flash. Right now, I just need people to find the site without having to go back 8 to 15 pages. I'm trying to figure out my SEO's on the home page, but I still feel like that google isn't picking this site up..... So, Where do I start? Not all of you at once now.

Thank you,
Drew

rezzy
09-15-2009, 04:23 PM
I am a little confused, as I dont understand its purpose. What are you trying to do? And what help are you looking for?

Is it getting the people to buy it? Getting SEO going? Something else?

Safety Guy
09-15-2009, 05:29 PM
First, I appreciate you taking the time to read all that stuff. Next, sorry I wasn't clear... I thought I was being too specific.

I need the 10 hour osha training missouri site to be found when potential clients use the search terms below:
10 hour training
10 hour osha training missouri
10 hour osha training
OSHA news
safety news
safety training
safety program
safety coordinator
construction safety
safety st. louis

Then, I need to generate leads off the site... you know, because it's so awesome (heh heh).
When potential clients call in, I would love to have Walt or Mark tell me that it was due to this site.
It would be so cool for this little rinky dink site to compete with the one they are actually paying for...

Harold Mansfield
09-15-2009, 07:51 PM
First, I appreciate you taking the time to read all that stuff. Next, sorry I wasn't clear... I thought I was being too specific.

I need the 10 hour osha training missouri site to be found when potential clients use the search terms below:
10 hour training
10 hour osha training missouri
10 hour osha training
OSHA news
safety news
safety training
safety program
safety coordinator
construction safety
safety st. louis

Then, I need to generate leads off the site... you know, because it's so awesome (heh heh).
When potential clients call in, I would love to have Walt or Mark tell me that it was due to this site.
It would be so cool for this little rinky dink site to compete with the one they are actually paying for...

So basically you need SEO tips to draw traffic to your site.
The first thing I will tell you, is, unless you are doing this on a national scale, it is much easier to target local search...so you need to narrow your focus on your area (state, city, county..what ever)
It's much easier to rank for local search terms and keywords than with the entire www.
Of the terms you have listed, they need to be more specific:

10 hour (osha) training (in missouri)
(missouri osha training)
10 hour osha training (st.louis )
OSHA news - waaay to vague to rank for
safety news - dito- and here, no sense in targeting this term, if you are not going to actually provide a updated news daily, weekly or monthly.
(missouri) safety training -
(missouri) safety program
(missouri)safety coordinator
(missouri) construction safety
safety st. louis (training)

I was never too clear on what kind of training it was, except for OSHA, but for what industry ? You need to get specific with the industry as well. For instance: "missouri manufacturing osha training".

People may start off searching for vague terms, but search requests get specific as they try and narrow down exactly what they are looking for...these are generally referred to as "long tail keywords"

Second, the quickest (maybe I shouldn't say that) way to get noticed by SE's is with fresh content that provides information relevant to the search...IOW, a static website will be harder than a blog (If you are not very versed in SEO) where you can add articles daily, weekly, or what ever the news cycle is to provide updates on this particular issue.

I know that I have just brought up something that you didn't ask about, but you can get a lot of miles from a blog in terms of SEO, including Syndication of your content, social media integration (don't know how relevant that would be for the demographic), but most importantly, you can target each new entry at the keyword of each update.

A basic blog is not expensive to set up, and relatively easy to operate (Unless you want a custom design and configuration). Once you get it installed, if you can use MS Word, you can post on a blog.

If you choose not to get into a blog and just want to work with what you have, then I suggest article marketing to draw traffic to the site..try and write articles about the issue for industry and trade sites, or publications in your area. Get published somewhere where your demographic is looking. See if there are any local forums out there about it and spend an hour or so a week participating. You of course will be linking back to your site by doing all of this.

This is all just off the top of my head, taking into account that you will be likely doing the work and not hiring someone. Much of this may need some fine tuning, but you get the idea.

One thing that you should understand, while local key phrases are easier to target because generally there is less competition (unless you are a limo service in Vegas or NY), but SEO is an ongoing process that takes time to gain momentum. You may get some quick spurts of success in your rankings, depending on how well you target your keywords and phrases, but long term results..especially if there is competition out there targeting the same phrases...takes continuous maintenance and work.

orion_joel
09-15-2009, 08:06 PM
A few things for the site itself to start with.

- Get rid of the 4 horizontal lines in the text on the first page.
- Make that text a little bigger it is hard to read.
- Some pages on the site do not load, or take a long time
- While others are quite quick but include the same information on every page.

Due to this last point, and the limited number of pages that are there i think you will find that the search engines may not pay your site a lot of attention. Putting some more information in some of the other area's may help to build the chance of getting listed well in search engines.

One way you can get in results is with Google Adwords, however this will add additional cost. Also i think that this company could benefit from a blog of some sort or from including more information that is constantly updated and/or added to. This i believe would help to improve the chances of them being found in search results.

vangogh
09-16-2009, 12:06 PM
First I'll echo what's been said above. Also know that seo doesn't happen overnight. It looks like you already have a decent amount of competition for the keywords you want to rank for. One quick thing you can do is add your domain name to all page titles. For example

Missouri House Bill 1549 | 10 Hour Osha Training Missouri

That at least gets more of your keywords on every page.

You'll also want to make sure you're using the keyword phrases on the page themselves. I don't mean you should stuff more and more of those words into each page, but do make sure you're at least using the phrases you want the page to rank for. Group a few of the phrases and target on page of the site for those phrases. Then target another page for a different group of phrases.

Do you know that people actually use the phrases you mentioned? Are they just phrases you think people are using or do you know those phrases are actually used? You may find that people don't really use the phrases you're targeting, but other phrases that have less competition

Some free keyword research tools

Wordtracker (http://freekeywords.wordtracker.com/keyword-suggestion-tool.html)
Keyword Discovery (http://www.keyworddiscovery.com/search.html)
Google AdWords Keyword Tool (https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal)

Something tells me the phrases you're hoping to rank for aren't going to bring in as much traffic as you think even if you do rank for them. Use the tools above to find more words and phrases that can pull traffic.

When you have the phrases try building pages around those phrases. For example eborg mentioned 'construction safety' as a potential phrase. Why not build a page specifically about construction safety in Missouri? Just writing the page will naturally use keywords related to the main phrase. Do the same with other keyword themes and build out your site. Make it useful to people so they want to bookmark the page and tell others and link to the page.

Speaking of links you'll probably need to drive some links to the site. You could look for some directories that might list your site or try other similar things to get a few quick low quality links. Add a link in your forum signature here and at any other forum where you post.

Ultimately you want other people linking to you on their own because you have a site they want to recommend. As it is now I doubt anyone is going to be running out to recommend your site. There isn't much there at the moment. Build it out in a way that makes it a useful resource to people.

Instead of a page inviting people to a safety training program create a section of the site about safety training. Have a page with statistics on accidents in the construction industry. Have another page comparing accidents at OSHA and non OSHA companies. Create a page explaining the ultimate cost savings by having a safer company. At the bottom or top or on the side of all those pages show the contact info for the training class.

cbscreative
09-16-2009, 01:24 PM
Excellent suggestions so far.

One more point on what vangogh said:

Instead of a page inviting people to a safety training program create a section of the site about safety training. Have a page with statistics on accidents in the construction industry. Have another page comparing accidents at OSHA and non OSHA companies. Create a page explaining the ultimate cost savings by having a safer company. At the bottom or top or on the side of all those pages show the contact info for the training class.

These types of pages will invite links without having to ask for them. If you build quality content, the links will come as other site owners will want ot link rather than reinvent the wheel.

The most important thing has already been said, but I will repeat it for emphasis: This all takes time and work. The good news is, once you get the results, they get better over time if you just stay with it. Since there are so many lazy people who want a quick fix with little to no effort, there are great rewards for those willing to get their hands dirty.

I'm going to make one more suggestion, but I want to be clear that building great content is your first priority. AFTER you have some great content, look for blogs related to your site, and preferrably even start your own blog too. You will not only learn a lot from these blogs, you can make useful comments and link back to your own blog or site. This will give you more exposure which will serve to invite the links mentioned above.

One last thing, clean up your text formatting. DO NOT use centered text. Use left aligned "normal" paragraphs. Headings and subheadings (h1 and h2 tags) also help break up the content for readablity, and search engines also pay attention to headings if you use the right tags.

Safety Guy
09-16-2009, 02:07 PM
Holy shmokesh... alright...
Let me get to work on the afformentioned.
We'll revisit and see how we're doin'...
Thanks all.

Harold Mansfield
09-16-2009, 06:30 PM
Holy shmokesh... alright...
Let me get to work on the afformentioned.
We'll revisit and see how we're doin'...
Thanks all.

LOL, yeah...there's a lot to it. Trust me, if there was a magic button we would have all pushed it by now...heaven knows I've looked for it. Probably spent more time looking for shortcuts in the beginning, than just rolling up my sleeves and getting started.

The good news is, you do actually learn it, and then it's just tedious :D

orion_joel
09-16-2009, 08:09 PM
I think that the first few if not moe then few sites can be the hardest. Trying to figure out what to do when and where, how to do it, what to pay for, what not to pay for. The more you do these things, the easier finding the answers becomes.

The next hardest step is actually getting a system to the creation, I have got to the point that i finally decided to make a point by point plan that i can easily duplicate to create a new site. This is broken into two parts, the first approx 20 steps covers install and configure of wordpress, the rest is what pages i need to create in what order for the site.

The only thing that i am still to fully work out is how to actually make some money from doing this. If and when i can duplicate that it will be fantastic.

Harold Mansfield
09-16-2009, 09:17 PM
I think that the first few if not moe then few sites can be the hardest. Trying to figure out what to do when and where, how to do it, what to pay for, what not to pay for. The more you do these things, the easier finding the answers becomes.

The next hardest step is actually getting a system to the creation, I have got to the point that i finally decided to make a point by point plan that i can easily duplicate to create a new site. This is broken into two parts, the first approx 20 steps covers install and configure of wordpress, the rest is what pages i need to create in what order for the site.

The only thing that i am still to fully work out is how to actually make some money from doing this. If and when i can duplicate that it will be fantastic.

I did that a while ago ..pretty much got it down to a science now. My host finally has one click install now, so it takes about 5 seconds to get the platform on a domain....that was a big help..WP takes forever to install from scratch.

I actually have mine down to around 10 steps, and I use an automation tool or 2, but most of the time is spent on headers, logos, and any reconfiguring.

Some days I can bang out the content to get one started without ever looking up or taking a break. Sometimes I'll even open it up in different windows and spread it across the monitors and do simultaneous functions...but that can get hairy if you aren't paying attention.... other days, the thesaurus is open on one monitor and I can't remember what a conjunction is without singing the School House Rock song.

But it does save time when you have your steps laid out, and everything organized in folders ready to go.

vangogh
09-17-2009, 01:43 AM
WP takes forever to install from scratch.

It's never seemed that way to me. Other than waiting to upload the files, the process seems really quick. And with the upload you can do other things while it's happening.

Drew SEO can take some time to understand. There's a lot of misinformation out there. Take Steve's advice and put the focus on build a truly useful site. That alone isn't enough, but if you start there a lot of other things can fall into place.

Harold Mansfield
09-17-2009, 10:34 AM
It's never seemed that way to me. Other than waiting to upload the files, the process seems really quick. And with the upload you can do other things while it's happening.


I'm pretty impatient once I start working and I want everything to happen right when I click it. I know it's unrealistic in a lot of situations, but hey..I was raised on T.V. remotes and drive through food...I want instant gratification, probably like a lot of people in this age.

vangogh
09-17-2009, 11:44 AM
I can understand and it definitely is quicker to do the one click install. It's just that I never found the manual install of WordPress to be slow. The only time consuming part is uploading the files.

Harold Mansfield
09-17-2009, 12:19 PM
The only time consuming part is uploading the files.

Yeah, that's the part ! Once it's in, it's fine, but hopefully, I won't have to go back to that again since I don't plan on changing hosts, ever.

billbenson
09-17-2009, 01:29 PM
I've also heard that fantastico isn't always kept up to date with all hosts.

You also might want to consider developing sites locally on your pc. That way you do all development on your pc. Say you change a css file. You make the change and save the file and you can see the change immediately. No ftp to see what the change looks like. Same with adding themes. Plus you have a backup on your pc. I find it a really convenient way to work. Its just a couple of clicks to do the localhost install. When the sites done or when you want to show it to a customer or debug anything on the actual server, you upload it. If you need more info, let me know.

Harold Mansfield
09-17-2009, 01:38 PM
I've also heard that fantastico isn't always kept up to date with all hosts.

You also might want to consider developing sites locally on your pc. That way you do all development on your pc. Say you change a css file. You make the change and save the file and you can see the change immediately. No ftp to see what the change looks like. Same with adding themes. Plus you have a backup on your pc. I find it a really convenient way to work. Its just a couple of clicks to do the localhost install. When the sites done or when you want to show it to a customer or debug anything on the actual server, you upload it. If you need more info, let me know.

I can understand making the hacks and changes locally, but how do you view it if the files are not uploaded onto the operating platform ? Yeah I want to know more about this !

bacterozoid
09-17-2009, 02:46 PM
eborg, you can set your PC up with a web server so you can run server-side code and operate a database. Then you can view local copies of websites on your PC. It might get a little hairy with wordpress, but should still work just fine.

Bill, I refuse to use any editor that does not have an FTP plugin. At work (my real job), I develop my local PC but the code runs on a test server we set up. In order to not have to manually FTP files all the time, I just use notepad++ or netbeans with FTP...I save the file on my PC, and the program uploads it instantly for me.

billbenson
09-17-2009, 02:57 PM
What you are doing is installing Apache, php, and mysql on your computer so your computer is acting like a server for site development. It doesn't use many computer resources, so it won't slow your pc down in my experience. You place your site in a folder. You view your site by using any web browser and typing http://localhost/site.

So you you create a db via phpmyadmin on your pc, extract wp to a directory, run the wp install just like you would if you uploaded it to your host. Done. Now all you have to do is add any themes, change any files etc that you were doing via ftp locally. One other nice thing is if you loose internet, you can still work.

xaamp and easy php are the two I have used recently. I recommend xaamp. Download and install xaamp at the link below. It should just be a few clicks for the default install. When you get that done, post and I'll walk you through putting a site on it. It's really easy.

apache friends - xampp for windows (http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html)

@bacterozoid: You are in a different environment if you are developing for a company. I assume you would have multiple people working on a site at the same time. Eborg and myself are solo. I don't see the need for uploading immediately for us in most circumstances. I use a memory stick for backup.

having said that, having ftp in your text editor would be convenient. Do you have one you like for Linux?

bacterozoid
09-17-2009, 03:32 PM
I typically use one called AppServ, but I'm not too thrilled with some of the default configuration settings. It is easy to install, though.

Bill, you're right that "auto-ftp" isn't always useful. In a multi-user environment with shared code libraries it's handy for sure. However, most of the time development should be done on a test server, then mass-uploaded to the active server when it's ready...any FTP program can take care of that.

Where it comes in handy is if your test server is not your development PC. That's the case for me. I run my own web server but develop on another PC for all my freelance work. I'm saving myself a lot of time by using a text-editor with FTP.

As far as Linux editors go, it looks like NetBeans runs on Linux. I've come to like it. It's good at managing my projects and giving me function lists and the sort. It has good syntax highlighting and code completion. It's not slow but slower than Notepad or Notepad++. It doesn't hinder my work, though.

Eclipse is another good editor, but very bulky and may be hard to use if you're not familiar with it. I used it for years for Java projects. It has a PHP plugin and no doubt a FTP plugin. It's also free and runs on Linux.

billbenson
09-17-2009, 05:20 PM
I've heard of NetBeans but haven't looked at it. I was using Eclipse for a while, but like you said the learning curve is a bit steep and I didn't dig into it. I just reverted to Bluefish which "OK". I'd like to try a few others but you know... The time thing.

Xammp (or however its spelled) has been the most highly recommended package I've seen from programmers. It works fine for me. The big problem is path problems with some of the packages if you are using globals locally under windows. Easy PHP installs under program files, for example. It fails if you use a server global because it doesn't like spaces in paths such as "Program Files". On windows, I don't know where xampp (looked it up, thats the proper spelling) installs itself, so I don't know if that is an issue.

Eborg, don't worry about the path thing above, it won't affect developing wp sites locally. They work locally out of the box.

I believe VG has used local development under both windows and mac. He might have some experience with the path issue there. It works fine under Linux but thats not a big surprise...

orion_joel
09-17-2009, 08:23 PM
I think that the develop locally and test before putting online becomes a little redundant with Wordpress especially, as you can edit and save and view the changes immediately.

Additionally if your host uses cpanel or has any kind of decent file management plugin on their equivalent there are a number of things you can do to save time. For example you can upload a compressed file with cpanel, and un-compress it through file manager, as it is a lot quicker to upload a single file then lots of small ones. Maybe can do this with FT as well, not sure.

Also the later versions of Cpanel have really good code editor in anyway. Since i found this and the above with the file manager i have not once touched an FTP program, everything is upload compressed, then un-compressed, and installed and all editing online.

Harold Mansfield
09-17-2009, 08:49 PM
I'm not really having a problem doing it the way I have been, the only thing I was thinking about is in an instance of not getting paid the final installment and not wanting the site to be live if I'm getting jerked around, but a simple plug in handles that.

As far as Fantastico, C-Panel and all the others that I have seen, I have never used any of them so I don't know what I'm missing. Just straight drag and drop via FTP, editing in notepad...I guess that's kind of raw, but I like it like that.

vangogh
09-18-2009, 12:51 AM
I refuse to use any editor that does not have an FTP plugin

Same here. Having built in FTP is an essential part of an editor for me. Even more I want to have the ability to edit live on the server instead of always having to download the file, edit it, and then upload again. On the PC I used to use a free program called HTML Kit and now I use Coda on the Mac. Coda also has a built in terminal which is nice.

eborg when I'm installing WordPress I usually set up the database first and then upload the files. The files only take about 10 minutes to upload and while that's going on I'm usually getting something else done so I don't really notice the time in most cases. I can see where if you're installing WP a lot having an automated solution makes sense.


ow do you view it if the files are not uploaded

Like everyone said you have to install a server on your local machine. The easy way is xaamp or one of its variants, which will also give you php and mysql. I actually set them all up manually on my last PC for the learning experience. They all came pre-installed on my Mac, though I did have to tweak a few things, which was again a learning experience.

Harold Mansfield
09-18-2009, 12:20 PM
Same here. Having built in FTP is an essential part of an editor for me. Even more I want to have the ability to edit live on the server instead of always having to download the file, edit it, and then upload again. On the PC I used to use a free program called HTML Kit and now I use Coda on the Mac. Coda also has a built in terminal which is nice.
.

You guys are bringing things that I have never tried, or done. I always edit my files right from the server via FTP, I guess that would be doing everything "live".
I just open the files I need in notepad, make my changes, save it, check it, done. I do always have the originals handy, or any edited versions.

The concept of doing it "virtually" first seems like extra steps to me, especially if the foundation is already laid. I can see where that would come in handy in mock up phase, but isn't it like doing it twice...I mean even if you do it live and need to adjust some code, it only takes a second or two to reopen the file and do it.
Not only that, but if you are not making and viewing each edit live, are you getting an accurate representation of how it all comes together when it is live ?

Couldn't you get the same effect by building on a folder of the domain first and then just moving it over to the root when it's complete ?

Which brings up a question..Why do some sites leave the configuration files on a folder, instead of the main domain ? You know like when you go to someones home page and it's "www theirdomain com/folder.html" instead of just "www theirdomain com" ? What's the purpose of reason for that ? I always thought that looked sloppy.

billbenson
09-18-2009, 01:09 PM
If I understand your question, eborg, the reason for developing locally is speed, backup, and being able to work offline. You do everything on your pc then upload it.

For quick changes it doesn't make sense.

Safety Guy
09-18-2009, 02:13 PM
What in the heck are guys talking about? I go away for a little while and see what happens? heh heh....

Alright... sorry to butt in on your conversation here. However, on the the site (http://www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com),
When I make updates, I have the opportunity to "PUBLUISH ALL" or "PUBLISH UPDATES". Wouldn't I want to "PUBLISH ALL" each time?

and

Is the site starting to look better or make more sense? I still can't find the darn thing on a google search...

cbscreative
09-18-2009, 02:48 PM
LOL, Drew, I was wondering what you would say when you got back here.

vangogh
09-18-2009, 03:10 PM
Sorry Drew. We have a habit of going off topic at times. :)

The site is looking better. One thing I notice immediately is the video in the sidebar on the home page is too wide for the sidebar. You'll either have to make the sidebar wider or move the video into the content area.

When you publish you probably only need to publish the updates. The other files haven't changed so there's no reason to upload them again. Publishing all is a bit redundant.

Ok now back to the off topic

@eborg - you develop locally mostly for the reasons Bill mentioned. One other reason is you can develop in private. If it's online someone could see it before you're ready. I sometimes develop locally and sometimes on the sever. I always start locally and at some point move development to the server. Sometimes I don't want clients to see the site till it's reached a certain point. Sometimes it's simply the speed of accessing local files as opposed to going over the internet. Sometimes I want to work offline.

Also there are times when I may be working on a client's site or a project of my own when there's no domain set up yet.

billbenson
09-18-2009, 04:31 PM
Hmmm, was a bit of a hijack here wasn't there. Sorry Drew.

eborg, I guess start a different thread if you have questions. I think if you start developing locally, you will like it a lot for what you do.

Oh, another thing you can do by working locally is install scripts or write your own locally. I've always kept all phone numbers, customers, long term notes in an excel sheet. I'm currently writing a script to put it all in. A custom db of an address book if you will. I bet if you looked, you could find a ton of useful scripts. By running it locally, its pretty secure. Just keep an address book tab open in your web browser. Opens really fast.

Harold Mansfield
09-18-2009, 06:09 PM
What in the heck are guys talking about? I go away for a little while and see what happens? heh heh....

Alright... sorry to butt in on your conversation here. However, on the the site (http://www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com),
When I make updates, I have the opportunity to "PUBLUISH ALL" or "PUBLISH UPDATES". Wouldn't I want to "PUBLISH ALL" each time?

and

Is the site starting to look better or make more sense? I still can't find the darn thing on a google search...

I don't know what platform you are using, but, it seems that "publish updates" would be sufficient.
You can't find it on Google yet because you haven't optimized anything, or submitted it.

It will eventually find it on it's own, generally as more links point to it, but you are going to need to do a little more on site SEO.

Safety Guy
09-21-2009, 01:58 PM
OSHA 10 Hour Training Missouri10 Hour OSHA Training Missouri is a site dedicated to bringing clients information relevant to safety programs, safety training, osha training and news, ...
www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com/OSHA_10_Hour_Training_Misso.html - Cached - Similar

Found this in a Google search, but it's broken... What happened?

Safety Guy
09-21-2009, 01:59 PM
How do I "optimize"?

Harold Mansfield
09-21-2009, 03:48 PM
OSHA 10 Hour Training Missouri10 Hour OSHA Training Missouri is a site dedicated to bringing clients information relevant to safety programs, safety training, osha training and news, ...
www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com/OSHA_10_Hour_Training_Misso.html - Cached - Similar

Found this in a Google search, but it's broken... What happened?
Hard to say, most likely it's a dead link to a page that was published and changed, deleted, or retitled. The link doesn't match any pages or posts that are currently on your site.

That happens, but usually a dead link will point to a 404 error page that is on the site, so readers can still access other pages or posts to find what they are looking for.


How do I "optimize"?
I stand corrected, I thought that you hadn't done any site description, tags or anything, but I see that you have done some, but I don't feel that they are exactly targeted the way you need them to be.
Edited: I think you are targeting to broad and need to really narrow in on specifics. You cannot rank well out of the gate for terms like "Osha", "Safety Training", "Construction Safety", and the number "10". They are very broad terms that I am sure hundreds of websites are targeting. You need to narrow in on specifics and region.

If I understand it correctly, you are offering a 10 hour Osha Safety training course for the construction industry in the St. Louis area. So (just a for instance) instead of the broad term "Safety Training" you should maybe get specific "St. Louis Area Safety Training" or "Osha Safety Training", or "St. Louis Area Construction Safety"...just some ideas.

You should also have a site map (http://www.xml-sitemaps.com/) to help the SE spiders index what is on your site.

It also helps to ping (http://pingomatic.com/)your content to let SE's know that you have updated, and also tag and add descriptions to your images.

I am concerned with some of the structure of your pages, particularly the columns that have differing sets of information. To get the most benefit, they should be tagged and titled separately...IOW, if you have 2 different articles under one general page description, you are not getting the most out of either in relationship to SE's, and you are relying on the spiders to tell the difference and index the information separately..and they won't. It will all be seen as one big article and only the page title will be indexed properly. You want as much separate information indexed as possible, preferably with it's own link destination.

The first 140-160 words are very important, as well as the title and link structure, to get the most benefit from search engine spiders, and most times it will also serve as the excerpt that tells people what kind of information is on the page.

If you use that important "introduction" to each page with untagged images and links, you are not giving the page enough initial presence to be picked up well.

Search Engine spiders don't read images as content. It sees them as a blank area. Even Google images relies on you to tag the image with alternate text.

There is a learning curve when you are doing this for the first time, no doubt about it.
I sent you a PM a few days ago. You really should check it out.

vangogh
09-21-2009, 04:06 PM
At one time you must have had a page with that UR, but have since changed something in the URL. When you change the URL of a page it's a completely new page as far as search engines are concerned.

How do you optimize isn't a question that can be answered in a single post or thread. One place you can start learning is the SEOmoz Beginner's Guide to Search Engine Optimization (http://www.seomoz.org/article/beginners-guide-to-search-engine-optimization). Understand it's just a starting point.

Optimizing a site isn't something where you apply a few quick tips to your site and then it works. It's about understanding how search engines work and what they want to present in their search results. The basics are fairly easy to understand, but you'll only understand them by looking at SEO with a holistic viewpoint. See the forest, not the trees. The details of SEO can become very complex. Fortunately most people will never need to concern themselves with all the complex details.

Harold Mansfield
09-21-2009, 05:44 PM
Optimizing a site isn't something where you apply a few quick tips to your site and then it works. It's about understanding how search engines work and what they want to present in their search results. The basics are fairly easy to understand, but you'll only understand them by looking at SEO with a holistic viewpoint. See the forest, not the trees. The details of SEO can become very complex. Fortunately most people will never need to concern themselves with all the complex details.

I just wanted to second that. You really can't learn it, or the basic design principles that affect it on the fly, especially as fast as you need it to be up, ready, functional and professional.

It is an ongoing process for both your website and keeping updated with the general knowledge.
It's not incredibly difficult, but it takes time, and is time consuming.

Safety Guy
09-23-2009, 02:13 PM
Here's 1000000 dollars for you and here's a million dollars for you....
Let me check my PM's and study the stuff you guys just gave me...

Safety Guy
09-24-2009, 03:51 PM
Yes! I had retitled my pages to "safety training st. louis" I found in the Google Keyword Tool thing that "safety training" had like 240,000 hits. So I added st. louis, mo to the title... that would explain the broken link I'm thinkin'...

Okay... I did this too. I put in a bunch of cities/states, but fonted them in white so viewers dont have to scan through, but will the SE's pick 'em up?

cbscreative
09-24-2009, 04:51 PM
I put in a bunch of cities/states, but fonted them in white so viewers dont have to scan through, but will the SE's pick 'em up?

I recommend against that. SE's see that as spamming and keyword stuffing.

Harold Mansfield
09-24-2009, 08:11 PM
Yes! I had retitled my pages to "safety training st. louis" I found in the Google Keyword Tool thing that "safety training" had like 240,000 hits. So I added st. louis, mo to the title... that would explain the broken link I'm thinkin'...

Okay... I did this too. I put in a bunch of cities/states, but fonted them in white so viewers dont have to scan through, but will the SE's pick 'em up?

Yeah, trying to hide text is an old trick used back in the early days. SE's have been hip to it since the beginning.
Don't fall into the trap of using tricks and shortcuts..there are none that are going to be effective in the long run, and some will even get you banned by Google or thrown to the back of the bus and no one will ever find your site unless you tell them about it.

Pick the most coveted keywords and target them. You cannot get ahead by trying to be everything for everybody, all at once.
If you actually provide service for differing cities, then you should target them separately..sometimes that is done with different optimized landing pages on subdomains or folders, with specifics for the service that you provide for each market, or you can target a more global or nationwide approach.

Even though local targeting yields less competition, if you try and target all local markets all at once, you are pretty much right back where you started....trying to win 50 races at once win one runner.

vangogh
09-24-2009, 09:59 PM
I'm echoing everyone on the hidden text. If Google finds out it's bye bye site. Search engines want you to show them the same content you're showing to real people. While there are some exceptions for the most part not showing the same content to both is considered spam.

Like eborg said there aren't any tricks or shortcuts to this. Everyone wants their site to rank #1 for everything yesterday, but that's not how it works.

cbscreative
09-25-2009, 12:59 PM
Yeah, the long haul is an important thing to remember. Getting reindexed can take months sometimes, especially with Google. If you want to keep closer tabs on how your changes are working, use Yahoo, they tend to reward on page optimization a lot faster. It's still risky to draw any conclusions in less than 30-60 days though.

Safety Guy
09-25-2009, 01:55 PM
Got it... glad I asked. Seemed like a good idea...

Safety Guy
09-25-2009, 01:58 PM
Okay... thank you all for the heads up--- we're ligit again!

vangogh
09-25-2009, 11:25 PM
Good. The best thing you can learn about seo as a beginner is that it isn't about looking for some magic formula. It's a common first thought that if you can just place the right word in the right place you'll rank well and get search traffic. That was probably true about 10 years ago when there wasn't much competition, but it no longer works.

SEO is really just a subset of marketing. It's not even about trying to get the most traffic. It's about trying to get the right kind of traffic. Traffic that consists of people who would be likely to be interested in what you're offering.

Don't look for shortcuts since they'll likely get you in more trouble than anything else. Focus on building a good site with content that real people want and want to recommend and want to come back for. Make your site useful and entertaining and enjoyable, etc. While you're doing that spend some time learning the basics of seo and when you feel like you understand the basics work on making some changes to your site.

And of course ask questions here. There are little easy things to do we can help with.

Safety Guy
09-28-2009, 02:21 PM
I felt like I had to go sit in time-out...

Well folks, we've got ourselves on the radar under a couple of searches: We're ranking on pg 1 Google for:

1. 10 hour safety training st. louis
2. scaffold safety training st. louis
and
3. fall protection safety training st. louis

Got some major tweeking to do, but thank goodness for visibility. I was going crazy! You guys have been terrific with your advice and understanding. Thanks for not letting me go down the wrong avenues...
Drew

cbscreative
09-28-2009, 02:33 PM
You're welcome, Drew. Now, where do we send that bill again? :)

Safety Guy
09-28-2009, 02:40 PM
I think vangogh said he was pickin' up the slack...


So... do I just let the site sit for a while and relish in the glory of a live site or do I have to work frantically still?

billbenson
09-28-2009, 03:11 PM
On the fall protection curriculum, you might want to offer certificates that allow the major manufacturers equipment to be inspected for regular approvals (allowing it to remain in service). One other complication in the field is the ability to mix and match products within the industry. No manufacturer will certify their harness is compliant with other manufacturers lanyards SRL's etc. A lot of tower climbers may prefer a harness from one manufacturer but lanyards from another. No manufacturer will guarantee compliance mixing and matching manufacturers. So companies standardize on one manufacturer. If you could come up with a way for cross compliance, you could do well with the course. I kind of doubt that is possible, but just an idea.

vangogh
09-28-2009, 07:49 PM
Drew always keep working. Sure celebrate the successes, but never stop working to improve. One thing about rankings is they can be fickle. You can rank #1 one day and drop off the next for a variety of reasons.

Again do everything you can to make the site one that real people want to visit. And while you're doing that learn what you can about the basics of SEO asking questions as you have them.

Safety Guy
09-29-2009, 02:50 PM
You guys have been great! Now... let me get to work! Felt like I needed to take a breather...

Harold Mansfield
09-29-2009, 03:15 PM
You guys have been great! Now... let me get to work! Felt like I needed to take a breather...

Unfortunately when you DIY, it never really ends. You should always be making improvements, building backlinks, adding fresh content and updates when ever you can, working on the design, etc.

If you are lucky enough to rank for something, unless you are the only provider in this business, your competitors will soon be coming after that number one spot, so you have to continue what you have and make it better to keep it.

Safety Guy
10-01-2009, 02:38 PM
Alright... I have 5 pages to work with... So... is less more in this senario? Or should I keep cramming data and useful info into the pages.. Orrrrr... do I delete old info and replace with new every couple of weeks?

Safety Guy
10-01-2009, 02:44 PM
here is the site again... LINK (http://www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com)

Harold Mansfield
10-01-2009, 04:11 PM
Alright... I have 5 pages to work with... So... is less more in this senario? Or should I keep cramming data and useful info into the pages.. Orrrrr... do I delete old info and replace with new every couple of weeks?
Never delete information that is relevant, unless you are changing the entire site to a different subject matter.


here is the site again... LINK (http://www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com)

I still think that your landing page (the first page that people see when they arrive on the site) should be who you are and what you do. Point Blank.

You have a lot of information, but it needs to be organized a little better.
The 3 key things that people expect to see when they come to a website are :

A description of who you are, and what you do.
An "About" Page...A detailed description of your qualifications and certifications.
A "Contact" page...how, when and who do I get in touch with questions.
"Services"..here you can get into detail about what training and certifications you offer and how they would benefit potential clients. I would also have them listed in a drop down menu, rather than across the entire navigation menu.

..and they need to be plainly labeled. People will not search for the information and may not notice the contact links on the side bar because they are not used to that kind of navigation on a business site. What you have listed there, would be better served on a "contact", or "company bio" page.

After you get in the key navigation, and information points, and they are presented properly, then you can add additional information like articles, statistics, news updates, staff qualifications and bios...the sky is the limit. But it has to be organized in a way that is user friendly, or they will just go to the next site.

You have to look at your site as if a user has no idea who you are, or what you do (because they don't), and they have a problem that needs to be solved. Can you solve it ?

The advice you need on this project is 2 fold..layout and design, and it's hard to give you advice on both together since advice of one depends on knowledge of the other.

I highly recommend that you think about putting this on Wordpress. Without any design knowledge, it is the easiest way for you to get the look, and functionality that you need, and with a few suggestions of design options and plug ins, you can really have this done in a matter of days...100%, ready to rock and roll, and SEO friendly.
If you can use MS word, you will be able to post information using Word press.

I really think that you are working entirely too hard..harder than you need to for what you want to accomplish.

For instance I notice that you have an additional blog on blogger, which is a whole 'nother site to SEO. You don't have to do it like that anymore (Unless you want to and there is some benefit SEO-wise)..you can have the blog and the website on the same domain, same site, same platform. You already have hosting, there is no reason to send people away to get related information and that extra content will work in your favor in relationship to the SERP's on your main site. You are actually spreading your resources to thin that way.

Safety Guy
10-01-2009, 09:11 PM
That.... my friend is priceless info!
I should blog one of the 5 pages, change my navigation titles, and... I'll check out wordpress...
I saw one of our competitor "subsite" if that's what you call it and it was a Godaddy site. My ignorance made me think that a Godaddy site, alone, was going to earn points on google search reasults and provide me with a decent platform and templates...

These templates only allow page layouts with 3 areas to input data/text/pics. The only thing I can do with them is rearrange the order of the dialogue/text boxes.
I can put as much info into them as I want, but it is very limiting on who organized I can get it looking....right?

Harold Mansfield
10-02-2009, 12:33 AM
That.... my friend is priceless info!
I should blog one of the 5 pages, change my navigation titles, and... I'll check out wordpress...
I saw one of our competitor "subsite" if that's what you call it and it was a Godaddy site. My ignorance made me think that a Godaddy site, alone, was going to earn points on google search reasults and provide me with a decent platform and templates...

These templates only allow page layouts with 3 areas to input data/text/pics. The only thing I can do with them is rearrange the order of the dialogue/text boxes.
I can put as much info into them as I want, but it is very limiting on who organized I can get it looking....right?

I don't know much about what Go Daddy offers, but I checked out Yahoo's site templates one time and tried to build a site ( a few years ago) and that steered me away from cookie cutter templates..they are not very functional, you can't customize them, and they are not applicable to the needs of any real business.

If what you are using is similar to that, then I would have to say that you can do much better.

Go Daddy is not some kind of preferred web partner or anything..they are just a domain registrar. Well known because of their advertising, but not some kind of web Gods by no means.

If you look at the Wordpress website, odds are you still won't see what is possible by using it.
Check out this link of companies that use Wordpress (http://en.wordpress.com/notable-users/) to get a better feel of how versatile it is. Mind you, it's pretty much the industry standard in open source publishing platforms, and is used by millions of people and companies worldwide, but it will at least show you some notable companies and how they use it.

Some of the designs are custom coded, but many are not and some of the templates used for some of the largest companies on the list, I recognize and see where they made slight customizations. Some just use regular , plain old set ups. There are literally 1000's of possibilities.

I also know that would be a lot easier to help you (at least for me), if we can get you on a structured platform rather than free styling it the way you are. Understand, I am biased..I love Wordpress and love the unlimited possibilities, but in your particular case, it is absolutely the better of your options and it is something that you can administer into the future on your own.

Edited:
One more thing. You can't just single out a page of a static website (which is what you are working with) and call it a blog. It won't have the same functionality, or give you the same benefit as using a platform that is structured for blogging. Each of your blog entries needs it's own link structure and needs to be optimized individually. If you just drop articles on a page, you won't get any of that.
Look at your blogger blog..each entry is like an individual page and can be accessed separately of the main page..THAT is what makes it a blog. If you try and make a page a blog, the only way to access each entry will be to go to the main page, therfore, they will never be seen as individual entries by the search engines...defeating the whole purpose.

Safety Guy
10-02-2009, 03:05 PM
e9
My wife and I were married at Ceasar's...
When we get back there - I'll have to buy you a beer and a round of craps - or if you find yourself in St. Louis - we have the Cards, Rams, and Blues...

Harold Mansfield
10-02-2009, 04:58 PM
e9
My wife and I were married at Ceasar's...
When we get back there - I'll have to buy you a beer and a round of craps - or if you find yourself in St. Louis - we have the Cards, Rams, and Blues...

I may take you up on the beer, but as far as the sports go, only if they are playing the Lions, Red Wings or Tigers:)
Believe it or not, I never learned to play craps. After living in Vegas for so long, you get kind of burned out on gambling. It's different when you live and work here..at least it is for me..I still have friends that blow their paychecks every week like they are only here for a week end.

Safety Guy
10-05-2009, 03:41 PM
DETROIT????!!!!!!!!!! tsk tsk tsk

Safety Guy
10-07-2009, 03:41 PM
Alrighty....

What's the word on Square Space? This looks very user friendly....

vangogh
10-07-2009, 04:26 PM
I think WordPress is the better option. The $8/month option on Square Space doesn't give you your own domain. That's a killer for a business. You need your own domain. As soon as you move up to $14/month you'll get a better deal with your own hosting and installing WordPress.

Also since Square Space is a hosted solution and not something you download and install yourself, it's unlikely you'll ever have the same control.

I'm not trying to knock Square Space at all, but I do think WordPress is the better option.

Harold Mansfield
10-08-2009, 12:23 AM
Ditto that. I think Square Space blogs look pretty cool. They are especially nice for Fashion and Entertainment blogs/websites, but I also do not think that is the best option for what you are doing.

Wordpress is going to give you the most control, the largest community of developers and users to find help and get ideas, the easiest to learn and administer for a newbie, and with a few tips that you can get right here, the fastest way to get your site up and running without a lot of headache.

Outside of a premium design, a domain ($10) and hosting (which you already have) it is cheap to operate..you don't need any plug ins or functions that are going to cost you any money.

There are a lot of blogging platforms out there so let me try and save you a little time.

Blogger:Easy to use, you can use it with your own domain. Templates and designs are limited, and it doesn't have the functionality that you need for a professional or business blog.

Joomla : Nice platform, you can turn out some great sites on it. The learning curve is steeper than most, and from what I hear it has some kinks and bugs that you really need to know what you are doing to get past.

Typepad : Again, they charge for the good stuff and their business blog plan is $90 a month...I don't know what you get with that, I'm sure you can use a personal blog for business, but Typepad doesn't have a wide range of available designs

Drupal: big learning curve. I don't even want to learn it. Still has some bugs. Some people love it, but they are mostly developers that can troubleshoot their own problems.

There are probably another 25 open source (free) platforms out there....some are good for some things, not not too many are good for everything.
* Apache Roller (Java-based)
* b2evolution (PHP/MySQL)
* blosxom (Perl)
* Dotclear (PHP)
* DotNetNuke (VB.NET/ASP.NET)
* Frog CMS (PHP)
* Elgg (PHP)
* Habari (PHP)
* Jaws (PHP)
* Livejournal (Perl) (Also available, developer hosted)
* LifeType (PHP)
* Movable Type (Perl)
* Nucleus CMS (PHP)
* Serendipity (PHP)
* Slash (Perl)
* Subtext (C#/ASP.NET)
* Textpattern (PHP/MySQL)
* Thingamablog (Static web page, no need for CGI, PHP or MySQL)
* Typo (Ruby on Rails)


There is also another 5 or 6 proprietary platforms, meaning you have to purchase a license,
* Telligent Community
* ExpressionEngine
* Traction TeamPage
* Windows Live Writer
* IBM Lotus Connections
* IBM Lotus Quickr

and then there are a good 15 or so free hosted platforms, but I wouldn't recommend them for a business site

* Blogger
* Gandi
* Posterous
* LiveJournal
* Moxietype
* MySpace
* Open Diary
* Skyrock
* Tumblr
* TypePad
* Typo
* Vox
* Windows Live Spaces
* Wordpress.com
* Xanga
..and out of all of those possibilities and options (and I'm not sure that all of them are even in business any more) I am still saying to you that Wordpress (self hosted from Wordpress.org) is your best option with the most possibilities and the easiest for you to build a professional, business website with all the functions and capabilities that you need without having to "a la cart" each individual module , license anything, and help for Wordpress is all over the web.

It's the most popular platform on the web, and I can probably say safely "the industry standard", for a reason.

cbscreative
10-08-2009, 10:45 AM
Wow, Harold, great post! I also have to agree, WP with your own hosting is the way to go. Most, maybe even all, hosting companies support WP and usually have their Control Panels set up to make it easy.

Safety Guy
10-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Good God!
Okay, after I got done sounding out all the words in Harold's post...
I downloaded WP... so there!
BUT...Dudes..... when I opened up the configuration it looked something like this:

"$#@%&(@#$TFGSHD*G&W#%^(%YGHNGRFDTG*(W$U%UITHW$(TW#"

Mmhmmm... see see?

Whatever the heck that gopolygook means!

My directions after the download were something along the lines of... -"simply paste the code into the header before the body setion of the HTML but after the title area and in the margin next to ...blah blah blah..." WHAT? I ask myself... I only have hair on one side of my head now guys! I look like a circus freak.... and everyone in the office is laughing when they hear me talking to the computer...

Okay... sorry for the vent!

I dont feel quite technologically inclined enough to apply all that code. I have no idea where it all goes.The "5 minute install" aint happen in exactly 5 miutes for me... seriously... the Coding is freakin' me out.

billbenson
10-09-2009, 01:09 AM
Should look something like this: 4iti Resources (http://www.4iti.com/)

I'll send you the user / password so you can get into the admin. This is a site I installed wp and have done nothing with.

It sounds like you didn't unzip it before uploading it or something happened when you used ftp to upload it to your server.

If you didn't do this, download the current version of wp, unzip it, then upload it using an ftp program such as filezilla to your server. You should probably delete whatever is there now although if its a bad upload, it should get written over. Also, did you have enough disk space to upload the whole program. It takes 30 M or so, I don't remember, so it could have been corrupted during the upload.

I'll leave the site above and the pm active with that password for a few days so you can play with it. After that, I'll change the password and reupload it. So you can change anything you want for a couple of days, just be aware everything will be erased in a couple of days.

vangogh
10-09-2009, 01:36 AM
Whatever you downloaded it wasn't WordPress. There aren't any instructions to paste something into a header file in the installation.

If I'm not mistaken your site is hosted with GoDaddy. Are you on one of their website tonight packages? Or do you have direct access to the web server? Can you use FTP to access files on the server?

Step 1: Get on the regular GoDaddy hosting instead of any of the site building hosting packages

Step 2: Follow this link to the instructions for installing WordPress on GoDaddy hosting (http://help.godaddy.com/article/834). There's no downloading or pasting things into header files. You click a few things in the admin area of your hosting account and you'll have WordPress installed.

There will be times in the life of the site where you will be confronted with goobledygook. That's part of what the job entails. When it happens you can take the time to understand it so it's less gobbledy and less gook or you can hire someone to do the work. The third choice is to look or something else. Taking the time it takes to understand is my favorite option. It can be frustrating, but so much more rewarding and each thing you figure out makes the next thing that much easier to figure out.

Safety Guy
10-09-2009, 08:40 AM
Thank you both... Let me get to work on that stuff...

I do indeed have the Website Tonight 5 page package...

What is FTP?

vangogh
10-09-2009, 11:46 AM
FTP stands for file transfer protocol, whereas HTTP stands for hypertext transfer protocol. FTP is the way most people will transfer files to and from a web server as you might guess from the name. There's also a more secure version called SFTP, with the S standing for secure.

If you plan on working on websites two things to get are a good code editor and a good FTP program. You can find both free. Filezilla (http://filezilla-project.org/download.php) is a free open source FTP program. You sign into the server and then you're dragging files back and forth from your computer to the server very much like you drag files between folders on your computer.

Code editors can come down to a personal choice. I'm assuming you're using Windows. I used to a use a code editor called HTML Kit (http://www.htmlkit.com/), which also had built in FTP support. Here's a post with a variety of free and paid code editors (http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/05/07/35-useful-source-code-editors-reviewed/) for different operating systems.

Unfortunately you can't really use either with Website Tonight. Website Tonight gives you no direct access to the server and only lets you work on the site through their admin panel. You'll be able to build a much better website if you have GoDaddy switch you to their regular hosting, however you'll need to know how to FTP into a server and edit files in a code editor to then make changes to the site. You won't be able to install WordPress on Website Tonight (I don't think you can) and Website Tonight is costing 2-5 times as much as regular hosting will cost.

Your first step might be to download code editor and play around on your computer. Build some basic html pages and run them in your browser to get comfortable editing files directly. You can even download everything from the existing site and make changes locally (on your computer). Then once you're comfortable with that switch from Website Tonight to regular hosting (I think GoDaddy will move all the files for you, though the site will be down for a few hours while they do so).

Harold Mansfield
10-09-2009, 01:10 PM
Also, when you get your hosting and FTP set up (if you use Firefox, there is also a free one called Fire FTP (http://fireftp.mozdev.org/)), you will need to gain access.

Ask Go Daddy for your FTP log in, you will need :

Host Name: Which is usually something like "ftp.whatever.com"
User Name :
Password:

Your connection type, if asked is "ftp"

If Go Daddy hosting doesn't offer an automated Wordpress install,
You will also need to set up an SQL database (from the admin of your hosting account) to run Wordpress. You will need the database information to set up Wordpress and the 5 minute install (http://codex.wordpress.org/Installing_WordPress#Famous_5-Minute_Install)will walk you through it.

Make sure that you copy your information from your current website, so that you will have it to set up the Wordpress site.

Once you download WP, unzip the files, and you will be left with the folder named Wordpress with all the files in it that run the platform.

You will probably want to run it on the root, meaning you want your landing page to be yourdomain.com, instead of yourdomain.com/wordpress.

To do that, open the Wordpress folder so that all of the files are showing, go to Edit->Select All, so that all the files are highlighted, and drag and drop them onto your domain via your FTP.

If you just drop the Wordpress folder onto the domain, it will make the domain that the website is actually on yourdomain.com/wordpress, and that's not very convenient for your readers or your marketing.

If you have any problems, make use of Go Daddy customer service, they should be able to assist you since they host thousands of WordPress sites. They may even set it up for you...most host will with no problem. Make sure you tell them that you want it on the root domain, not a folder.

Keep us posted here, if you run into any snags, and to help get it set up.

Don't let the code freak you out, once you get it set up you probably won't need to edit any files again unless you want to make customizations...don't worry about that right now.

Once you get it set up and begin to see it take shape and see what you can do with it, you will be very happy that you took the plunge.

Safety Guy
10-09-2009, 02:19 PM
:eek:

Let me process all of that, see what I can do, and I'll get back to you guys...

I did get into the link that Bill sent me and WP seems kind of drab? I couldn't find differing thematic skins, buttons, uploading things was picky... Am I over thinking WP?

billbenson
10-09-2009, 02:50 PM
This is repeating a little bit of what was said above. You already have your domain. Get a regular hosting plan with Godaddy. Then see if godaddy will set it up for you. If not, pm me your user and password. I'll install it for you. That will give you something similar to the site I pm'd you. It will make it a little easier your first time around.

If you are going to stay at this, you will eventually need to learn things like setting up databases, FTP, etc. None of it is difficult, but there is a lot of little stuff you will need to figure out.

Harold Mansfield
10-09-2009, 03:49 PM
:eek:

Let me process all of that, see what I can do, and I'll get back to you guys...

I did get into the link that Bill sent me and WP seems kind of drab? I couldn't find differing thematic skins, buttons, uploading things was picky... Am I over thinking WP?

Yeah, you are over thinking it. You have to install the different skins/themes. It's pretty easy. First thing s would be to find one that you want to use.
There are hundreds of free ones that you can find easily just by searching Google, or the WP theme repository (http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/) and there are many theme designers that license premium themes to use as well...usually I prefer premium themes. They can range in price from $20 - $80 and up, depending on what you want.
Some popular theme designers are
Woo Themes (http://www.woothemes.com/), Solostream (http://www.solostream.com/), Brian Gardne (http://www.briangardner.com/themes)r, and many , many others. You can also find a nice selection at Theme Forest (http://themeforest.net/). This is just off of the top of my head,
There are 1000's of themes out there and tons of websites to get them from, including some of the members right here on the forum.

Choosing the right one takes a little time and should be considered carefully.

Once you decide on a theme, you can add more functionality and automation with various Plug ins for things like contact forms, (that are also easy to install) and most of those are free as well.
WordPress › WordPress Plugins (http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/)

Be careful, once you start getting the hang of things, it's really easy to over do it on the plugins.

Let's get you installed first. If you are having problems Bill has offered his help, you can certainly call me during regular business hours...or just have Go Daddy do it for you...that's what they are there for.

vangogh
10-09-2009, 06:47 PM
eborg mentioned this, but I'll mention it again. The link Bill pointed you to was showing the default theme that comes with WordPress. I believe he was showing it to you so you could see what WordPress looked like once installed successfully. That's not how WordPress has to look.

Click on the any of the links in my signature. That's WordPress. Click on any of the links in eborg's signature. That's WordPress too. First you have to install the main application and then you can install a theme (design) or create one of your own.

However before you do any of this, my first suggestion is still the same as my last post. Take some time to choose a code editor and make sure you have basic html down. Most of what we've been suggesting to you about working on the site and optimizing it for search engines is going to require you to do things on the server so you'll need to switch hosting at some point. But when you do you'll no longer be able to edit the site by logging into the hosting account and using the website tonight editor. Do before anything make sure you're comfortable editing html files.

billbenson
10-10-2009, 02:23 AM
VG / Eborg - he has the admin login for my site, so he can play with it.

Drew, you have a couple of routes you can go right now. One is getting your own WP site up and working. The other is play around on my site.

I uploaded a couple of different themes so you can see how to change the appearance. To change a theme, sign in to the admin panel with the user password I sent you. In the left hand column there is an "appearance" box. Under that is themes. click on themes.

Each theme is displayed including the currently active one. Under the nonactive themes is a link that says activate. Click on one and then go to the site home page 4iti.com and hit refresh. It will show you a page that is using the theme you just activated. Play around with it. You can't hurt anything.

After that, make a practice post or two. I made a category for you and a sample post. In the left column in admin, there is a heading "posts" Under that is edit or add post links. Click on those, make and edit some posts. You'll start getting the feel for it.

Play around on my site as you see fit. Just get a feel for how it works.

You really need to set up a site of your own. Download filezilla and the text editor that Vangogh mentioned. Change the hosting as recommended above. If godaddy doesn't do it for you, let us know and we'll help you get your site up and running.

There are also a bunch of basic tutorials on WP. You might want to search for a few.

Safety Guy
10-14-2009, 02:26 PM
WP press is only a blog... correct?

I will be playing around with wp that bill sent me for a while... try and get comortable with the program... then I'm determined to get this darn thing installed. If I cant... Bill, I'll take you up on that offer.

You guys rock! And, keep yourselves away from the H1N1 stuff...

vangogh
10-14-2009, 03:30 PM
WordPress is a content managements system. It evolved from another application that was mainly a blogging platform and has it's roots in blogging. According to Matt Mullenweg, the person who started WordPress it's currently used 50/50 as a blogging only application and as a full CMS. The CMS side is also growing.

WordPress can be used to power your entire site, especially with the addition of various plugins that you can add and customize for greater functionality.

Harold Mansfield
10-14-2009, 05:32 PM
WP press is only a blog... correct?

I will be playing around with wp that bill sent me for a while... try and get comortable with the program... then I'm determined to get this darn thing installed. If I cant... Bill, I'll take you up on that offer.


Once you have a regular hosting account set up, it's not that hard to install. Even as a novice, if you run into any problems, it won't take more than a few seconds to get it up the right way....you can't really mess it up unless you go out of your way to do so purposely.

It's full of fail safes and back ups.

Don't worry so much about all the admin functions, you can learn them one by one as you need them..don't overwhelm yourself, it is a ridiculously easy platform to operate and the more you learn as you go along, the more you will be able to do with it. You probably spent more time learning the user interface for Go Daddy's Website Tonight and it doesn't even do that much.

I know looking at something new can look like a combination of Chinese and Greek, but trust me, it will be a while before you need to open up any source files and even have to look at how it's constructed. Most people never do and their WP sites have been running for years.

It's built to be user friendly. You don't have to know the source code to get it up and running. You don't have to know PHP, or HTML to get it up and running,

Like I said before, once it's set up..if you can use MS Word, and click buttons, you can run your own WP site.

For the purpose that you need it, You could really have this up and running, with a custom design installed, content in place, logo, contact form and information, and the necessary SEO and function plug ins in a matter of hours...and that's if you did it yourself, with us answering basic questions for you, or..

Bill has offered his help. I have offered to do the whole thing for you and show you along they way.

I guarantee you that when you finally get this thing going you are going to say to yourself:

1. "That was pretty easy"
2. "Crap, I could have done this weeks ago"

We are not going to leave you hanging and there is probably more easy to follow WP help online than any other platform that I have ever seen.

If design and function is what is holding you back, tell me what you want/need and I will find it for you, odds are, I already have it.

Let's get this thing up and running :)

billbenson
10-14-2009, 07:53 PM
If you have your hosting squared away and want me to do the install, pm me the username and pass for your control panel. If you have anything on the site that is important, please do a backup before telling me to go ahead. If nothing is important, let me know so I can erase it and give you a clean site. You uploaded some stuff and it sounds like it didn't work. Best to get rid of all of that if there is no reason for it.



You guys rock! And, keep yourselves away from the H1N1 stuff...
Unless I can catch it from my computer I'm pretty safe.

Safety Guy
10-14-2009, 09:39 PM
Here's trial #1

Safety Guy
10-14-2009, 09:42 PM
heh heh oops...
About Construction Safety St. Louis, MO (http://constructionsafetystlouis.wordpress.com/about/)

Harold Mansfield
10-14-2009, 10:42 PM
heh heh oops...
About Construction Safety St. Louis, MO (http://constructionsafetystlouis.wordpress.com/about/)

That's the free hosted version, but it will at least get you a little familiar with some of the administration functions.
I'm sure you know that is NOT what you want to use for a professional site. You already have a blogger blog, and with any luck we will get that incorporated into your main site.

We want to get you going on your own domain. you already have it, and hosting...you are half way there.

Free hosted Wordpress blogs are www.wordpress.com. Limited control and access. You don't own it and not for professionals

Self hosted WP is www.wordpress.org. This is what you want.

vangogh
10-15-2009, 01:42 AM
What eborg said. That's a good first step toward using WordPress. You won't have as much control over things on the server and you'll be using the themes that comes with WordPress.com, but it will help you learn the admin side and make it easy to add new content. You'll also get to learn how to add themes and plugins and generally find your way around the WordPress backend.

The site already looks much better and more inviting than the old (I guess current) one. It's also free, which is hard to complain about.

I believe there's a way to have your WordPress.com site point to a domain so when someone types the domain they get redirected to your site on WordPres.com. Don't hold me to that, but I'm pretty sure it can be done. You'll want to do that when you're ready to have this site become the site.

At some point you probably will want to install WordPress on your own hosting account and as eborg said it's really not hard. Most hosts have the option to install it with a few clicks, but even if you choose to manually install it, it's relatively simple.

Safety Guy
10-18-2009, 12:47 PM
I have just found out that, although we have paid money for a domain name and hosting through GoDaddy and using their Website Tonight 5 page package... WP cannot be installed because it is a free website....
If this is the case, why was the company I work for charged $80.00 for a free website?

billbenson
10-18-2009, 02:01 PM
I just pm'd you some stuff that may help you out. I recommend godaddy for domain registration but never for hosting. They aren't a very good host for a number of reasons. I pay about $2 per month for hosting. I only have email support though. You shouldn't have to pay more than $5 per month for hosting. You should get a web host at first that has telephone technical support to get you through the site setup learning curve. Maybe someone here has a recommendation for a host with phone support.

Website tonight is a site builder. You are paying for the use of their site builder software and space on their server. You should not use this. You don't need the site builder and $80 for 5 pages is a lot. I'd call them up and ask them how much to upgrade to a regular site. Tell them you want to put wordpress on the site. They should do that for you and you won't loose your 80 dollars.

For a website you need from your host:
100M or more of disk space
access to your control panel. There are some different control panels out there, I like cpanel
php
mysql
telephone and email support
ftp access (which would generally be assumed by the above).

You have made a few bad decisions. Don't feel bad, we all do at times. Its part of the learning process. But you need to get decent hosting before you can move on.

cbscreative
10-18-2009, 03:16 PM
WP themselves publish a list of recommended hosting companies. At or near the top of that list is Bluehost (http://www.bluehost.com) which I have never had any issues with (many of my clients use them). Also, I'm sure vangogh will be happy to provide contact info for the hosting company we use for this forum. I'm not sure what they offer for your needs, I just know we went with them for the more robust capabilities they have to meet the demands we expected here.

Personally, I would bump bill's $5 up to about $7 or so. I'm sure there are good solutions in the $5 range, but the lower you go, the more it makes me wonder where they are cutting. Since I've seen some horrible security breaches occur with hosting companies, I tend to shop very carefully and go with someone who has a proven track record.

billbenson
10-18-2009, 04:11 PM
cb steve, do you have any hosts you like for reseller plans with whm? Its just for me, I don't resell. Really convenient if you have a bunch of sites though.

cbscreative
10-18-2009, 09:10 PM
cb steve, do you have any hosts you like for reseller plans with whm? Its just for me, I don't resell. Really convenient if you have a bunch of sites though.

I once considered doing something in the reseller arena, but ended up glad I didn't. Several years ago I had a client who signed on with a hosting company I thought was really good (excellent customer svc, fast response times, etc.). They had a reseller plan that was tempting. Whether it was growing pains or what, I don't know, but over time everything went really far south with them.

I've seen other companies I thought were OK slip up and fall apart, get hacked, and even get sold out to offshore entities with pathetic customer svc. I came to the conclusion the industry was too volitile and was glad I didn't lock in with any particular provider. I really can't see staking part of my reputation on something I can't control, so I have no plans on reselling hosting.

vangogh
10-18-2009, 09:29 PM
We're using Liquid Web (http://www.liquidweb.com/) for the forum. I have a VPS and so far I have only good things to say about the company. The server works and support has been above and beyond what I expected.

I don't think they have a reseller plan, but you do have access to WHM with the VPS or Dedicated servers. My guess is a VPS will work for what you're wanting from a reseller plan. You can set up as many sites as you want on the VPS. When we started only the forum was on the account. I've since moved a few other sites there.

billbenson
10-19-2009, 02:38 AM
I currently have a reseller plan with whm. 10.95 per month. I've used the company for years with a few down times but certainly not bad for the money. They may have plans that have redundant servers if that becomes an issue. I've had so few problems that I've had no reason to look elsewhere. I just like to keep some options open if something did happen.

cb Steve. I'm not interested in reselling. Its just very convenient to register a domain, change name servers, and add it to whm. A lot faster than dealing with a host for every change.

cbscreative
10-19-2009, 02:01 PM
Looks like we have some more techno babble to entertain Drew with when he returns again. :)

Harold Mansfield
10-19-2009, 04:27 PM
I have just found out that, although we have paid money for a domain name and hosting through GoDaddy and using their Website Tonight 5 page package... WP cannot be installed because it is a free website....
If this is the case, why was the company I work for charged $80.00 for a free website?
Just to reiterate. You can get a free blog at Wordpress.com (http://www.wordpress.com). It is the equivalent of a free blogger blog.

The publishing platform that you want to use is from Wordpress.org (http://wwww.wordpress.org). That is the platform for self publishers that are going to host their own websites. When webmasters speak of Wordpress, they are talking about the self hosted version that you download from Wordpress.org. Although they are both offered from "Wordpress" they are not the same. Do not concern yourself with building a website on Wordpress.com.

It's confusing at first, just remember, Wordpress.org is for self publishing, and self hosting.

I don't know what Go Daddy is talking about..sounds like you may be confusing the 2 different Wordpress options. Go Daddy hosts thousands of self hosted WP (.org) websites. They know what it is, and they know how to set it up for you.

They have a whole page dedicated to Wordpress hosting plans: (although you don't need special "wordpress" hosting to run Wordpress)
https://www.godaddy.com/hosting/wordpress-hosting.aspx?ci=15573, and I'll bet they have One Click Install.

No you cannot install anything on top of the Website Tonight Package, the hosting is probably set up to only run that platform which is probably why they told you it can't be done withwhat you have...you have to dump it all together and get a regular hosting account, which will be much cheaper anyway, so you can do what you want on it.

I wouldn't say the "website tonight" was a bad move..when you don't know, it looks like a decent option, but now that you know what your options are and what you can do..and cheaper...there is really no reason to keep paying for it, knowing now how limited it is.

Before I knew what I was doing (and never even heard of Wordpress or any other platform or design language), I signed up for a similar service with Yahoo (I think it was called Yahoo Business Services)...even registered my first 20 domains through them. Looking back, the website was horrible, but not knowing any better and it being my first outing I thought it was O.K., until I started looking around at other peoples websites.

Today I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy..but the fact that you dove in, proves that you want to do this and learn it, so it was positive step in the right direction that got you here to learn even more. To me that $80 was a well spent learning experience....So many people never take that first step and end up with a crappy website that a relatives teen aged kid designed in between bong hits and playing John Madden football (not that there's anything wrong with John Madden Football :)).
That's not going to happen to you.


cb steve, do you have any hosts you like for reseller plans with whm? Its just for me, I don't resell. Really convenient if you have a bunch of sites though.

I use Web Air (http://www.webair.com/). They came highly recommended to me and I have been very happy with them for the most part. Support is quick via email or phone 24/7 and I have never had any limitations on what I can host on my account.

vangogh
10-19-2009, 09:59 PM
With Website Tonight what you're paying for is the convenience of being able to use templates from GoDaddy to get a site built. I'm not sure why you think everything is free. You're still paying hosting. The free part is you build the site yourself with their system. It actually looks like the prices are reasonable and in line with shared hosting prices. I had thought it was priced much more.

GoDaddy does it as a way to sell hosting to people who don't know how to build websites.

The downside is you don't get any access to the server. If you're using website tonight then in all likelihood you don't know enough or want to know enough to work directly on the server. In that case it's probably dangerous for GoDaddy to give you access.

For many people that's perfectly fine, but not having access to the server limits some things you want to do with your site for business. For example you can't install WordPress. From GoDaddy's point of view if you wanted to install WordPress why would you sign up for Website Tonight. You sign up for website tonight to get the template from GoDaddy. In some respects it's doing the same thing as WordPress, making it easy for someone without the ability to build their own site to have a site.

WordPress offers a lot more though.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread or in another one. Call GoDaddy and have them move your site off website tonight and onto their regular hosting. Unfortunately the way they have things set up I think it means your site will be down a few hours. But before you're going to be able to do many of the things we suggest you're going to need to have direct access to your files on the server.

Harold Mansfield
10-20-2009, 12:15 PM
With Website Tonight what you're paying for is the convenience of being able to use templates from GoDaddy to get a site built. I'm not sure why you think everything is free. You're still paying hosting. The free part is you build the site yourself with their system. It actually looks like the prices are reasonable and in line with shared hosting prices. I had thought it was priced much more.

GoDaddy does it as a way to sell hosting to people who don't know how to build websites.

The downside is you don't get any access to the server. If you're using website tonight then in all likelihood you don't know enough or want to know enough to work directly on the server. In that case it's probably dangerous for GoDaddy to give you access.

For many people that's perfectly fine, but not having access to the server limits some things you want to do with your site for business. For example you can't install WordPress. From GoDaddy's point of view if you wanted to install WordPress why would you sign up for Website Tonight. You sign up for website tonight to get the template from GoDaddy. In some respects it's doing the same thing as WordPress, making it easy for someone without the ability to build their own site to have a site.

WordPress offers a lot more though.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread or in another one. Call GoDaddy and have them move your site off website tonight and onto their regular hosting. Unfortunately the way they have things set up I think it means your site will be down a few hours. But before you're going to be able to do many of the things we suggest you're going to need to have direct access to your files on the server.

I don't know this for sure, but I don't think that you can move that site to regular hosting. I've done similar site builders with "Yahoo", & "1 and 1" and you cannot move them, or take them with you if you change companies.

You will probably have to just copy and paste your content on a few notepad files to use later and dump the whole Website Tonight account and set up a regular hosting account.
I don't see why they can't make the change for you via customer service.

If not, I am sure that you can figure out how to set up a hosting account if you can figure out how to set up Website Tonight. One thing about Go Daddy is they are easy to use.

On the "Wordpress Hosting" page, you will probably be just fine with the economy plan for $4.99 a mo., or the Deluxe plan for $6.99 a mo. It really doesn't get any cheaper than that to host your own website.

Basically I am trying to make this as simple as possible...

1. Copy your content from your existing website.
2. Shut down your Website Tonight account.
3. Forget about it.

(Just to make it easy)

4. Follow that link and open a Economy, or Deluxe WP hosting account through Go Daddy.
5. You are done.

Your account will come with log in credentials(FTP, User Name, Password) to access your server so that you can place files on it...like the ones that run Wordpress, and the various extensions, plug ins, and designs.

vangogh
10-20-2009, 03:23 PM
I think you can because I did it for a client. They moved everything without problem other than the site being down temporarily while they made the switch. It's not like a Yahoo store or anything. There are real files sitting on a server that get moved. You just don't have access to them except through the admin control panel. it wasn't like a store though that's tied to a specific platform. The platform in this case is a WYSIWYG editor.

Call GoDaddy first and ask them if they can move the site to a regular hosting account. If they can let them. If eborg is right and they can't then follow what he suggested above.

I'm pretty sure they can move the site, but it's been a couple of years since I went through that process with them and it's possible they've changed things or I'm not remembering exactly how it went. I was building a new site for the client at the time and maybe we just had them switch the hosting itself and then I uploaded the new site.

Safety Guy
10-20-2009, 03:27 PM
Hey guys.... gimme a sec. over here in Bummerland

I appreciate the lessons.

e9 - thanks for the pick-me-up...

I'll get back to you guys in a bit... calling GoDaddy

Safety Guy
10-21-2009, 11:07 AM
Called 'em....

The switch can be made from WT to WP.

They said they'd give me a ".info" domain to keep the WT site up and running and then when I've built the WP site the ".com" would take over.

The ".com" domain would be inactive for at least 24hrs. : $57.00 bucks for the year.

Now:
I am wanting to create a site for the Chicago area that is showing up on google searches just as well as the St. Louis site has been, but this time using the WP platform and just keep the WT for the St. Louis area; at least for the time being...

Mark, the owner, has told me to go for it, but before I do anything -

e9?
Vangogh?
Bill?
anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

vangogh
10-21-2009, 11:15 AM
First thing to know is that switching a site from .com to .info is essentially like starting over again with that site. As far as search engines are concerned those are two completely different sites. The .info will need to be found again, crawled again, and indexed again. If you do have any links pointing into the site they will no longer be pointing into the site. They'll still be pointing to the .com domain.

If you plan on leaving the St. Louis site up on website tonight I don't really follow why you'd change the .com extension to .info. In that case why not just leave it as it is and set up a new account for the Chicago site?

Maybe I'm not entirely following what you're thinking of doing. In general you don't want to change domains or URLs for individual pages unless you have a good reason. There are good reasons, but changing where the site is hosted isn't one of them.

Am I misunderstanding what you're doing? I have a feeling I am.

Harold Mansfield
10-21-2009, 12:47 PM
Called 'em....

The switch can be made from WT to WP.

They said they'd give me a ".info" domain to keep the WT site up and running and then when I've built the WP site the ".com" would take over.

The ".com" domain would be inactive for at least 24hrs. : $57.00 bucks for the year.

Are they taking your domain away from ? OR was it a package deal that the domain registration was included with the WT package ?

Sounds like the can't move the site and it has to remain hosted where it is, but they are making the (.com) domain available for you to build on and giving you a ".info" just to hold the old site on it's hosting until you are done.



Now:
I am wanting to create a site for the Chicago area that is showing up on google searches just as well as the St. Louis site has been, but this time using the WP platform and just keep the WT for the St. Louis area; at least for the time being...

Mark, the owner, has told me to go for it, but before I do anything -

e9?
Vangogh?
Bill?
anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Showing up on SERP's is a result of SEO. That is a separate issue (for our purposes here right now) than getting the site built. Let's get the site built first. We will walk you through some SEO plug ins and set up as we go along.

So I assume that you have a log in and password for access to your hosting account ?
Or you have some sort of "FTP" access ?

Look around your control panel and see if these things jump out at you, or look at your conformation email and see what info is on there.

billbenson
10-21-2009, 01:40 PM
Ya, if you can clarify this. Your website tonight is on someDomain.com. They will let you develop the wp site on SomeDomain.info. Then, when you are done with the initial development on the .info site, they will move the .info site to the .com site where your current site is sitting.

If what I described is accurate, then I'd say go ahead with it. It does present some SEO issues as Vangogh suggested. We can help you minimize those though.

If you haven't done it already, download Filezilla. If you are using windows get FileZilla_3.2.8.1_win32-setup.exe Show file details (recommended) at this link: FileZilla - Client Download (http://filezilla-project.org/download.php). You are going to need this shortly.


@VG - I'd say in this situation put a no index no follow in, hopefully not to index the site under construction.

@Eborg, situations like this make developing locally nice, because it doesn't get crawled until you upload it.

Safety Guy
10-21-2009, 02:14 PM
Why yes... e9 and Bill... you have both hit the nail on the head, and vngo, you are validating my thoughts exactly.

The poor guy at GoDaddy had to explain that senario to me like 10001110101 times before I finally understood him.

Therfore - I had decided to just keep the WT site running, because it's been crawled and indexed.... whatever that means (at least the indexed part.)

BUT - It looks like you guys are in favor of me setting up another account/site very similar to the St. Louis site - except using the WP platform, with a new domain name, and localizing the site to Chicago... am I right?

Safety Guy
10-21-2009, 02:20 PM
I have down loaded FileZilla...

Harold Mansfield
10-21-2009, 03:01 PM
Therfore - I had decided to just keep the WT site running, because it's been crawled and indexed.... whatever that means (at least the indexed part.)

Yes that makes sense, but I honestly don't see where you will be hurt too much in the long run, because you haven't really done any SEO anyway. So what ever you have is mostly to the home page, and can be easily regained and done even better in a short amount of time on WP.



BUT - It looks like you guys are in favor of me setting up another account/site very similar to the St. Louis site - except using the WP platform, with a new domain name, and localizing the site to Chicago... am I right?

I am in favor of you using WP for both sites, I am not crazy about the St. Louis set up at all, but one step at a time.
Just curious, has the St Louis site generated any emails or phone calls ?

vangogh
10-21-2009, 03:22 PM
I was thinking the same thing as eborg. You haven't really done any SEO so if you had to start over it's no big deal. I just wanted you to be aware of what might happen when you change domain names.

Here's what I would do:

You currently have www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com on website tonight. Have GoDaddy move the site to a hosting account that isn't website tonight. If they can move the site for you let them. Yes it will be down for a time (it probably won't be 24 hours though). Yes, you'd rather the site be up, but if it were making so much money on any given day this thread wouldn't exist. Better to move the site now than later when it might be making more money.

If GoDaddy can't move the site for you (ie. they can switch the account, but not move the files) then make a backup of the site so you have all the pages, have GoDaddy switch the account, and then upload the backup you made to the new hosting account. If you're paying attention to when the hosting changes it shouldn't take much extra time to get the site live again.

I would build any and all sites you have on WordPress, because it's easy to use, and can be made very search friendly. It does most search related things well out of the box and can be tweaked relatively easy to do the rest.

As far as building a new site for Chicago I'm not sure that's necessary. My preference is usually to go with one bigger site and have St. Louis and Chicago on the same site. If your plan is to build duplicate sites for every city and basically just change the city name on each site, it's kind of spammy. You're really just building one site and trying to trick the engines into returning the right one for each city. I'd sooner have everything on one domain and make each section on that domain (St. Louis, Chicago, etc) be unique and not a rehash of the other sections.

Safety Guy
10-21-2009, 03:41 PM
Just curious, has the St Louis site generated any emails or phone calls ?

No...:rolleyes:



So:
First, I'm not interested in spamming on a national level - appreciate the thought there...

I thought that because Iwe are beining found in google searches for things like:
scaffold safety training, fall protection safety training, ... that the SEO's were in place.

I'm good with managing one site if that is the best way to go. I'm kinda just sick of the GoDaddy thing right now...

Safety Guy
10-21-2009, 03:43 PM
e9 - Wait... well... maybe a phone call or two... no real way of tracking if the guys in the office dont ask how the caller, or whomever, heard about us.

vangogh
10-21-2009, 04:22 PM
The GoDaddy thing is easily fixed.

1. Will GoDaddy change the hosting account so that the domain www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com is no longer associated with their website tonight hosting and instead is on regular hosting?

2. In moving the domain to their non-website tonight hosting will they move the site files to the new hosting account?

The first goal is to have www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com set up exactly as is on non-website tonight hosting.

I know the domain can be moved, because you can move any domain you own to any hosting account you want. The only potential issue is whether or not GoDaddy will move the existing site files or not. If they will move them then let them.

If they can't move the site files then first make a backup of everything (html files and images and anything else you might have on the site) then have GoDaddy switch the hosting account and once the domain is on the new account rebuild the site, by uploading the files to the new hosting account.

I realize this is all probably new to you, but nothing I'm describing above is difficult or time consuming and we can walk you through it one step at a time.

In fact let's start right now with the backup. Even if you don't move anything it's good to have a backup. Website tonight doesn't give you access to the server so you won't be able to use Filezilla to get the files. You can however get them through your browser.

Go to the site and visit every page. I think you said there are 5 pages. On each page view the source code for the page. There should be a menu option in your browser to view source. Copy everything that shows up in the source file into a something like notepad and save it using the filename that shows in the URL for the page.

For example your home page is at:

https://www.10houroshatrainingmissouri.com/safety_training_st.php

so save the file as safety_training_st.php

You can likely also save the source file simply by choosing save as in your browser.

Also save every image on ever page and places them in an images folder with the exact names they currently have. You don't have a lot of images on the site so just right click on each and choose save as or save image as. The tricky ones will be the background image behind the site since it probably won't give you the save option when you right click. See if there's an option to view the background image first and then save it by right clicking. If you can't figure out how to save it let me know and I'll save it for you.

When you have everything saved on your computer it should all be in one folder. I'll call it site, but you can name it anything you want. Inside the site folder should be all the files you've saved from the source code and another folder called images that contains all the images you've saved.

Once you've saved everything we can move to the next step which will be to change the hosting.

Harold Mansfield
10-21-2009, 04:49 PM
No...:rolleyes:



So:
First, I'm not interested in spamming on a national level - appreciate the thought there...

It's not spamming. It's targeting your keywords. Trust me, you don't have to worry about spamming anyone on a national level. Target the terms that match the information that you will be providing on the site.



I thought that because I we are beining found in google searches for things like:
scaffold safety training, fall protection safety training, ... that the SEO's were in place.

I'm good with managing one site if that is the best way to go. I'm kinda just sick of the GoDaddy thing right now...
Well we are kind of getting ahead of ourselves but real quick:

It's easy to rank for terms that aren't being searched for, or have low search volume with minimal effort. I don't know your industry, but after looking around for a minute or 2, I see that "10 hour Osha safety Training" is somewhat competitive, and you haven't even broken into the game yet. Out of the terms you listed, you are not ranking that well..not even on the first 3 pages for the exact search of the keywords in your domain...this site is:
osha10hourtrainingmissouri.com, and that's not you. Good thing is, their website is not that good and it is also built on a site builder, so , with a little training and suggestion, you can beat them, and at least place for your own domain.

This is getting to far ahead for now, but I just wanted to explain where you are at the moment and that you will not be losing any ground..in the short run you will gain, and in the long run, you can win...at least get on the first page for that term.

You have to remember that if you are using Google, it will return personalized results based on what you frequent the most...so if you are searching your own terms and clicking on your own site, every time you search it will come up first in the SERPS FOR YOU. Not for everyone else. The best way to get a somewhat accurate reading is to make sure that you are not signed into the browser.


e9 - Wait... well... maybe a phone call or two... no real way of tracking if the guys in the office dont ask how the caller, or whomever, heard about us.
We'll get to that. A contact form on the site, set up under a dedicated email address is a good way to track results, as well as, a dedicated phone line. Other than that..just asking people "How did you hear about us?" is good enough as well.

First and fore most is to set up your FTP access, get WP installed, and pick a design.

http://filezilla-project.org/images/screenshots/fz3_win_sitemanager.png

Lets get this thing set up. Get the information from your hosting account to set up your Filezilla and so we can get these fields set up and you can have access to your server.

One step at a time, if you try and digest too many unrelated things at once, your head will explode. It all falls into place...one step at a time.

Harold Mansfield
10-21-2009, 05:18 PM
Also, if you plan on targeting multiple markets (or even more than one), there is no need to open multiple sites...you can do it all for one site and get the SERP love.

Does this training give you any kind of certification ? Is there certification involved when you complete the course ?

The reason i am asking is, you need to zero in on a domain that will give you the most bang for your buck..keywords, but not necessarily location specific...you can then either set up separate pages, for each market and optimize for each market separately.
Example: you will have a domain that looks like this (www). xxxxxxx xxxx.com/missouri, or (www).xxxxxx xxxx.com/chicago

Or...you can set up separate mini sites (using WP) on subdomains of the main keyword rich domain, so you will get search engine friendly domains like:

(www),chicago.xxxxxxxx..com, or (www).missouri.xxxxxxxxxxx.com

I don't want to give you too much to digest, but I thought it important to mention so that you don't go out a register a bunch of domains that are targeting specific areas, and will require you to completely optimize separate websites...which will make your head explode and spread your resources too thin.

I checked to see what is available, cross referenced with key terms that you need to target and see a couple available that would serve you well across the board no matter what market you want to target.

Safety Guy
10-21-2009, 09:36 PM
I think we have a server at the office... can I do anything with that? dont think it's real big or powerful.... if the even come that way...

Should I call GoDaddy and have them just set me up on a WP shared serving thing...?

Those are some massive posts guys... forgive me for being slow on this...
I teach band until the afternoon and then make it to the office only for a few hours.

By the way... I would love to "take down" that osha10hour... site .... Oooooo that guy!

vangogh
10-21-2009, 10:16 PM
I'd say the first thing to do is make a backup of your site. That way no matter what happens after we know we can get the site back live. It's a just in case thing.

Harold Mansfield
10-21-2009, 10:19 PM
I think we have a server at the office... can I do anything with that? dont think it's real big or powerful.... if the even come that way...

Should I call GoDaddy and have them just set me up on a WP shared serving thing...?



I thought you had already done that.

No, you can't do anything with that server unless you have someone there that knows what they are doing and you have a fast dedicated broadband account.
It's not worth the headache.

Stay focused ! You are bouncing all over the place and you haven't even taken the first step yet.
Get a hosting account ! $5.99 a month for the deluxe package. That's a bag of Cheetos and a couple of Mt. Dews plus tax, or one Venti Mocha Latte at Starbucks.

billbenson
10-22-2009, 01:26 AM
Don't go messing with the server at work. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

You can set your pc up as a web server pretty easily, but that's down the road a ways as well.

A shared hosting plan with godaddy should be just fine. Have them install wp for you on it if you can.

eborg has pretty much laid out a good plan for you.

Safety Guy
10-22-2009, 09:06 AM
I didn't want to set anything up with GD again until I discussed with you guys.

I'll get a WP platform today when I get into the office, I'll make a copy of the WT site, and then I'll let you guys know when we're there.

Safety Guy
10-22-2009, 02:32 PM
Browser Update Page (http://www.godaddy.com/hosting/wordpress-hosting.aspx?ci=15005)

Which plan?
They were pushing the economy for $57.00 for the year. Will this be sufficient?
Domain ideas?

Safety Guy
10-22-2009, 02:51 PM
The company's name is: National Safety Consulting
They offer: Custom Safety Programs, Safety Manpower (staffing), Safety Training, Manuals, and more

The Official site is: www.nationalsafetyconsulting.com (http://www.nationalsafetyconsulting.com)
There is a huge organization called National Safety Council - They're the Grandaddy.

How about this for the Domain: nationalsafetyclass.com or nationalsafetyclasses.com

I am thinking staying wit hthe whole "NSC" thing

billbenson
10-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Economy plan should be fine. You can always upgrade, but you probably never will need to.

vangogh
10-22-2009, 06:15 PM
You should be fine with the economy plan. The requirements for WordPress are PHP and MySQL. Ideally you'd be on an Apache server since it'll make a few things easier, but any type of server is fine as long as you have PHP and MySQL. You probably won't need much space or bandwidth at first.

Both of those domain names seem like good choices for a site on safety classes. And given how inexpensive domains are you might as well grab them right away.

Harold Mansfield
10-24-2009, 02:43 PM
The Official site is: www.nationalsafetyconsulting.com (http://www.nationalsafetyconsulting.com)


It's also apparent that your company already has hosting somewhere since this site is live, can't you use your already existing hosting account, or does that cause to much confusion and the new site has to be completely separate?

Safety Guy
10-27-2009, 03:23 PM
WP intsalled.... yeah yeah I know... it's about time...
I had a hard time asking the owners for more money to start another project...

The domain is nationalsafetyclasses.com - I chose this to stay with the "NSC" theme.

So now what do you want me to do? I started learning basic Hyper Text Markup Language... eh? EH? That's right!

vangogh
10-27-2009, 03:37 PM
Yep learning html will be good. I'd also suggest looking into css as well. The good thing with WordPress is you don't need to know either in order to build your site. You'll be able to find a free theme or buy a commercial one and have a decent design and you'll also be able to install free and paid plugins if you need more functionality.

A good place to learn about WordPress is through the WordPress Codex (http://codex.wordpress.org/Main_Page), which is the basic documentation for using and working with WordPress.

Also here's a good tutorial on seo for WordPress (http://yoast.com/articles/wordpress-seo/) to help you configure a few things.

And of course you can asking questions here (probably in a new thread) when you have them. A few of us here do a lot of work with WordPress so we can likely help.

Harold Mansfield
10-27-2009, 07:08 PM
WP intsalled.... yeah yeah I know... it's about time...
I had a hard time asking the owners for more money to start another project...

The domain is nationalsafetyclasses.com - I chose this to stay with the "NSC" theme.

So now what do you want me to do? I started learning basic Hyper Text Markup Language... eh? EH? That's right!

Wordpress installed ? Yay!
First of all, "National Safety Classes" is a great domain. You were lucky to get it seeing how competitive this niche seems to be getting.

I can assume that you have FTP access and now know what the Wordpress files look like ?

The first thing that you want to do is make yourself familiar with the folders that you will need to install plug ins, and themes (designs).

With FTP access, installing files is basically drag and drop to the appropriate folders, but they must be in the right folders or they will not work properly.

Remember that every file that you download needs to be unzipped before it is installed.

Plug ins:
Plug ins give WP different functionalities such as Contact forms, Photo Galleries, SEO functions, and so on. Most plug ins are open source or free to use. Be careful not to over do it on plug ins, there are literally thousands of them, and a small number that are obsolete or are not supported anymore. I will give you a few key ones to get you started.

Plug ins need to be installed in the plug ins directory. It should look like this (via your FTP): yourdomain.com/wp-content/plugins. This is where you are going to drop/install your new (unzipped) plug ins folders.

To make sure that you have the right one, already installed plug ins in that folder are Askimet (protection against comment spam) and Hello Dolly (doesn't really do anything, just puts up quotes from the song in your dashboard. You don't need it)

Once you have uploaded a plug in, into the plug ins directory, you will need to go to your Dashboard->Plug ins and activate the plug in. 99% of the time it will work without a hitch. After that, some plug ins have settings that need to be customized to suit your needs.

Suggested Plug ins right now:

All in One SEO Pack (http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/all-in-one-seo-pack/). This plug in will allow you to set your Meta Description, Title, and other important SEO settings.

You can find most plug ins at WordPress › WordPress Plugins (http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/)

But, the first and foremost thing that you want to do is probably choose your theme/design.
You can find hundreds of them both free and premium (paid) just by searching "Wordpress Themes".

Themes are installed in the Themes Folder: yourdomain.com/wp-content/themes

Once you have found one that you want to use (make sure that is compatible with the latest version of WP, or at least that it doesn't look like it was created 3 years ago and never updated), drop/install it in your themes folder and then go to your Dashboard->Appearance->Themes and if all the files installed correctly it will be there. You can click on it to activate it.

Some themes need to be set up to function properly, meaning you need to set it up, categories, featured images and such. If any such additional set up options are needed, it will be with the "Read Me" file, included with the theme. Most are easy to follow.

That should get you going for now.

Safety Guy
10-27-2009, 08:11 PM
I'm using 2.5.8 I think is what it's called...
e9... that post was overwhelming... I'll pick my theme and try to find the folder you listed.
I'm excited.
I'm not ready for plugins and stuff... still not familiar with ftp functionalities... but I'll try and figure that out after the theme...

Harold Mansfield
10-27-2009, 09:05 PM
I'm using 2.5.8 I think is what it's called...
e9... that post was overwhelming... I'll pick my theme and try to find the folder you listed.
I'm excited.
I'm not ready for plugins and stuff... still not familiar with ftp functionalities... but I'll try and figure that out after the theme...

Figure out the FTP first. You can't do anything else without it. Your FTP is how you see and access/add to the files that are on your domain, ie: Wordpress.

Think of it like opening the hood of your car to get to the engine. You can buy all the spark plugs and air filters that you want, but until you know how to pop the hood, they will do you no good.

My offer still stands to help you and get you on your way, and if you have some time during business hours, I can talk you through accessing your files via FTP.

Oh by the way !!
I see that WP has a new function to upload themes from the dashboard under Appearance->Install New Themes. You can download the themes to your computer, unzip them and upload them there.

I also see that you can do the same with plug ins. Plug Ins->Add New

That may get you started , but you should still learn how to access the files that sit on your domain via FTP at some point because many themes and plug ins require you to CMOD (set public/private access) certain files to get them to work properly.

Note: I haven't used these new functions yet, but they look pretty straight forward.

billbenson
10-27-2009, 09:27 PM
Congrats! Now you have one installed. The next thing to do is figure out the admin panel. Don't worry about themes yet.

Here is a good place to get started First Steps With WordPress WordPress Codex (http://codex.wordpress.org/First_Steps_With_WordPress)

If you get messages like Forbidden or something similar, let us know.

Otherwise, its time to just play with the admin panel When you are comfortable with that, install other themes. Wait for that though. Just get familiar on how to set up a category and make a post for now.

vangogh
10-27-2009, 10:27 PM
I forget whether or not it's been recommended somewhere in this thread already so I'll mention it now. Filezilla (http://filezilla-project.org/download.php) is a good FTP program and it's also free. You basically log into the server and then it's like dragging files back and forth. Not much different than Windows Explorer.

I use a code editor that also has FTP built in. A free one for Windows is HTML Kit (http://www.htmlkit.com/download/) though many people choose to have a code editor just edit the code and then have a separate program for FTP.

Both of the previous links will take you straight to the download pages for each program.