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View Full Version : If it's your LAST thousand bucks... I don't want it



Dan Furman
09-03-2009, 11:48 AM
I should know better... I really should.

One of the plusses of my business is I deal with small entrepreneurs. But it's also one of the minuses.

Red flags go up for me when someone is not just on a budget, but really has to stretch to hire me. Things like buyer's remorse come into play then, and also, the expectations are sometimes unrealistic. Like "I'm spending my last money in the whole world on this writing - it had better blow my socks off!! Because if it doesn't, I'm getting my money back".

This just happened to me - I dealt with a lady who obviously had a hard time coming up w/ my fee. I felt odd about the whole thing, because she also clearly didn't understand the process of getting a website (wanted to know how I got links to work, to which I replied "my 'links' are underlined blue text - it's your web person's job to make them work".

I should have walked away, because it just didn't feel right.

Well, she hated what I did for her. I'm not sure what she was expecting, but it definitely wasn't what I delivered. She called my work trite, puffery, and basically said it does not represent professional journalism. She demanded I refund her deposit of $500, that she felt I had no right taking in the first place, etc etc. I wanted to explain "This is copywriting - I'm writing to make people click/call - that's it. I don't do what you'd call journalism", but you know, $500 isn't worth it for me to argue with anyone. I quietly refunded her money and ate the time I spent on it. It happens sooo infrequently that this is no biggie. My reputation as someone who does excellent work that clients like is more important to me than $500

But in thinking about it, I do think the "money" factored into things, at least to some degree, because she mentioned the price/great amount she was paying. Now, I don't want to sound snobbish or anything, but if $1,000 is a great amount of money to you, something that you really, really have to plan for budget-wise, then hiring a copywriter (or anyone) isn't what you should be doing. I just think it creates too many problems, and adds an unecessary piece to the puzzle.

But in the end, the blame is mine. And I'll once again remind myself that if I feel funny about a job, I shouldn't take it.

Harold Mansfield
09-03-2009, 12:05 PM
Yeah, there is no question if you are down to your last $1k, a professional copywriter (no offense Dan) is a luxury. Especially if there are other things that are more pressing that you can't do any part of for yourself, like coding or design.

But unfortunately we all know that "non-web" people expect results as quick as going to drive through window because that's the way it seems when they see it in T.V., and don't understand that it's a combined effort of many different things that equal results.

You can't always cherry pick and just take the clients that "get it", but I think it's cool that you refunded her money..from the way it sounds, I think you almost expected to from the very beginning.

Sometimes, you just get that feeling from people right up front...they almost telegraph "I'm not going to be happy with anything you do because I really don't want to do this. I'm hoping for a miracle that will open the heavens and make everything an instant success".

KristineS
09-03-2009, 01:23 PM
I've had that experience too Dan and it's rotten. I think people do have an unrealistic expectation of what a copywriter or a web designer can do for them. I also think some people have no concept of how to budget and manage their funds. It's sad really, especially since there are classes and resources to help you learn how to do that sort of thing.

In this case, I think you did the right thing. It wasn't worth fighting over, and hopefully it will be a good reminder to follow your instincts when another situation like this crops up.

KarenB
09-03-2009, 01:25 PM
Wow, Dan. That sucks. I'm sorry this happened to you.

Trusting your gut and getting your ideal client are tough things to do, especially as a freelance copywriter.

When I read Steve Slaunwhite's Pricing Your Writing Services, I was shocked at how high the industry standard was for copywriting. I also found that there were a lot of folks in the same boat as you with regard to pricing accordingly.

I was further amazed with Steve's program "Fast Track to Great Clients".

What I learned was that freelancers had to find their ideal prospect pool, knowing that whatever pool they chose, they would continue to get similar clients. One client tells two friends and so on.

I'm not sure where you picked up this client, but perhaps it might be worthwhile to shift your focus from small entrepreneurs to bigger entrepreneurs and bigger small businesses. (Talk about an oxymoron, huh?)

Perhaps it is time to shift your marketing focus toward businesses that can afford your copywriting services.

A great blog to check out is The Wealthy Freelancer (http://www.thewealthyfreelancer.com). This might also give you some support and ideas as to how not to get burned anymore. If I were in your shoes, I would have done the same thing as you did and also reexamined whether this was my best target market to begin with.

Karen

vangogh
09-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Sorry to hear about your experience Dan. I've come to trust my instincts more when it comes to potential problem clients, but it's not always easy. Maybe in the future you'll have to be more specific about certain things and keep the initial conversation going a little longer without a commitment so either you or the client can see sooner it won't work out.

I'm not sure I would have given back the deposit, though I understand why you did. In my view you're not going to see any change in what the client says by giving back the deposit. She's not likely to start saying good things or say worse things because you kept the money. Odds are she's going to be the same either way and most likely the people she might have recommended you to would be similar to her and end up being another problem client.

I do understand why you gave the money back though.

Spider
09-03-2009, 05:52 PM
Kudos, Dan. You did the right thing.

A bit more client-education up front might have prevented it, but you might have talked yourself out of a job. And just because she seemed to lack the knowledge, she might just as easily have been very grateful for the help and very impressed with the results.

It probably was puffery - isn't all sales copy! She could have said, "It amazes me how people buy because of puffery like this, but if they do, that's what I need - thank you very much!"

OTOH, we each know what we like ourselves and want our websites to reflect our own persona, to some extent. Could you have saved the sale by offering to tone it down a bit, Dan? - make it more congruent with the person she wants to portray? Different target markets must be approached differently - as in, you wouldn't try to appeal to a truckdriver with the same copy you use to sell to rich and sedate old ladies. Is it possible that's all she wanted and took a more beligerant approach?

Dan Furman
09-03-2009, 07:25 PM
Is it possible that's all she wanted and took a more beligerant approach?

Nah, she made it very clear she just wanted her money back. This is why I feel the money was at least part of the issue.

There was going to be no editing, no "ok, let's get this to what you want" or "let me explain why I did it like I did". None of that.

huggytree
09-03-2009, 09:48 PM
The cheapest customers are always the worst customers

Id have a hard time giving all the money back...i would have kept some to atleast cover some of my time..

if your in business and you dont have $1k laying around you dont belong in business...i would even go as far as anything less than $10k laying around your business is in trouble.

You may want to change something in your 'qualifing' questions to address this problem

Dan Furman
09-03-2009, 11:08 PM
The cheapest customers are always the worst customers

Id have a hard time giving all the money back...i would have kept some to atleast cover some of my time..

if your in business and you dont have $1k laying around you dont belong in business...i would even go as far as anything less than $10k laying around your business is in trouble.

You may want to change something in your 'qualifing' questions to address this problem

Nah, this isn't a problem - this is really an isolated incident. I seriously can't recall the last time something like this happened - maybe three or four years (and three or four hundred clients) ago? I actually qualify pretty well, and also make sure I get great information as to what they want.

I'm more or less posting to vent, and to remind myself (and others) that if you don't feel right about it in the beginning, maybe you shouldn't do it. But no, I don't want to make it seem like this is an ongoing problem, because it isn't

cbscreative
09-03-2009, 11:27 PM
If money was that tight, I'm surprised she came up with the deposit. Usually those type of clients look for a cheaper service provider, which I always figure is fine to avoid having a situation like you just had.

Steve B
09-04-2009, 03:45 AM
"i would even go as far as anything less than $10k laying around your business is in trouble."

Man, I'm in BIG trouble!

Patrysha
09-04-2009, 08:55 AM
Me too, Steve...me too...

janiels
09-04-2009, 10:18 AM
that sucks big time, eating your time and energy, sometimes we should really follow our instincts and know when to reject clients like that one..

cocoy
09-04-2009, 10:25 AM
Do most potential customers ask for samples or ask to see actual web pages you've written?

cocoy
09-04-2009, 10:42 AM
Me too, Steve...me too...

I think it depends on the type of business. If you have a lot of up front expenses to start a job, like huggytree, then having several thousand is good to have. He has to spend a lot of money on the job before being paid.
He has to buy fixtures, piping, and other supplies. Repairs for tools maintenance for the truck, etc...

Steve B
09-04-2009, 12:10 PM
This was a good thread Dan.

In my case I've had good experiences with people that I could tell had to scrape together the money to get my fence put in. But our case is different, keeping their dog safe is seen as more of a necessity than a luxury.

Dan Furman
09-04-2009, 01:31 PM
Do most potential customers ask for samples or ask to see actual web pages you've written?

I have a myriad of links to client samples on my website (on a top level page that says "samples and testimonials".) Plus, in our first exchange, everyone gets a sellsheet with links to samples on it. In addition, my "style" is evident on my own site as well - by the time you're ready to lay down money, there's no mistaking what you are getting.

vangogh
09-04-2009, 02:10 PM
If money was that tight, I'm surprised she came up with the deposit. Usually those type of clients look for a cheaper service provider, which I always figure is fine to avoid having a situation like you just had.

Me too. Usually the people who are going to have the big money issues aren't going to pay a deposit. I've always found the deposit to be a great way to weed out those kind of bad clients.

Dan this does sound like an isolated incident and let's face it, these kind of things happen to all of us at times no matter what we do to try and prevent it. I don't know that I would have given back the deposit like I said before, but I can understand why you did. Sometimes it's better to take the loss and not have to deal with the further aggravation. As soon as you refunder her deposit you could ignore her. Keeping it would mean you'd have to respond to emails, etc.

huggytree
09-04-2009, 07:00 PM
at the end of the year i clear out my company accounts and usually leave $10k to work with for the next year...i also make sure i leave $10k in my personal account for a while incase i have to put it back in...

for my business $50k sitting around is typical...for a large plumber id expect $100k-$150k

i spend $10-15k on materials every month...i took in $18k just this week..

i work in large numbers all the time....every house uses $6-8k worth of materials alone.

$1k left for my business would mean im out of business.

i guess a website designer,etc wouldnt need $10k to work with....i still think you should have it though....im very conservative with my finances..i take no risks i dont have to take

Patrysha
09-04-2009, 08:38 PM
I've taken a lot of risks...but then when you have next to nothing you really have nothing to lose. I left home at 17 with $700 and a few boxes of clothes. I had hustled my butt off for that little bit of money...had a part time job, babysat, mowed lawns, cleaned houses, cleaned walls, looked after houses for ppl on vacation, looked after dogs for ppl on vacation. (I only had so little because I was paying for a portion of my own living expenses while I was still in high school and living at "home")...

I don't think I've had $10,000 all at once in my life...yet.

Maybe next year...

billbenson
09-05-2009, 01:05 AM
(wanted to know how I got links to work, to which I replied "my 'links' are underlined blue text

I thought that was funny.

I would have done the same thing. Customer ordered a xxxl product the other day. He was 160 lbs. I refunded his money, lost $50 or so. Made a friend though.

I wouldn't draw the line at spending money they really don't have though. I would have stopped because she didn't know what a link was. Someone knowledgeable would want your services. She didn't understand the value of your services which is something completely different.