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View Full Version : Need some preliminary reviews please



Harold Mansfield
08-24-2009, 05:48 PM
This is actually the first site that I am putting together as a personal representation, and not an excuse to sell a product or click an add.
All the content is not in yet because I haven't secured all of my services and relationships, but it's 75% done and I'd like to get some opinions, on style, function, and how easy it is to use....I'm going for moronically simple:p.

Here is the link (http://www.4thinternet.com), thanks in advance.

Spider
08-24-2009, 11:33 PM
Personally, I'm not into dark backgrounds for business pages. Something made it slow to load (on cable internet connection) - a large dark background graphic , maybe?

The sideways sliding and upward/downard rolling areas, made my head swim. It was amusing, but reminded me of that trick of trying to rub your belly and pat your own head at the same time!

Again, from a business POV, you have wasted a lot of screen real estate - will this be of benefit to you?

Frankly, it doesn't sell me on anything, technically smart, though it is. I may not have been the sort of person you will be selling to, though.

billbenson
08-24-2009, 11:50 PM
I really like the site Eborg. My question is; is this something you really want to do? You got into this because you disliked the service business. Your going back to having clients and dealing with people. I'm a career salesman. I absolutely hate it, but it pays the bills... I'd love to be where you are at just doing sites. I'm jealous.

Anyway, I'll let the others here nitpick your site. I think it looks really good.

Harold Mansfield
08-25-2009, 12:25 AM
I really like the site Eborg. My question is; is this something you really want to do? You got into this because you disliked the service business. Your going back to having clients and dealing with people. I'm a career salesman. I absolutely hate it, but it pays the bills... I'd love to be where you are at just doing sites. I'm jealous.


I like that too, but it's not bringing in enough money, fast enough and I feel like I am wasting opportunity to do something else that might boost the bank account a little.
You know how when you work online, everyone refers to what you do you as "He does websites" , or "I heard you know how to 'do' websites" ?
Well I started thinking how many times I have corrected people over the last 3 years, and how much money I might have thrown away by telling people "I don't do that".

I can throw on the customer service hat again, no problem. It's not bartending or dragging a super stretch (limo) up and down the strip on a hot Saturday night with a gaggle of broke bachelorettes that itemize every penny so no one risks paying an extra dollar more than the others, while they attempt to hide the girl that is throwing up in the ice bin....so I think I'll be O.K.:)

Yeah, I'm totally ready to do this. It's about time I bring everything together and start a real company like a grown up.

@Spider, I was afraid of some of what you said. I tested different designs with friends and relatives that don't know anything about the web other than surfing and email to see how "regular" people react and was surprised that many of them said of other web designer's sites that they look confusing and intimidating. Something I have suspected for a long time.

On one particular night, I conferenced 3 friends on the same line (we all know each other) and had them follow me around to different sites and they all unanimously agreed that they probably wouldn't call any of them because there was too much information to decipher, and would probably ask around for a recommendation from a friend instead.

I have been studying service websites for a long time and so many people waste so many words before they finally get to the point. You have to read for 2 minutes, just to find out what they do. I know most times that's for SEO purposes, but it bores the hell out of regular people. Even I couldn't take it and just left the site.

That really got me thinking.

I am trying to avoid that perception, and get to the point and explain things in plain English, while showing what is possible with WP. Pretty much anything.

IMO, too much technical jargon..and information all over the page that people have no idea what it means , but need service, is as bad as a long boring speech without any jokes. No one want to sit through it, and no one certainly wants to read it.

People don't want to look for a website designer. That is one reason why so many still put it off. It stirs the same feelings in people as looking for a home improvement contractor. They are scared they won't know enough to ask for what they really want, or will be easily taken advantage of because of what they don't know.

So yes, I am purposely making it simple, as simple as possible and (hopefully) stylish so people can get right to the information they are looking for, and hopefully feel comfortable calling me, but still show that I know what I am doing for the more advanced folk.

Not saying I'm right, or that I can't or won't change it...I mean, I can fill up a website with tons of information like nobody's business, but with this one, I just want to get to the point.
Besides, most of my first clients will more than likely come from referrals and shoe leather, not the internet.
But, nothing is written in stone yet on the design..that's why I wanted to run it by some "web people" before I order matching cards and stationery.

Right now, I just need to know if it looks good. I'm still working on the content.

Steve B
08-25-2009, 06:26 AM
I think overall it looks very professional. I would make it a bit easier to read by enlarging some font sizes and increasing some contrast with the background in a few spots.

If it were me, I'd rather see a phone number displayed. I would never click on that telephone image. I don't know how it works and I'd be afraid of it. I don't have a phone hooked up to my computer and no microphone, so I can't imagine it would work for me.

You make it sound like you have about a dozen people on staff. If that isn't true, I think you're going to look silly if someone wants to speak to one of the other staff members. If it is true, perhaps you might want to show some bios to show off some of their experiences and backgrounds.

painperdu
08-25-2009, 07:01 AM
I'd rather see the "What we can do for you..." message above the fold. When I hit a web page I like to know immediately what it is -it has to be the first thing I learn about a page.

The sliding objects are cool but a bit disorienting. This with the dark background confuses things a bit. I think orange fonts on the left side would help guide the eyes a bit better.

Harold Mansfield
08-25-2009, 12:00 PM
I think overall it looks very professional. I would make it a bit easier to read by enlarging some font sizes and increasing some contrast with the background in a few spots.
Definitely doable. Thanks



If it were me, I'd rather see a phone number displayed. I would never click on that telephone image. I don't know how it works and I'd be afraid of it. I don't have a phone hooked up to my computer and no microphone, so I can't imagine it would work for me.

Yeah, I think I'm going to display it in the header, I realize most people don't have that function. When you do that, do you ever get crank calls ? I always wondered about that since it's out in the open for every snot nosed kid and telemarketer to see.(Gonna make a new thread about that in "managing your business")



You make it sound like you have about a dozen people on staff. If that isn't true, I think you're going to look silly if someone wants to speak to one of the other staff members. If it is true, perhaps you might want to show some bios to show off some of their experiences and backgrounds.
Right now, I am still gathering relationships with people who specialize in different things. I may just do that, or reword a few things. Not sure yet.
I guess I tried to be slick in the wording "..a nationwide team of freelancers", because in reality, that is what it will be....a graphic artist in NJ (if needed) , me in Vegas, I have an SEO guy on call for more advanced stuff, and some others that I am still arranging like a coder and copy write person.


I'd rather see the "What we can do for you..." message above the fold. When I hit a web page I like to know immediately what it is -it has to be the first thing I learn about a page.

Yes. I think I will move that up a little, the only thing is that it will throw off the symmetry of the page since the display monitor is pretty much as far up as it will go , but I had thought about moving up that section to just below the "read more" button, and then expanding the area all the way down and running the "what we can do for you.." section till it meets that bottom of the "Helpful tips from our blog" area, and removing the Google Talk icon all together and placing the phone number under the logo.

Of course that would mean either changing the text to a lighter color since it will be in the darker area of the background image, or change the background image all together.,,,hmmmnn...but then I run into the "too much text" on the front page issue and having one paragraph of text in white (over the dark background), and another in black ( over the lighter background)...or maybe I can throw a slide show of example designs where the Google Talk icon is..gotta think about that.

Or I could display (when I get some) a testimonial or comments area there that slides like the blog entries. You got me thinking now. That may works since I had planned to only open comments on the "About" page for testimonials and feedback...I'm gonna need some coffee.


The sliding objects are cool but a bit disorienting. This with the dark background confuses things a bit. I think orange fonts on the left side would help guide the eyes a bit better.
I can do the Orange, and play around with the JS to see if I can orient that movement a little better.

Great tips, thanks.

KristineS
08-25-2009, 12:41 PM
I like it. It's simple, all the information is there and fairly easy to find, and you have many forms of contact information (which is always a pet peeve of mine). The copy I read seemed fairly straightforward and nothing jumped out at me as awkwardly written.

You might also want to clarify how the whole network of freelancers thing works. If I'm going to hire you for my business, what guarantee do I have that I'll work with the same person on the same issue? I would be a bit concerned that, because you're all freelancers, people could change quickly and I might end up starting over with a new person on a regular basis. That might be an issue that's not really applicable, but it did occur to me.

Harold Mansfield
08-25-2009, 01:00 PM
I like it. It's simple, all the information is there and fairly easy to find, and you have many forms of contact information (which is always a pet peeve of mine). The copy I read seemed fairly straightforward and nothing jumped out at me as awkwardly written.

You might also want to clarify how the whole network of freelancers thing works. If I'm going to hire you for my business, what guarantee do I have that I'll work with the same person on the same issue? I would be a bit concerned that, because you're all freelancers, people could change quickly and I might end up starting over with a new person on a regular basis. That might be an issue that's not really applicable, but it did occur to me.

Good point. It should be made clear that I am the contact person at all times, the person who will be doing most of the work (all in most cases) and responsible for getting the job done on time.

billbenson
08-25-2009, 01:30 PM
I don't know how you should play the "acting like a big company" thing in this industry. I've done it for years selling my product. Nobody has ever figured it out. My sales would drop dramatically if they knew I was just one guy. But that is largely because of the type of product.

If you have a couple of good people to outsource to, I don't see why you have to say its just you.

Harold Mansfield
08-25-2009, 02:25 PM
I don't know how you should play the "acting like a big company" thing in this industry. I've done it for years selling my product. Nobody has ever figured it out. My sales would drop dramatically if they knew I was just one guy. But that is largely because of the type of product.

If you have a couple of good people to outsource to, I don't see why you have to say its just you.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm not trying to portray myself like some big conglomerate, I actually want to keep a personal feel to it so people know that they will be talking to ME, but I do want people to know that I have specialists available so they feel comfortable that I can handle anything.
In today's business world, I know plenty of people that outsource specialized work. Hardly any Small to Med sized business keeps a full time staff outside of core workers vital to everyday operations.
But for someone who needs service to attempt to find all the vital components they need to complete a project, it's almost impossible.

Even when I worked with the first "company" doing web work. We had programmers all over the world to call on to outsource things. The salespeople were spread all over the country..the main guy was in NE and everyone else was everywhere else.

We are getting a new AC unit today. The AC guy outsourced to a heavy lifting company to get the thing on the roof so that he could hook it up. He doesn't keep a big crane truck around, and keep and operator on payroll, but he can get it done. He didn't make the unit, he ordered it from a specialized company that makes them...., or even drive it unit over himself , he payed someone else to do it that has the equipment to do just that.( i think it was the same company with the crane) ....and it's all part of the overall invoice.
It's just the way business is done today. He's still the main guy, and does 90% of the work, but if you are not installing units everyday, is it worth buying a $100k truck, insurance, maintenance, gas, and an operator on payroll with benefits ? And that outsourced company stays busy doing lifting heavy crap for other people all over the city.

I worked for Limo companies that leased a portion of the fleet, and didn't keep in house mechanics, we had contracts with service companies. Another company detailed the cars once or twice a week. It didn't stop us from getting the job done right. The paying customer doesn't care that someone else sprayed Armor All on the tires, they just want it done right, at a fair price.

We are all really just affiliates of someone else in one form or another.

Harold Mansfield
08-25-2009, 07:19 PM
I took some of your suggestions as far as changing font colors, moving columns, and changing logo to include ph number. I also removed the Google talk button 'cause you are right, "Who has it?"

@spider, I closed in some of the real estate, but I'm going to keep the featured section sparse for now, I kind like it and it matches well with the cards :).Edited: I also enlarged the fonts to fill in some of the area, yet still keeping it simple.

I tried moving the left column up closer to the featured section, but it just did not look right at all and threw off the whole blog design.
>Oh yeah ! I also changed the scrolling motion so both the text and the images move in the same direction, no more vertigo...and I even refrained from having them auto scroll.

Still contemplating just adding more text to that area, but I feel like I'm at my limit of how much text I want on the home page. I want it quick and easy to skim, not try and make the whole case on the first page.

Spider
08-26-2009, 09:50 AM
I like it much better now. It seems more simple and uncluttered than it did before, which is what you are trying to achieve, I think. (And I can keep my breakfast down! :D)

Good job!

Harold Mansfield
08-26-2009, 10:00 AM
I like it much better now. It seems more simple and uncluttered than it did before, which is what you are trying to achieve, I think. (And I can keep my breakfast down! :D)

Good job!

Alright! Now we're getting somewhere:D
Thanks for the input.

Harold Mansfield
09-09-2009, 09:56 PM
Made some subtle changes including prices , examples and social media integration.
Feel free to chime in if you see anything that looks off, or confusing to the average reader.

Update:
Just finishing up the matching Twitter Profile (http://www.twitter.com/4thInternet/), and Face Book Page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/4th-Internet-Media/144844575675?v=wall#/pages/4th-Internet-Media/144844575675?v=box_3&viewas=679064652&ref=ts) for this site.