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Patrysha
08-14-2009, 05:32 PM
As everyone knows my competition is fierce on a local level, so I find it hard to open up locally about my ideas. I have some key contacts who I can bounce ideas off of, but none of them have much experience with marketing.

Of course, brainstorming online has to be restricted to private forums that aren't indexed by the search engines...not because I don't want to share my ideas, but because I don't want the local competition to find it before I have a chance to launch...

not that I am exactly sure what his capabilities are in that area...he has a common name which makes it harder to rank...but at the same time he allowed his project to be listed under his competitors phone number in the local community guide...so...maybe it's unneeded precaution...but I feel better knowing I'm doing my best to protect what I can of my ideas (because really the components are easy to put together on a tight budget if you just know which order to put them together...)

I think at this point I am just babbling. I am bursting with ideas that I'd love to share...but I hold back a lot and watch instead...

Do any of you worry about your competition finding you on forums? Local or otherwise...

vangogh
08-14-2009, 09:37 PM
At times I've thought about it, but in the end I feel it's better to talk about things to get feedback and bounce the ideas off other people. An idea is only worth so much anyway. It's really the implementation of the idea that has value.

However there are some things I would put out there publicly. I think you have to find that balance between getting feedback and keeping some things to yourself.

Steve B
08-14-2009, 10:07 PM
That's why I start very few threads. I mostly give input on other people's questions because I don't want my competition to know much about what I do. Also, I stopped participating on another forum because I found my posts very easily on Google. So, yes, I worry about that.

Paul Elliott
08-14-2009, 10:18 PM
I think at this point I am just babbling. I am bursting with ideas that I'd love to share...but I hold back a lot and watch instead...

Do any of you worry about your competition finding you on forums? Local or otherwise...

Patrysha, most of the time I do not tell others who my clients are. This is no longer the case, but when I originally trained with Jay Abraham his techniques were becoming well-known. If a competitor knew I was the marketing consultant, he or she might be able to figure out what I would be unveiling next and prepare countermeasures.

In the intevening years the tools have multiplied and there are other skilled marketers available to businesses, so it is not as helpful to sit around and try to outguess the competition. It is better to simply try to leapfrog the competition.

My feeling has always been that my idea generating engine could produce more ideas than I could ever possibly use in 3 lifetimes, so I feel very comfortable giving away a lot of information. After all, what we do is not secret and the techniques are very generic. Our innovation using them is the clue to marketing success.

I have taken the stealth position like the guerrilla warrior: I'll discuss the techniques, but the subtle particulars come to light after they have already "happened to" my clients' competitors. Once out there, we must invent another plan. The one that just "went off" is now common knowledge.

If you have something you want to discuss with us just for the sake of getting feedback, set up a phone bridge and send the phone number and time to any participants you would like to include.

Another thought is that you could install a Forum script on your own site and invite only those you want to include in the discussion.

Paul

billbenson
08-15-2009, 01:20 PM
I keep it close to the vest. One of the reasons is there is a trend for manufacturers to place shopping carts on their own site. If they know how I sell their product online, they don't need me. Two lines that a distributor I know used to have did this. My friend would either have to sell well below list or add significant value to the product. Most distributors of these products quit selling the product line and customers went directly to the manufacturer.

Most of my competition are big distributors. They aren't a problem. But other "little guys" could copy what I do.

So as much as possible, I keep things on a "need to know" basis. I use analogous examples to ask my questions.

vangogh
08-15-2009, 05:32 PM
One thought to toss out that may ruffle a few feathers is that if your idea is so easily copied by the competition then it's not really giving you much of an advantage in the first place. Sooner or later you'll have to implement your idea and once you do your competition can copy it.

I'm not considering patents and trademarks and the like here. If your idea is one that will lead to a patent or just getting there first means you will gain a huge competitive advantage then you shouldn't be so free to share the information. However with ideas that aren't time sensitive or that can establish your brand as a market leader it really shouldn't make a difference.

Patrysha
08-15-2009, 06:08 PM
I don't know that there is an idea that I can put out there that couldn't be easily copied.

It does require a great deal of know how to pull it all together, but it's not difficult to learn how to using primarily free resources (the library should be a business owners favorite hangout, imo)

I do have competition that has no problem copying my work (practically, but not quite verbatim)...but copying me after the fact works to my advantage...it makes me look better.

Do you want to go to the very public initiator of a campaign (radio, print & web coverage) or the also ran who tucked it in to his own publication (with no further coverage) a month later?

The fact is he's only capturing the surface of the whole campaign...the whole thing has so many layers that aren't captured in the words on the page (or screen). I seriously doubt he really gets what this is all about...

One of my biggest strengths as a marketer is the simplicity of what I do offer...the end product of my brainstorms are programs/campaigns that make the business owners day easier while accomplishing a marketing objective (and often with a charity tie-in and publicity angle mapped out)

I have no problem if an individual business owner takes my free advice and applies it to their own business...it bothers me when someone takes my free advice and dispenses it to others as their own.

vangogh
08-15-2009, 08:53 PM
Patrysha what I mean is that that it's the implementation of the idea that has the value and offers the competitive advantage. You mentioned your ideas having layers and the competition isn't going to capture the whole thing when they try to copy it. Then you have a good idea. Your competition probably wouldn't have been able to add most of those layers had you talked about it in advance anyway.


I have no problem if an individual business owner takes my free advice and applies it to their own business...it bothers me when someone takes my free advice and dispenses it to others as their own.

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about that. Once you put advice out there anyone else can use it and offer it as their own. If you think about it how much of our own advice is really our own. Others taught us. We may synthesize that teaching with our own experience, but aren't we passing out the free advice of others as our own too?

Patrysha
08-15-2009, 10:09 PM
General advice is one thing...word for word without attribution and/or acknowledgment to the source is another.

Of course, everything we do is based on something someone did before us and our advice reflects what others have discovered and only a portion of what we do (especially when we are starting out) is based on personal experience and personal testing...that's to be expected. To borrow things that others have found to work and share those through through legal means (ie buying the product, recommending as an affiliate) is a legitimate business model. I wouldn't argue against that sort of sharing, but there are right ways and wrong ways to share what you know and what you have found.

vangogh
08-17-2009, 11:34 AM
True. I didn't mean to imply you would share every last detail. What I'm saying is if you share general advice your competition isn't likely to know all those details and won't really be able to copy you.

Getting back to your original question I'm aware that anything I write here is public and could be seen by anyone, including my competition. I don't have a problem with that. I think more good comes from it than bad. Now I won't share some specific details of a current marketing strategy and I might hold onto things that give me a competitive edge, but most things I have no problem putting out there.

Some of it is my business. I could tell you exactly why I made every design choice when creating a site and it doesn't necessarily help my competition. I might end up teaching them something, but they couldn't exactly copy what I just said to do in the same way I would do it.

KristineS
08-17-2009, 12:45 PM
We're experiencing that right now with one of our companies. It seems every time we launch a new product or promotion something similar turns up with our competitors in the next few months. I pretty open about our company, we have a blog and Twitter feed and a electronic newsletter, but there are a few things I don't mention in those places.

In a way it is kind of flattering, since our competitors are well established companies which have been around for many years, and the fact that they find our ideas worth copying tells me we're on the right track. On the other hand, I do worry that if I say too much I'll give something away and give our competition the advantage. It is a fine line to walk sometimes.

Business Attorney
08-18-2009, 06:14 PM
This is the flip side of the thread about spying on our competition (http://www.small-business-forum.net/managing-your-business/1832-should-you-spy-your-competition.html#post21062). On the one hand, we all want to know what our competitors are - and will be - doing but no one wants to unnecessarily educate their competitors about their own plans.

I remember several years ago a client used to often repeat the mantra "Cash is King." Today, in many cases, I think it is "Information is King."

Harold Mansfield
08-18-2009, 06:34 PM
When you are in business for yourself, there are few people to talk to. Your friends and relatives either don't care, or have no idea what you are talking about, so that is usually a dead conversation, so we are left to talk to others who know where we are coming from.

For me, since I don't have clients (yet...I'm thinking about doing something here real soon :)), I usually go with my gut, search out what others are doing, how they are doing it and go with it without much input from anyone else...I mean there isn't really another way.

I'm pretty good at bouncing ideas around, but I usually am not very specific about the actual application if it's something that I want to, or plan on using. You can still get good feedback.
And sometimes it doesn't matter because..like for instance when I have a good domain and an application for it, I have no problem telling what it is because there is only one...no one can copy it exactly like that. They have to come up with their own way and hunt down a domain and probably pay top dollar from a reseller...so I don't feel threatened.

But when it comes to new ideas, especially a way of doing business, or a new service to offer...the best feedback might come from existing clients.

What you are feeling though is the reason for screen names.

vangogh
08-18-2009, 08:36 PM
It really depends on what information you're thinking of sharing too. It doesn't make sense to share everything, but I think too often people become way to afraid to say anything about there ideas. I think of some of the people who've visited these forums and will only offer up vague details about their business. When you dig a little their business isn't anything so unique.

Say your new business idea is to build a car that gives off 0 pollution and runs completely on water. Great idea. If you can build it, we'll all drive it. Mentioning the idea in public is irrelevant though since the value is in the how are you going to do it.

On the other hand if that same person has figured out most of building that car and is looking for help with a few last details then it makes sense to keep a lot of the technical details that have been worked out under wraps. You don't want to share everything.

Taking it back to worrying about sharing too much in forums like this one, I really don't. There are certain things I'm not going to say, but those aren't going to be things that would typically come up in conversation. If someone asks a question here and I think I know the answer or think I can help in some way I will. If I have a question and am looking for thoughts or opinions I'll ask the question.

In the end I think you get more out of being open than you do being too closed off, but you do want to read over what you write before hitting that post reply button.

billbenson
08-18-2009, 09:08 PM
I doubt if you blurted out every last detail that has made you successful, that anybody would copy it. A lot of what has made many of us successful is certain skill sets and personalities that make them possible. If there was someone else that has the skills to do what you do, do they really want to? I know I certainly don't want to design websites for others for a living. Doesn't mean I can't apply some of what you do to my stuff?


When you are in business for yourself, there are few people to talk to. Your friends and relatives either don't care, or have no idea what you are talking about, so that is usually a dead conversation, so we are left to talk to others who know where we are coming from.

I can really identify with that. In my case I lead a hermits life. I don't like it, but I'm extremely trapped to a phone and a computer. I don't have any friends that understand what I do. Well, one acquaintance that knows everything about everything, but he doesn't count.

Harold Mansfield
08-18-2009, 09:14 PM
I can really identify with that. In my case I lead a hermits life. I don't like it, but I'm extremely trapped to a phone and a computer. I don't have any friends that understand what I do. Well, one acquaintance that knows everything about everything, but he doesn't count.

That's funny. I have one of those as well. Constantly second guessing what I do and offering suggestion based on internet folklore, or something he saw 20 seconds of on 60 Minutes 2 years ago.
He still thinks that companies like You Tube were really 2 guys in a garage full of computers that got lucky and sold for $800 million in 2 years...."You should come up with something like that !" , he always say's.
It's the same guy that asked me how to send a link in an email, and called me from the road to look up directions online and READ them to him. I send them via text to his phone and he though it was a special software that I had purchased. :)

He's one of my best friends, but I avoid talking anything business with him, he has all the answers but no hands on experience in anything substantial that he could actually make a dollar with.

monicadecker281
08-24-2009, 02:02 PM
Wow..very interesting forum about business brainstorming and competition. For me it is very essential to have a brainstorming in such company or organization. Everyone should share their ideas and knowledge about the said problems so that they can come up to more excellent solution that could help the company to be more productive. on the other hand, we should also consider the competitors.We should promote competition in a company. An advantage that a firm has over its competitors, allowing it to generate greater sales or margins and/or retain more customers than its competition.