Weird Types of Ads I See

[KingHippo]

I'd like to start advertising my products with relatively no cost. I've been more attentive with ads lately and noticed these ways of advertising but wonder about their legality and their effectiveness:

1) So I noticed that in most college campuses and even in some town squares in NJ, there are information boards. People put up all sorts of fliers advertising things like guitar lessons, selling their TV, moving companies etc.

2) Advertising with signs pushed into the grass on the side of the highway or even on side streets (think of election time where you see all the <YOUR STATE'S POTENTIAL ELECTED OFFICIAL HERE> signs)

3) Businesses and musicians / bands stickers being put on parkway tolls and in bathroom stalls

4) Businesses stapling signs / ads to telephone polls

5) Putting fliers under the windshield of people's cars

6) Standing outside of nightclubs / supermarkets handing out fliers

What experiences have you had with advertising your business using the above methods? Are there any legal hangups with advertising using these methods?

[KristineS]

A lot of places prohibit stickers because they can't be easily removed.

I see businesses that advertise with signs pushed into the grass or ads on telephone poles, but I tend to assume those businesses aren't legitimate and I wouldn't call them.

I, and a lot of other people I know, hate it when people put fliers under my car windshield wiper. They get crumpled up and thrown away immediately.

As for handing out fliers, that depends on how targeted your product is and how much you know about your customer demographic. Even then I expect your rate of return would be quite small.

[vangogh]

I haven't tried most of the items on your lists, but I do have opinions about them.

First though point #2 about the signs. You need permission to do that. You're not allowed to just put signs in the grass on the side of the highway. it's the kind of thing you can get in trouble for doing.

Same for #3 and #4 stapling ads to telephone polls and putting stickers on tolls and bathroom stalls. You're not allowed to put things there without permission and will likely be asked to take them all down. The technical definition of the suggestions is vandalism. Yes people do those thing, but people also get in trouble for doing those things.

If you're market is college students then it might make sense to place something up on the bulletin board. I do think you need permission to put something up there though.

If you don't market to college students you're getting a message out to people who aren't interested in your product or service so it's probably not worth the time.

I know fliers under windshields are a popular choice for people to try. As a consumer I can tell you I've never once bought anything based on a flier under my windshield. My immediate thought on seeing them is to be mad at whoever is making me waste my time throwing them out. I generally throw them in the garbage without reading them, though on occasion I'll read them to make a mental not of where not to shop.

I'm not suggesting everyone will do the same. Enough people put fliers under windshields so I suspect some of them work. Just know there are probably people like me out there who have a very strong reaction against them.

I think handing out fliers outside of popular locations probably doesn't have a great return. Again as a person getting them they usually find their way into the nearest trash can, but that is me and not everyone. You also do need permission to stand in front of someone's business and hand out your flier so make sure to ask before standing out in front of the supermarket or club.

None of the above is meant to discourage you from trying (other than the first three items I mentioned which you shouldn't do at all). Overall I wouldn't think any are going to have a great return, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't try. I would think they sometimes do work and none are particularly expensive.

I do think you get more return by first identifying your market and then crafting ads targeted to that market. I also think you'll get greater return by getting your message out to people in your market while skipping most of those outside your market. The suggestions here are more random. You don't have any idea when you give someone a flier if they have any interest in your offer. That adds luck into the equation so it's hard to know what your return will be.

[cbscreative]

I can't add much to the above comments except to say there may be an exception on the flyer handout example if the circumstances are right. There was a time I was given a flyer with pizza coupons while walking into a movie theater. Although I did not use the coupons, I can see where it could be effective. The pizza place was fairly close to the theater, so I'm sure someone who was hungry after watching a movie might have wanted a pizza.

[vangogh]

That makes sense. I can see how the Pizza Hut flier could lead to sales. It's common for people to go to a movie and have dinner after and the flier would remind people Pizza Hut was right there.

That helps eliminate some of the randomness and any time you do that it should lead to more sales.

[Steve B]

VG makes a lot of good points, but you're unlikely to get in trouble for many of those things. There really isn't anyone to enforce such trivial nuisances such as putting signs up on the sides of the road.

When I first started my business, I have to admit I put up signs on telephone poles and on the sides of the road. Eventually they all got taken down - except for one that I put up really high because I used a ladder (my competition was taking them down, so I tried to outsmart them). I would never do this kind of marketing again because I don't like it myself, but I was desperate and wasn't even in the phone book yet. I never got in trouble for it however.

Another thought to ad - of course the vast majority of people throw away and/or ignore most advertising. If anything more than a tiny amount of people acted on advertising - we'd all be filthy rich and everyone else would quit their jobs and go into business too. That's what makes it such a challenge to survive and be successful. If you are doing a direct mail campaign for instance, a "success" (depending on the situation) might be 1/4 of 1&#37; of the people who get it give you a phone call. That means that 997 people out of 1,000 threw out your letter without giving it a thought, but it was still successful.

What will be successful for you will be different than what will be successful for others. What kind of business do you have Kinghippo? You don't list anything on your profile or in your signature. You might as well get a little publicity from this forum!

[orion_joel]

I think that to really do marketing takes more then just picking up the half dozen ideas, that everyone else is considering. Try the following.

1. Look at your product, what is it?
2. Who is your competition?
3. How is your competition advertising?
4. List how your competition is advertising and compare it to how you have listed above.

Just one example below but it may give you ideas.

You may offer a come to your home car wash service, you look around and realise most of your competition do mail box drops. Of course you would do whatever research you can to find out if this is what they do and if it is a successful way for them to get business. However this means it is probably something that you want to do, so you need to look at what they are doing, what day do they do their drops, and is their flyer like. Maybe they drop their flyer on a Wednesday and it is black on White. Now just a guess most people would probably have their car washed on the weekend if at all, so maybe a better day for you to drop flyers is a Friday, but rather then Black on White, use Black on Yellow or Blue paper, something that stands out and catches attention.

What it comes down to is finding what your competition is doing make it better and targeted more and do the same. But always be adding, and improving, you cannot expect a major rush of people from just one type of marketing. If you get a 1/2&#37; response from every 1000 people your marketing is front of then you will get 5 in 1000, if you can find 6 different ways to get in front of that same 1000 people weather it be flyers, phonebook, newspaper, noticeboards whatever, you increase the chance of a higher response in that group.

[vangogh]

@Steve - True you probably won't get in trouble for some of those things, but I didn't want to encourage the behavior. I also think you can get in trouble even if you likely won't. I wouldn't expect the marketing to work all that well though. There's a reason billboards are so big. It's kind of hard to see the little signs while driving.

@Joel - Good point that you need to do more than your competitors. I think playing a little catch up is fine and makes sense. If all your competitors advertise in the phone book, you probably should too, though you should try to find out if that phone book ad actually works.


If you get a 1/2&#37; response from every 1000 people your marketing is front of then you will get 5 in 1000, if you can find 6 different ways to get in front of that same 1000 people weather it be flyers, phonebook, newspaper, noticeboards whatever, you increase the chance of a higher response in that group.

True. The more often and the more ways you can reach the same group of people the better your chances of getting a response from them.

[KingHippo]

My competitors are all using Google AdWords and banner ads on high traffic websites. I know I will have to do this too but I cannot afford to do this now.

Also, right now I'm really just trying to determine what types of IT products people want in just the local town / local university and try to find appropriate pricing.

[vangogh]

If you spend $100 on Google AdWords and the result is $150 in profit you really haven't spent anything. Don't be so sure you can't afford it. You can spend $5 one month, make $6 and then spend the $6 the next month to make $7.50.

I understand the issue of not having much money to advertise, but sometimes there's still ways to get involved without having to risk too much.

[orion_joel]

One way that you need to look at advertising KingHippo, is not from the point of view that i cannot afford to advertise, but can you really afford not to advertise. While you say that all your competitors advertise with adwords, have you considered doing the same, but try to better target your ads to a very specific set of keywords.

When i am searching google i will very often see adwords ads, that are very general compared to what i searched for, while maybe 1 out of 20 times the ad may be relavant in my mind to what i searched for often it has very little in common. If you spend some time finding keywords that are related to your product that you can create a specific targeted ad for, you may be able to work this for not a lot of money. Finding the keywords that only some of your competitors are using will cost less then the ones that many are. And using google adwords you can really limit the cost to whatever you budget is. Maybe say you can get your ad showing on a keyword it might cost you 10 - 15 cents a click, set your budget around 60cents a day, this may limit your potential traffic from this to 4 - 6 visitors, however you know it is not going to cost more then about $20 a month.

This is just how i worked my adwords ads when i was running them and i was getting leads that turned into customers without even hitting the budget most days. But it is really very much so guess, check and adjust the whole way, until you get into a stream that pays off.

[Ad-Vice_Man]

I'm probably going to shock at least a few people here with this statement but...

I don't have a problem with any of those forms of advertising you'd mentioned.

However, (didn't you just know that word was going to follow) it has to make sense for your particular need.

Windshield fliers? For CarWash (especially if they only hit dirty cars) Ding Ding Ding... Good! For a realtor?ZZZZZZZZZ bad!

Signs on telephone or lamp posts? For... Community Yard Sale...Little League... Dog Walking Band Promotion. All good! For In Home IT Services, Roofing, Maid Services, Tax preparation, Dentists, Doctors Bad.

Signs stuck in the grass? Temporary things (because they will dissapear) Realtor Open Houses, Community Events, Fairs, Little League sign ups, political candidates, legislative issues, all good

Handing out flyers at a nightclub... good if you're a band playing at that nightclub next weekend, good if you're promoting the "after hours" pizza and sub place next door.

Handing out flyers at a grocery store. Good if it's for another store in the same shopping area


all of these can work for the right purpose... again their tools. can you drive a nail with the handle of a screwdriver? sure you could but a hammer would be better.

[vangogh]

You may be surprised, but I agree with you. I think any method of advertising can work if your business matches the advertising. You give some good examples too.

I disagree though on using public property and things like stickering toilets and similar. I know people do all those things, but ultimately it's the rest of us who pay to clean it up. Should you be allowed to spray paint your logo on the side of a hospital or carve your URL into every tree in the park. I realize those are more extreme examples, but they are essentially the same thing.

[cbscreative]

Excellent perspective, Ad-Vice Man, as the method must suit the need.

[KristineS]

I think almost any method of advertising can work, as long as you're aware of the perception of that form of advertising among the general public and as, Ad-vice Man pointed out, the method of advertising makes sense for your business.

I'm with Vangogh though, I don't like anything that defaces public property or that someone else has to clean up. That's just rude.

[Ad-Vice_Man]

Yes i agree with the "stickering" thing. I left it out of my post. however, taping or stapling into a telephone pole ehh it's not going to damage the aesthics of the of the pole once it's removed.

[vangogh]

With the telephone pole thing I think back to when I was a kid, maybe 6 years old. Friends of ours were having a garage sale and their kids, me, my brother, various friends, went around the neighborhood putting up signs on every telephone pole we saw.

Before we'd even finished a cop had us backtrack and remove every one.

I agree it's not permanent damage, but it's still essentially the same thing. Most likely what will happen to those fliers is they'll end up off the pole and littering the ground. I'd rather not see that happen.

[Dan Furman]

Also, right now I'm really just trying to determine what types of IT products people want in just the local town / local university and try to find appropriate pricing.

Once you find that out, please don't rely on the types of advertising you just suggested in your initial post.

Most answers in this thread have been pretty nice in that they are saying that the types of advertising you mention have some merit, etc. I disagree.

Look, you can advertise a boy scout car wash on a bulletin board. You can advertise lawn care if you're a teenager, the latest MLM program, a bake sale, a used car, etc etc... But IT stuff? Not really. One in a million are going to get any kind of success there. Yes yes, someone can get creative and do 4 billion boards and get one call and close that sale and things get moving, but the truth is, the "free" approach is very lacking in terms of results. Especially for a more professional type business.

I work with many small businesses, I've owned a few (both failures and successes), and I wrote a book about them. I strongly feel the #1 reason small businesses fail is under-funding when it comes to advertising/marketing. They go in with a decent work ethic, some real passion, but then have a passive "well, I'll advertise when I get going" attitude... and in almost all cases, that never happens. I've seen it countless times.

And I don't mean to use the word "funding" as if you need venture capital. You don't - but you probably do need some adwords, a decent brochure, and maybe even the yellow pages if you are looking to do local B2B IT work. We're not talking a King's ransom here - maybe 2k to get you going nicely.

Now I realize 2k isn't pocket change, but let's be honest, 2k isn't that much money either. If it were me (and it HAS been me), I'd whip that credit card out in a second and get the initial advertising I needed. Because if you can't take that small risk, then being in business might not be for you. Don't mean that to be harsh - I'm just being honest here. Business usually requires some financial risk.

Conversely, perhaps take a few bucks out of savings. Or, lacking a credit card or savings, put things on hold, take a second job for four months and bank that check. Bottom line: do whatever is necessary to get a few bucks together to get some decent advertising going. If it means savings, credit, extra work, etc, then that's what it means.

That "free" magic bullet is almost always a dud.

[vangogh]

Most answers in this thread have been pretty nice in that they are saying that the types of advertising you mention have some merit, etc. I disagree.

In all fairness to most of us in this thread much of the advice we gave was prior to knowing the specific business in question was IT. That wasn't revealed until the end of the first page. Until then we were dealing more in generalities. :)

I think you're right that the original suggestions aren't the best for an IT business. I think some of the ideas had merit in general though depending on the business. If your market is college students, the bulletin board thing seems like something worth doing.

[cbscreative]

I noticed the same thing, vangogh, and I agree with Dan that these definitely do not apply to IT.

[Ad-Vice_Man]

Yes for IT you're absolutely right... but please re-think the YellowPages thing. this is 19/20th century thinking.

[cbscreative]

I would clarify the yellow pages point. For IT, it's not a priority. For B2B, it's usually a waste of money. Businesses today have computers which are on all the time. Phone books are either tossed or hard to find as very few people will look through the phone book when the computer screen is right in front of them. The same is true of many target markets, including IT (unless they have nothing and are looking in the phone book).

With that said, YP advertising still has its place. If your tartget market is 35 or 40+, then use YP. If your target market is mostly 50 or 60+, then definitely use YP. If you deliver pizza, then YP is still very good, especially if there are hotels in your delivery area.

As the point is continually being made here, consider your product or service, the market, and the objective of the advertising.

[Marcomguy]

Much depends on your target market, positioning, company image and how you deliver your services. If you want to be seen as a "guerrilla IT firm" that's different from those stuffed-shirt firms (whoever they might be), then by all means use guerrilla advertising. Use humor, put a magnetic billboard on your car with your URL or 800 number, go for it.

I've seen a number of IT firms in my town grow with little or no advertising. It took time, as they mostly built their businesses through word-of-mouth, but they succeeded.

Not knowing your goals, I'm not sure if this approach will work for you.

However, since you said your peers were using pay-per-click, I'll assume that some advertising is necessary for success in your area/particular line of business.

There are still other ways you can use Google. You could try Googlebase, or target a smaller niche market and optimize your site for that niche. That would help your natural and paid search results.

[Dan Furman]

Yes for IT you're absolutely right... but please re-think the YellowPages thing. this is 19/20th century thinking.

Not sure about that. An in-column ad is cheap, effective enough, and probably somewhat necessary. Many admin assistants are in charge of "getting a computer guy", and many of them still do not google.

Not saying you need a quarter page, etc, but you should have a presence beyond a listing.

[Steve B]

It took time, as they mostly built their businesses through word-of-mouth, but they succeeded.

And time is money. So, it probably cost them a lot more than 2k while they sat around for several months waiting for the word of mouth to kick in.

[Dan Furman]

In all fairness to most of us in this thread much of the advice we gave was prior to knowing the specific business in question was IT. That wasn't revealed until the end of the first page. Until then we were dealing more in generalities. :)

I think you're right that the original suggestions aren't the best for an IT business. I think some of the ideas had merit in general though depending on the business. If your market is college students, the bulletin board thing seems like something worth doing.

I agree with you on that point, but this is seemingly never the case when this type of thing comes up. It's almost always more of a "how can I advertise for $0" question, and not a "how can I hit this specific market" question.

It's not so much the bulletin board (etc) I'm against (which yes, could be fine for marketing to college students) - it's the "where's the free magic bullet because I don't have the $$ to advertise" mindset - it just almost always leads to failure. In my opinion (and in general terms), if it comes out of your printer, it's probably not acceptable advertising (noted exception for the guy with the 3k printer :) ). Even a professional business marketing to college students will probably be much better off putting a glossy flyer on the bulletin board. So when people ask me "how can I advertise for free", my answer is almost always along the lines of "Forget it - just get the $$ to advertise - be it credit cards, savings, second job, loan from parents, etc."

The other part of this equation is how much you have at stake. My experience has been that a businesses where the owner has nothing monetary at stake (no risk) doesn't get the same work and attention as one where there's something at stake. There's nothing that will make you more serious about business than putting 2k on a credit card for advertising. Of course, that's no guarantee of success, but my experience [both personal and as a consultant/mentor] has been that those who are willing to take a little financial risk often have a much better shot at success.


Much depends on your target market, positioning, company image and how you deliver your services. If you want to be seen as a "guerrilla IT firm" that's different from those stuffed-shirt firms (whoever they might be), then by all means use guerrilla advertising. Use humor, put a magnetic billboard on your car with your URL or 800 number, go for it.


But even Guerrilla stuff costs some money to do right. Most people who won't spend money on nice flyers aren't buying magnetic signs or 800#'s either.

I just see this issue as a question of allocating the proper dollars to advertising. And again, it really doesn't have to be THAT expensive. Even $500 out of the gate can get you somewhere.

[cbscreative]

The other part of this equation is how much you have at stake. My experience has been that a businesses where the owner has nothing monetary at stake (no risk) doesn't get the same work and attention as one where there's something at stake. There's nothing that will make you more serious about business than putting 2k on a credit card for advertising. Of course, that's no guarantee of success, but my experience [both personal and as a consultant/mentor] has been that those who are willing to take a little financial risk often have a much better shot at success.
Definitely true. Many of the "opportunities" out there that aren't scams have high failure rates for exactly the same reason. Their strength is that anyone can succeed because of low startup costs. Their weakness is that anyone can succeed because of low startup costs. But I'm not really trying to go down that path here, just reinforcing a great point.

[vangogh]

You make a lot of good points Dan and I do agree with them. I think a lot of people are looking for the $0 magic bullet. I see it all the time and get contacted more than I'd like by people who would like me to make every page of their site #1 in Google for a price that might buy me a meal.

There are no magic bullets. Sometimes it comes across that way when you see a success story, but that's only because we generally only see the last part of the story, the payoff. We don't get to see all the hard work that went into getting to that last act.

Interesting point about people being more motivated to work when they have something invested. I agree. When you have something to lose it makes you fight harder not to lose it.

[KristineS]

It's not so much the bulletin board (etc) I'm against (which yes, could be fine for marketing to college students) - it's the "where's the free magic bullet because I don't have the $$ to advertise" mindset - it just almost always leads to failure.

You are so right about this, Dan. I run into this all the time with the people who own our company. They want orders and sales but they don't want to spend any money. It's so frustrating, because I try to educate them and they'll nod like they get it, but then they go back to their old behavior.

[Ad-Vice_Man]

The other part of the "internet dream" or the $0 Invested leading to millions is that you don't see the time, and personal effort put in by those people. Assuming that Time=Money it's not truly "free". Most successful and legitimate businesses have found that they reach a point where the price of advertising is far less expensive than the price of their or their employee's time. This point can be made about just about any business expense.