Facebook for Businesses

[KristineS]

While many people are skeptical about Twitter, I'm skeptical about Facebook. I have a personal account, but have never really gotten the whole point of that site.

Now, it has been suggested that we might want to have a Facebook page for one of our companies. I'm just wondering if anyone has used Facebook for their business and what the results have been. Also, if you do use Facebook for business purposes, do you have any tips?

[vangogh]

Facebook isn't my favorite and I can't say I use it all that much. I have an account and I'll connect with most of the people I connect with in other places, but that's about it. Some of the desktop Twitter clients will also connect to your Facebook profile, which does make it easier to follow what's going on there. Unfortunately the Twitter app I'm using at the moment doesn't connect to Facebook, though it's planned for the future.

What I see others doing is forming a group around their business. They get people to subscribe to the group and then that group sends out periodic messages related to their brand. Maybe it's an invitation to an online get together or to a conference or an announcement about a new product, etc.

I think all the normal networking rules apply. You connect with people on Twitter. There's no reason why you can't connect with them on Facebook too. In fact the more places you connect with them the stronger your relationship is.

People do advertise on Facebook, though I've never tried that. One reason people like it though is because you can really target ads to your demographic. Unlike a search engine which only knows so much about you, Facebook knows plenty based on your profile details.

There's plenty of info on Facebook marketing if you search. Here's one post Facebook Marketing Strategies (http://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-inside-story-facebook-marketing-strategies)

One thing I've found with other social sites is that at first I don't always find them useful. I join more because I feel like I should, but don't have any idea what to do or any inclination to explore. Maybe a few months later I explored a little and a few months later I explored a little more. In time I find the sites I enjoy and figure out how to market through them as well. You don't have to use every site.

I've been meaning to get back to Facebook and spending more time with it to see what I can really do and how to make it more useful and enjoyable. Assuming I do I'll make sure to let you know what I figure out.

[lav]

One thing I've found with other social sites is that at first I don't always find them useful. I join more because I feel like I should, but don't have any idea what to do or any inclination to explore. Maybe a few months later I explored a little and a few months later I explored a little more. In time I find the sites I enjoy and figure out how to market through them as well. You don't have to use every site.
Ive been using facebook for almost a year now (thats probably why you dont see me here much lol), Ive mainly used it to keep in touch with friends and love it. Its only been the last week or so that ive been looking at it from a marketing angle (you know me slow to catch on).

I made a fan page for XL Grafix on facebook (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Valentine-NSW/XL-Grafix/112659202372?ref=nf)only a couple of days ago (there is not much there as yet) but I am beginning to think it would be better for me to create a seperate account for XL Grafix. This would mean that I could directly pursue people I want to connect with easier as opposed to the fan page which is just passively waiting for people to join it.

Has anyone else pondered this?

[lav]

After looking into it more it seems facebook dont want people to hold multiple accounts. I just found this while on the business account help page.


If I already have a user profile, can I create a business account?Maintaining multiple accounts, regardless of the purpose, is a violation of Facebook’s Terms of Use. If you already have a personal account, then we cannot allow you to create business accounts for any reason. You can manage all the Pages and Socials Ads that you create on your personal account.

Please keep in mind that the fans of any of the Pages you administer will not have visibility or access to your personal account or profile. Any actions that you take as a Page administrator on your Page will show the Page’s name as the actor and not your personal name.

If you wish to manage ads for multiple clients, you will need to do so from one account. We suggest you restrict all ads for each client to separate campaigns. Unfortunately it is not currently possible to designate separate credit cards for each campaign or to have multiple administrators for the same ad account.

[Harold Mansfield]

I still don't understand how to use facebook effectively yet. I have a personal page that is combined with my music blog. I have all my "Tweets" and new blog posts automatically update my Facebook page so I don't actually spend physical time on it.
I don't have a lot of Facebook "friends" but, somehow it is a good source of referral traffic to my blog. It brings more traffic daily than I have "friends", but to be honest, I don't understand how, or why.

I have been meaning to up my friend count with a few more DJ's and promotion companies, but it's difficult to know which are real or not.

As far as having multiple accounts..I don't see how they would know if you use different email addresses, or what the big deal is.

[Spider]

I took me a long time to overcome resistance to joining Facebook, but now I have, I'm glad I did. It hasn't done anything noticable for my coaching business yet but it's early days. I figure getting business from/through Facebook will take as long as getting business from joining a golf club, if not longer because of the lack of face-to-face contact.

What I have found useful, though, is how well one can keep in touch with friends and make new friends. This is even done without the friend noticing. I mean, real world "keeping in touch" involves actually meeting them, taking time out for coffee or a phone call, just to keep up with what they are doing. This is done instantly on Facebook as their posts "keep you in touch" without actually being in touch. So that on the odd occasions when you do meet (real world) you are as much in the know as when you meet frequently.

To take one of my 'friends' as an example - I might meet her once or twice a year, along with many other Toastmasters. I knew she was a district officer with Toastmasters and is very active around our district (and Houston is a big city!) Meanwhile, I'm sure she knew equally little of me. When I met her (before FB) we were mere acquaintances, almost strangers. Now, even though we don't meet any more often, I know a great deal more about her and she knows a great deal more about me. When we do meet (as we did a few days ago) we met and chatted like old friends - because that is what were are now - thanks to Facebook. The business result of that is I am likely to recommend her as the Realtor she is and my name is likely to come to the fore if business coaching is on her mind. And this is not only because we now know what each of us does, I am also familiar with her personal activities and she, I hope, has been noticing my activities on Facebook.

Frankly, I think it is a mistake to "promote" oneself on Facebook. If one comes over as "using Facebook for business" you lose the benefits of "people do business with people they know, like and trust." If all they know about you is your business, they won't know you so well, and are thus likely to like you and trust you less.

[vangogh]

When I met her (before FB) we were mere acquaintances, almost strangers. Now, even though we don't meet any more often, I know a great deal more about her and she knows a great deal more about me. When we do meet (as we did a few days ago) we met and chatted like old friends - because that is what were are now - thanks to Facebook.

I think in many ways that's exactly how social networking works for all sites. It's simply another avenue to connect with someone. There are many people who I know call friends, because we've connected on one or more social sites. Most I may never even meet in person, but through our interaction online we've become friends. And while the main point in getting to know them isn't business related, any thing you do to extend your network or friends and acquaintances ultimately impacts your business in a positive way.


Ive been using facebook for almost a year now (thats probably why you dont see me here much lol)

So that's where you've been. I hadn't realized multiple accounts were frowned upon at Facebook. I can see how they don't want you to have tons of accounts, but it seems reasonable to me to want a personal account and a business account. What you may want to do is explore all the ways you can group people and control which access of your profile each group gets to see.


I still don't understand how to use facebook effectively yet.

For me it's been that I still don't get a lot of the site personally. I generally don't like using a site to market myself unless I actually enjoy the site. I think that enjoyment helps you see how to use the site effectively and also how to stay within the unwritten guidelines of the community.

My lack of interest in Facebook in large part has to do with my not really taking the time to understand how the site could be enjoyable and useful to me. That's one reason why I suggest periodically jumping in and playing around more than you might have in the past. Facebook has been on my mind lately as a site I need to explore again. One of these weeks I'll spend a few hours over several days exploring and seeing how I can set things up. Hopefully once I do, I'll find the site more interesting, enjoyable, and useful.

[KristineS]

After looking into it more it seems facebook dont want people to hold multiple accounts.

Well, that could be a problem. I do have an account for myself, but the account for the company is totally separate, I'm just the one who is administering it as part of my job. So I guess I'll have to figure that out.

I know there are people that use Facebook for business, I see them on Twitter. Guess I need to do some more research and see what I can find out. I haven't spent a great deal of time on Facebook, so I'm not really sure what the benefits and pitfalls of having a corporate account there might be.

[vangogh]

Kristine I can't imagine that would be an issue. The company account isn't really you're account. You just happen to administer it. I can't see how Facebook would have a problem with it. I actually see plenty of people who have a personal account and then one for their business. I think the issue is more that you can't have 2 personal accounts or the business can't have two accounts specific to the business.

I also can't see how Facebook would ever be able to police it.

[Spider]

The problem I see with having a personal account and a separate business account on Facebook is not so much whether Facebook allows it or not. It is the efficacy of it that matters, I feel. If you have a separate business account, you are dealing with the social environment as a business and so are not socially networking, you are business networking - which, I personally feel is spamming. I think the benefit of social networking comes from networking with people socially - as a person - and not as a business.

As I said in a previous post---
I think it is a mistake to "promote" oneself on Facebook. If one comes over as "using Facebook for business" you lose the benefits of "people do business with people they know, like and trust." If all they know about you is your business, they won't know you so well, and are thus likely to like you and trust you less.

To me, spamming includes pushing your business messages into a social network. To be successful at social networking, I propose, one must be a person not a business. And, as that person, one must be a whole person, who washes their hair, plays with their children, watches movies and listens to music. If all you are going to do is be "the salesman" for XYZ Co, you are not being sociable, and will get ignored.

[vangogh]

I think the benefit of social networking comes from networking with people socially - as a person - and not as a business.

Good point. I think businesses can still network socially, but it's a different kind of networking. Facebook in its origin wasn't meant for businesses. It has grown though to include them. And Facebook doesn't have a problem marketing to us on the site so I'm not sure there's any reason we can't market to each other.

Still it can easily come across as spam. You don't have to push your message though. You can for example set up a group and only deliver messages to those who join the group and hence want to receive your messages.

[KristineS]

I'm pretty sensitive to spam and have always been careful to provide value when posting or Tweeting or whatever on behalf of one of our companies. We always put a human face, usually me, on our companies as well. I don't just go in and post about our latest whatever, I also interact and answer questions and just talk. So I think I am a real person, albeit one who is talking about a company as opposed to my own life.

As for Facebook, that is part of my struggle at the moment, I'm not really sure how to use it in a business sense. I'm not even really sure how to use it in a personal sense, as evidenced by my much neglected personal account. So I guess I'll have to see what hints and tips I can find and then decide if this is something we want to do or if we should move on to other avenues.

[lav]

Ive decided to keep just the one account. Facebook allows you to create "pages" or "groups" for your business and you can create as many pages as you like. You can invite your facebook friends to join your "page" as a "fan" or join your "group" as a "member". You can manage all your pages through an administration panel which also gives you what facebook calls an "insight" (another name for basic stats I think). The people who visit your pages have no real connection with your personal (unless you want them to) account which is good in a way as they cant see your private posts or anything of the such.

This has been more effective for me I think as opposed to my original idea of having seperate accounts as I am able to market my page to my "friends" however and whenever I want. I am unsure if many of the people I have made as friends on facebook would have accepted my friends request if i had been a business.

I'll see how it goes in the coming weeks

[Spider]

...You don't have to push your message though. You can for example set up a group and only deliver messages to those who join the group and hence want to receive your messages.Which I have done (although I occasionally slip a link onto the main news feed and hope it is not considered spam.)

KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE group @ Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=87380788039)

[Spider]

I have found it quite easy to expand my reach on Facebook. Too soon to say I have gained any business from it, though. This is how I find myself approaching it--

Only "Friends'" posts are included on the News Feed (= one's personal Home page.) I do not see original posts by their friends although comments their friends make to my friend's post are seen. So, I can converse with complete strangers if - and only if - they have commented to something one of my friends has said.

I equate this with going to a real-world networking event, seeing someone I know, and joining the conversation they are having with someone I do not know. In this way (at FB or real-world) I get to know strangers and they are not strangers anymore. If the exchange is substantial enough, I will invite this 'stranger' to be a friend. All it is doing is replicating online a very common real-world situation. (And for that I consider it absolutely marvelous.)

Another way I am meeting new people is by participating in groups and posting to the group's discussion board. Again, after some discussion, I invite the person (or am invited) to be a friend. Also, having started my own group. I invite new members to be a personal friend.

In this way, I am expanding my circle of 'friends' in exactly the same way as I would offline. Only, with Facebook, we don't have to spend hours enquiring into every facet of each of our lives, we can click on the person's name and find out as much about them as they care to reveal - again, exactly what would happen over time in the real world.

Each time someone checks out my profile (the electronic equivalent of "getting to know you" conversations) they find out I am a business coach and I don't have to push it on them. They find out naturally and if they like and trust me - or when they reach that stage - they can contact me and business grows. Likewise, once I know, like and trust them, I can approach them for business.

It's all very natural, as long as one does not try force the issue by making every post about oneself - which would no doubt cause the same result as someone coming to a real-world party and trying to sell you their latest business offering.

[vangogh]

I like your approach. The comparison to offline networking is a good one and I think more people need to see social networking that way. In the end you're doing the same thing. The only difference is the medium has changed and each site will have it's own written and unwritten rules. Pretty much the same as any offline community of people.

Thanks for the tips. I still need to spend more time with Facebook and learn how to set things up better. For some reason I never do. There are some Twitter clients that pull in Facebook content as well. The one I've been using lately doesn't have that ability at the moment so I may switch to another application that does.

[Spider]

I would offer this, for anyone interlinking Facebook and Twitter (and other similar services, like LinkedIn.) Don't be too eager to have every service relay your individual posts. I have one FB Friend who "pings" everything in addition to sending e-mail notices. For me, the trouble is, I am connected to him at Facebook and LinkedIn and I'm on more than one of his personal e-mail lists. Thus, I get every one of his posts four or five times, and he is a very prolific poster. So, my "friend" is in my face a dozen times a day!

That, I'm sorry to say, has soured our actual, real-world relationship. And will no doubt affect any business we might do with each other.

[vangogh]

You can turn the emails from Facebook off it you want. I used to get too much email when someone posted something so I just turned it off. Now I have to go to Facebook itself to see those updates. I forget where it was to turn off the email alerts, but I don't remember it being hard to find.

[Spider]

I have all e-mail notifications from Facebook turned off because I go there often enough to not need them. I don't go to LinkedIn so often so I have e-mail notifications turned on. Turning off the LinkedIn e-mails would mean I stop getting e-mail notifications from everyone, not just the one offending member. So I must leave them on and suffer the constant barrage from this one person.

In any case, I am talking about other private e-mail lists.

Still, it is possible to hide individual F/b friends from one's F/b news feed, which is what I have done with this person. But it doesn't help him promote his business if people are going to turn him off. That was the point of my message above.

[phanio]

When I first joined Facebook a few months ago, i created my profile then found a way to create a business account that linked directly to my personal account - it was like just a separate page to the main personal account. I got it all set up - then could never find it again. I have tried several times without success - guess I am just not savvy enough to figure it out. Kind of just gave up on it - was taking way to much time.

[vangogh]

Oh gotcha Frederick. I think I misread your earlier post. I missed it was the LinkedIn emails. I guess at some point we have to take the good with the bad. Sometimes I like the email alerts, but other times they do become a pain.

On another note I am trying a different Twitter client which also links to Facebook among other sites. It's missing a few features I like and others aren't quite what I want, but it probably will get me to use Facebook more. I have 2 weeks to decide since it's not a freebie. With Twitter I didn't really get into it until I found a desktop client I liked (even though I've now switched a few times since). Going to the sites in a browser doesn't work as well for me since I have so many other things open in my browser.

@Joseph - Did you by any chance save the emails they sent. I would think they sent you the relevant info at some point. Don't feel so unsavvy. Some sites I can never remember my password so I never go back.

[lav]

then could never find it again.haha I did the same thing I searched for over an hour. Click on "Applications" in the bottom left corner of your Facebook home page. There should be a list and one of them should be "Ads and Pages" If your page creation was successful clicking that link will take you to your administration panel which will have a link to your page.

[lav]

Oh I forgot to say after editing your page dont forget to click the link to "make it live"

[jonicode]

Though Facebook has its promises, I guess I'll stick with Twitter. Seems to me that Facebook is more like a "playground" rather than a serious place to do business.

[Harold Mansfield]

I finally tackled Face Book this week end and opened up a "Fan Page" for my dance music blog (http://www.facebook.com/pages/124-Beats-Per-Minute/129079883556#/pages/124-Beats-Per-Minute/129079883556?v=box_3&viewas=679064652). Previously I have been using my personal page as an all in one, but since I have started connecting with actual friends, and started offering services, I figured it was time to get into it and look like I know what I'm doing.

So now the REALLY time consuming part will be to go back through the hundreds of record labels, artists and managers that I have accumulated or promoted over the last 2 years and connect with them via Face Book to get this party started.

I have to admit, of all the profile pages to build, I actually like the options on Face Book more than any of them.
After some hesitation, it really only took me a day or so ( of messing with it all day) to get a real feel for it. I'm even thinking about doing a small ad campaign on there.

There are some fabulous Facebook company pages out there, and I really can see me embracing it strongly over all others, especially since I can't stand My Space.

[social-networker]

I think that you should keep your professional life separate from your personal life. I also don't like the idea of marketing on generic social media sites such as facebook. Try business social networks such as linkedin

[Harold Mansfield]

I think that you should keep your professional life separate from your personal life. I also don't like the idea of marketing on generic social media sites such as facebook. Try business social networks such as linkedin.

It's a good idea in theory, but as far as protecting your personal information..once you put your name and picture on something, it's too easy to check out you personal profiles.
There is a little bit of personal, even in your business profiles.

[Spider]

I think that you should keep your professional life separate from your personal life. I also don't like the idea of marketing on generic social media sites such as facebook. Try business social networks such as linkedinI find this a very interesting idea in this day and age. I always felt the same, but I'm an old guy and most of my business career was B.I. (before internet), and even B.C. (before computers) to a large extent.

I now realize that keeping business and personal lives separate never was a great idea and is detrimental to your wellbeing today. To have one set of business friends and a different set of personal friends is very limiting, both to your business progress and your social progress.

Why not increase your personal friendships by including business associates, and why not increase your business potential by including your social contacts? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Which is why the likes of Facebook are so popular.

[Harold Mansfield]

I find this a very interesting idea in this day and age. I always felt the same, but I'm an old guy and most of my business career was B.I. (before internet), and even B.C. (before computers) to a large extent.

I now realize that keeping business and personal lives separate never was a great idea and is detrimental to your wellbeing today. To have one set of business friends and a different set of personal friends is very limiting, both to your business progress and your social progress.

Why not increase your personal friendships by including business associates, and why not increase your business potential by including your social contacts? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Which is why the likes of Facebook are so popular.

I agree with your Frederick. No matter the times, business has always been done with a degree of personalization, either on the Golf course, Strip Clubs (Vegas), a collegiate connection, referral from a personal friend, local familiarity, Nepotism, Fraternal/Sorority connection, and so on.

I've nailed interviews and landed jobs just by being from the same city, a fan of the same team, or knowing some of the same people and I'll bet everyone on this forum has had similar experiences to some extent.

Even going back to college applications..there was an emphasis on extra curricular activities, personal interests, and hobbies...and some of the more in depth job applications and interviews always ask about personal interests, community involvement, hobbies and other personal activities.

People have always become involved in off job activities like Softball teams, charity events, and other things as a way to network for business. There is no escaping it, many aspects of your personal life can be a great help to your business life.

As a general rule, you should stay way from letting your political, religious, and other argumentative views cross over into your business "personality", but you can't just be an entity, especially today..you have to be a person.

[vangogh]

Good point Frederick. I don't see any reason why you have to keep your work life and personal life separate. Some things in my work life don't cross into my personal life and vice versa, but so many things do. If you're keeping them separate does it mean that if someone at a party asks you what you do for a living you can't tell them.

I don't share everything in my personal life with my work life and I don't bring every aspect of my work life into my personal life, but there's no reason the two can't mix on a lot of levels.

[KristineS]

I struggle with the whole work life/personal life thing somewhat, since I'm the face and voice of the companies for which I work, so there is a professional Kristine Shreve out there, but there is also a personal one. The two do mix, so I am always aware that one persona (so to speak) may cross over into the other.

Nothing on the Internet is personal, no matter how much we'd like to think it is. Once it's out there anyone who is looking can find it. Anyone who is putting content on the Internet needs to be aware that it all will reflect back, whether it was intended to be personal or professional.

You also need to keep in mind, as the recent decision which required Google to reveal a bloggers identity proves, that anonymity isn't sure protection. The best defense is not to put anything out there that could backfire on you. Either that, or be prepared to accept the consequences if it does.

[Spider]

... The best defense is not to put anything out there that could backfire on you. Either that, or be prepared to accept the consequences if it does.Well, if you (the collective 'you') feel that your life and your actions need to be defended, then you are going to have a very untrusting attitude towards others and suffer the consequences of that.

The route I have adopted is to strive towards excellence in all I do. Not to be better than others but to be better than I was. Of course, I trip up occasionally, but it was never from lack of trying. Thus, the failing can be considered an honest one and still not need to be defended.

I gave up looking over my shoulder for attackers a long time ago. Are there no attackers any more? Maybe there are - I just don't notice them. And as soon as they realize their attacks go unnoticed, they drift off to find a more interesting target.

I think my attitude on this score changed when, during a particular troublesome period of my life, a friend remarked that "children always throw stones at the tree with the most fruit."

So, if you are finding people throwing too many stones in your direction, first determine if they are acting like children and then whether you are producing as much fruit as you possibly can.

Or, you could endeavor to become as boring as possible so people aren't interested in attacking you!

[KristineS]

I'm not talking about being bland or boring Frederick. I'm just saying that you need to be aware that what you say and do online could have consequences and if you're not willing to deal with those consequences you shouldn't do whatever it is you're thinking of doing.

Really, I was thinking of things like kids who post pictures of themselves being drunk and idiotic on Spring Break and then a potential employer finds those pictures and doesn't hire them. Standing up for your beliefs and representing yourself as you really are is one thing. Being an idiot is something else.

[Harold Mansfield]

I think as much as we'd like to believe that we keep business and personal lives separate...what we do for a living is part of who we are, and is usually the second of 2 questions when meeting someone for the first time : Whats your name ? and , What do you do ?..been that way for years.

I'm not advocating putting pictures of your kids first poop on your business profiles or website ( I actually don't think that you should put pictures of family members online, if you also have a business online using your real name), but we are a lot of things, family, community, friends, and so on...it's would be very strange for profession to be the one thing that no one knows about you.

Martin Lawrence had a sitcom "Martin" and no one ever knew what one of the characters, 'Tommy' did for a living, and it was never said. He would always answer questions like "C'mon, you guys know what I do, stop messing around". It was funny because the more he was evasive about it, the more everyone wanted to know.

When I was a Bartender, at some places, co-workers would hang out with the clientele..to concerts, sporting events..even go to their homes for BBQ's. I always drew that line and never wanted to get involved with people personally outside of the bar or club. That way I could be sure to not lose a good customer, or good tipper because of something personal that may be in disagreement...especially when there's drinks flowing...and also because I didn't want to know to much about people's personal circumstances..especially if they gamble a lot at the bar (we have poker machines on the bar in Vegas).

I think that's the line that you try not to cross, although, sooner or later it is inevitable that you will be come personal with a client or business associate or two.

[Paper Shredder Clay]

I love Twitter. I like FaceBook but for only keeping up with friends. I like that with Twitter you can have multiple accounts, which makes sense, you want to tweet personal, and work-related you can, but with Facebook they seem to sandwich it together. I do have co-workers connected to me as well as my work in my FaceBook, because I am always conservative with what I post, but you do need to remember that if you decide to get wild. For professional networking, I use LinkedIn.

[Harold Mansfield]

I love Twitter. I like FaceBook but for only keeping up with friends. I like that with Twitter you can have multiple accounts, which makes sense, you want to tweet personal, and work-related you can, but with Facebook they seem to sandwich it together. I do have co-workers connected to me as well as my work in my FaceBook, because I am always conservative with what I post, but you do need to remember that if you decide to get wild. For professional networking, I use LinkedIn.

On Facebook you can now open a separate Business page, Fan Page, or Group that is separate from your personal account. When you set it up there are options for what kind of business, entertainer, or profession you are (there is even a designation for website) and then it gives different options for set up that are particular to that industry.

You still need to make use of apps, and preferably customize them with your own logos and such to get it looking professional, but it's pretty sweet.
A lot of companies have Facebook Business pages...just off the top of my head, I think I belong to Crown Royal, Capt. Morgan, Hersheys, Pioneer, and a whole slew of DJ's and performers.

From what I understand there is no limit to the amount of Fan or Business pages you can have. They are all under your main account, but they don't have to be connected, or cross over.
From what I have seen, Facebook is the only networking site where you can actually build a 4-5 page profile and sell your products from it, run contests, offer discount coupons, announce sales and specials and the whole "tell friends of your friends" thing is pretty nice . You can do pretty much anything that you want with them, and there are all kinds of marketing and entertainment apps to spruce them up a little.

My Facebook link in my sig is my personal account, but I also have 2 others for business, that are intertwined with their respective Twitter accounts and blogs.
It's a good thing..light years ahead of any other Network that I have seen, and leaving others like My Space, Orkut, and Friend Feed in the dust.

For a website, it's well above anything you can do with My Blog Log, Blog Catalog or any other website or blog community out there. I rarely will give credit, with all the "popular" apps and networks out there that really don't do much or burn out in a year....but they really have upped the game.

[lav]

I think I belong to Crown Royal, Capt. Morgan, Hersheys, Pioneer, and a whole slew of DJ's and performers.All these and still not XL Grafix (http://www.facebook.com/XLgrafix).....

Im finding it easier to market my products on facebook than I do on Twitter, yet it is much easier to connect with potential clients on Twitter. I havent tried as much as I should I know but it is more time consuming to get my twitter follwers to visit my facebook page. The biggest problem with marketing a business on facebook is its privacy. I have 160 or so fans of my facebook page but a lot of them are made up of friends and business contacts. It is very difficult to find new contacts through facebook as people are less inclined to connect with someone they do not know personally. Twitter on the other hand is very easy to find new contacts but I have yet to find a way to effectively and efficiently market my products in the same way I do on facebook.

[vangogh]

Do you get your Twitter followers to visit your site? If so maybe you can try to get them from the site to the Facebook fan page? Even with all the social media communities our sites are still the hub of our online activities.

I suppose you could also toss the occasional link to your Facebook page in the twitterstream and see if people will follow it.

Just sent you a friend request too. Sent one your way as well eborg.

Maybe we need to start a new thread listing our Facebook profiles so we can all connect there.

[lav]

Maybe we need to start a new thread listing our Facebook profiles so we can all connect there Great idea!

Even with all the social media communities our sites are still the hub of our online activities.Ive been thinking about this for a couple of weeks now and agree the main focus is to get visitors to my site and in turn make a sale, but I am wondering at this stage whether focussing on recruiting fans for my facebook page could be of higher value than someone getting straight to my site..... For example someone may visit my site (and even make a purchase) they may only go there looking for one thing only, they may not visit every page or read everything on my site, so after they make their purchase that could be it for a while and they may not visit again. With facebook (and Twitter) I can keep in touch with those people and advertise to them everyday (or when I find time) for free.

So Im wondering even though my main sales tool is my website It may be just as beneficial for me to concentrate on recruiting fans for my facebook page and market to them over and over.

Now how to get more fans????? and fans that are my target?????

[vangogh]

What I was thinking with using your site as a hub in this case is that once you have followers on Twitter or fans on Facebook who might already be visiting your site, why not make sure they know about the other one. Do you have something on your site that highlights all your social media profiles? That way someone visits your site from Twitter, sees you have a fan page on Facebook, and joins.

There's no reason why you can't work to getting more fans to your Facebook page without them first seeing your site, but why not let people who have already shown interest in what you're doing in one place easily find the other places where they can follow you as well.

[Spider]

I think we are approaching this all wrong ... er.. Let me rephrase that - not "wrong" as in "bad" but as in "ineffective" and "inappropriate."

Facebook - and probably all social media venues, including face-to-face, real-world networking meetings - are not the place to be selling your stuff. It is a place to meet people. Period. We mustn't forget the "period."

Not "meet people and sell them stuff" -- "meet people. period." Then, later, when we are known, liked and trusted, a purchase may happen. Social Media Marketing (SMM) is a whole new ball of wax, in my opinion. The old way of "in-your-face" marketing just doesn't cut it in this brave new world.

When I see remarks like --
"..With facebook (and Twitter) I can keep in touch with those people and advertise to them everyday..."
and "...concentrate on recruiting fans for my facebook page and market to them over and over."
-- I realize it isn't going to happen.

In the real world, these "spammy" techniques are hated. We curse people for cold-calling us at dinnertime, we curse people for spammimg our e-mail and wasting our fax-paper with junk fax blasts. On Facebook and others we don't have to curse, we just cut them off.

You won't believe how many of my FB "friends" are hidden from my Wall. And a couple have even been "un-friended."

Follow the path I see forming in this thread, and I venture to suggest you will have a list of fans a mile long but nobody listening to you because they have all 'hidden' you.

The solution, I feel, is contained in this complaint -- "It is very difficult to find new contacts through facebook as people are less inclined to connect with someone they do not know personally."

That is an excellent demonstration of this brand new world. To sell to people on social media is going to be the same way you sell to friends and family. You become friends first and let *them* come to you to purchase, not you go to them to sell. It IS difficult to make new contacts to sell to, because that's how people want it - they don't want everyone at every turn trying to sell them stuff.

The person who figures out how to become a friend first and a solver of problems second is going to win at SMM. The people who try to bring real world pressure sales, incessant advertising, and a call-a-minute techniques to this electronic world is going to fail - and die wondering what happened!

[Harold Mansfield]

I agree with you Frederick. Some of the examples that I found interesting were of local businesses that offer discount coupons through their Facebook page like Spa's, Restaurants and such.

And a lot of artists have fan pages on FB with stores to buy their albums or tracks, and I think that is also a good use of the app.

Most companies use it for brand reinforcement and try to get "fans" to participate in fun activities and discussions about the product, or the lifestyle surrounding the product.

TGI Fridays recently abandoned their Social Networking attempts on their own site and is now pushing their FB page on T.V. I imagine they will advertise deals and speacials to new followers/fans once they have achieved their goal of 500k.

You are right, there is a time and place and Social Networks seem to work best when you actually Network, not just sell, sell, sell.

[KristineS]

I agree with you Frederick, you have to establish credibility and prove you're there to add value to the community not just to bombard people with advertisements and sales pitches. I've never gone into any of the Social Media sites I use thinking that I was there just to sell people. I always strive first to make contacts and add value. If sales are generated out of those relationships, that's great, but that isn't why I'm there.

There will always be people who are about nothing but selling, but ultimately I think that approach will become less and less successful. People will start voting with their block or unfriend buttons and those people or companies who are only there to sell will find they don't have anyone to listen to their message except other people with the same goal.

[Harold Mansfield]

It depends on who you are. For us, the small business guy, we have to work harder, network, answer questions, help people, and participate

But for a company like Best Buy, TGI Fridays, Capt Morgan..they can promote and launch new products, send coupons, announce special deals...and I think people expect that from them...that's what they do..they sell the product.

But, they also have multi million dollar ad campaigns that entertain people, and have reinforced their brand for years so they don't have the credibility factor to contend with the way we do.

If Crown Royal sent me a coupon for $1 off my next Crown drink at any bar, I would think nothing of it, and use the coupon immediately on my next outing...but if some guy I never heard of sent me 20% off of a service that I wasn't in the market for, or can do for myself (because he didn't do his homework of who I am and what I do), or a free landscaping estimate I may consider that intrusive and spammy...but maybe not if he was targeting residents in my area, had a nice web presence and FB page, and the offer was well written.

There is a right and wrong way..but us...we have to do it from the ground up because we don't have any brand reinforcement, or credibility up front. Participating in the Network of choice is the only way to build that with a select group that you interact with....and it's a long term commitment.

[KristineS]

You do make a good point about the big guys eborg. It's the same thing on Twitter to some extent. The big guys can get away with Tweeting only about sales or product info or whatever because they've already established their brand and people already like or dislike them. People are also used to being sold by the big brands, since that's what they do all the time. So the rules are a bit different for them.

[Harold Mansfield]

You do make a good point about the big guys eborg. It's the same thing on Twitter to some extent. The big guys can get away with Tweeting only about sales or product info or whatever because they've already established their brand and people already like or dislike them. People are also used to being sold by the big brands, since that's what they do all the time. So the rules are a bit different for them.

You know I always bring up my Mother, but when I was a little kid (maybe 6-9 years old)...wanted to stay up late and things like that...I remember she would always say. "You can't do what I do because I'm an adult. I've paid the dues. But you can learn so that when you get here you can do it your way".

That used to piss me off when I was a little kid, but it sure applies to business.

Changing the subject a little since we are talking about FB, someone sent this to me earlier.
It's Caesars Palace's blog, and Facebook page, and it really made me mad, because I can think of about 100 ways that they could be better, engage and entertain the reader, and offer more complete information.....and they paid someone to do this (not me of course :))

http:// livecaesarspalace.com/
http:// www. facebook.com/caesarspalacelv# /caesarspalacelv?v=wall&viewas=679064652

But even still, with the brand name recognition they have, they still get the readers, and the fans on their FB page, even with something so ridiculously simple.

[lav]

When I see remarks like --
"..With facebook (and Twitter) I can keep in touch with those people and advertise to them everyday..."
and "...concentrate on recruiting fans for my facebook page and market to them over and over."
-- I realize it isn't going to happen.I understand what you are saying Frederick and I know that you are a fan of my page, so you would know that I dont go over the top with pushing it onto people. Lets be clear though 90% of the people that make the decision to become a fan of my page are genuinely interested in my products or my business so they are joining knowing that they are going to get the updates. If they do block the updates or "unfan" my page because they are not interested in my updates then that is fine because they were not likely use us anyway. I will emphasise though that I am marketing to my facebook fans mostly, I do ask every new friend to become a fan of my page and a lot of them dont (even close relatives etc) obviously because they dont want the feeds from my fan page, I dont market much to my actual friends, I do try to give them the opportunity to decide for themselves by letting people know about my fan page on occasions But I doubt it would be enough for any to block me. I know others who go overboard with it but to be honest most of the pages I am a fan of are using the service with integrity which is a nice surprise.

Im only new to marketing on facebook but one of my recent posts generated one of the best short term responses Ive ever had in 8 years of business (and it was free). I posted a link to our canvas prints page on our site. I posted it on my fan page as well as in my "main feed" page (yes I advertised to friends) We sold 35 large canvas prints just from this alone in just 2 weeks and guess what it was all from friends and they all said "I didnt realise you could do canvas prints"

Now Imagine if I had the the belief that I should keep my friends and business seperate.


In the real world, these "spammy" techniques are hated.I hate spam but Its only spam if it tastes like spam.

[Spider]

Yes, I know you are not going overboard on Facebook, Jason, which is why I did not quote you by name. But some people are. I was merely focusing my message on the "advertise to them every day" aspect. You may not be doing it but you did seem to be suggesting it and I wanted to oppose the concept.

Advertising to friends can be done, as you demonstrate, but one does have to be careful. I do, too, and I hope I have the right balance, too.

[vangogh]

A lot of it depends on who you are and why people are following you. If you're trying to force your message on people then absolutely they'll simply unfriend you or never friend you in the first place.

Some though will follow you because they want to hear what you have to say even if the message is advertising. You do have to be careful, but if your brand is strong enough I suspect people will follow you even if all you do is advertise to them.

Overall I agree that the best way to approach social media is to meet people and build a social network. You really should approach online communities thinking about how you can contribute to them and add value to the community. If you do that the community will give back to you with your having to ask. If you go in looking to take from the community you'll never become part of the community.

I like to use forums like this one as an example of social media. Forums may not be the sexy choice in social media, but the same principles apply. Think about what happens when someone registers here and they immediately drop a link to some product of service they're selling. They don't last long do they. Even if we didn't ban their accounts I know most people here would either ignore the ad or point out quickly that it's spam. On the other hand I imagine that those of us who are here participating and helping each other end up getting contacted about work. We've built a network here and built relationships with each other. Over time we've come to know what each other can do and people generally prefer to work with people they know in some way. Each of us here is less of a risk to each other than a random stranger.

The same thing will work with sites like Twitter and Facebook if you approach it with the idea of contributing to the community in some way.

[Harold Mansfield]

Here's the rub on Social Media like Twitter and Facebook, more so than not (especially on Twitter), people are following you because they want to spam YOU with THEIR product.

I can honestly say that I have probably dropped 5 sales pitches/ product links total out of all my Twitter accounts, and that's over the last 2 months. Most of the time, on all my profiles across any network, I'm dropping information, news and links related to the niche that I assumed people were interested in when they signed up to friend or follow me.

I have definitely given away more stuff on Twitter than I have pitched for sale, tons of CD's, Headphones, Event Tickets, Electronics...you name it.

But, of the followers on Twitter everyday, about 60% of them are some kind of Internet Marketing/ Social Media Expert and I know that there is no way that they are interested in what I am Tweeting about, so why would they follow me ? There's only 2 reasons...to see what I'm up to and get some different ideas, or to market their services to me (which is more believable)

As I mentioned before, I changed my Twitter banner on my music blog to a "Don't follow me on Twitter" if you are not interested in this type of music. And I'm dead serious about it. I even changed my updates to "Protected", and I'm dropping people like crazy on a post by post basis everyday.

My other accounts are still open, but, for some reason this one was starting to attract all the marketers, experts, and "gurus" that can tell me how to make an extra $10k a month with no experience.

Like I said, on Twitter, people are just strong armed marketing. They just drop a pitch and an affiliate link, or sales page right on the "Thanks for following me" message. It's like cold calling in a way...just spray the whole area and see what falls in the basket.

[Spider]

Which sounds like a really good reason to not join Twitter.

[vangogh]

Hopefully Twitter can do something about it or the community will stop responding. I'm no longer following people back the way I was a few months ago and will likely go through all my followers soon and start unfollowing some.

Twitter is no different than most other things that gain popularity online. As soon as something becomes popular some decide to spam it. Then we wait and see if the site figures out a way to combat that spam or if the place becomes a cesspool.

[Harold Mansfield]

I would like to think that other people who really want to connect with others, and stay updated on current events in their niche are starting to get a little more proactive and start dropping spammers and marketers from their accounts...maybe most already have and I'm just getting around to it.

I don't think that they can stop the spam, but there should be some kind thing embedded that if you Tweet the same message more than once in an hour, or multiple times a day, you get banned for a 24 hr period.
That would make things interesting.

[vangogh]

They'll never stop spam 100%, but hopefully they can enact some measure to keep it under control.

All these sites are still very young. In fact the whole social media idea is still new to most people. We all have to sort things out for ourselves still. There's still something of a wild west mentality to it, but as the sites and social media in general start to mature some of the spam should go away naturally.

[KristineS]

Didn't Twitter just create new TOS that were supposed to help with things like the MLM and make quick money spammers?

I knew they did, here's a post on their blog (http://blog.twitter.com/2009/09/twitters-new-terms-of-service.html) about it. One of the things it does is define spam.

[vangogh]

I think it will come down to how they prevent spam. The definition is a first step, but unless they can actually do something to prevent it, the definition is mostly useless.

[Paper Shredder Clay]

Wow thanks, I just took another look at it. And am signing up for a business page. But I still stand by what I was trying to say in my previous message. If you connect with co-workers or advertise your business in your account you need to be conservative, unless your business is a rebel.


On Facebook you can now open a separate Business page, Fan Page, or Group that is separate from your personal account. When you set it up there are options for what kind of business, entertainer, or profession you are (there is even a designation for website) and then it gives different options for set up that are particular to that industry.

You still need to make use of apps, and preferably customize them with your own logos and such to get it looking professional, but it's pretty sweet.
A lot of companies have Facebook Business pages...just off the top of my head, I think I belong to Crown Royal, Capt. Morgan, Hersheys, Pioneer, and a whole slew of DJ's and performers.

From what I understand there is no limit to the amount of Fan or Business pages you can have. They are all under your main account, but they don't have to be connected, or cross over.
From what I have seen, Facebook is the only networking site where you can actually build a 4-5 page profile and sell your products from it, run contests, offer discount coupons, announce sales and specials and the whole "tell friends of your friends" thing is pretty nice . You can do pretty much anything that you want with them, and there are all kinds of marketing and entertainment apps to spruce them up a little.

My Facebook link in my sig is my personal account, but I also have 2 others for business, that are intertwined with their respective Twitter accounts and blogs.
It's a good thing..light years ahead of any other Network that I have seen, and leaving others like My Space, Orkut, and Friend Feed in the dust.

For a website, it's well above anything you can do with My Blog Log, Blog Catalog or any other website or blog community out there. I rarely will give credit, with all the "popular" apps and networks out there that really don't do much or burn out in a year....but they really have upped the game.