Allowing limited promotional content to attract talent.

[RobertL]

Hello all. I'm quite new to this forum and before my brain is cemented as far as this site goes I'd like to bring in my outsider's perspective.
If this forum allowed a reasonable amount of self promotion including links without no-follow-tags there would be a lot more business talent using the forum. Talented business people are not going to spend their time here unless it's worth it financially in one way or the other. We're all pursuing our own financial interests here, or did I miss something.
Hope to hear what you all think.

Thanks,
Robert

[nealrm]

The links currently in place do allow for self promotion, they just don't help with your SERP. Personally I don't think the no-follow tags has any major effect on professionals using this forum. They either get a benefit sharing information and ideas or they don't.

[vangogh]

If this forum allowed a reasonable amount of self promotion including links without no-follow-tags there would be a lot more business talent using the forum

If we allow people to self promote, what the forum will have is more people who are here to promote themselves, most and probably all of whom would create threads and posts that only serve themselves and offer no value to anyone else. I don't want people joining this forum in order to improve where their web pages rank in search engines. All that would do is turn this forum into a magnet for spam like most forums on the internet. If your goal in posting is to get more backlinks try the .com forum. Same domain as this one, but .com instead of .net. You can post all the "do follow" link you want on that forum.

Allowing people to post promotional content would also make this forum less valuable to real people and in the eyes of search engines. All the links you would like to add to posts to promote your business are going to lead to search engines to have less trust in the information that's here and likely cost this forum traffic. Again, I'll compare us to the .com version of the domain. That forum used to be #1 for any small business forum related search, until we opened this one, and built a more useful forum. Now we rank #1 for those searches instead of them. If people would rather we look like the .com forum just let me know.

I understand you'd like to promote your business, but what you're asking me to do is make this forum less useful to people and less trustworthy to search engines so you can get some links back to your site. I'm having difficulty coming up with a reason why I should spend my time and money to do that.

[Harold Mansfield]

Hello all. I'm quite new to this forum and before my brain is cemented as far as this site goes I'd like to bring in my outsider's perspective.
If this forum allowed a reasonable amount of self promotion including links without no-follow-tags there would be a lot more business talent using the forum.

In reality there would be a lot more spam on the forum and it would no longer be an enjoyable place to be. We already delete quite a bit of spam weekly.

This isn't a place for self promotion. The reason VG and the volunteers who help run this community and keep it going isn't to provide a place for others to shop for business leads. If that's what you're looking for then you need to come up with your own marketing plan and build your own community.

It's a help and discussion forum for like minded people, business owners, start ups or people just thinking about it to talk about business issues, changes in business, get some advice, give some advice, and maybe even learn a few new things.



Talented business people are not going to spend their time here unless it's worth it financially in one way or the other. We're all pursuing our own financial interests here, or did I miss something.


Yep, you miss the whole point of the forum, although many people here end up doing business with each other.

[turboguy]

We're all pursuing our own financial interests here, or did I miss something.


My thoughts are that it could be beneficial but would more likely just increase the amount of spam posts.

I can only speak for myself but my only interest in pursuing financial interests here is in a more indirect fashion, specifically that I may learn something here that benefits my business. My other reason which is probably the main one is that I have been in business forever and picked up a lot of knowledge that may help others and if I can help someone I am happy to share any ideas or helpful information that I might have.

After posting here for a short while I did add links to my two main web sites to my signature. That wasn't with the idea that the back link would immediately catapult my web sites to the top of a google search but rather for general information in case someone wondered what I actually did.

[KristineS]

The whole point of this forum has always been about sharing knowledge, not about promoting our individual business interests. Most of us do have links to websites and such in our signature, but that's about as far as it goes. The way this forum is run may not be for everyone, but we've found that, in the main, we attract knowledgeable people who want to share what they've learned. We're building a valuable knowledge base here, and I think that, rather than allowing self promotion, will make a far more lasting contribution to the success of business owners

[RobertL]

I hear you all, it's a very good forum. That however doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. There are a lot of smart and talented people here, but for every smart and talented contributor here there's another 100 out there who don't want to invest the time because they see no benefit for themselves. Whether you like it or not, business is driven by greed. The purpose of business is to make money, that's what it's about. We make connections with other businesses to make money. In my own business I only make money when my clients make money, therefore I want my clients to make money. Business in wealthy countries is about synergy and cooperation, businesses working in synergy towards making money. Elsewhere it's about lying, cheating, and backstabbing. I'm rambling and ranting and segwaying now but the point of it all is that business people like to make money. There's no carrot...
Peace out

[vangogh]

My experience running this forum and spending years being the admin for other forums before this one suggests that changing the signatures to "do follow" will only encourage people to come here and fill up the forum with meaningless posts so they can get another link. It won't encourage smart and talented people to finally decide that now they can help others because they're getting something back. You're welcome to disagree, but ultimately it's not your decision to make. It's mine. It's a decision I very consciously made years ago and I've been happy with it ever since

[Harold Mansfield]

I hear you all, it's a very good forum. That however doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. There are a lot of smart and talented people here, but for every smart and talented contributor here there's another 100 out there who don't want to invest the time because they see no benefit for themselves.

Then this isn't the right forum for them. For most people here the discussions and knowledge is what makes it worth while for them, and many are able to use what they learn to benefit their business. There's a reason smart talented people are here and keep coming back. Apparently you're not seeing it.


Whether you like it or not, business is driven by greed. The purpose of business is to make money, that's what it's about. We make connections with other businesses to make money. In my own business I only make money when my clients make money, therefore I want my clients to make money. Business in wealthy countries is about synergy and cooperation, businesses working in synergy towards making money. Elsewhere it's about lying, cheating, and backstabbing. I'm rambling and ranting and segwaying now but the point of it all is that business people like to make money. There's no carrot...
Peace out

There are plenty of places that you can go online to create profiles, promote, advertise, and offer services in a market place. There's also your own marketing and self promotion on your own blog, website, podcasts, webinars, social media, and whatever else you want to do.

If you want to link to those things in your signature, we have no issue with it. That's why we allow signatures. If people want to do business with you, they know how to click a link and contact you. A lot of forums, discussion groups and website comments do not allow sig links and for good reason.

Again, this is a help and discussion forum. It's not a directory or a place for free promotion and solicitation. If that's not what you're looking for and think participating is a waste of time that's fine. This forum doesn't propose to be everything for everyone. But a lot of people do get benefit from discussing the issues that we do around here and those people are our target market. They/we also appreciate being able to have discussions without constantly being solicited with "I can help you with that. Give me a call." posts.

If you see opportunity to open a forum or website with the format that you want, you should do it. However I will say from experience in my 10+ years online where I've seen "business" forums and directories come and go by the hundreds, and that all of those who have tried to create a place where you can freely promote your business 24/7 are all gone now. Most end up just being a bunch of new business owners shouting "Look at me" to each other.

It's the first idea that every aspiring webmaster has, and they have a faster failure rate than pretty much any other kind of site I've ever seen, participated in, built for others, or worked on. IMO, it's been done to death.

Maybe you have a new spin on it that no one has ever thought of before. In that case, you should try it.

[nealrm]

Whether you like it or not, business is driven by greed.

hogwash! - Good businesses are generally not driven by greed. Yes, there are some businessmen that are greedy and everyone needs to earn a living, however that does not warrant a blanket statement that business is driven by greed. If fact if you look at most successful businesses, you will find that enjoying the work, wanting to provide good services or products, or taking sanctification with building a successful business all are prevalent drivers than greed.

[Fulcrum]

Whether you like it or not, business is driven by greed. The purpose of business is to make money, that's what it's about.

Ahh, but you're confusing a stable for profit business with companies that only care about today's profits and this quarter's profits. I can name an international, well recognized, publicly traded company (not Apple) that has more liquid cash in it's account than some countries have in GDP. These guys got there by withholding dividend payments (increasing retained earnings for no apparent reason other than driving stock price), playing games with payables (we'll pay you when we feel like it rather than our agreed upon terms), demanding bulk pricing for prototype/one-off style work (100-1000pc quotes but only want one piece run initially for qualification and then cancel/delay PO after single part is approved).

That is greed rather than good business.


We make connections with other businesses to make money. In my own business I only make money when my clients make money, therefore I want my clients to make money.

Agreed.


Business in wealthy countries is about synergy and cooperation, businesses working in synergy towards making money. Elsewhere it's about lying, cheating, and backstabbing.

I hate to burst your bubble, but this is less of a truth now than maybe it was in the past (if it ever was true back then as well). Just look at the stock market, the Target fiasco in Canada (somehow the president still took home around $70M):confused:, banks, insurance companies, governments, tech company 1 hour east of me that received a $60M government grant the same day it announced a $60M dividend payment (did I mention they have $140M liquid in the bank):mad:, etc.

[Brian Altenhofel]

A nofollow link has the same business value as a do-follow link unless your only goal is to manipulate SERPs.

[Bobjob]

I'm here to share business and life stories with everyone. To learn. To ask questions I have no one else to talk to about. This website has a lot of value.

My business is not based off greed but a desire to educate my customers on how to get the most from the product I represent. My factory in Germany has not had a price increase since 2010. The dollar is strong against the Euro right now. I could increase my prices 4-5% and stack some dollars, but I don't because I'm not greedy. I'm doing fine financially. Yes I want a Porsche 911 turbo convertible, but I'm happy getting there slowly and having inner peace that I'm not a greedy person.

[KristineS]

What it comes down to is that the Internet is a big place. When this forum was started, a conscious decision about what it would be, and what it would not be, was made by the man who started it and supported by those who were there at the beginning. There are places online where people can trade signatures at each other and solicit business. This is not one of those places. This forum has become a great place for people who have questions to which they need answers, and want those answers served without a helping of sales.

[turboguy]

Whether you like it or not, business is driven by greed. The purpose of business is to make money, that's what it's about.

the point of it all is that business people like to make money. There's no carrot...


There are billions of people in the world and we are all different with diverse goals, and varying items of importance.

When they do a survey of peoples job satisfaction pay usually doesn't make the top 5. Perhaps I am an oddball but for me making money, particularly lots of money is of very little importance. I am much more like BobJob in his response. Right now my business is making a fairly good amount of money but there have been lots of years were we didn't and one where we lost 180 grand. I have to say I was not fond of losing lots of money but there is no more satisfaction for me when we make a lot compared to making a little.

I have to think the same is true for many entrepreneurs. Many have given up jobs that payed far more than they make on their own and most would never go back. I could have probably made far more working for a big company.

Perhaps I am weird but I tend to liken running a business to playing a game of Monopoly. I enjoy the challenges of growing a business. I like the feeling that I am employing a number of people and providing an income to support their family. I like the idea that I am making our local economy a better place. I like competing for market share and trying to outsmart my competitors. I like creating new products and improving products. I like the creative side of my business. I like meeting so many really great people both with our customers and suppliers. I like it when I hear customers talk about how much they love our products. I like it as well when a customer does have a problem and we go above and beyond what most companies would do to make them happy. I like the feeling of running a good business. Those things all motivate me. Making money doesn't, at least as long as I have enough to pay my bills and lead a normal life.

About a year ago the news programs were talking about the Power Ball being the largest to date. My wife and I were sitting around and she asked me what I would do if I won the power ball. Neither of us found any reason to care about winning it. The only thing we thought we would do if we won it was put a new roof on the factory. We did put the new roof on last year so now if we won it we would have absolutely nothing to buy with the money. We don't buy tickets so our chances of winning are rather small.

You are evidently very money motivated. I have no problem with that but I don't think all people are motivated by money. I am sure you are not alone however.

[RobertL]

Seems like a lot of people got stuck on a line about greed. I'm not a particularly greedy person; I know some who are and they drive cars that cost more than my house. So yes greedy people make more money. I don't make that much money so I should be OK. That was as mentioned segwaying and ranting on my part. Different discussion please... Simply saying there's a carrot deficit... :)

[Bobjob]

RobertL, I give you credit for forward-thinking and thinking outside the box.

[vangogh]

Simply saying there's a carrot deficit

But the carrot you think is missing is one we made a conscious decision not to offer because we don't want the people it would attract to become members of the forum. There are plenty of forums that allow people to promote themselves and have "do follow" links. We don't want to be one of those forums. There's no deficit here. There was a very conscious choice made about what type of forum we wanted this place to be. We're not going to change the forum because you want the links to offer some SEO benefit for your site.

[Brian Altenhofel]

And considering this forum isn't likely related to your product or service, it would probably cause negative SEO issues if the links were do-follow.