Do Failures Really Prepare You Better To Succeed ?

[Harold Mansfield]

I was watching WSJR (Wall Street Journal Report ) this morning and Randall Jones, author of 'Worth' Magazine was speaking about the most successful people in America.

A couple of the things that stuck in my mind were...he mentioned that some of the most successful people in business had many failures before finding the road to success and resiliency was the main contributing trait.

The second was..."Ideas are a dime a dozen, execution is everything". He also pointed out that there are plenty people still making money in this recession and spoke about companies like Activision ('Guitar Hero', and Soon to be released 'DJ Hero') and Green Mountain Coffee Company that haven't skipped a beat.

It was good to hear, and just the pep talk I needed this morning. With all the bickering from Congress about the Stimulus not working ( even though it's only 120 days old, and not fully distributed) , and talk of gloom on the horizon, it was nice to hear reinforcement that success is really up to you and it's not the business, it's how you run it.

You can catch small video snippets from WSJR on MSNBC. (http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1178414803&play=1)

Not all of us can afford to have multiple failures. I know from experience as one who has tons of ideas and loves starting websites and blogs, that each time my execution gets better, and I am better at seeing potential failures ahead of time.

For every site that I have that makes even just a little income, I have 3 that were ill conceived, or not properly executed.

Q: Just curious how many failures you guys have had before you started making any money?

[vangogh]

First I agree with both ideas. I do think that failure is part of the road to success and also that ideas by themselves are not worth much. It's their execution that makes them worthwhile. A simple example. I have an idea. We should develop some kind of elixir so people can live forever. Now how much is that idea worth? Exactly nothing. If anyone could actually develop that elixir then how much would it be worth?

To answer your question, I think it depends a little on what kind of failure you mean. In my case before I started my current business, I had another similar business with a friend. We didn't do particularly well, mostly because neither of us had any business experience at the time. But in making that first attempt I was able to see what we had done wrong, what we had done right, and what we hadn't even tried, and apply all I'd learned to my current business. Failing with the first business was an important part of succeeding with the second.

However I wouldn't say I've only had one failure before I started making money. There have been lots of little failures along the way. I originally wrote my web copy one way and later rewrote it another way. I've changed the design of my site, I've tried a variety of ways to market myself, etc. There really are many smaller failures that happen all the time. You try something, see if it works, and learn what you can to make it better the next time.

I think with some of the people who try many failed businesses before finding the one that works some of it is simply a probability thing. Do something enough times and sooner or later one sticks. I also think in being willing to fail they're willing to take the risks they need to take in order to have a successful business. I mentioned taking chances (http://www.small-business-forum.net/planning-your-business/1515-should-small-businesses-take-more-chances.html) in another thread and I do think you have to be willing to risk something in order to succeed.

[Patrysha]

I have had many, many failures along the way, but not in the big failure type of way.

The site and newsletter that was started for childcare providers last nearly 2 years and never actually lost money, but it never really made much either. That was my first online business venture outside of writing for pay and if I knew then what I know now I might have made out well with it. I thought about going back to it, but know the target market will always be low revenue so I'd have to always be searching for volume...plus I am too far out of that childminder headspace to be an effective expert anymore.

I did well at freelance writing but never really made the breakthrough that would make the time I put into it worthwhile (though I did get some pretty cool clips that I'm proud of).

My easy results with radio site never really got off the ground, nor did my position selling advertising, starting relationship talk radio was a big mistake that didn't last long, my position as host/producer for Internet Based Moms Interviews never took off (but that wasn't my baby so I still got paid what was agreed, but never grew to where I thought it would when I started). Everlasting PR Plan was a bust...I may resurrect in the future when I figure out exactly why...

Lots of failures, but nothing tragic and all learning experiences...

I'm still learning...still trying new things...still going to fall flat on my face and get up again.

[jrobconsult]

One thing that was not mentioned was cutting your losses. Too many small business owners do not want to admit failure and it costs them everything. Also, you must have an open mind to understand why you failed. Many an owner has blamed everything and everyone but themselves.

[vangogh]

Very true and I think it all comes down to how well you learn from your mistakes. Many people will blame all their failure on others and never look internally.

After my first business failed I looked at what we had done and did my best to determine what we did well and what we didn't do well and what we didn't do at all. I kept what I thought was the good, changed the bad, and tried some new things. Today I keep repeating that process over and over. You're not always going to be right, but by constantly trying and tweaking you can improve.

[Harold Mansfield]

One thing that was not mentioned was cutting your losses. Too many small business owners do not want to admit failure and it costs them everything. Also, you must have an open mind to understand why you failed. Many an owner has blamed everything and everyone but themselves.

Yeah good point. When I was in the service industry, I saw a lot of people gush money in bars and restaurants, that were bad ideas in the first place, but then they just piled borrowed money on top of it and made it worse.

I know for me, I am pretty good at cutting my loses. I am constantly reconfiguring, and re evaluating and when I see something is a bust, or even better...if I don't think that I have the resources to make it successful...I'll strip it down and put the domain on the market in a heartbeat.

Out of my first 35 sites (mostly affiliate store fronts and blogs), I am keeping 10. I'm combining 2 on a different domain, selling a few as domains only, and the rest I'm just letting the domains drop since I don't think they have any resale value.

Do I consider the ones that aren't working failures ? Some are just bad ideas, and others just have a very limited earning potential..and then there are some that I was just bad at.

It still doesn't stop me from opening new ones, I do it all the time..at least 2 a month.
you live and learn and keep going.

[vangogh]

What can make cutting your losses hard is that sometimes you do have a good idea and are even doing most things right, but there's one or two things you're doing so poorly as to make everything seem unworkable. A couple of tweaks might be all it takes to turn that failure into success.

Also it's often the case where success is simply a matter of sticking to it. It can be a hard call at times to know when something needs you to give it more to succeed and when something isn't worth working at any longer. I'm not sure there's a definitive answer to know which is which.

[Harold Mansfield]

What can make cutting your losses hard is that sometimes you do have a good idea and are even doing most things right, but there's one or two things you're doing so poorly as to make everything seem unworkable. A couple of tweaks might be all it takes to turn that failure into success.

Also it's often the case where success is simply a matter of sticking to it. It can be a hard call at times to know when something needs you to give it more to succeed and when something isn't worth working at any longer. I'm not sure there's a definitive answer to know which is which.

A good example is, I had a political commentary blog (The Mansfield Herald) that I started up during the presidential election. It started doing well traffic wise, and picked up some significant links from reputable sources.

There were 2 problems that I didn't think through..first of all, getting images without comprising copyright was almost impossible since I didn't belong to a news service like AP, and the magazine theme I chose had to much space to fill and I couldn't keep up with so much original material....and also the name would have only been significant if I actually had a name as a political pundit After the election, I let it go, but I missed it because I loved blogging politics.

I tried another spin on it with Bouncing Bettys, which was actually a combination of ideas, but never managed to gain much traffic and the 2 ideas combined was not a good fit to target a demographic that I didn't know too well, it just never felt right..

So recently I took what was working with the first political blog, the humor from the second one, and nixed the things that were a hindrance to both and started up a 3rd that is easier to keep up and instead of trying to be everything to everybody, I decided to laser in on exactly what I wanted to do in the first place before the first one got away from me.

The other 2 are failures, but I learned. Had I continued to beat my head against the wall with either, I would have wasted time that would have never resulted in success

I will still keep the domains for resale (although the market for The Mansfield Herald are pretty slim...the cities of Mansfield OH, and TX, and Mansfield University), but I feel like the 3rd blog is more in tune to what I wanted to do and I like it a lot better.

[huggytree]

Some people are born with or have learned skills for business...and some havent yet...some never do...if i failed i wouldnt have tried again...i gave myself 1 shot...threw all my money in!....i would never had been able to save it up again for 15 more years...

of course i think its best not to have any failures.....but if you are learning the business skills your missing from each failure then i say 'hey! whatever works for you'

Im succeeding in one of the worst markets right now...houses...My gross sales is now ahead of last year....my new home business is down 75%, but my remodeling is up 100%...it proves you can succeed and grow during a recession....it doesnt matter what the product is..

maybe the car dealers would say they are hit worse...they probably are...

most people in business dont have any business sense!!...they are obsessed w/ being cheaper than the other guy. I just talked w/ an electrician who doesnt charge office time..all his bids are free..10-15 hours a week he does for free....bad business sense..i told him its a mistake...he doesnt believe me...will he fail? maybe,maybe not....but he's working 55 hours a week and getting paid for 40...i call that failure and no business sense.

[Evan]

I think you learn more from failures than you do successes. When you fail, you evaluate what went wrong and you try to improve on these faults. With successes, often time people feel they have a winning equation and don't easily adapt to change in the future. Also, if you succeed at first and then fail, due to a faulty equation today -- people think it was just the timing and keep repeating the error.

[orion_joel]

The point that if you keep trying enough things, you can keep failing and eventually something sticks reminds me of a tweet i read on twitter earlier today. "Even fools get a correct answer every so often." Now maybe not exact same idea, but it begs to the point that the more time you fail, the closer you get to a success. This may mean that you do not actually get to that success in the time you have, but in theory this should work.

Also how you fail and how often you fail actually has a lot to do with how you define failure. Potentially you are approaching points every single day in which you either succeed or fail. If you are selling, every quote has the potential to succeed or fail. Failure or success happens every moment of the day, the only different is the scale that you are working on, and the level of credibility that you give it.

[vangogh]

@eborg - good example, that really illustrates how failure leads to success.


I think you learn more from failures than you do successes.

I'd say that's a big part of the idea. When we succeed we don't really question it much and are likely to repeat what we did the next time out. That may or may not work though as the circumstances around us may have changed. When we fail we're forced to understand why we failed and in doing so gain a better understanding of what will work next time whether conditions are the same or not.

It's how we are as human beings. We learn from our mistakes.


Even fools get a correct answer every so often.

I think that's a big part of the idea too. Many of the most successful people did keep trying as many ideas as they could until one stuck and turned them into multi-millionaires.

Good point about the scale of the failure. I think people reading the subject of this thread might see this only in terms of the large scale failures, but it really does apply to all the little things as well. We learn from our mistakes. You try something and if it doesn't work seek to understand why and try again. We're just more motivated to learn after a mistake than we are after a success.

[Harold Mansfield]

.... Potentially you are approaching points every single day in which you either succeed or fail. If you are selling, every quote has the potential to succeed or fail. Failure or success happens every moment of the day, the only different is the scale that you are working on, and the level of credibility that you give it.

I make adjustments all the time in ad placement, affiliate programs, linking, and just about everything else.
One that sticks in my mind was a recent decision to change ads on one site, to try and capture more clicks from what I thought was the majority of my audience.

It failed miserably and resulted in a 70% decrease in click throughs on that particular ad spot for the month.
I learned that particular spot is probably at maximum potential and to leave it alone.

[KristineS]

I think a lot of it is attitude. When something fails you may need to take a day or two to mourn the loss, but then you have to start dissecting, figuring out what went wrong, what went right and what you'll try next. A lot of people, I used to be one of them, take something not working out too personally. It is an all or nothing sort of world. The trick is to remember that just because this one thing didn't work, doesn't mean that the next thing you try won't work. If you learn from the experience and try to make different mistakes the next time, eventually you'll get to where you want to be.

[Vivid Color Zack]

I guess we had 3 or 4.

Initially tried to start a Real Estate magazine... failed. Learned a lot about marketing.

Tried to start a printing company - didn't know anything - learned a lot about running a business.

Worked at best buy, went to college, learned that I hated having a JOB

Started a marketing firm - couldn't compete with the big guys - got shorted almost 20 grand by our biggest client, closed down... gave up... worked for an airplane painting company briefly... got back out of debt.

Started Vivid Color - took everything I've learned and we've been going hard and I think this one is going to work out :)

Oh in the process somewhere started another site that focused on a specific paper only offered by one place in the US but we got sued and I had to throw away a lot of money that I invested in that site/building up resources for that site... lame :(

I think the most important thing I've learned has been never become complacent. Always expect the worst possible result and prepare for it. Then when something only half as bad happens you are relieved :)

[billbenson]

Maybe you learn from failures or maybe you quit. I would say first time success's hurt you more than failures help you. You probably got lucky. When you don't have that luck the second time around, you probably are lost.

[vangogh]

I think the most important thing I've learned has been never become complacent.

That's a good point. Failure or maybe lack of success can keep you hungry. If you haven't made it yet you might be willing to work harder. Of course you may quit too, but in a sense that's not necessarily bad since it might be an indication you'd be better served working for someone else. Some people do prefer the security of a steady check and not thinking about business all the time.

Bill I don't think everyone automatically gains from failing. I agree some people will quit, though like I mentioned that can still ultimately be a good thing for them. I think the ideas in this thread are more for the people who have the drive and won't quit. In that case failing helps you learn how to do better next time.

We all learn from experience. Not just business, but life in general. Sometimes we experience success and other times failure and we can learn from both.

[orion_joel]

Another thing that is far to common, is people who fail because they give up. Sometimes patience in attempting to make things work, is the one thing that you need to work on is being able to hold things together until you get over that initial starting out phase. Something i read suggests you should look to give something at least 13 months to see if it is going to work out or not.

Maybe giving something 13 months means a good deal invested in hoping something will work. However i think that looking at it this way will give you more reason to do better research. To get more information about what costs are involved. And better plan your approach. Also 13 months is a reasonable time to commit, a few months is one thing, but over a year is showing some initial commitment.

Many people fail to quickly. they try a few things, and go this is not working and just walk away. Can you imagine how different the world would be if we were born this way. How many times did you try to walk and fail before getting it. Imagine if you gave up after only trying half a dozen times. What about if some of the best chefs in the world had decided after trying to cool a few times they could not cook. Or if Edison gave up after trying only a few ideas for the light bulb.

What success takes is perseverance, and failure is part of perseverance. If everyone could remember just what sort of perseverance it took to learn to walk and apply this to whatever pursuit they choose, the world would be a very different place. This is the thing though every single one of us knows what it takes to succeed at something through continually trial and error, we were born able to do it, we just tend to forget what it takes along the way.

[vangogh]

What success takes is perseverance, and failure is part of perseverance.

That's definitely a big part of it. I'm not sure you have to specifically think 13 months as opposed to 12 or 14 months, but I agree that sticking to it and not giving up is a big part of success and I think part of why perseverance works is that over time we do make mistakes and do learn from those mistakes.

You have to expect that you aren't going to get everything right the first time and be prepared to fail at times.

[Vivid Color Zack]

Knowing when to give up and move on is important too though. Being persistent with a lost cause is only going to hurt you.

I really think moving on is the hardest thing to do. You've dumped hundreds or thousands of hours and money into something you hoped would grow. Something you KNEW would grow. When it falls through it's a big kick in the teeth... But if you won't accept failure at some point you are just going to be the one that suffers.

If I had been successful with our first attempt at our little real estate magazine I probably would have assumed everything would be that easy in life. Maybe I wouldn't have been willing to put in the work necessary in my other ventures. Maybe I'd be working at best buy still like I was in high school, haha.

[vangogh]

Absolutely. And it can be really tough to know whether you should be persistent with an idea or move on the next one. Sometimes I think that comes down to a personal choice more than anything else, though sometimes you can figure out you do have a good idea poorly implemented or a bad idea you should move away from.

[orion_joel]

I personally do not see any big difference between 12, 13 and 14 months either. However that was the figure that i read in an article that was discussing the success and failure of Venture capital funded businesses. There was something about the number of companies that made it into the 13 month increased as opposed to those that let it go before.

[vangogh]

Oh that makes sense about the 13 months then. I guess it was some kind of statistical analysis where x% of companies fail before 13 months, etc. I was wondering why they chose that number instead of a year.

Did it say companies that made it into the 13th month? That could have been phrased as companies that survived their first year and it would have been the same thing.