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chrisb514
06-22-2009, 12:09 AM
Hello everyone,

I'm looking to start a new business selling sports merchandise and apparel. I am currently in the field of construction and recently received a dramatic pay decrease and as I think about it more and more I am not sure is this the career for me long term. I have very little experience in running a small business. So, I was hoping many of you could provide me with some advice on where to begin. I am in the process of doing research on running my own business. Looking to take some courses maybe. A big concern of mine is I don't have much money to get started and looking for alternative options to start this business venture. I am looking for any advice, tips, hints, warnings, etc. that might help make this easier. I would like to thank all of you in advance for taking the time out to help me. I really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Chris

dynocat
06-22-2009, 01:00 AM
Congratulations! Whether or not you carry it out, checking our your options for self employment is always worthwhile.

Are you considering an online store you could run part time while you're still working? Or are you thinking of a brick and mortar store?

With your pay increase, could you set aside a certain amount for a few months while you're doing your research, courses, etc.?

If you're looking to sell merchandise, you might consider getting manufacturers who drop ship so you don't have to invest in inventory. You already have the line of products so you'd could investigate the companies who offer that.

I'm sure others will offer more suggestions. I just happened to get here first. :)

Best of luck to you.

GBlack
06-22-2009, 06:40 AM
Chris,

My recommendation is to immediately change your thinking from what you don't have to what you do have. That will put you in an action mindset. Eventually you will need a website. No money? Go to homestead.com. (there are others, this just happens to be one I chose and like-I don't get any referral fee from them) You can create a website for $0 for 30 days to get yourself started. Sounds like you will need ecommerce functionality that may be beyond Homestead's capabilitities but I just wanted you to know there are plenty of "try before you buy" resources out there that will allow you to get your business off the ground. Good luck.

vangogh
06-22-2009, 12:36 PM
Chris I'll ask if you're looking to open a brick and mortar store or an online store. With a brick and mortar store you are going to have to invest money into the store and the inventory and staff. Online you can set up a store that sells affiliate products or work with a drop shipper. Your costs would essentially be whatever you spend to get the site up and running.

Selling affiliate products means you'd be pointing people to other sites that actually sell the merchandise and you'd make a commission on each sale or lead.

Selling through a drop shipper would mean you are selling the merchandise directly through your site, but the drop shipper is holding the inventory and dealing with all the shipping. The drop shipper naturally takes a significant portion of the sale.

You may decide one of the two options works best at first. You won't make as much money selling your own products, but you won't need to invest as much to get started. You could try one of the above and later as you have more money to invest you can switch to selling your own products.

KristineS
06-22-2009, 12:48 PM
First of all, good for you that you're working to learn and doing your research. A lot of people who are starting out forget that step and have issues as a result.

If it were me, I'd start out with something online. Your reach would be greater when it comes to customers, and your start up costs could be smaller. It is also something you could do on the side while you work a day job until you get to the point where you're making enough money to support yourself.

There are sites that can help you set up a basic store for a reasonable fee and a percentage of the sales. If you don't have a lot of coding knowledge, this might be a good avenue to take.

KarenB
06-23-2009, 10:57 AM
I had the same question as everyone else. Brick-and-mortar or online? I think that would be where to begin.

Also, do you have one particular supplier in mind or would you use a wide range of manufacturers depending on the products you wish to sell?

Do you have a niche market in the sporting arena, or are you selling everything from skateboards to fishing lures? All of those are sports, so I would imagine you have an idea of how you would narrow it down to one specific market.

If you are aiming at an online business, a good idea is to research your existing competitors' websites and blogs. Make up your mind about the ones you like and the ones you don't like. See who is successful and who isn't. Model yourself after the successful ones (but not to the letter) in terms of how they market themselves, what they are doing right and what they are doing wrong.

In terms of the rest of the stuff from bookkeeping to customer service to picking your 'brand name', those are things that you will need to do a LOT of research on before you plunge in.

Don't expect to make much money in the first year unless you already have a presence in the marketplace and can be found easily. Again, this depends on whether you are selling online or from an actual brick-and-mortar store.

There are so many variables that you need to think about.

Karen

Bill Fallow
06-29-2009, 10:28 PM
Hi Chris,

As the others suggested, starting an online store might be a better option for getting started without much capital. Plus, there's a ton of drop shippers for sports merchandise and apparel. One thing you'll want to consider though, is that you might want to think on ways to make yourself "unique" with what you're offering, considering that "sports merchandise" is a highly competitive niche.

The plus side of going online is the ease of start up and the low initial costs. The downside is that you're competing with everyone else to be seen, so you'll have to learn some search engine optimization tactics to bring in the visitors.

The obvious downsides of a brick and mortar storefront are the overhead costs, but if you live in an area where no one is covering sports apparel and merchandise, it would be easy to get the corner on the market...

You mentioned that you were researching information about small businesses, and were thinking about taking courses. Bravo! There's no better way to give yourself the tools for success than by having the motivation to educate yourself! Have you used Acey Gaspard's free resources for small businesses? There's a bunch of resources designed specially for people starting small businesses that I found quite helpful. Her website is: atouchofbusiness.com

As far as other useful tips I can offer:

Don't waste money having "gurus" teach you how to start your business. All the information you need is out there, free.

Don't spend all of your money with paid marketing. There's a ton of guerrilla tactics that will help spread the word that can be done for free and will really help boost your sales. Think article writing, branding yourself as the local "sports expert" for newspaper articles and interviews, networking with your community and the other small businesses to help each other out, etc.

Do spend more time on your business plan than on your office furniture if you go brick and mortar. (You wouldn't believe the number of people I've seen nearly bankrupt themselves buying the "perfect office picture" when they don't even have clientele!)

Hope that helps,

Bill

Patrysha
06-30-2009, 12:30 AM
Don't waste money having "gurus" teach you how to start your business. All the information you need is out there, free.

Don't spend all of your money with paid marketing. There's a ton of guerrilla tactics that will help spread the word that can be done for free and will really help boost your sales. Think article writing, branding yourself as the local "sports expert" for newspaper articles and interviews, networking with your community and the other small businesses to help each other out, etc.

Do spend more time on your business plan than on your office furniture if you go brick and mortar. (You wouldn't believe the number of people I've seen nearly bankrupt themselves buying the "perfect office picture" when they don't even have clientele!)

Hope that helps,

Bill

Points two and three I agree with absolutely...

But I only sort of agree with the first point. While I agree going after the knowledge of self proclaimed gurus is folly, trying to do everything on your own is not the answer. You will likely spend less and get ahead faster if you hire professionals who can help you judiciously. Due your due diligence and learn enough that you can translate some industry jargon, but trying to be the chief cook and bottle washer is making it harder than it has to be.

Outsource bookkeeping if that is not your forte, hire someone to coach or consult with you on marketing if you can, find a good printer...create a team around you that can support you...if you aren't planning on building websites for a living - find someone who can do a great job at a website designed with marketing in mind.

You can do it economically without doing it alone...

Spider
06-30-2009, 11:33 AM
My advise is - don't do it yet!

Yes, Chris, I am a business coach - one of those chaps that has been recommended by a previous poster - but I still say you are putting the cart before the horse.

Let me put this in construction terms because you and I are both from this industry, Chris. If a carpenter came to you and asked for a job (assuming you are in a position to hire him) and told you he hasn't actually done any caprentry work but has studied carpentry from books and internet courses, would you hire him? I doubt it!

Studying is certainly recommended, but before venturing into the world of business, I would advise you to get some hands-on experience - not only in the industry in which you will start your business but also in running a business.

1. If sports merchandise and apparel is your chosen business then learn as much as you can about sports merchandise and apparel - the making of it, the selling of it, etc.

2. Get a job in a sports merchandise and apparel store and learn to deal with this type of public - learn their needs, wants, desires, foibles - become one with them.

3. As soon as possible, get into a management position with a sports merchandise and apparel store so you can learn how to manage and run such an enterprise, including how to hire and fire staff, how to buy goods, how to display them, etc.

4. While this is going on, save like crazy. You want to be in a position to start your business with your own money. If you start a business with no money of your own and all on borrowed money, you don't have a business - you have another job - with a more demanding boss (the banker) than you have ever had before.


I know it is a great temptation to want to rush into it. The internet makes everything so fast, these days. It also makes failing faster, too! Do it right, and you will have a business for life.

huggytree
07-01-2009, 09:27 PM
business courses are worthless

you want to start a business in something you dont do........think about this statement!.. you should get a job at a sports store...learn the business

you need money to start a business...lots of it...tens of thousands....where is your stock going to come from? im assuming this is an internet business, since a brick/morter store would cost $100,000+ to get going

i would recommend against any new business during this recession...heard today consumer confidence is down 5.5%....were not at the bottom yet....

to start a business you need:

1. have money saved(supposed to have 1 years salary)
2. know the business your going to start...know the ups/downs, how its done
3. have a unique idea (cheap is not a unique idea)

most people fail in business....odds are you will too.....its not something you jump into..its something you plan and think about for years....the more you plan the better the odds are you will succeed....

decide what you want to do, learn the business, save your money, think about how you will run that type of business better...plan,plan,plan

Evan
07-02-2009, 08:59 PM
you want to start a business in something you dont do........think about this statement!.. you should get a job at a sports store...learn the business

I agree with this very much. Starting a business in something you don't know is very risky. If you don't have the financing, and say even getting a loan was feasible -- you're going to have a tough sell with no experience.

That isn't to say you can't do it. But the risk is higher, and you'll have to analyze your every move.

Spider
07-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Thank you for agreeing with me. Getting a job in whatever you plan to do as a business means you can gain experience and have someone else pay you to get it! Yet, there is more to it than that, which is what I tried to point out in my post.

You must not only get experience in the work but you need to get experience in running a business. Plus, you need to gain knowledge of the products and you need to learn about business as a topic. This is where business courses are very valuable. They cover such things as business planning, rudimenatry accounting, bookkeeping, economics, rules regarding employment and hiring, discrimination laws, pricing, stockkeeping, and so on.

Getting a job in the business first to gain experience is only one leg of a three-legged stool. The other two legs are product knowledge and business knowledge. Take away any leg and the stool will fall over!

Evan
07-05-2009, 11:36 PM
Getting a job in the business first to gain experience is only one leg of a three-legged stool. The other two legs are product knowledge and business knowledge. Take away any leg and the stool will fall over!

Experience should get him the "second leg" of product knowledge.

Business knowledge often is either through formal education, or just running the business and learning from very poor decisions. Both can be costly, though you feel better with the former than the latter!

Dan Furman
07-09-2009, 08:45 PM
I disagree with getting the job. I would never tell a would-be entrepreneur to get a new job (and then move into management? Perhaps taking years?... sorry Spider, but that's soul-crushing advice.)

Here's what you *can* do (and it's simple, too) - keep your job for now, go online, buy some of the merchandise you want to sell wholesale, and hit the flea market on the weekend. Note what sells, and what doesn't (and why). Talk to the people buying. Learn. This won't cost you very much, and it won't take too much time.

Then go where that leads you. It may lead to owning a store, it may lead to distributing, it may lead to drop shipping, and it may lead to something entirely different (like freelance programming somehow led me to copywriting). Good luck!!

Spider
07-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Great post, Dan! (I don't agree with you, entirely, but it's a great post, nonetheless! :D)

So, what's great about the post? It offers another option for a would-be entrepreneur. Chris - who posted once about 4 weeks ago and never came back - says that he has no experience of owning his own business, suggests that he has never worked in retail or in sales, nor in sports merchandise, and admits he has no money. I personally feel that with such a background he would have great difficulty learning anything about business from selling things at a flea market. For someone who has business experience, though, your flea market idea would give them exposure to the products and the potential buying public. With prior experience, your suggestion, Dan, would serve a purpose and give a potential entrepreneur confidence in his decision. For someone who was already employed in this business and knew the products, buying and selling at a fleamarket would be very helpful, I think.

The fact that my suggestion would take years is one of its better points, I feel. I believe your fast-track, Dan, would again serve someone with business experience and be harmful for someone with no experience. Mastery doesn't come from doing 4,000 things - it comes from doing one thing 4,000 times. Before one starts their own business, I suggest it's a good idea to know something about what you intend to do. A few weekends at the flea market does not compare to several years fulltime employment in an established business.

vangogh
07-10-2009, 04:32 PM
I have to agree with Dan here. First the original post never once said he had no experience in sports merchandise. All he said was he had no experience in running his own business. A job will never give you that experience. Now there's nothing in the OP to indicate he has experience in sports merchandise, but again there's nothing there to indicate he doesn't either. Let's not make assumptions one way or the other.


he has no experience of owning his own business, suggests that he has never worked in retail or in sales, nor in sports merchandise

No. It only suggests he's never run his own business. The day before I started my business I would have said I have no experience running my own business, yet I did work many retail and sales oriented jobs.

As someone who's worked a lot of jobs prior to running my own business, I can honestly say I learned more about how to run a business in the first week of running a business than I did in all the years I worked for someone else. I may have learned about some of the specific industries I worked in, but not about running a business. Small business owners wear so many hats it's not reasonable to think you're going to get jobs in all the disciplines you'll perform daily.

How many people here have held jobs as accountant, marketer, sales person, copywriter, and advertising executive. Not to mention all the various jobs that would go into your specific industry if it's not one of the above. You might have held one of those jobs, but not all of them.

In my own case I had never held a job in a web design and development prior to starting my business. The only person I've ever done that for is me. In fact prior to my first paying job, I had built exactly one website. It was a 3 page site I built in a couple of days for a class assignment. That's not to say I didn't know anything about developing sites at the time, but it mostly came from reading books and experimenting after my day job. Most of the learning I've done in regards to web design and development has come after I went into business. I knew just enough in the beginning to be able to charge for my work.

Running a business and being employed by a business are completely different things. One doesn't necessarily give you experience in the other. I agree it would be a good idea to know something about the industry you want to start a business around, but it's not 100% necessary. Many people have built successful businesses in industries they knew nothing about until they went into business. You can learn a lot about an industry by researching it.

One more point about something the OP said


A big concern of mine is I don't have much money to get started and looking for alternative options to start this business venture.

Notice the part about alternative options. In my first response in this thread I suggested trying to sell either affiliate products or working with a drop shipper. In either case your start up costs are so low as to be negligible. $100 - $200 would be enough to get you going. With so little money up front there really isn't any risk. And you'd be in business and you could work as little or as much as you wanted. From there you could begin learning most everything you'd eventually need to own and operate a physical store (other than those specific things you could only learn by actually having that store).

It's part of the beauty of the internet. You can be in business very quickly. That doesn't mean you'll be successful quickly, but you can be up and running quickly and learn from experience.

Spider
07-10-2009, 09:00 PM
Nobody said it couldn't be done in this fashion, VG. Obviously it can, and I don't suppose you are the only person who ever started a business with little knowledge and no experience. I applaud you for your success. I just do not feel it is a course of action that can be recommended.

I wonder how many people who started without the knowledge, experience and money to be successful are still in business five years later compared to the number who had knowledge, experience and money when they started. Obviously some are, but I put it to you that the no knoweldge/no experience group would suffer a higher rate of failure that the knowledgeable/experienced group.

Further, I distinguish between being self-employed and owning and running a business. Having no knowledge, no experience and no money does lend itself to self-employment for the entrepreneurial, where business can be learned by trial and error, but I know of no substantial business that started in this fashion.

When I started my business (not the current one) that grew to a good size (30+ employees, annual sales in the millions), I had been working in the industry for 20 years and had held a management position for 5 years, had financial, sales and management experience for 10 years prior to that, and had money to finance the startup myself. It's probably little wonder that I favor starting a business from a position of strength, and taking the time to build that strength.

vangogh
07-10-2009, 09:39 PM
All good points. I guess all I was trying to say was that there's more than one way to success. Sounds like you agree with that as well. I think it would come down to the type of business being started and also the personality of the individual starting the business.

I took the original poster as someone who was more looking to get away from an existing job without much money to invest in a new business. My thoughts led me to think an online business might be a good choice since it could be started while still holding onto the day job.

I do agree that starting a business where you expect to have employees, etc is much different than working for yourself out of your home office. If I were looking to start a larger business I would want to know something about the industry and have some kind of experience whether industry specific or general business specific. I still don't think you have to have industry specific experience to start a business. You could be the business person who's able to hire the right industry people.

One thing I've always held is that the more knowledge you have about something, the better you'll be at that something. Kind of supports your argument. I think we're more in disagreement about where that knowledge comes from. I think it can come from anywhere and even be learned on the job. I would agree it's better to have the experience prior to starting the business, but I don't think it's necessary.

Dan Furman
07-11-2009, 12:40 AM
When I started my business (not the current one) that grew to a good size (30+ employees, annual sales in the millions), I had been working in the industry for 20 years and had held a management position for 5 years, had financial, sales and management experience for 10 years prior to that, and had money to finance the startup myself. It's probably little wonder that I favor starting a business from a position of strength, and taking the time to build that strength.

Never gonna fly today, Spider. Right or wrong, and for better or worse, things move a lot faster than that now. I mean, I'm not saying getting 20 years experience won't work, but I am saying I'd never recommend that to anyone. Wait 20 years??? In 2009?? No chance.

Right now, it's possible for me to barge right in there and put myself in front of a company in China. Me... in my little basement office, sitting here unshaven, in my shorts and t-shirt, can compete with anyone in my industry. ANYONE. Literally, it'll take me twenty minutes to do it, too. If that.

The OP could, with the power of the internet, get products at prices someone would have taken YEARS to get years ago. What took years of experience and handshakes 30 years ago takes 4 mouse clicks today. I'm not sure if that's bad or good, but there's no denying it's true.

But even leaving that out, I completely believe that one could, say, learn to run a store starting at the flea market. The same way Apple somehow started in a garage.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I respect your viewpoint, and I like your business ethics (a lot), but telling someone to go get a job and work their way into management before staring a business is not the advice I'd give a would-be entrepreneur.

Spider
07-11-2009, 09:37 AM
There certainly is more than one way to success, VG, although I think there are fewer ways to any one particular success than might be supposed. That is to say, 20 people could start out in the same general direction, approaching their goals in 20 different ways, all arriving eventually at "success." Each person's success would be different. But if 20 people set out with exactly the same specific goals, all those that reach that "success" would have had to get there in very similar ways.

Therefore, one could start a business with a strict and specific business plan and work diligently towards achieving that goal, or one could start a business with the intention of doing well and take opportunities as they arise. I wouldn't put the odds in favor of one or the other.

Spider
07-11-2009, 10:13 AM
Several points for Dan: One doesn't *wait* for 20 years. I wasn't recommending that. I didn't start out intending to start my own business and *waited* 20 years to do it. In fact, the decision to start my own business was made overnight, after I made a joke and someone asked if I was serious. But I was able to do that *because* I had 20 years in the business on which to base a decision.

Secondly, we can move information around a lot faster nowadays but we cannot learn that information any faster. It still takes as long as it ever did to learn how to do something.

(Added) And longer still to become good at it.

I think it is too easy to delude ourselves as to the efficacy of the internet. We have seen in these forum of experienced people getting ripped off by sharpsters appearing to be legitimate customers. As to your comparison of 30 years to 4 mouse clicks, I do deny it. It's a myth, Dan. Good business sense will still prevail and due diligence is still a necessity.

We must not get caught up in the euphoria. That Apple started in Steve Job's garage makes for a great story, except that it's not true. But It could have happened like that, just as it happened for Phil Knight and Nike (replace 'garage' with 'back of his truck.')

Dan Furman
07-11-2009, 11:38 AM
Several points for Dan: One doesn't *wait* for 20 years. I wasn't recommending that. I didn't start out intending to start my own business and *waited* 20 years to do it. In fact, the decision to start my own business was made overnight, after I made a joke and someone asked if I was serious. But I was able to do that *because* I had 20 years in the business on which to base a decision.


But you see, by recommending getting a job, moving to management, and then bringing up your own experience, you kind of are telling someone who wants to start a business to wait.

I'm not saying waiting is always bad, but there's a point where it gets silly. Especially talking about the types of buisnesses most in this forum discuss (sole proprietor, entrepreneur, garage type stuff.)


Secondly, we can move information around a lot faster nowadays but we cannot learn that information any faster. It still takes as long as it ever did to learn how to do something.


That's really not true in terms of business today, if you take the learning process as a whole. For example, "learn how to find goods and export from China" might have taken someone years to accomplish earlier.

Learning how to split test copy may have taken weeks/months with a direct mail campaign years ago. Now it may only take hours.

Yes, learning to interpret the results isn't any faster, but really, that's almost the smallest part of the equation, especially when the data is so readily available.


I think it is too easy to delude ourselves as to the efficacy of the internet. We have seen in these forum of experienced people getting ripped off by sharpsters appearing to be legitimate customers. As to your comparison of 30 years to 4 mouse clicks, I do deny it. It's a myth, Dan. Good business sense will still prevail and due diligence is still a necessity.

You are confusing good business sense (in which we agree) with the amazing power of the tools at hand. They are not either/or. Of course good business sense matters.

Secondly, it's NOT a myth. I posted a great example of something that tooks years of experience in days past that is now done almost instantly - by anyone. You can scoff at it and deny it if you wish, but it exists.

Now I'm not saying the internet totally replaces experience in all cases - it doesn't. There will be hundreds of examples where it doesn't, in fact. But in a lot of ways, it has taken many of the barriers to entry (which required experience) and smashed them.

Your experience worked for you, but I'll bet anything that most businesses out there did not start until after they had 20 years corporate experience and money. Nor would most even want to - for most, when that entrepreneural bug bites, it bites hard, and the itch needs to be scratched.


We must not get caught up in the euphoria. That Apple started in Steve Job's garage makes for a great story, except that it's not true. But It could have happened like that, just as it happened for Phil Knight and Nike (replace 'garage' with 'back of his truck.')

They did start by hand-building computers in a garage. This isn't important to our discussion, but the fact is, they did.

Spider
07-11-2009, 03:17 PM
I don't consider a period learning, developing skills, gaining experience, building financial reserves, as "waiting." Waiting, to me, is sitting around doing nothing except wait for time to pass. You wait for a bus, wait for a taxi, wait for someone to deliver an essential component all else having been completed. I would not advise anyone to *wait" to start a business. I would - and do - advise them to develop the necessary skills and build the resources that would give them a better chance of succeeding. When they know what they are doing and have the resources is the time to start a business.

If all one wants to do is be self-employed, optimism may be all that is needed. Starting a business that is going to grow and endure takes more than that, in my opinion. Even Jobs and Wozniak had been "in the business" tinkering with hardware and software and ardently reading Popular Mechanics and Popular Electronics for years prior to 1976. Jobs and Wozniak both had jobs in the industry prior to starting their own company (Hewlett Packard and Atari) Even they began with experience in an industry so new that hardly anyone had any real experience of it.

Every time someone puts forward a business prodigy to "prove" that a huge business success can be achieved starting with nothing, a little digging usually discovers that the "nothing" they started with is really quite substantial.

I believe that to encourage a would-be entrepreneur to jump into starting a business with little or no preparation is somewhat irresponsible.

Dan Furman
07-11-2009, 11:18 PM
I believe that to encourage a would-be entrepreneur to jump into starting a business with little or no preparation is somewhat irresponsible.

Our OP with the apparal? I think not. I think my advice was spot on. I would think that would be his time to learn, develop skills, etc.

Editing my reply here... I had a long, detailed post, but I re-read it and decided we're bordering on getting snippy, which I'd prefer not to do. We're not going to convince each other of anything, so I'd rather just say we're coming from two different worlds. We did this once before already, anyway. In terms of starting a business, you think my advice is irresponsible. That's fine. I think yours is outdated and impractical for the type of entrepreneur that generally frequents this board. That's fine, too. The people reading can decide what they find most useful (or not - choice is good.) But our positions are pretty clear.

Spider
07-12-2009, 12:36 AM
I'm glad we aren't going to "get snippy," Dan. You're a good sort.

But you have convinced me of one thing - that you are wrong!

[Frederick ducks and scampers off!] :D

Dan Furman
07-12-2009, 02:55 AM
I'm glad we aren't going to "get snippy," Dan. You're a good sort.

But you have convinced me of one thing - that you are wrong!

[Frederick ducks and scampers off!] :D

heh heh - you're ok too :)

To be honest, I think a lot of times we come from totally different angles, shaped by our personal experiences.

I didn't have the corporate experience / money / etc. I just wanted to work for myself. I didn't have the time to waste, either - I needed to start making money ASAP. So my advice is usually given with that type of entrepreneur in mind - the kitchen table "I want to work for myself" person, who's going to move forward no matter what anyone says.

Basically, I want to get this person to a sale asap. Once you make a sale or three, it gets really addicting, and you start to learn. Because, having been there a few times, and knowing plenty of others who have as well, I know this type of person is going to go for it, no matter what. They aren't going to wait. They'll learn as they go.


I think a lot of your advice is given from your perspective - where when you started, you had real solid experience, probably a rolodex full of contacts, and some money. You were patient and reasoned. In addition, I'll bet "working for yourself" probably wasn't the real goal - building a company was (just guessing from some of what you've said here). That's a different mindset than just wanting to be self employed.

I would liken it to reading one of Harvey Mackay's books - he's got great advice, and a sound business mind, but he also was CEO of an envelope company at 25. I was usually stoned at 25 (I think). While I like his overall philosphy, it's sometimes hard for me to relate. Just like it's hard for you to relate to someone who'd just willingly dive in without much experience.

I think both points are useful to readers, though.

Spider
07-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Absolutely!

vangogh
07-12-2009, 02:02 PM
I go away for a day and look at all the discussion I missed.

Frederick I think we both agree that there are different roads to success and at the same time even on those different roads, those who successfully navigate them to the end will have done many similar things along the way. I hope that makes sense.

I think all three of us (Yourself, Dan, and I) all agree that the more you know about and understand your industry and business and marketing in general the greater your chance of success. Where I think we're differing is in where you get that knowledge and understanding.

I shouldn't speak for Dan, though I'm pretty sure he agrees with me that you can gain most of the knowledge you need while owning and operating your business as opposed to having to work for someone else.

As far as the internet and what it can do in many ways it does come down to how fast you can gather information and learn. You still need good business sense and understanding, but you can learn what works and what doesn't so much faster. For example say you're thinking of developing a new product. In the past you might do some research, develop your product, acquire financing if necessary, begin manufacturing, start marketing etc. Your product though may or may not be one that resonates with real people and after spending all that time and money you may be left with a product no one wants.

Now you're still going to need to do all those things today, but consider that before you even begin developing the product you can write a short ebook or white paper on the topic of your product, run a short AdWords campaign to see if people are actually interested by how often they click and how many copies of your ebook are downloaded. You can add in a feedback loop to get people to tell you what they think of your idea. Those people will tell you what's wrong about your idea, what's right, and offer suggestions. You can take that info and bake it right into your product. You'll end up with a product much more likely to succeed when it's ready and you'll have built a list of potential customers. You'll also know if the product is a dud before you've even begun putting in the time and money for development.

Another thought is how you can use social media. In the past to promote something you might be buying advertising across a variety of media, which costs money. Most of us here can't afford to buy an ad during prime time in order to reach millions of people. But we can give something a push in social media to our network and through others sharing the information with their network and so on we can potentially reach those same millions for $0. Information spreads very fast online.

In general the speed at which you can find information is so much faster now that you really can learn faster. I think Dan and I also agree that you'll learn even faster by doing and that running your own business is more doing than working for someone else.

Spider
07-13-2009, 09:25 AM
I agree that learning about and testing advertising response and the like will be quicker with the internet than offline, but that applies only to internet advertising. How well and what results you will get from direct mail, print ads and radio/tv ads can only be learned by placing DM, print, radio and tv ads. And that takes as long as it always has.

But I was really referring to learning *how* to do whatever one is going to do in one's business. And, more than that - learning how to do it well.

If one is employed and trained by a skilled operative, it is probable that the outcome will be a more capable business operator than if they try and learn by themselves. Over recent months, I have tried on three separate occasions to encourage someone who was starting in business and in each case they could not deliver. Not that I had high expectations - my "hiring" them was more to help them start than any great need I had for their work. It became painfully obvious that they just did not know what was required to get the job done.

Sure, they might go on and learn by trial and error. Yet they damaged their reputation before they even started - I'm sure not all customers would be as tolerant as I was. Without knowledgeable guidance, who knows how long it will take them to learn to do it right - if they ever do.

On-the-job training is fine - if you have someone to learn from.

vangogh
07-13-2009, 11:06 AM
Frederick my point with the speed of the internet wasn't just to point out that it's faster. The point was to show how the quickness which you could get the information could help shape your business. You can learn quickly if you have a marketable idea and you can gain quick feedback to help you tailor your product/service to your market. You can still advertise offline like always after, but the speed of the internet can still save you time and money even if you later plan all your marketing offline.

I was just trying to point out that the internet doesn't hinder learning in general. There's a lot to be said for having access to more information and being able to access it much faster. I think that puts more responsibility on each of us to determine what information to trust, but I see that as something good as well.

When it comes to specialized skills I agree it helps to have practical experience. I wouldn't suggest someone start advertising their carpentry services unless they actually knew carpentry. Now someone could learn carpentry on their own in their spare time, but sure working for others as a carpenter for a few years would probably be the best way to gain that experience.

However two things to keep in mind. Someone coming to this forum asking about starting a carpentry business likely already had those skills. If they didn't I think we'd all tell that person that's where they needed to start, but most of the people who come here wanting to start a business requiring a specific skill set will most of the time already possess that skill set.

In the particular case of this thread the OP is looking to start a business that really doesn't require a specific skill set. Sure there are things someone who's been working in retail or working specifically with sports merchandise will know that someone new to the field won't. But for the most part those things can be picked up along the way while running a business. They aren't so specialized that you'd gain so much more working for someone else as you would for yourself.

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07-15-2009, 06:09 AM
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