Music Management and Streaming Music Services

[Harold Mansfield]

For years I've been using iTunes faithfully and have one iPod touch that I've had for years that I never use anymore.
However IMO using iTunes as a music manager is a complete nightmare and it has always been but there weren't many options before.

At the moment I have all my music backed up and duplicated all over the place. iTunes, Google Play, Amazon Music, Plex, Groove Music (formerly XBOX Music, formerly Zune Music), and the various cloud accounts that those services come with, and my own WD cloud server.

Obviously with the exception of my own server it is ridiculous to have this daisy chain of one thing backing up to another, backing up to another but it's the only way to have all of my music on every device. (Android Phone, XBOX (where the good sound system is connected), 2 Windows Computers, & Amazon devices). And maybe I don't completely trust any of them and want to make sure I have multiple back ups.

I thought Plex would be an all in one solution since there are apps for it on everything, but it really doesn't seem very stable to me and I can't get the remote access to work properly and I'm tired of trying.

I've also been testing a trial of the Google Play Music service (after resisting paying for a streaming music service), and to be honest the fact that it comes with You Tube Red, and (new) You Tube Music makes it a pretty awesome deal. Especially now that these services are better at curating the kind of music I listen to most. Still not sure if I'm going to pay for it though.

So, I'm wondering what some of you use, why, and how happy you are with the set up or service that you have to access your music when and where ever you want.

[vangogh]

Most of my music was on CDs I purchased decades ago. A few years ago I imported everything into iTunes. I keep it all on an external hard drive and every time I buy a new drive I make a backup copy. I don't have any of it backed up to the cloud. I still have all the CDs and while I'd rather not have to, I know I can import it all again. Any music I've bought in the last few years, I've bought through iTunes so it's backed up for me.

I don't need or even want all my music on every device. I typically only listen at home, though I have a smaller selection of music loaded onto my iPhone so if it do want to listen to music while I'm out, I have a selection of favorites with me. I suppose at some point I'll back it all up through iCloud, though after buying all my music twice already, once on vinyl and once on CD (with some purchased a 3rd time on cassettes), I'd rather not pay for the same music yet again. If I was 30 years younger, I'd pay for a monthly subscription through one or another service, but I'm not 30 years younger.

I don't find it difficult to manage my music through iTunes. I think iTunes is bloated software, but only because it does so many things beyond music. I've never found it difficult to manage my music though. If and/or when I decide to pay for something to store everything online, I'll probably go with iCloud to keep it all in one place.

[Brian Altenhofel]

I rarely buy music these days. I stream using Spotify, and I have several playlists set to be downloaded (for example, the one I play on shuffle as pre-service music at church, as well as what I like listening to when out on the mower where data might not be reliable).

One feature of Spotify I use pretty regularly is the ability to control playback on other devices. Usually when I play Madden on the PS4 with friends, I like to listen to classical or piano music. For some reason, Madden suspends itself if any other app is brought to the foreground, so what I do is start Spotify before starting Madden and then control Spotify from my phone.

Before Spotify, I would buy CDs and rip them as soon as I opened them because of the lack of reliability of optical discs. I tried iTunes when it first came out, but upon installation it didn't prompt for any user preferences. After a few minutes of the CPU fan running at max and the HDD fan kicking in, I checked to see what was causing so much disk I/O. As it turned out, it was converting all of my .wav files from those CDs to Apple's proprietary compression format. It was a good thing those CDs still worked so I could re-rip them, but ripping nearly 100 CDs again was not fun. Needless to say I haven't touched iTunes since.

[Harold Mansfield]

...I tried iTunes when it first came out, but upon installation it didn't prompt for any user preferences. After a few minutes of the CPU fan running at max and the HDD fan kicking in, I checked to see what was causing so much disk I/O. As it turned out, it was converting all of my .wav files from those CDs to Apple's proprietary compression format. It was a good thing those CDs still worked so I could re-rip them, but ripping nearly 100 CDs again was not fun. Needless to say I haven't touched iTunes since.

Yeah they SUCKED with that BS. A few years back I lost a good chunk of my collection when they had the update/delete anything that wasn't purchased on iTunes fiasco that they just admitted to earlier this year. Thankfully they don't do that anymore with music. You can access the folder and drag and drop your music anywhere now. Movies and Video is another story.

But being that I use zero Apple devices, it's really not the easiest thing to use for me because it doesn't integrate with many things outside of Apple's ecosphere.

Everyone I know that has Spotify swears by it, and I know it's integrated well across platforms and devices. Maybe I'll check out a trial of it.

[vangogh]

iTunes works fine for me as I do use Apple devices. I hear all the time it's not particularly good on Windows machines and I can understand why neither of you wants to use it.

If I didn't already purchase so much music I would sign up for a subscription service, but I feel like if I did now, I'd just be paying a monthly fee to listen to music I already purchased. I can probably listen to the music that I own for several months without repeating a song and I have plenty for whatever mood I happen to be in.

[Harold Mansfield]

My listening habits are pretty much that I listen to internet radio all day via iTunes...mostly House, Dance, EDM, and a couple of weekly podcasts.
When I hear a track I like I usually purchase it on iTunes because it has a decent store, and it's already open.

Google Play (my phone) is set up to sync from iTunes, and to the server. The server syncs to Plex and OneDrive, and OneDrive syncs to XBOX Music which is hooked up to the good system.

I have an Amazon Prime account which comes with Amazon Music ( which isn't that good with Dance music).
The Echo only plays Prime Music, music you uploaded to their cloud limited to 300 songs. or it will bluetooth from another device ( like my phone or old iPod) and play from that collection.

The Amazon devices don't play from Google Music.
XBOX doesn't play from Google Music, the Server, or iTunes.
My phone plays from Google Music, Plex, or Amazon.

Plex works on XBOX, Fire tablet, and Phone but not the Echo. It's also a little inconsistent.

Confused? Yeah, it's out of hand for me too. Somehow I have access to all of my music on every device except for Echo, but for streaming or cloud music use 2 different services on different devices, but prefer internet radio which I can't do on XBOX..but CAN do on Echo, phone and computer.

I was thinking to keep Google Play Music because it comes with You Tube Red, You Tube Music, and 50k song cloud storage. That keeps Server, Phone, and XBOX synced.
The echo isn't really for jamming out, so I figure I'll just keep 300 tracks of Jazz, and Sade there for late night/date night listening since it's on the nightstand along with whatever is available on Prime Music.

That's really the best thing I could come up with until one of these Music Managers works with everything which is not going to happen because they all want your complete devotion and don't want to play well with others... which is just silly.

Don't even get me started on mobile payments.

[vangogh]

You'd probably do best to subscribe to a service that has most of the music you listen to. One service that can be played from all your devices. Out of curiosity, how big of a deal is it to buy some of the songs you like? If you're mostly listening to internet radio all day, why not just stick with that? It sounds like it would simplify a lot of things.

Another thought is to make a few different hardware purchases that do play music from the services you already use. Think about where you listen to music and choose the devices you use in those places that work with the music services you like. There are so many wireless speakers out there, I would think you could find things to cover every part of your home. Maybe Sonos (http://www.sonos.com/streaming-music) would have you covered. They seem to work with a lot of different services and handle the management for you.

[Owen]

I don't use CDs anymore, I just bought an aux cord at Walmart while I stream Spotify Premium. Spotify is way better than its competitors, I tried Apple Music but I really didn't like it. YouTube's service isn't that bad, but it's more expensive. The people who argue Apple Music is better than Spotify because it has "more music" is just stupid unless you need your daily dose of Taylor Swift, but if that's the case just illegally download it like you did before Spotify and Apple Music were a thing. Good job, Taylor, you screwed yourself.

[Harold Mansfield]

You'd probably do best to subscribe to a service that has most of the music you listen to. One service that can be played from all your devices. Out of curiosity, how big of a deal is it to buy some of the songs you like? If you're mostly listening to internet radio all day, why not just stick with that? It sounds like it would simplify a lot of things.

I do purchase a bit of music. Maybe 1-3 tracks a week. Internet radio and podcasts are how I get turned on to new stuff that I want to own. The problem with streaming music services is that their catalog of House and Dance music is pretty weak especially when it comes to the classics, so I can't really "On Demand" a lot of tracks using them.

I can however find almost anything on You Tube and now with You Tube Red and You Tube music that I can put my favorites aside in lists for listening both online and offline.


Another thought is to make a few different hardware purchases that do play music from the services you already use. Think about where you listen to music and choose the devices you use in those places that work with the music services you like. There are so many wireless speakers out there, I would think you could find things to cover every part of your home. Maybe Sonos (http://www.sonos.com/streaming-music) would have you covered. They seem to work with a lot of different services and handle the management for you.

That's the way I think things should work. I should be able to play music from my own media server to any device in the house, and take it with me or remote stream from a mobile device. Plex promises that, but so far no luck.

I think you're correct that maybe I just don't have the right combination of sound systems to be able to do that. The Echo won't be able to do that yet, but I accept that it's new. The dream is for it to be able to play anything I own, whatever cloud services I have, and play it all wherever I want from one app.

I'll probably have to purchase some new stuff to be able to do that.

[Harold Mansfield]

I don't use CDs anymore, I just bought an aux cord at Walmart while I stream Spotify Premium. Spotify is way better than its competitors, I tried Apple Music but I really didn't like it. YouTube's service isn't that bad, but it's more expensive. The people who argue Apple Music is better than Spotify because it has "more music" is just stupid unless you need your daily dose of Taylor Swift, but if that's the case just illegally download it like you did before Spotify and Apple Music were a thing. Good job, Taylor, you screwed yourself.

Suggesting illegal downloads is not cool. I have a real problem with people who can't pay $1.29 for a song, yet think they have a right to just take it because someone else makes it easy for them to steal it.

ESPECIALLY people who work or sell products and services online.

[Owen]

Suggesting illegal downloads is not cool. I have a real problem with people who can't pay $1.29 for a song, yet think they have a right to just take it because someone else makes it easy for them to steal it.

ESPECIALLY people who work or sell products and services online.

Maybe so, but that's not going to stop pirates. Should artists be paid for their music? Yes. Should people be pirating things? No. Are they gonna stop? No. Unfortunately, there are people who feels artists make too much money so it should be a right to have it for free. That's why services like Spotify exist. To help stop that. Taylor was making $50,000 a month off of Spotify when she used their services, but she felt she wasn't being payed enough since Spotify took a big cut, her excuse was she makes so much more off of iTunes. Well, Ms. Swift now you're down 50 grand a month and now you're up more illegal downloads because you want to try to make a point.

[Harold Mansfield]

Maybe so, but that's not going to stop pirates. Should artists be paid for their music? Yes. Should people be pirating things? No. Are they gonna stop? No. Unfortunately, there are people who feels artists make too much money so it should be a right to have it for free. That's why services like Spotify exist. To help stop that. Taylor was making $50,000 a month off of Spotify when she used their services, but she felt she wasn't being payed enough since Spotify took a big cut, her excuse was she makes so much more off of iTunes. Well, Ms. Swift now you're down 50 grand a month and now you're up more illegal downloads because you want to try to make a point.

Yet when you create your big thing and want to sell it online, won't you feel that you should be paid fairly for it? Will you also subcomb to what others think what is enough money for you to make and be OK with them just stealing it?

What Taylor Swift makes has no bearing on whether or not I should pay for her music if that's what I want. Since when is someone elses salary our business as long as they provide the products or services that we want or need? If I decide I don't like Taylor Swift for social, ethics or political reasons, then I'll stop buying her stuff. But I'm not going to steal it.

I only [Personally] have a problem when people make money by extorting others or "the system". CEO's who make bonuses by keeping costs and payroll down by paying slave wages while their employees qualify for tax payer funded public assistance so that they can eat...THAT'S BS. But it's not my business nor do I care what Taylor Swift makes from Spotify. I do care that another artist makes nothing from it.

This thing where people feel justified screwing other people over because they've decided that person makes enough money is called "player hating" and it's older than you. Yet we all want to get paid for our own things.

I think you should make as much as you can if you create something that people want and will pay for. Who am I to say what's enough for someone else to make, or what business is it of mine?

And if you read the entire story, she's not doing it because she needs the money. She's banking all her cash from touring and sponsorships. She's doing it for the smaller artists who don't make anything from services like Spotify yet their music is available through them, and the record company pockets all of the cash. But that's another story.

[Owen]

Yet when you create your big thing and want to sell it online, won't you feel that you should be paid fairly for it? Will you also subcomb to what others think what is enough money for you to make and be OK with them just stealing it?

What Taylor Swift makes has no bearing on whether or not I should pay for her music if that's what I want. Since when is someone elses salary our business as long as they provide the products or services that we want or need? If I decide I don't like Taylor Swift for social, ethics or political reasons, then I'll stop buying her stuff. But I'm not going to steal it.

I only [Personally] have a problem when people make money by extorting others or "the system". CEO's who make bonuses by keeping costs and payroll down by paying slave wages while their employees qualify for tax payer funded public assistance so that they can eat...THAT'S BS. But it's not my business nor do I care what Taylor Swift makes from Spotify. I do care that another artist makes nothing from it.

This thing where people feel justified screwing other people over because they've decided that person makes enough money is called "player hating" and it's older than you. Yet we all want to get paid for our own things.

And if you read the entire story, she's not doing it because she needs the money. She's banking all her cash from touring and sponsorships. She's doing it for the smaller artists who don't make anything from services like Spotify yet their music is available through them, and the record company pockets all of the cash. But that's another story.

Sure Spotify doesn't pay amazingly, but it's their business model. To be honest it sucks. I haven't heard any artists whining about Pandora. What do they do differently than Spotify? I'm pretty sure they just buy the license like a radio station, though.

Sure, I'm glad she's making a statement. There's not much Spotify can do, either. They're a corporation that needs to make money and it's not like they're making $0.99 every time someone wants to listen to a different song...

[Fulcrum]

I'm not going to say much about Taylor Swift and the other artists in her current 1989 album genre. I find that they're more about the show rather than the music itself.

On topic, I use Itunes and my little Ipod nano. 1900 songs on it with no repeats. I've never used Spotify, though I did find one of my new favorite groups (Halestorm) from someone who was using that service. Now if I could find a way to program the Ipod dock to incinerate any device with Coldplay on it, I'd rest easy.

Shameless plug for Halestorm:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGchlqCjj8A

Can only do 1 video so here's links to 2 more:cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugwl46p7vvk&list=RDUgwl46p7vvk#t=102

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sXoA7B5yJo

[Harold Mansfield]

Sure Spotify doesn't pay amazingly, but it's their business model. To be honest it sucks. I haven't heard any artists whining about Pandora. What do they do differently than Spotify? I'm pretty sure they just buy the license like a radio station, though.

Sure, I'm glad she's making a statement. There's not much Spotify can do, either. They're a corporation that needs to make money and it's not like they're making $0.99 every time someone wants to listen to a different song...
You're correct, and the problem is the business model of streaming services. It's unsustainable unless they can pay peanuts and most of the peanuts go to the record companies. It's been an issue with artists for a while now. At this point in the game, touring is how you make money. But you can't sell big tours without record sales. It's a catch 22 and the artists who aren't "main stream" are getting screwed.

Prince predicted this a while back and refused to play the game. Being independent is the only way to retain control and profits, but marketing takes money and of course he's Prince.

All of these services aren't going to make it. Rdio is already done, with Pandora buying up their assets.

I figure Google and Apple can afford to keep them even if they don't make money...as long as they don't lose a lot of money. Pandora and Spotify look solid, but the margins are so small. You have to have (and keep) 10's of millions of monthly users to make it, and when that's your only product can you really compete with the companies like Google, Apple and Amazon who have a massive infrastructure AND make hardware?

Microsoft keeps revamping theirs over and over again since Zune's colossal failure ( Now XBOX Music), but I honestly don't think they will ever be successful at it.

After that, who knows? It's a crap shoot right now.

[Brian Altenhofel]

Sure Spotify doesn't pay amazingly, but it's their business model. To be honest it sucks. I haven't heard any artists whining about Pandora. What do they do differently than Spotify? I'm pretty sure they just buy the license like a radio station, though.

Royalty rates and distribution formulas in the US are set by federal law. In the case of Spotify, Pandora, and other streaming services - https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/37/part-385/subpart-B

One key difference between Spotify and Pandora is that Spotify must pay mechanical royalties under their model while Pandora must only pay performance royalties like a standard radio station.

The reason Swift pulled her music (she's one of the few professional performing artists that actually own the rights to their works - most assign their works to a label-controlled publishing company) is that Spotify would not agree to block free users from accessing her music while simultaneously allowing paid subscribers to access her music.

Several labels actually have an equity stake in Spotify where the terms of their investment required significantly reduced royalty payouts for artists under their label. Those labels see Spotify as a marketing medium and are probably looking for returns in ticket and merchandise sales.

[Harold Mansfield]

Just wanted to update this thread. The last 2 weeks or so I've created trial or free accounts with iHeart Radio, Spotify, Pandora, Google Play Music, TuneIn, and I already had Amazon Prime.

To be honest, the "radio" part of all of these services isn't radio at all. It's curated playlists of music for sale on the respective services. So actual internet radio is still the better choice since it's free and there are 1000's of stations from around the world to choose from.

The one thing that iTunes does well is it's access (tuner if you will) to actual internet radio stations. It's organized well, lists 1000's of stations in every genre, and that part of iTunes just works. The rest of iTunes for managing your music is a nightmare and it's not cross compatible.

TuneIn is OK, and you can find a limited selection of actual radio stations, but the selection is nowhere near what you find in iTunes internet radio listings or just go to the website of your favorite station.

The Echo works with TuneIn, iHeart, and Spotify so I'll keep those free accounts just for that, but I couldn't see paying for them. Everyone says it's great how they learn your tastes and play or suggest music based on that. Personally I don't see it. I already know what I like, and where to find it to hear new stuff as well as old favorites. I just can't see paying for that which has always been and still is free, they're only making suggestions based on what they sell, and is exactly what we complain about local radio being...curated playlists to shove certain music down our throats.

I do however like Google Play Music. "Radio" wise it's the same as the others...curated playlists that they call radio stations, however in my preferred genre they do a much better job. But the fact that it comes with [ad free] You Tube Red, You Tube Music, and has cloud storage of 250,000 tracks of your music for the same price as the others kind of makes it a no brainer. I can also use it across devices, and of course everything has a You Tube app.

One other thing is Google's search for music is the best I've ever seen. I frequently ask it the name of a song that is playing on TV or on the radio and it's spot on every time no matter how obscure the title or the genre with a buy link if I want to purchase, which immediately is available on all my devices. It's a small thing, but very convenient.

So for music management, convenience and entertainment Google Play is the clear winner for me.
I also still have everything on my own server, and Plex as a media manager is worthy for the price.

[Anoura929]

I use Amazon prime music, it's similar to spotify (you just click the song and that saves it). The service also offers radio on your smartphone which I have yet to use but like that it's there ;-).