Do You Know the Proper Web Etiqutte?

[KristineS]

I need to take a little informal survey. Last week we had someone take some content from our website and think it was perfectly o.k. that they had done so and had intent to use the content as their own. We have all the standard disclaimers on our sites, and we made it clear that use of our content without our permission was not acceptable.

What I'm wondering is this: are people really that ignorant about the law and proper web etiquette? Would any of you ever take something from another person's site without proper attribution and permission?

[Dan Furman]

What I'm wondering is this: are people really that ignorant about the law and proper web etiquette? Would any of you ever take something from another person's site without proper attribution and permission?

I think we all have at some point.

Is there anyone here who has never

- illegally downloaded a song
- used Winzip (etc) beyond the trial period, even though it still worked
- accepted a burned copy of software / music / game / etc
- burned a copy of software for someone else
- not bought the proper license (ie - buying one copy for the office, instead of one for each computer)

I'm pretty sure that there are very, very few people that are 100% clean in this regard. I'm adamant about paying for shareware / pics / music nowadays, but that wasn't always true. And I don't know too many offices that, years ago, bought the proper amount of MS Office licenses (before online activation, one copy of MSWord could handle the entire office.)

[nealrm]

Dan,
I'm the first to say that I'm not 100% perfect. And I only know of 1 person in human history that can say he was free of sin. However, we should all strive to avoid the above examples. In each case you are stealling someone elses work. It is not any different than taking money from thier wallets.

[Dan Furman]

Dan,
I'm the first to say that I'm not 100% perfect. And I only know of 1 person in human history that can say he was free of sin. However, we should all strive to avoid the above examples. In each case you are stealling someone elses work. It is not any different than taking money from thier wallets.

Oh, I totally agree. I now advocate paying for everything and doing things properly. But I admit, I had a copy of Winzip for years before I finally paid them (amongst other things).

I think it's the very nature of the internet to kind of indulge here a bit. I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying I'm not going to get up in arms over it, because there was a time when I was guilty myself. And not just me, but companies as well - For example I don't know of any small office that, years past (before online activation), didn't pass around the MSWord or Photoshop disc. I wonder how many "cease and desist" letters were written on (technically) illegal copies of Word?

[vangogh]

Do I know the proper etiquette? Yes I think so. Have I ever done anything on Dan's list above? Yes I have. I'm better now about not doing any of them though.

Sadly many people don't know. There are lots of people who think since it's on the web it must be free and can be used by anyone. You'll usually see that with images. I've seen some big companies that should know better stealing images. The truth is if you don't want someone to copy your content the only defense is to not put it on the web in the first place.

Legally and ethically you should be able to place content online worry free, but practically you can't stop people from grabbing your content. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think the laws need to change to conform more to reality.

[KristineS]

I think people do make the distinction between stealing software, like WinZip and stealing content from someone's web site. If you asked, even though people do it, most would tell you that taking a song, using software without a license, etc. is wrong.

I'm not so sure the same people would give the same answer is asked about taking a picture or something from someone's web site. My guess would be those are two separate issues for a lot of people.

[nealrm]

Dan,
I don't want you to worry - but I understand the FBI checks websites. They are now probably on thier way to ask about that copy of winzip. You might think about reformating your harddrives.:D

[vangogh]

Dan, this is the police. We have your house surrounded. Come out with your hands up and place your version of WinZip on the ground :)

[Dan Furman]

I think people do make the distinction between stealing software, like WinZip and stealing content from someone's web site. If you asked, even though people do it, most would tell you that taking a song, using software without a license, etc. is wrong.

I'm not so sure the same people would give the same answer is asked about taking a picture or something from someone's web site. My guess would be those are two separate issues for a lot of people.

I don't think people really view it as separate. It's on the web, it's there... hey, why not? They know its wrong - they just don't care. It's seen as a victimless crime, same as using MSword without the proper license.

The thing is, it hurts when its done to YOU.

Reminds me of when some kids smashed my mailbox a few years ago (they hit a few in the neighborhood one night.) I was pissed for about thirty seconds... then I remembered my own youth... Know what? I'm owed a smashed mailbox or two.

[Dan Furman]

Dan,
I don't want you to worry - but I understand the FBI checks websites. They are now probably on thier way to ask about that copy of winzip. You might think about reformating your harddrives.:D

PAID, BABY!!!

I even pay for music now - paid $100 for the compete Led Zep last year, etc. And yes, of course I've deleted all the bad, ill-gotten stuff :)

[Harold Mansfield]

A while ago, I found myself getting mad at promoters and managers for not sending me enough media, especially photos. I was always uneasy getting them off the web, even though I knew some photos to be promotional.

After a while, I started replying that I couldn't post just text, "I need some images with your promo" and almost unanimously pretty much everyone replied "Just go to our site and get the images that you need".

Different situation of course.

I find that most new webmasters, and bloggers will blatantly take stuff from other peoples websites, and of course we have been scraped for autoblogs at one time or another. It doesn't really bother me because most of my stuff is promotional, and can be had by anyone, and I publish the other blog's original content, under creative commons.

It only bothers me when I don't get a link.

I have been more than guilty of taking an image and "gimping" it to suit my needs, but most of the time if I need a specific kind of image, I'll go ahead and drop the $50 at Getty Images.

Taking someones text, and original images without their permission is just flat out wrong, and everyone knows it ..there has never been any confusion there.

But there are many that feel that the web should be some big social information society and everything is for the taking. Those same people would never take something in front of someones face, or announce it to the world, so in the back of their mind..they know it's wrong, no matter how they justify it.

I can honestly say for the past 2 years, every piece of software and every music track that I have on my computer was either given to me as a promotion, or I paid for it.

I am strongly against illegal downloads, and "file sharing" these days, and constantly get into arguments on other forums with other webmasters about it.

[vangogh]

It's interesting how the promoters and managers just said to grab it off their site as though you were supposed to have done that without their permission. I think some people see it as ok to grab anything they want.

I was never a music downloader. I think in the final days of Napster I downloaded a couple just to see what it was all about, but that was it. I've certainly used shareware beyond the 30 days without paying for it though.

[nealrm]

I would put promos and advertisement in a different area. In those cases you have been asked to help promote an item/event/person. Getting related material off thier site to accomplish that or to make the promotion coherent is somewhat expected. However, it is still better to ask than to assume it is OK.

[vangogh]

Yeah I still think it's best to ask. Until you have permission you shouldn't grab content from another site, even if you're pretty sure it's ok to.

Even if someone is asking you to help promote their site they may have certain images they want used in the promotion and certain images they don't want used at all.

[Harold Mansfield]

It's interesting how the promoters and managers just said to grab it off their site as though you were supposed to have done that without their permission. I think some people see it as ok to grab anything they want.



I would put promos and advertisement in a different area. In those cases you have been asked to help promote an item/event/person. Getting related material off thier site to accomplish that or to make the promotion coherent is somewhat expected. However, it is still better to ask than to assume it is OK.

I thought it was interesting as well. It still made me feel a little uncomfortable at first..I couldn't understand why they just didn't send over an image, but it has prompted more and more people to include photos now, so the instances of having to "snag" them are fewer now.

[vangogh]

it has prompted more and more people to include photos now

Well that's good. Maybe they had just assumed you would take the images and never thought about it. Now hopefully they'll send you the images they most want used.