PDA

View Full Version : Would you prosecute?



KristineS
05-13-2009, 12:49 PM
We just had this happen to us, so I thought it might make a good post. Since it's more a legal issue than a website issue, I thought I'd mention it here.

We have several websites and blogs for our companies. Obviously we have disclaimers on all of them which say that all content, pictures, videos, etc. are the property of our companies and may not be used without our express permission.

Last week a company that works with a manufacturer with whom we also work, decided they wanted some product pictures that were on one of our sites, and proceeded to download the pictures without asking us. In fact, I never would have known it had been done, except for the fact that I happened to contact the person who had done it, and she told me as an afterthought.

Naturally I was livid. The pictures were our content and represented several days of work. We contacted the other company and were told they would not use the pictures, but I'm still wondering what we would have done if they had used them.

My question to all of you is this: Would you prosecute if someone was taking content from your site and using it for their own? Also, do you have a disclaimer on your site stating the site contents are copyrighted? Do you think most people know what the laws are in these situations?

Dan Furman
05-13-2009, 01:28 PM
Very gray area.

I would watermark your images. That's really all you can do. Otherwise, the web will always be a little "wild west" in this regard. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Now I can understand defending something more personal, like a trademark, a logo, etc, but for something like you describe (a third-party product), I'm not so sure prosecution would be a good route. After all, I'll bet almost every company out there has some type of illegal software / downloaded image / unregistered shareware / etc somewhere.

nealrm
05-13-2009, 01:39 PM
As Dan said don't sweat the small stuff. Taking them to court over a couple of product photos is not really in your best interest. Even if you were to win, the most like judgement would be they had to remove the photo.

vangogh
05-13-2009, 02:59 PM
I wouldn't prosecute. I think we're an over litigious nation and many things don't really need the law to get involved. They're often easy enough to work out. In your case as long as the other site isn't going to use the images there's no harm done.

Most of the time content theft is done in another country in which case prosecution is going to be hard. It sucks to see someone stealing your hard work, but now I've learned to gain a little something back from it. For example I know every time I write a post another site is going to grab it and republish. So I make sure to add links in most every post to other posts on my site. Then when the content is copied I end up with a low quality link.

KristineS
05-13-2009, 04:40 PM
We aren't going to prosecute. I guess I'm more mystified by the fact that people think that taking content without even asking is all right. Sometimes I think the only way to stop that sort of thing is to prosecute these cases. If there are no penalties than there is no incentive to stop. It would be nice to think content would not be hijacked because it simply was the wrong thing to do, but I don't know how realistic that is.

Evan
05-13-2009, 05:03 PM
When I was doing website development, I actually found another person had the same identical site I had designed with their logo. Much of the content was the same too. I sent a certified letter demanding that they take down their website or I would proceed with legal action. The threat alone caused them to resolve it.

As they were not in my state, I would have had to travel to Georgia to sue. Probably not worth the expense, but it is the principle of the matter.

Vivid Color Zack
05-13-2009, 05:41 PM
Evan took the route I would take. Threaten legal action if they don't take down your material. Cite intellectual property laws and sound really serious and they will take it down. Nobody who would steal other peoples work like that can afford the lawsuit.

Realistically what would you sue for? They obviously don't have any money... You would spend a lot of your own time and money to get them to achieve the same result as just the threat.

cocoy
05-13-2009, 05:53 PM
I guess there are two different actions here.

1. Them taking your pictures.

2. Them posting your pictures on their site.

From your post, I don't think #2 happened. You caught it in time.

With #1... is there anything to sue about it if it's not re-published?

What if your computer's cache keeps it? Is there a difference?

Just my random thoughts. :cool:

Patrysha
05-13-2009, 07:20 PM
What I don't get is why you wouldn't want to share these pictures (unless this is some kind of competitor, but it sounds like this is a distributor for the manufacturer?)

If they are manufacturer approved and they have taken time and effort to develop why wouldn't you be sharing them with those who carry the product so that the overall company has a nice consistent image?

Or maybe I'm just not getting something about the relationship between the parties involved. If it's a competitor it's a different matter entirely.

Business Attorney
05-13-2009, 07:24 PM
I wouldn't sue in your case. Unless you have registered your copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office, it is very unlikely that you would get any monetary damages.

Registering entitles you to statutory damages and attorneys fees, but few people actually register a copyright for their web-based materials.

Without registering, it is likely that your victory would be to require them to take down the infringing material. That is something you can normally do without resorting to legal action.

If the thief refuses to remove the copyrighted material when you ask, you or your attorney can send a DMCA take-down notice to the thief's host and that will usually do the trick.

SteveC
05-13-2009, 07:31 PM
We’ve had this happen more times that I care to mention and when we’re in the mood this is what we do:


We send an email to the company concerned asking them to remove our content from their website, we also sometimes ask why it is on their website.... and the general answer is that some contractor must have used it without their permission.
If the above fails we will often write to the hosting company concerned and state that a company website they are hosting is in breach of our copyright, we then give examples of our material and then offending website... we then go on to say that as we have now made them aware of such violations any further action will include their company should they allow this material to continue to be viewed by the public.


If you also make sure you follow the Copyright Infringement Notice Scheme almost every time the website in question will be removed from public viewing… we’ve even had websites in Vietnam closed down following this procedure.

Spider
05-14-2009, 09:22 AM
Why not take a more positive approach?

Advise the company that you have seen this content of yours being displayed on their site. Thank them for displaying your pictures/article. Refer to the time and cost in producing that material and give them permission to use it provided they add your copyright mark and a link back to your site. (Include the text and link code in your notice.)

I have only had to do this once and the other party promptly did as I asked and I got another backlink. I then changed my content by way of an update to my site.

Much simpler, much more pleasant and more productive all round.

KristineS
05-14-2009, 01:10 PM
What I don't get is why you wouldn't want to share these pictures (unless this is some kind of competitor, but it sounds like this is a distributor for the manufacturer?)

If they are manufacturer approved and they have taken time and effort to develop why wouldn't you be sharing them with those who carry the product so that the overall company has a nice consistent image?

Or maybe I'm just not getting something about the relationship between the parties involved. If it's a competitor it's a different matter entirely.

There is a long history behind this particular story, and one I don't want to go into here. It's complicated.

KristineS
05-14-2009, 01:12 PM
There are some good ideas about what to do here. Frederick, I think your approach is a good one. Certainly an resolution that doesn't result in more antagonism is a good.

I think, at this point, I was more mystified by the thought process that led to the incident. It also makes me rather concerned about the state of copyright when it comes to web sites and web related content. I know I've seen it several times with blog posts I've written. Some people just seem to feel that any content is fair game.

Patrysha
05-14-2009, 04:23 PM
Yeah the state of copyright online is a constant battle. Many otherwise sane and wonderful people think the web is all public domain.

I've had clients ask me if I can just go to their suppliers sites to get pictures and I say no...not unless you can show me the contract or supply agreement that says they allow you to use their promotional materials because I need a copy in my files before I can do that. So they need to get me the paperwork first.

huggytree
05-16-2009, 07:29 AM
if you have a lawyer send them a letter asking them to take it down to stop future legal action from you! -ill bet they take it down. a $250 letter will probably work.

i agree with the water mark idea

i took photo's from the Kohler website for my website. I did ask permission though(im sure no one else ever does though)...i was told i could take any photo w/o models in it. I didnt need a 1/2 naked women on my website anyways, so it didnt matter.

Harold Mansfield
05-16-2009, 06:48 PM
I was always told that suing for less than $10,000 is a waste of time, because the small stuff will cost you more time and money than it is worth.

Watermarks are the best way to go in this situation. I have to agree, the web is the "wild wild west" when it comes to copyright, especially with images since they are served up by Google giving the impression that everything is Open Source.

I personally wouldn't be caught dead taking an image from a competing website...I won't even post an article or promotion if I see that they have it up already (I always have to be first...they should follow me:)).
The fact that they brought it up to you nonchalantly is proof positive that they are either idiots when it comes to the web, or who ever is running their web presence is one.

I can't really get mad at stupidity in that manner, because they probably didn't really mean any harm, they just didn't know.

Doesn't mean that I would still demand that they take them down.