Has anyone used this service?

[Spider]

Has anyone used ... Article Submission Service | Article Distribution Service (http://www.fastsubmitarticles.com/)

...for article writing and submission.

I have been intending to write and submit articles for marketing purposes but lack the time. I am capable of writing my own articles but that still takes time. This sounds like a solution to that problem.

Has anyone dealth with or used these people? Can you recommend them?

Is there anyone on SBF that provides a similar service? If so, what do you charge? I would certainly prefer to use a SBF member.

Reply here (for additional exposure!) or PM or e-mail, if you prefer.

[vangogh]

I haven't used them and probably wouldn't. I think most submission services end up not being worth the price you pay. However that's not meant to be a knock on this particular service since I've never used them.

My own feeling with articles is you'll get more marketing benefit by placing one article on one good site, so something like guest posting is better than article submission. Think quality over quantity. The benefit of article directories has mostly been that your article would get downloaded and end up on a number of sites.

However the article is duplicate content and I think any link/seo benefit isn't really there. Most of the articles tend to end up on low quality sites with little traffic so the eyeballs seeing your article aren't all that much. A few of the directories themselves might be a useful place for your content as their link might be good and they might have the eyeballs reading your article. But that's probably only a small number of directories.

I still think the better approach to article marketing is to find some quality sites related to yours that would accept an article or guest post. You only get to submit the same content to one site, but the quality of the site and the people reading are so much higher than the randomness with article directories.

[KristineS]

I've not used this service, so I can't say how good or not good it might be.

My concern with this service would be that you're engaging someone to write about your company or services who really knows nothing about your company or services. When you work one on one with a professional writer and marketer, that person will make it their business to learn about your business. If they're good at what they do, they'll immerse themselves in your business so they can speak and write about it with almost as much expertise as you can.

When I start out writing about something new for one of our companies, I spend a lot of time on research and just talking things over with whatever resident experts might be available. In order to be effective, you need someone who really understands your goals, your business and how you want to be presented. A cookie cutter article just can't do that, and probably won't be as effective.

I also agree with Vangogh that a well placed guest post or single article will most likely do more for you than a scattershot article submission.

[Spider]

Thank you. I guess a re-think is in order.

[vangogh]

Frederick I don't think there's anything wrong with submitting articles to article directories. It's more that you'll get more out of having your article published on one more prominent site in your industry.

Also I think that only a small handful of the directories are worthwhile. (ezine, goarticles, for example) You'll probably get all the benefit of article directories with half a dozen or less so you wouldn't need to hire someone to do the submission. The service you linked to mentions submitting to 352 directories. I'd bet 340 of them are useless.

Think quality over quantity.

[Business Attorney]

Here's a question for all you marketing experts. Say that I write an article and submit it to ezines, where it is accepted and indexed by Google and the other major search engines. Several months later, I take the same article, rewrite it enough to make it "new" (but still basically the same content) and pay $6 or $25 to have it distributed.

Is that a complete waste of $6 or $25, or is there enough benefit from either potential traffic or backlink value to justify the cost?

Or would I be better off submitting the "new" article to one article site myself?

[Patrysha]

It really depends on two things - the quality of the re-write and the distribution chosen.

With defining whether it's new or not, it's not the content that is the issue (there are a thousand different ways to say the same thing without repeating one-self) it's how much is copied directly as opposed to paraphrased and revamped.

With deciding whether it's worth it or not the main questions are

1) Are the current links from the current article bringing you in valuable leads? If not, it might not be worth the dollars to redistribute.

2) Is the cost to do it less than what it would cost you to do it yourself? Often it is much less because they (the service you hire) has systems in place that makes it quick and easy for them...so something that might take you 3 hours on your own might take them half an hour, but they've saved you all that time.

[vangogh]

I'd also add it depends on where the article gets distributed. Your basic idea is fine. As long as you rewrite it enough it is a new and unique article. You then are back at the initial question of how can that content best be used.

I'll say again to think quality over quantity. One well placed link will do more than hundreds of poorly placed links. Having your article appear on a very popular site that gets read by 100,000 people is better than having that same article appear on a hundred sites that each have 50 readers.

With the distribution you have to think of where your content gets distributed. If your original article did get published on a great site with lots of readers you can still later rewrite the content and distribute it to a wider variety of sites. Just understand what benefit you might get so you can compare to the cost.

And in this case $6 to $25 is hardly a lot. Worst case scenario is you spent $25 to learn something doesn't work.

[submit_articles]

Hi everyone, I'm the owner of the article submission service, and I found this thread from my stats log.

I've run this service for coming to a year now, and have had the privilege of witnessing hundreds of websites receiving a boost in the search engines from our services.

I've also met people like Vangogh here, who is a typical naysayer (no offense dude). When I read his responses, I can't help but smile.

Why?

Because his posts stem from ignorance.

See this?



he service you linked to mentions submitting to 352 directories. I'd bet 340 of them are useless...


Let's see... we submit to

1) Ezinearticles.com
2) Goarticles.com
3) Amazines.com
4) Ideamarketers.com
5) Articledashboard.com
6) ArticleFactory.com
7) Artipot.com
8) Americanchronicle.com
9) articlecell.com
10) articlemotron.com
11) articlebin.com
12) ArticlePros.com
13) Articlecity.com
14) PremierDirectory.org

Oops...that's 2 more useful article directories than what you initially predicted.

Does it ever occur to you that there may be more than 12 useful article directories on the entire Internet?????

And I guess the article directory owners will be happy as hell when they read your comment. In a single swipe you have managed to discredit hundreds and maybe even thousands of article dirs on the Internet. Well done.

Honestly Vangogh, I don't mean to be rude but you are not doing yourself any favors here by dishing out bad advice.

First, you make yourself look like an idiot.

Second, you are not helping others by saying things that are untrue. You are DESTROYING them, whether you know it or not. In fact, come to think of it, it is IRRESPONSIBLE to be giving out incorrect information.

So a strong word of advice: Work on improving your knowledge and stop giving out crap advice.

Then you go and say this...


Think quality over quantity.

My question to you is, why can't you have BOTH? Yes, guest posting, blog posting, social bookmarking, etc... they all work. I myself engage in other forms of link building as well. That is QUALITY AND QUANTITY.

You want to compete in the search engines? You have to be competitive. I'm guessing our Vangogh friend here isn't ranking for anything, with his negative attitude.

If anyone is looking to buy anything from our Vangogh friend, I advise you to think again, for he will lead you down the wrong path. How? I'll show you.

This is his line of thinking:

1) Article submission services doesn't work.
2) There are only a small number of well est. dirs on the Internet.
3) So it isn't worth looking into.
4) You end up doing nothing.

What about guest posting?

1) Guest posting doesn't work.
2) There are only a small number of good blogs on the Internet.
3) It doesn't work.
4) So you end up doing nothing.

Oh, oh how about PPC marketing?

1) PPC is too saturated.
2) PPC doesn't work anymore.
3) So you don't do PPC.

See a pattern here? If you take advice from naysayers, you always end up in the same place - doing nothing. And doing nothing leads you nowhere.

I'm smiling inside because everyday I see people making tons of money off the search engines using article marketing...and then I read posts like Vangogh, saying that article marketing doesn't work...haha. Pure genius, our Vangogh friend.

Even my clients know more than Mr. Vangogh here. Want to know why? Because we watch each other's back and don't let the naysayers try to influence or confuse one another.

I write SEO posts with undeniable proof to show to all my clients that article marketing works. You just need to know how to make it work for you. For anyone who is interested, send me a PM and I'll send you the link to the case study. I don't want to post it publicly because not everyone deserves to receive the content.

Our Vangogh friend? I think I'll leave him to wallow in his own poor attitude. For the rest of us who are interested in pushing ahead, let's keep pushing together.


Frederick I don't think there's anything wrong with submitting articles to article directories. It's more that you'll get more out of having your article published on one more prominent site in your industry.

Also I think that only a small handful of the directories are worthwhile. (ezine, goarticles, for example) You'll probably get all the benefit of article directories with half a dozen or less so you wouldn't need to hire someone to do the submission. The service you linked to mentions submitting to 352 directories. I'd bet 340 of them are useless....

[submit_articles]

This is what I mean by good advice. Yes, when you outsource, you need to hire someone who knows your business well. But where does it start? It starts from the first article, the first press release, until the supplier knows you so well that he can write about your business blindfolded (well, not exactly, but you know what I mean).

Like all the other traffic generation methods, article marketing has its role. You need to understand it, then use it to your own benefit. I can't stress this enough. Don't ignore it before you even start to understand it. Do your own research, and find out more. But be careful of where you are obtaining advice. Don't listen to people who have never tried article marketing before. They know nuts, pretend they are the nutty professor, and they'll probably give you nutty advice.


I've not used this service, so I can't say how good or not good it might be.

My concern with this service would be that you're engaging someone to write about your company or services who really knows nothing about your company or services. When you work one on one with a professional writer and marketer, that person will make it their business to learn about your business. If they're good at what they do, they'll immerse themselves in your business so they can speak and write about it with almost as much expertise as you can.

When I start out writing about something new for one of our companies, I spend a lot of time on research and just talking things over with whatever resident experts might be available. In order to be effective, you need someone who really understands your goals, your business and how you want to be presented. A cookie cutter article just can't do that, and probably won't be as effective.

I also agree with Vangogh that a well placed guest post or single article will most likely do more for you than a scattershot article submission.

[SteveC]

Let me share with you my thoughts on this...

I for instance would never use an article submission service, much for the same reasons as Vangogh (Steve) I guess... however unlike Steve, I also run a publishing website and so I am constantly bombarded with articles and do you know where they all end up... in my junk mail folder... not one of them is ever read and not one of them is ever published.... so from that perspective I guess my opinion is informed.

I’ve also been on the Internet for more years that I care to mention, and once upon a time, submitting articles was an extremely good way to build up traffic and ones reputation... I even did this myself, however once all of these submission services started... two things happened.


The quality of the articles and the websites that published them went down, with many websites closing... as people got fed up with reading the same article or a version of the same article... as everything became much of a muchness.
The good article submission services and there are no doubt still a couple of good ones around, got swamped by numerous other companies offering the same thing, cheaper and supposedly better... however the quality of the service was gone or shall we say downgraded, as companies submitted articles to all and sundry and whereas once they would have tied the article to best set of publishers, now they simply work in volume and the overall quality has fallen dramatically... in fact most decent publishing houses simply refuse to publish such articles... meaning they are added to some persons blog or such like if you are lucky.


As to article directories just ask yourself this question, when was the last time you visited an article directory and would you bother looking there for articles for your website?

That’s basically my opinion... and if I was going to use an article submission service based on this guys posts above (which are simply marketing mumbo jumbo aimed at selling his service but in my opinion are rubbish) I most definitely would not use this one.

And Darren please feel to attack me if you like, I've been around the Intener a long time and at least we're both in the same time zone so I can reply to your dribble much quicker (you're in Singapore and I'm in Perth, Australia)

[submit_articles]

If you say so...


Let me share with you my thoughts on this...

I for instance would never use an article submission service, much for the same reasons as Vangogh (Steve) I guess... however unlike Steve, I also run a publishing website and so I am constantly bombarded with articles and do you know where they all end up... in my junk mail folder... not one of them is ever read and not one of them is ever published.... so from that perspective I guess my opinion is informed.

I’ve also been on the Internet for more years that I care to mention, and once upon a time, submitting articles was an extremely good way to build up traffic and ones reputation... I even did this myself, however once all of these submission services started... two things happened.


The quality of the articles and the websites that published them went down, with many websites closing... as people got fed up with reading the same article or a version of the same article... as everything became much of a muchness.
The good article submission services and there are no doubt still a couple of good ones around, got swamped by numerous other companies offering the same thing, cheaper and supposedly better... however the quality of the service was gone or shall we say downgraded, as companies submitted articles to all and sundry and whereas once they would have tied the article to best set of publishers, now they simply work in volume and the overall quality has fallen dramatically... in fact most decent publishing houses simply refuse to publish such articles... meaning they are added to some persons blog or such like if you are lucky.


As to article directories just ask yourself this question, when was the last time you visited an article directory and would you bother looking there for articles for your website?

That’s basically my opinion... and if I was going to use an article submission service based on this guys posts above (which are simply marketing mumbo jumbo aimed at selling his service but in my opinion are rubbish) I most definitely would not use this one.

And Darren please feel to attack me if you like, I've been around the Intener a long time and at least we're both in the same time zone so I can reply to your dribble much quicker (you're in Singapore and I'm in Perth, Australia)

[vangogh]

Don't worry offense taken. By the way before you go around calling someone an idiot you might want to do a little checking since I do know what I'm talking about. I have a hunch most of the people here will back me on that since I've been giving them advice for several years that has helped them. You might also want to read what I actually wrote since you've twisted a few things I said.


I think most submission services end up not being worth the price you pay. However that's not meant to be a knock on this particular service since I've never used them.

Sounds like I didn't say anything bad about your particular service since I haven't used it. I'll stand by most submission services not being worth the price you pay though. Say what you want, but the majority of the articles are going to be seen as duplicate content. At least in the eyes of Google most of that duplicate content won't pass any weight with the links.

Wow so you listed 14 article directories. Now prove that they're useful. Listing them doesn't make them useful. It makes them a list. Oh that's right we have to PM you for the proof. I guess most of the people here or the many people who may read it aren't deserving.

You should also understand that when people use numbers like I did above they aren't meant to be exact. Again I'll stand by saying that most of article directories are useless. Is it 340 out of 352 I don't know. Maybe it's 320 out of 352. I don't think that really alters my point.

A point you seem to have missed above. What I'm saying in this thread and I've said it in many other threads as well is that you'd be better off taking your article and getting it published on a single site that gets a lot of traffic and is trusted by search engines and has a readership that is actually related to your topic. This may not ever occur to you, but search engines aren't the only form of traffic. SEO is a subset of marketing and it makes sense to market yourself to people who are actually interested in what you have to say.

I didn't mention it here, but I have mentioned it in other places on this forum that if you can't get your article published on one of your handpicked sites then go ahead and submit to article directories, though that should be your fall back option and not your first option.

Now since you are clearly the expert lets see how well your service works. I assume you use it yourself. So how many links has it brought to your site.

Google: 11 links (http://www.google.com/search?q=link%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.fastsubmitarticle s.com%2F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Yahoo: 531 links (http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fastsubmitarticles.com%2 F&bwm=i&bwmo=&bwmf=s)

Just for fun let's see how many links the search engines say I have coming into my site.

Google: 250 links (http://www.google.com/search?q=link:http://www.vanseodesign.com&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=ImC&num=100&filter=0)

Yahoo: 7,373 (http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vanseodesign.com&bwm=i&bwmo=&bwmf=s)

Not that my incoming links are necessarily anything to brag about, but both search engines show me as having more links than you by a magnitude of 10. Yep, you're the expert.

I did say quality was important though. Here are a few site in my industry that link to me

Search Engine Land
SEOmoz
SEO by the SEA
ProBlogger
CopyBlogger
DoshDosh
Online Marketing Blog
SEO Scoop
Marketing Pilgrim

Just some quick math, but that's about 250,000 rss subscribers to the above blogs and it's only a partial list of sites that have linked my way. Anyone who's spent more than a few minutes in the seo community would likely recognize the sites above and even more want to get links from them.

Oh and I do get plenty of search traffic for thousands of different phrases. My phone rings with leads from people who find my site through one of the search engines.

One last time I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't use your services. Anyone is more than welcome to. What I am saying is there are much better uses for content than submitting that same content to hundreds of article directories. If the article is well written it's probably better off on your own site. Assuming you don't want the content on your site and you were unable to get it published on your ideal choices then go ahead and submit the site to some article directories.

[vangogh]

Looks like both of you posted while I was posting.

You probably don't want to pick a fight with SteveC. He's been online longer than most of us and his site ranks well for some very choice terms. I suspect he gets more traffic than many of us combined.

One piece of advice which I'm sure you won't listen to. Running around the web calling people idiots isn't the way to get others to trust you or your services. Do you honestly think you're convincing people to contact you and use your services? If this is the level of professionalism they should expect...

[submit_articles]

You do know what you are talking about? The links you give, everyone knows that Google doesn't reveal links publicly...why am I even wasting time smartening you up...

If you think you are right, so be it. You're probably right.

I'm giving you some advice dude....if you give out crap advice, it's going to come back to you...for it's going to make you look like an idiot. I didn't say you are an idiot. Why so sensitive?

Say what you will, continue giving out advice the way you are doing. I'm just not sure who is worse off...you, or the people who listen to what you say.

Having the most links doesn't make you an expert. You're probably spamming other people's blogs with your comments. Yahoo does count "nofollow" you know...

And how much money you making from your sites?

From the way you are putting others down just to make yourself look good, I think you're making peanuts.

So much for being an expert...haha


Don't worry offense taken. By the way before you go around calling someone an idiot you might want to do a little checking since I do know what I'm talking about. I have a hunch most of the people here will back me on that since I've been giving them advice for several years that has helped them. You might also want to read what I actually wrote since you've twisted a few things I said.



Sounds like I didn't say anything bad about your particular service since I haven't used it. I'll stand by most submission services not being worth the price you pay though. Say what you want, but the majority of the articles are going to be seen as duplicate content. At least in the eyes of Google most of that duplicate content won't pass any weight with the links.

Wow so you listed 14 article directories. Now prove that they're useful. Listing them doesn't make them useful. It makes them a list. Oh that's right we have to PM you for the proof. I guess most of the people here or the many people who may read it aren't deserving.

You should also understand that when people use numbers like I did above they aren't meant to be exact. Again I'll stand by saying that most of article directories are useless. Is it 340 out of 352 I don't know. Maybe it's 320 out of 352. I don't think that really alters my point.

A point you seem to have missed above. What I'm saying in this thread and I've said it in many other threads as well is that you'd be better off taking your article and getting it published on a single site that gets a lot of traffic and is trusted by search engines and has a readership that is actually related to your topic. This may not ever occur to you, but search engines aren't the only form of traffic. SEO is a subset of marketing and it makes sense to market yourself to people who are actually interested in what you have to say.

I didn't mention it here, but I have mentioned it in other places on this forum that if you can't get your article published on one of your handpicked sites then go ahead and submit to article directories, though that should be your fall back option and not your first option.

Now since you are clearly the expert lets see how well your service works. I assume you use it yourself. So how many links has it brought to your site.

Google: 11 links (http://www.google.com/search?q=link%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.fastsubmitarticle s.com%2F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Yahoo: 531 links (http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fastsubmitarticles.com%2 F&bwm=i&bwmo=&bwmf=s)

Just for fun let's see how many links the search engines say I have coming into my site.

Google: 250 links (http://www.google.com/search?q=link:http://www.vanseodesign.com&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=ImC&num=100&filter=0)

Yahoo: 7,373 (http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vanseodesign.com&bwm=i&bwmo=&bwmf=s)

Not that my incoming links are necessarily anything to brag about, but both search engines show me as having more links than you by a magnitude of 10. Yep, you're the expert.

I did say quality was important though. Here are a few site in my industry that link to me

Search Engine Land
SEOmoz
SEO by the SEA
ProBlogger
CopyBlogger
DoshDosh
Online Marketing Blog
SEO Scoop
Marketing Pilgrim

Just some quick math, but that's about 250,000 rss subscribers to the above blogs and it's only a partial list of sites that have linked my way. Anyone who's spent more than a few minutes in the seo community would likely recognize the sites above and even more want to get links from them.

Oh and I do get plenty of search traffic for thousands of different phrases. My phone rings with leads from people who find my site through one of the search engines.

One last time I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't use your services. Anyone is more than welcome to. What I am saying is there are much better uses for content than submitting that same content to hundreds of article directories. If the article is well written it's probably better off on your own site. Assuming you don't want the content on your site and you were unable to get it published on your ideal choices then go ahead and submit the site to some article directories.

[vangogh]

Yes I know Google doesn't show every link. They show a sample of links, but if you compare two sites they will show more links for the site that does have more links. If we were talking 15 links vs 11 links I'd say sure it doesn't prove anything, but 250 vs 11 is a comparable difference. Yahoo though doesn't hold back quite as many links. And yes I know they count nofollow links.

You know you could have come into this thread and simply debated with us why you think your service were useful. I'm the first person to admit if I've made a mistake. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. But instead you chose to come here calling me an idiot and then calling SteveC an idiot. Do you really think that's going to convince people to spend money with you? It says a lot about you and what people can expect from you if they do business with you.

Think what you will, but I've been making a living online for years. If you have too then good for you.

[submit_articles]

Why so offended by the "idiot" thing? Just saying dude.

And I don't pick fights with guys who throw their weight around and invite people to attack them for no reason. He has lots of traffic? Good for him. He doesn't own the Internet. Traffic come from where? From Google. From the search engines. He owns the search engines? I don't think so.

Funny how you guys look at things.


Looks like both of you posted while I was posting.

You probably don't want to pick a fight with SteveC. He's been online longer than most of us and his site ranks well for some very choice terms. I suspect he gets more traffic than many of us combined.

One piece of advice which I'm sure you won't listen to. Running around the web calling people idiots isn't the way to get others to trust you or your services. Do you honestly think you're convincing people to contact you and use your services? If this is the level of professionalism they should expect...

[submit_articles]

Haha, now we are talking.

I'm just teasing a little here Steve. Honestly, I see sites doing well, that is why I disagree with what you have to say. The younger ones may get misled you know.... :)


Yes I know Google doesn't show every link. They show a sample of links, but if you compare two sites they will show more links for the site that does have more links. If we were talking 15 links vs 11 links I'd say sure it doesn't prove anything, but 250 vs 11 is a comparable difference. Yahoo though doesn't hold back quite as many links. And yes I know they count nofollow links.

You know you could have come into this thread and simply debated with us why you think your service were useful. I'm the first person to admit if I've made a mistake. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. But instead you chose to come here calling me an idiot and then calling SteveC an idiot. Do you really think that's going to convince people to spend money with you? It says a lot about you and what people can expect from you if they do business with you.

Think what you will, but I've been making a living online for years. If you have too then good for you.

[vangogh]

Great disagree with me. I welcome that. I have no problem with you disagreeing and if you can show me that submitting articles is a good way to improve search traffic and traffic in general that's even better. The whole point of what we do here is to debate with each other in the hopes that we and others will learn from each other.

But if you're going to come in here telling me I don't know what I'm doing and generally being rude in an effort to make yourself look better you aren't doing yourself any favors.

Think about it. You may have missed it, but I own this forum. Most of the people here I consider friends. And I think many would say the same about me. In fact quite a number of people here have hired me and continue to recommend me to others. You're coming into a group of people who have been talking to each other for years. Insulting one of us and picking a fight isn't going to endear you to anyone.

But like I said we welcome debate. Show us why article submissions are a good thing. We'll listen. We may still disagree and you have to accept that, but we'll gladly listen to what you have to say as long as you say it respectfully.

[submit_articles]

Yes, but now I don't feel like sharing.

Why would I when I've been treated in such a rude manner?

I'm offering an article submission service, you know what pains it takes to run this service?

1) I have to write 100% human written articles.
2) Track the submissions to premium sites.
3) Maintain a list of article directories that are active. (Some do go offline)
4) Spend 2 hrs + to distribute each article.

All just to ramp up the links for the sites.

When you say out of 352 articles, 340 are useless...I still can't believe you could say something that irresponsible.

The goal of blog posting and article submission is the same - to get back links from well established sites across a range of IPs.

If there can be well established blogs, why can't there be well established article directories?

It does seem I have good reason to call it "crappy" advice Steve. Yes, you own this forum, and you can ban or delete my account for all I care. But this is how I genuinely felt, and I'm speaking my mind. It doesn't mean others should respect you just because you own this forum. Do you truly have their best interests in mind?

I HOPE you have Steve...I can only hope...

You should have advised your members to do BOTH, which I've already mentioned. What you have proven, is that you have spent a lot of time building links with blogs. What you haven't shown, is the links that come from article marketing.

If you can get a site to rank well, who cares whether the links come from blogs or article directories. That's why I say do both.

Problem is, many people just don't have the time. How much time you spent building links and relationships in blog? You work on your internet business full time, so you probably can afford the time.

But what about those who can't?

You know, I could've charged much higher for my services. But I didn't. And I kept the pricing low so that people can use it. Do you know how much others are charging?

I get pissed when people with EGO come in the picture and think that they are the SEO Gods. They are not. They are just scrambling for the crumbs that are dropped by Google.

And I think this EGO shouldn't influence the newcomers adversely - i.e. those who are new to SEO, and don't know what to believe. If they'd listened, what would they have done?

They would think article submission doesn't work, and stick to posting links in blogs. That works, provided if they can fork out the time. And if they can't? What next? That's why I say there is a role for article submission, just like PPC and all the other traffic generation methods.

I think at the end of the day, everyone does something for a living...whether it's selling a product or providing a service. You are no different, SteveC is no different. We are all serving the same community. So why the hostility?

SteveC sells templates. Wonder what he would say if people start saying 340 out of the 352 templates he sells sucks in public forums...

Think you get my point.


Great disagree with me. I welcome that. I have no problem with you disagreeing and if you can show me that submitting articles is a good way to improve search traffic and traffic in general that's even better. The whole point of what we do here is to debate with each other in the hopes that we and others will learn from each other.

But if you're going to come in here telling me I don't know what I'm doing and generally being rude in an effort to make yourself look better you aren't doing yourself any favors.

Think about it. You may have missed it, but I own this forum. Most of the people here I consider friends. And I think many would say the same about me. In fact quite a number of people here have hired me and continue to recommend me to others. You're coming into a group of people who have been talking to each other for years. Insulting one of us and picking a fight isn't going to endear you to anyone.

But like I said we welcome debate. Show us why article submissions are a good thing. We'll listen. We may still disagree and you have to accept that, but we'll gladly listen to what you have to say as long as you say it respectfully.

[SteveC]

SteveC sells templates. Wonder what he would say if people start saying 340 out of the 352 templates he sells sucks in public forums...


What I would say is great... which of the twelve would you like to buy...

But then I'm a professional... and Steve actually mentioned in his post that he wasn't talking about your business, but he was speaking generally.... much like many people do when they speak about website designers ripping them off... because there are good and bad in everything.

Coming to a forum and attacking someone shows just how unprofessional you are, you don't know how to deal with conflict and from that I assume you're new to business... especially if you think that by following such action you are going to win over people.... you would have done better simply coming here and saying... look guys I know you were speaking generally but we're different, what we do works... and I'll prove it to you.

That's how we sell both template based websites (our rental websites) and also our custom websites (prices start at $10K) and we've never had a problem selling them... in fact its more a problem of ensuring we don't take on too much.... perhaps you could follow this advice and who knows you may even gain some customers.

Darren, I don't imagine for a minute any of this will sink it... you're business could be the best in the world and I hope it is... however at the moment it you're attitude that stinks... and you know what they say about attitude.

[submit_articles]

If you say so...


What I would say is great... which of the twelve would you like to buy...

But then I'm a professional... and Steve actually mentioned in his post that he wasn't talking about your business, but he was speaking generally.... much like many people do when they speak about website designers ripping them off... because there are good and bad in everything.

Coming to a forum and attacking someone shows just how unprofessional you are, you don't know how to deal with conflict and from that I assume you're new to business... especially if you think that by following such action you are going to win over people.... you would have done better simply coming here and saying... look guys I know you were speaking generally but we're different, what we do works... and I'll prove it to you.

That's how we sell both template based websites (our rental websites) and also our custom websites (prices start at $10K) and we've never had a problem selling them... in fact its more a problem of ensuring we don't take on too much.... perhaps you could follow this advice and who knows you may even gain some customers.

Darren, I don't imagine for a minute any of this will sink it... you're business could be the best in the world and I hope it is... however at the moment it you're attitude that stinks... and you know what they say about attitude.

[Paul Elliott]

Here's a question for all you marketing experts. Say that I write an article and submit it to ezines, where it is accepted and indexed by Google and the other major search engines. Several months later, I take the same article, rewrite it enough to make it "new" (but still basically the same content) and pay $6 or $25 to have it distributed.

Is that a complete waste of $6 or $25, or is there enough benefit from either potential traffic or backlink value to justify the cost?

Or would I be better off submitting the "new" article to one article site myself?

David, not wishing to get scorched or at the risk of so being, I'll suggest a little different perspective. I believe inbound links are a relatively minor issue, IF the most important part of your process isn't working--conversion.

What is your conversion rate on the articles you've already submitted? Good? Poor? Zero?

Certainly, zero is not necessarily bad, it simply gives you more data for analysis. If your site/offer is not converting well, that is the place to focus your attention, IMO, rather than re-writing and re-submitting articles.

If you are converting very well, you should then test to see whence cometh the most easily converted and lucrative traffic. Keep in mind that the most easily converted traffic is not necessarily the most lucrative. This is one reason calculating the Residual Value or Lifetime Value of a customer is so essential.

By continuing the testing process, you can see what types of articles produce the most productive traffic to you in $$$. Certainly you should be doing split testing with your articles to see which ones produce, not only traffic, but paying traffic.

To your visitors who do not buy, do you offer something else of value behind a squeeze page, so you can get them into your funnel?

To me it matters little how widely an article is circulated or how many inbound links a site has, IF there is no conversion. Assess the most important things first and fix them.

Paul

[vangogh]

you can ban or delete my account for all I care

Don't worry I'm not planning on banning your account. People should be allowed to see your point and who you are.

I guess you aren't open to debate though. You seem more interested in attacking anyone who disagrees with you and you seem to keep trying to twist my words, so there's no point in continuing. Too bad. You had a good opportunity to talk about the merits of your services, but instead you chose to attack me personally.

[Spider]

Oh dear! I do seem to have kicked a hornet's nest! It has been enlightening, though, for me, if not for the participants.

Here's where I stand, as the dust settles --

1. I can see that one well-placed article on a popular and appropriate site catering to my market would probably be better than a random submission to many article directories - but I don't have an article written nor submitted to any popular and appropriate sites catering to my market, nor the time available to do either.

2. I can see the sense in doing many things - like, just to mention a few, writing and submitting single articles to single sites, blog posting, social networking, SEO and submission to random article directories - unless one undermines and/or negates any of the other efforts. Of those five, I do not see any one wrecking the efforts in the others.

3. My problem is not so much the efficacy of the various methods as it is the lack of time. (Of course, I have no less time than anyone else but I choose to use it elsewhere.) My original query also asked if there is a regular member of SBF who provides an article writing and directory submission service. Is there, in addition to Darren?

Furthermore, I now ask if there is anyone providing an article writing and submission to a single high-ranking site service? Really what I need is someone who can create an article out of notes and half-formed paragraphs, help me select a target site for submission and make the submission.

[vangogh]

Frederick I don't know if anyone here offers submission services. We do have several copywriters like Dan who could easily write the article for you. I don't believe mass submission to article directories is going to be effective as I've mentioned throughout this thread.

Are you asking for help finding one or two sites where you could submit the article or are you looking to submit to article directories?

[Spider]

I have Dan Furman in mind for writing an article and wondered if his service went beyond the writing to submission, whether to single sites or to directories. I have Kristine in mind if her service goes beyond blogs. And even you, VG, if your web design service stretched that far, too. Any regular member.

I gather your prefered method and Darren's prefered method are not mutually exclusive - as long as I don't try to do both with one article. One article to a single site and another article to multiple directories will give me the opportunity to see for myself which works best for me.

So, I am open to suggestions or proposals from any of you..

[vangogh]

Yep the methods are not mutually exclusive so you could do both. Just make sure the article is unique. Personally I would think you'd want a unique article to every article directory submitted to. I don't offer submission services since I don't believe in this method of marketing.

When testing allow enough time to pass and make sure you have a way to track the effect from each method. Know too that just because something works right away it may not still be working a few months from now.

[Harold Mansfield]

Dude (Submit Articles), I have never seen any of your posts and then all of a sudden you come out of nowhere calling the owner and moderator of the forum an idiot. It's one thing to disagree, especially if you have something to add or share, but a straight out attack on someone just because they don't agree with you is just juvenile.


First, you make yourself look like an idiot.

I am also one of those people that feel article submissions has passed it's prime and carries less weight than it used to, and article directories are full of more spam, than useful information.

Just because you run an article submission service, doesn't mean that people can't have a differing opinion about them. It doesn't mean that I don't wish you success, it's just not for me.

This is a forum, which means people are here to give tips and suggestions and most times that is based on experience. Most times there will be more than one way to skin a cat in the same thread, and if someone is posting asking for opinions and experiences, I am sure they are looking for all of them, not just the one that agrees most with your business.

I know on other forums, the discussions can tend to get a little more heated, but this forum is mostly grown ups who are IN business, and there are going to be various opinions, since there are a variety of businesses represented here, not just Internet Marketing.

Most times opinions and suggestions are based on the type of business that the OP is running, not just a general answer...it's not the same for all businesses.

You would have come off a lot more credible if you would have simply presented the pros of your services without the personal attacks, and reached out to the OP with some good old fashioned costumer service.

Welcome to the forum.

[vangogh]

Thanks eborg.

Thought I'd attempt to clarify my position here. If you go back a few years most people saw the way to rank better as more links. Get more links and you probably rank better. Quality did enter into the equation, but for many the goal was to get as many links as possible from anywhere.

When you submit an article to an article directory you would get a link back in the bio (and maybe within the article itself) Because you wrote the article and bio you could also control the anchor text (the clickable part) of the link. In addition to the link from the directory other people would download your article with links and add it to their site. So you could write an article, submit to a bunch of directories, and potentially have your article and links on dozens or even hundreds of sites. Lots of links for a small amount of work.

Fast forward a few years and the issue of duplicate content arises. Search engines don't want to present what is the same content over and over again in their results. That doesn't benefit the searcher to click 10 results all leading to the same page. So search engines might then decide which version of the content they think is the right one to display and ignore the rest. Google used to have what they called a supplemental index as opposed to the general index. They would put the content they deemed unimportant into the supplemental index. In order for a page in the supplemental index to rank there had to be no (or very few) pages to show from the general index. Duplicate content would find it's way into the supplemental index.

In addition pages in the supplemental index wouldn't pass PageRank. When a page doesn't pass PageRank it essential means the value of links from that page to other page is close to or exactly 0. A link from a supplemental page was therefore worth 0.

Personally I think the supplemental index exists as it always has and Google has simply removed all visible signs of it. For a time many SEOs were writing about it and I think we were able to begin to reverse engineer a few things. Google doesn't like that so they removed signs to the supplemental index. This is my opinion. Google will say it doesn't exist, but at the same time they say things that would indicate it still does exist.

Back to today. Google seems to be leaning toward ranking sites that are trustworthy, authoritative, brand oriented. Think of it as a having a choice of ranking a page from Dell or JoeBob's computer store. JoeBob may be a great person, but you probably have more trust in Dell as a known entity than JoeBob as an unknown entity. Quality is becoming even more important.

When you submit an article to an article directory the goal is still the same. You're expecting the link from the article directory site itself and hoping people will download the article for even more links. But every copy of those articles will be duplicate content. Google when choosing to rank one is likely going for the article directory. The rest of the sites hosting the content are most likely going to be very low quality sites. Think about it. They're downloading free content from a place where anyone could download the same content.

At best you get some links from low quality pages that probably don't pass any weight in the link. What you're getting now is really the single link from the article directory. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's one link and your article probably doesn't get read by anyway who's likely to turn into a client or customer. Also if you can get easy links that way so can your competition. If I can easily replicate what you did then you don't have an advantage over me.

Instead take that same article and spend a little more time making it really good. If you can find blogs or sites related to your topic with an audience similar to yours and get that article published on it you still get the same link and you've just branded yourself in front of your market.

Yes it will be harder to get your article on that one great site in your industry, but you can probably find some sites that would be willing to publish your content. Maybe not the top blogger in your industry, but the second tier. If you can't get your content published then go ahead and submit it Ezine or GoArticle. Then write a better article for next time.

If you submit the article to 100s of directories it's still duplicate on all but one. Also I may be wrong about this, but I believe many of the article directories are even linking out with nofollow or javascript. Don't hold me to that, though.

I couldn't see myself submitting content to article directories because there are simply better ways to use that content. If I couldn't get my article on my preferred site I would sooner publish it on my own site. It will probably do more good there.

Again none of this means you can't submit to article directories and maybe I'm wrong and the links will count more than I think they will. Still I think you'll get more value with your content by doing something other than submitting it to a directory.

[Patrysha]

Spider, I do provide writing and submission services (like Van Gogh described, not mass submissions) through my outsourcers, though I've only ever offered it to my offline clients. It usually costs a bit more upfront during the research stages than for later submissions (it's usually rolled into a complete marketing program). I have not separated out that service - but would be willing to negotiate towards that if you're interested. Hit me at info@pkmarketingsolutions.com if you are still looking for someone.