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Dan Furman
05-12-2009, 04:07 PM
Going to my monthly Toastmasters meeting tonight, and it got me thinking about networking / groups / clubs / and the like.

I'm not really a fan of networking groups where the point is to swap cards / leads / etc. I find them somewhat phony and dishonest - the only reason people are there is to "get business".

In my experience with them, I have found that there's no continuity - if business gets too busy or too slow, the person will stop attending. Thus, I find these groups filled with short-term people. New salespeople hustling for leads; the "here today, gone tomorrow" bodyshop; the "new to this" graphic designer, etc. I've belonged to a few of these in my lifetime (back when some of my sales jobs MADE me go), and I've never met a five-year vet. I don't like the vibe in the room, or the look in everyone's eyes. Reminds me of a new car salesman on the salesfloor... that "I need biz" look.

I know some of you belong to these groups - I don't mean to disrespect what anyone else does - this is just my opinion of them (and is ultimately worth every cent you paid for it).

This isn't to say I am against networking - far from it, really. I just think it needs to be done as a secondary thing. Now that I call the shots, if I'm going to join a group, it's because I find the group useful in an educational sense, or a social sense. If business comes out of it, fine; if it doesn't, that's fine too, as that's not the main reason I am there. I really, truly feel that you cannot be a true business success until you have this attitude.

I look at the Chamber this way - I like hanging out with other successful businesspeople. Once in a great while, I'll attend a mixer. Not because I want leads, but because I like shooting "business bull" over a scotch. I do realize people swap cards at Chamber mixers, but I think most can agree it's not a hotbed for leads. It's WAY more "meeting people" than "getting leads".

The Lions and Rotary clubs come to mind, too. The big players belong to these clubs. They don't go there to look for business - that's almost beneath them. Again, if business comes from it, fine. If not, that's fine too. I'm considering the Rotary (I've been a guest many times)... we'll see.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm going to Toastmasters tonight. Been a member for about 2 years. Out of all the clubs / groups I have joined, I have found Toastmasters to be the most useful. I was always a willing speaker, and was decent enough, but this club has really brought it to another level. From doing the "off the cuff" tabletopics to doing prepared speeches and evaluations, it forces you to communicate in an effective manner. In a very supportive, friendly environment.

I have a hard time believing that any businessperson would hurt themselves by joining Toastmasters. But again, it's not a place to look for leads, etc. But I think it can help your business better than almost any other group.

Any other Toastmasters here?

KristineS
05-12-2009, 04:29 PM
I don't belong to Toastmasters, but I do think you're right about joining groups to meet people and share experiences and not to get business. I'm not a joiner, but when I do join something I try to make it something that will be educational or enjoyable or which will allow me to be of benefit to others in some way. I'm not looking to secure business or leads, I'm looking to add benefit to the group. Along the way, I usually do pick up some leads or business, but that's not my primary goal, and I think that's precisely why other people gravitate toward me.

The same hold true with online networking groups. If you're just there looking for leads or to tout your own business, it quickly becomes apparent. Your agenda needs to be about connecting and helping, not about capitalizing on leads.

rezzy
05-12-2009, 04:48 PM
Ive found that going to social events, can often introduce you to people who can pass work your way. I think those associates are more meaningful then getting that one time job.

I think this is how the whole social networking thing works, if you actually connect with them, you reap bigger benefits then combing them for a lead. I dont mean to make this a social rant, but I think my method is good. When I look for people, I dont even think about making a sell. My first intention is to help someone in need. The helping helps me two ways. It shows my other people I know my stuff and gets my product in front of them.

They need me, its a plus if not I still learned something. But this method applies to anything where you no more then someone else.

vangogh
05-12-2009, 05:03 PM
Dan I think you have the whole idea of networking down to what it should really be about. It's not just networking groups. It's all networking. When people are networking solely for what they can extract from the network they won't succeed. When you go into it thinking about what you can contribute to others you will get something out of it.

What you describe with networking groups is the same as my experience, though in all honestly I went in with the same idea of exchanging cards and drumming up business. Online I've networked in the more positive sense of wanting to get to know people.

I think networking groups can be beneficial as long as the people in the group are there for reasons beyond gaining new business. That might be in the back of their minds, but it shouldn't be their only reason for joining.

huggytree
05-13-2009, 07:34 AM
im not in toastmasters, but have gone to 4 differrent networking type groups.

one was a LinkedIn networking meeting...completely worthless...it was full of unemployed job seekers

US referral network was a monthly meeting...they did not pass leads as part of the meeting...theirfore no leads seemed to be passed...i opted not to join. a friend is in it and never got a tip

Chamber of commerce is something i keep joining...i dont know why...i do get my membership dues back in business...usually 1 job a year....the only way i get that is to go to meetings....its alot of time to get $250 and break even....i am not planning on rejoining next year.

BNI has been fantastic for me!...you meet weekly and are forced to give tips...50% of the tips turn into jobs...the first year i did $48,000 and 6 months into the 2nd year and im up to $35,000 already...i have 28 people in my group and im able to come up with a tip or 2 each week...its not very hard when you have almost every trade or business type in your group.....there is a large turnaround....out of the 28 only 10 of us have been in over a year....being able to devote 1.5 hours every week it tough...plus you go through dry spells which can last 4 months w/o a good tip...then some months you get 3-4 tips which do work out....i barely held on during a dry spell last year.

Spider
05-13-2009, 08:49 AM
I am an ardent Toastmaster fan. I am currently a member of two clubs (down from 4 last year) and a fairly frequent visitor to other TM clubs. I think TM is one of the most valuable "social" clubs around, for business or personal benefit. However, that benefit doesn't come by way of business leads, I find.

I joined the local chamber of commerce a few years ago for the purpose of getting business leads and didn't get any. But, I realize now that I joined it for the wrong purpose. Those people that did get business through the chamber clearly joined to benefit the community, and business came as a result of their work and getting to know people in the various chamber activity groups. I suspect this is how it is with Rotary, Lions, etc.

To my way of thinking, networking is the ultimate business activity. It is the "higher ground" of business - where one uses one's abilities for the charitable benefit of one's community. Of course, you have to get enough paid business to be able to have the time for this "higher purpose." And, the great part about it is, if you do your networking well, you do get business from it and it is a much better sort of business with much nicer clients.

Most people fail to realize (until much later) that spending time in networking events is not for the purpose of getting immediate leads - with the exception of BNI, which is formalized around the lead-swapping aspect. I think the most important aspect of attending networking events is just to get to know people and to become known in your community - to become a little more famous.

The "secrets" of success are really not very secret. One of them is that we are all as successful as we are because of the degree to which we use success principles. One of those principles is to be known. Oprah Winfrey probably knows, and is known by, many more people than anyone on this forum, and I suspect Oprah Winfrey is more successful than anyone on this forum, by the same degree. If you want to become more successful (by whatever measure) you need to become more famous. Networking is one way to do that.

I love attending networking functions and barely talk about my business. I engage as many other people as I can and learn about their businesses. If they want to know about me, they'll ask and I'll tell them, but I go to gain friends and become more well known in my community. I haven't received any leads and don't expect them. However, I do believe I have made some helpful suggestions and offered some business advice when asked for, and that the businesses of my community are better for it.

Patrysha
05-13-2009, 09:33 AM
There are really only two groups in the small town I live in, The Chamber and the Rotary Club...no Toastmaster or BNI or anything like that. (Though a group of local small business women are talking about starting a casual club)

So I chose to join and get involved with the Chamber and it has been a good move for my business. More due to the visibility that it's brought to me and my business than anything that directly led from leads at Chamber events. For me it's always been about the visibility factor...in a small town word of mouth moves quickly and seeing me around town with Chamber related activities helps connect me with the people most likely to hire me for their marketing. (The other two businesses that do anything remotely like me are fairly inactive and non-visible)

Dan Furman
05-13-2009, 11:29 AM
there is a large turnaround....out of the 28 only 10 of us have been in over a year....

This is kind of why I have a distaste for these groups. The turnover is so high. It's just people hustling for business. With that kind of turnover, and the "required" nature of leads, it invariably means people are recommending people that they really don't know. I find that type of setting uncomfortable.

Not my thing, that's all (I realize it works for you, Huggy, so obviously keep at it if you like it.)

vangogh
05-13-2009, 11:50 AM
Most people fail to realize (until much later) that spending time in networking events is not for the purpose of getting immediate leads...I think the most important aspect of attending networking events is just to get to know people and to become known in your community - to become a little more famous.

Just want to point out that it works exactly the same online. People look to social networking sites to drive quick traffic, but if you go in looking to contribute to the community you'll eventually gain all the benefits of networking.

huggytree
05-13-2009, 08:37 PM
the BNI turn over is high for 3 reasons....the business succeeds and no longer has a need for BNI,they dont give tips/do a poor job, or are too specialized and are not needed very often.

we had a woman who was a 'dietician to the elderly'....yea i run into people who need that all the time....she still got tips...she was kicked out because she couldnt make the meetings.

yes i have to give out tips to people i dont know yet....but thats how you get to know them....yes, some are bad (25%).....then i dont recommend them again...if no one does, they drop out....someone new/better will join to replace them.

i think its great because people are almost forced to give tips...sometimes this causes them to give a tip with 0 chance.....it happens a few times a year...maybe 15-20% arent real tips....50% closing ratio is all i care about...its great.

Our chamber of commerce did a poll of locals...85% say they dont care about supporting local businesses.....Walmart/Home Depot moved in a few years ago....the small downtown is 1/2 empty....why should i join a local chamber who's community doesnt care at all about local business.....i shop at walmart & Home Depot too....i dont care about the little guy either in my shopping habbits....i just dont see a need or purpose of the chamber........they all take your cards and i assume they throw them out on the way out the door......they arent friendly to me when i go to functions...i have to always be the aggressor in starting conversations.....with BNI they come at the new guy like a pack of hungry dogs....they are there to network and the motto is 'give business to get business'....

Dan Furman
05-13-2009, 08:47 PM
why should i join a local chamber who's community doesnt care at all about local business.....i shop at walmart & Home Depot too....i dont care about the little guy either in my shopping habbits...

I'll bet you price shop people, too. :)

huggytree
05-14-2009, 07:35 PM
I have price shopped people in the past...definately...i was the type of customer i hate!

now i see value in getting a quality job done...i would always pick the middle bid and do.

when it comes to buying physical items (appliances, cars, furniture)...i still shop for the best price only...

When i buy parts for my plumbing business I always buy a quality part, but i pick the supplier who gives me the best price on that item...i ask others to match or beat it

Dan Furman
05-14-2009, 10:21 PM
Just my .02, but I believe there's a kind of Karma to things like this. I generally don't price shop for anything - I believe in paying for the highest quality I can reasonably afford.

This doesn't mean I throw money away, mind you, but I believe in top quality and consistency on both sides of the business transaction, in all areas of my life. I believe this comes back to me in business - not by some magic, but because I am consistent, and am a guy that TRULY believes in quality - not just when I'm on the receiving end of the dollar. It just permeates into everything I do. For example, I don't ask others to price match because *I* don't price match.

By the way, I use the most expensive plumber in town. But they show up the same day you call, they do a great job, etc. Yes, they charge $50 to just come out, and they are 20% higher than most, but they always show up, they always finish, and the work is first rate. They must be doing something right, because they are easily the biggest name here, with trucks everywhere.

huggytree
05-16-2009, 06:27 PM
the most expensive plumber around here is 2x or more per hour.

they also come out that day , charge for the estimate....customers complain about them constantly for ripping them off....but somehow they keep charging $3,000 to do a water heater on Saturday and they stay in business....ive been in plumbing school with some of them...they only know service work and dont know the plumbing code...they get bonuses when upsell(smart idea).

Mozzy
05-18-2009, 01:59 PM
I have been debating joining Toastmasters but I have an issue with speaking publically. I am fine around forty or so people or so but the idea of speaking to a giagantic crowd freaks me out. We used to have an NSA member help pomote us but now we don't hence whay I considered joing.

In regards to networking groups, around here at least, there are to many and I feel like the ones like BNI and LeTip really focus on building strong relations and are great but if you have a busy life or lots of other obligations the demands can be stressful IMO. Also, the price to join a bunch of them can be overwhelming.

Personally, I think the way to go is to look for events online in your local area, networking, classes, mixers etc. and feel out the waters. Also, check which chambers you've got and find ones that are close and comprehensive over other networking groups if that exists in your area. In my area I joined a group that helps small business for only $125.00 a year and they have tons resources, classes and events so you can pick and choose as your schedule permits and you can volunteer at events if you like. I went in, as others already said, with the mentality of what I might be able to do for others and it has been very rewarding. When you do find someone you like by all means join but I would say that fully immersing yourself with one group/network community/chamber is enough and maybe have a tertiary one on the side if you are allowed to be that loosely commited. If you have an employee or two that's great. They each can join their own groups and that way no one is over commited and you can maximize your connections.

vangogh
05-18-2009, 03:08 PM
I am fine around forty or so people or so but the idea of speaking to a giagantic crowd freaks me out.

I don't think you're alone. Most people prefer not to speak in front of large groups. Not that I do it much, but I've found if you focus on one or two people and mostly deliver your talk to them it helps. You want to move your eyes around the whole room, but keep coming back to a few supportive people.