forum marketplace

[rezzy]

I would be interested in seeing forum marketplace. I know this can lead to spam and being over run with people just trying to publicity.

I am thinking about a place, were we can see what all users here can offer. Not a spam thread, but something more controlled.

I find myself looking for something, but because the forums dont allow me to connect with in our ranks, I go outside to another company.

I would really like to give my business to someone within our ranks.

[Spider]

I agree. It would be easy enough to do and in a way that curbs span.

A thread, made Sticky, in the Community Talk/Introduce Yourself forum, in which members with more than x posts (or more than x rep points) can post once per month stating what they do, or what they are doing now, or what they would like to do for members, in no more than 100 words.

One thread
Sticky
One post per month
Members with more than 20 posts (or more than 15 rep points) only
A limit of 100 words.

[cbscreative]

I like the idea, but we need to have a good way to implement it. The post requirements sound good in theory, but that comes with its own set of problems. I'm sure the other admins will want to weigh in on the idea too, but we have had similar discussions about how we can make the forum more useful to members. We're always interested in ideas like this.

[vangogh]

It's something I want to do down the line, but have to figure out a good way to implement it. I don't like the idea of sticky threads because then the forum would soon just show sticky threads and you'd have to scroll forever to get to the actual posts.

I was thinking more of a directory of sorts and inclusion might be based on post count or even a small monthly fee. I'd like it to be something that can benefit everyone here. It's something on the agenda, but don't expect to see it soon because of time constraints. There's only so much time in the day and working on things here is essentially my free time.

[Spider]

... don't like the idea of sticky threads because then the forum would soon just show sticky threads and you'd have to scroll forever to get to the actual posts.... I wasn't clear - I suggest one thread only. One sticky thread to which each person who wishes to post posts once per month. This has only one thread *stuck* at the top and all the rest are normal introductions as currently.

I don't like the idea of a directory because that would have to be separate and hardly anyone would go there if it is not a thread within the forum. I can't see a directory getting used much. Besides, that would take work to create and maintain. A thread within the forum, as I suggested, would require no addition work on the part of the moderators, and, in fact, could be started right now by any registered person inclined to do so (except the sticky part.)

[vangogh]

One sticky thread is definitely different than many sticky threads. I'm still not sure it's the right way to go. A couple of things I've noticed about forums over the years. Sticky threads are usually the least read threads. People don't read them as often as you might think.

I think the thread would end up looking very spammy as an endless list of what would essentially be ads. And I doubt people would really read them all. My guess is only the first few or the last few would ever get read. I think we'd still have to moderate the thread too. As much as I like everyone here it wouldn't surprise me to see the posts push things more and more.

Ultimately I think there are going to be better ways to set something like this up thought it will take some time to sort out the details and find the time to work on it.

[Vivid Color Zack]

I'd definitely abuse it.

Just to say it up front.

[rezzy]

I was thinking in a much more controlled sense. One person compiles the list and manages it. The thread is essentially locked, and one person manages the listing. Controlling and updating the information.

Cutting out the potential for spam and other useless garbage. And every so often, remove the users who arent active or whatever criteria established isnt met.

[vangogh]

I still think there are better ways to do this other than listing people in a thread. Sticky threads really don't get read that much and once the thread starts filling up the only posts that will get read are the first few and the last few. I don't think it will be an effective way to promote each other.

[rezzy]

I understand your thoughts, but I was thinking one person would manage a master post. Instead of a hundred threads. And that person would organize the one thread.

So, there wont be the multiple posts and stuff.

[Spider]

Of course, this could be tackled from the other end entirely --

The objective, I think, is to enable everyone here to hire or buy from other SBF members when they need some goods or service.

All that person needs to do is start a new thread that says-- "I want to buy 25 laptop computers with WillyWops Home Office software installed." Or, "I want to hire a web designer who has experience with major league pinball teams."

They can do that right now, with the current forum software - no plug-ins, no hacks and no additional work for the admins. By requesting, they are not advertising and neither are the responders, so no rules are broken and no moderation is needed.

IOW, we don't need a directory, a new forum or anything more than we already have.

[sigh] Life could be so simple. :D

[vangogh]

Frederick that's kind of what I'm thinking. I don't see a single dedicated thread being any more helpful than what we already have. Most people have the relevant info in their signature already and I don't think it's that hard to figure out who does what while we're still relatively small.

I do think at some point a directory of sorts (maybe directory isn't the best word) would be useful. Maybe it's more something that makes it easier to search profiles or some other way where it would be quick and easy to find all the accountants on the forum. I think there could be something that would be useful to all of us. I just don't see the dedicated sticky thread being that way.

[rezzy]

Although I like the alternative, I think it promotes gross amounts of spam. As people try to self promote.

It would take real consideration to make a viable system that would allow trade skills and products. We dont want it to become, the join the forum and post once in the marketplace and never return thread.

I really dislike those type of posts.

[vangogh]

I want to keep away from that sort of thing too. I have some ideas in mind, but at the moment they're still just ideas. At some point I'll flesh them out more and see what I come up with. I want to create something where both the forum and members in good standing can both profit. I don't want it to be something that becomes an advertisement for anyone, but for the people who really contribute here.

[KristineS]

Forums with Help Wanted (or something to that effect) sections can get abused and sometimes do become repositories for tons of spam posts. So that's not too attractive.

I kind of like the idea of an SBF marketplace or something, where people could list their services, maybe have a small display ad if they chose. I'm not sure whether this would be a free service with a premium add on or what, but that's one way we could go.

[vangogh]

Yeah, the trick will be to create something useful and valuable for contributing members while keeping the riff raff out. As long as we moderate what goes in and have some requirements in place in order to be listed we should be able to control the latter.

Maybe we could take some cues from the local business listings of search engines and have a way to provide reviews and offer some more details about the business beyond a simple URL or contact info.

[rezzy]

Sounds like a good collection of ideas. Now we wait for them to flesh out.

Steve, you got quite a number of projects on your plate.

[vangogh]

Too many projects. My first should probably be to clone myself so I can start working on them all.

I do have things prioritized, which is why some things may not happen here right away. There are plenty of ideas floating around for how to improve this place. My thoughts were that it made more sense to grow the membership first first so for the moment I'm content posting and trying to help the forum grow.

If you want to see more stuff happen here promote us more so we grow and then I'll have to rearrange priorities. :)

[Blessed]

Steve - cloning ourselves must be a common thought these days - I said the same thing to my sister the other day :)

I like the idea of a "Marketplace", "directory" etc... it would be nice to think "hey, I need a..." and be able to search easily or go to a specific spot in the forum and find whoever we need quickly.

Spider is right though - all we have to do right now is post "hey I need..." and we'll probably get a response from a fellow member.

[vangogh]

Funny. We're thinking a like. Of course if we did clone ourselves you know our clones would just come up with new ideas and then want to clone themselves too. :)

I think it would be good if there was a way for someone to come here and quickly search to find all the accounts or the copywriters or whatever and be able to then quickly see some of their posts to get a feel if any is the right one to hire.

Maybe I should start looking for any addons that already do part of this. I'd bet there's a directory addon out there for vB and maybe I could customize it some.

Ok it's been added to my to do list. Now who's going to clone me so I can actually start crossing things off my to do list? :)

[Patrysha]

Sorry no cloning ideas...unless you have access to the Great Gazoo. But all you'd get are dum-dums and yes-men. Not sure that would help you much.

[rezzy]

I think it would be good if there was a way for someone to come here and quickly search to find all the accounts or the copywriters or whatever and be able to then quickly see some of their posts to get a feel if any is the right one to hire.


That was my first idea, but implementing it could be trouble.

Didnt know vb allowed plugins.

[vangogh]

Patrysha sadly Gazoo is not here. He's out with Fred and Barney at the moment.

Bryan they aren't called plugins for vB, but there are addons or modules or whatever the vB world calls them. Not quite the same as WordPress though. It's more that someone figured out how to do something and then offers the code and tells you where it goes in the template. Some are things you upload and install, but others are still manually adding code in the right place.

[Vivid Color Zack]

I think part of the problem with going with more of a "Wanted - XYZ Services" type ad is going to be the influx of tons of unrelated spam. Look at almost every other deal forum out there. Someone posts a deal about free chicken and then under that someones selling tennis shoes, under that the new boostmybrain energy drink, etc...

There's got to be a "right way" to do it spam free, but it's going to take a lot of trial and error or some serious brainstorming.

[vangogh]

Yeah. In the end the only way to get rid of the spam is to moderate it. Automation will never catch all. The idea of there being a small fee would probably eliminate most of the spam, though it would probably end up in other sections of the forum instead.

It could be a reward system where certain members are invited at the discretion of the staff or after a certain number of posts.

Ultimately I'd like it to be something that can benefit the forum itself and also the members who are listed. I'm thinking it won't be the kind of thing where everybody gets included, but I am thinking it should be the kind of thing where it's easy to search those that are included and offers them benefit and ideally leads to more business for them.

[KristineS]

As much as we dislike it, there will always be some spam. We, you especially Vangogh, do a pretty good job of catching it though. Plus, I think a marketplace could bring enough benefit that a little spam would be a minor price to pay.

I do hope we pursue this idea in some form. It's a good one.

[vangogh]

I think we'll definitely pursue the idea. I've already added it to my to do list. When I get a chance I'll see what add ons are already available for vBulletin and see if any are close to something that might work.

[dynocat]

Another vb forum I belong to has a Marketplace forum with limited access to members with over a certain 250 posts and 90 days. It is for sellers, buyers and traders.

Here's one vb mod available, Buy Thread: Pay to Post New Thread (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=116605&highlight=sitepoint) with a pay to post set up. There are probably more. It's just one I found quickly.

iTrader is another mod to handle buyer/seller/trader feedback.

[vangogh]

Thanks for the link. That kind of marketplace might be something to set up. Looks like it was for an older version of vB, but I'm guessing it's either been updated or could be or maybe even works as is. Might be something to use to get started and then customize it more how we want.

I do know about iTrader. We use it the webmaster forum where I admin. Seems to work ok, though there is some abuse to the system at times. Mostly seems to work pretty well.

[ndlandis]

I was wondering about this also. I am a virtual assistant and there is a va forum that I am also a member of. That forum has a section caleed RFP's (Request for Proposals) at the top of the page where the FAQ and members list is. It took me a little while to figure out what the heck an RFP was! Ha!
Anyway, this section is where members with a certain number of posts, 50 in this case, can post essentially an ad for a job or service that they need done. Also, only members of a certain level can view and respond to the RFP's. It's kind of the opposite of the sticky thread everyone's been talking about. Well, just my two cents. I would love to see some kind of section to promote ourselves and each other, but I understand the time restraints and the spam potential.

Norma
Quest Virtual Assistant Services

[vangogh]

Norma could you send me a link to that other forum? It's ok to post the link in a post here or if you'd rather just send it to me in a PM. I'd like to take a look at what they're doing in order to figure out what to implement here.

I definitely want to add some kind of marketplace. It's unlikely to happen any time soon but it is definitely something I'd like to add.

[rezzy]

I want it now!! I need you to drop those other projects and do this one. ;) Thanks.

You ruling King of SBF (small business forums)
-Rezzy

[vangogh]

Demanding aren't we? :)

[ndlandis]

Here ya go! I'm not sure how much of it you'll be able to see unless you're a member but give it a shot. I'd be happy to look up anything you can't. Glad I could help! It's nice to finally be adding to the system instead of just asking questions all the time! Ha!:)
Virtual Assistant Forums (http://www.virtualassistantforums.com)


Norma

[vangogh]

Thanks Norma. I can see the RFPs link at the top and I can see the RFPs listed. I can't click into the actual details of each, though it looks like I can register for free. I have a friend who's thinking of starting a VA business so maybe I'll have her register and then login with her info.

I also see they have a directory where VAs are listed by location and specialty. I'm guessing inclusion there would also be based on the number of posts or standing of each member. Do you know if there's a charge at all or is it all based on the number of posts?

I like the general format they have. Directly + Classified Ad (RFP). That's more along the lines of what I was thinking here. They have the advantage that everyone is in the same business, though I suppose our advantage would be in the diversity of the members.

How would people feel if we set something up similar where we have a directory and also a place for classified ads. Maybe we could set something up where it would cost $x for a listing, $y for an ad, with fees waived or reduced for members who've reached a certain level of standing, probably based on number of posts. The charge would keep spammers from being included and the post count could be made high enough so that it wouldn't be worthwhile to leave a bunch of hit and run quickie posts just to get into the directory or place an ad.

Just brainstorming, but does that sound fair to everyone?

[rezzy]

That sounds fair, just as long as the post count isnt something like 5,000.

I reserve a bigger statement until I can think about it, but thats my first thought.

[KristineS]

I think that sounds fair. As you said, that will keep the spammers from infiltrating, but won't make it prohibitive for those members in good standing who want to be a part of the marketplace.

[vangogh]

Bryan I was thinking 4,999 :)

No it would be something much lower. I had another idea last night where you'd earn credits toward posting an ad or a directory listing the more you posted elsewhere. Say every time you post 50 times you earn $5 credit for the marketplace.

[rezzy]

Steve, that sounds like a great idea. By keeping the post count high, it should discourage spammers from attacking the forums to get an ad.

4,999 not even you have that many posts. ;) at least not yet...

[vangogh]

Wow, I am closing in on 5,000 though.

I still need to figure out how to set this up. I'm assuming there are one or more modules that will do everything we need and then I'll have to figure out the details on the post counts and any money to find something fair to everyone and help keep the spam out. The more spam free we can keep it, the more valuable it is to everyone.

[Spider]

Another way to qualify for posting an ad might be to use the Rep points. Even a semi-spammer (a person who posts frequently somewhat-relevant posts which are only excuses for adding their link) can build their post-count. But they cannot artifically increase their Reputation count.

The Reputation system seems to have no real purpose on this forum. It could be used to reward people who contribute the most value - as determined by the community - with advertising privileges.. This will likely increase the quality of the advertisements for the rest of the community, too.

Personally, I would rather see a searchable directory of participants stating what they do, so that someone (member or not) could look for a particular service or product they want to purchase. I think a directory of all of us would be more useful than a place to advertise.

[vangogh]

Rep points might be another way to do this. They can be spammed, but no more so than post counts and it would take more work to spam them. The rep system at most forums doesn't really serve any great purpose. All it's meant to do by default is to serve as another way to say thanks. Some people will add rep instead of saying it in a post or maybe they'll do both. A few years down the line someone not familiar with the members can see the rep points and perhaps it gives them some clues about who's opinion to listen to. We all know your rep isn't any real indication of the relative worth of your opinion, but in some respects it could serve that way.

I think both the directory and a classified system could be useful. I'm not thinking one over the other, but rather both in some way. I'm not sure if they would be part of the same system or if they'd be separate things. Some of this will depend on what modules are currently available for vBulletin and how easy/difficult it will be to either modify one or code something of my own from scratch.

[jamesray50]

Since I have joined this forum I have received a lot of helpful advice and have enjoyed reading all the comments everyone has made. I read all the new posts every day, but don't necessarily comment if I don't have anything of importance to add to the discussion. But I like this forum better than any other forum I have been a member of, and one of the reasons is because you all do answer my questions. Therefore, when I was looking through the categories for where we could post our services or products, I was surprised we didn't have one. Most forums of this type do. After reading all your posts in this thread I understand why there isn't one, but if I wanted to hire someone from this forum to work on a project for me, where would I post this request?

[Spider]

Wow! We talked a lot about this back in 2009, didn't we?! I think we get to know each other and our individual skills just the same as in any other group - by interaction. It probably doesn't need a separate directory or a specific thread. Just let it run as Jo Ellen proposes - if you need a particular service, just ask. Start a new thread at The Water Cooler, ask for what you want and wait to see who pops up.

[jamesray50]

Sounds like a plan to me. Thanks.

[vangogh]

I guess most of us who have been here awhile do know each other and with all the signature links it's not all that hard to figure out what everyone does. On the other hand some kind of directory or marketplace would be nice. The last year or so didn't give me all that much time to set up some things here that I would like to do, though I'm hoping 2011 will be different. There are a bunch of things I'd like to do with this place and I'm trying to move them toward the top of my to do list.

I definitely don't want to set up something that becomes a spam haven so I can't see opening a directory to everyone. I think it would have to be either a pay to get in thing or based on reaching a pretty high level of posts. Something to keep out the spam. I'm open to ideas, but the pay or posting requirements seem like the best way to keep out the spam.

[Spider]

One-time payment or monthly/annual? The problem with post count and annual payment, someone could get their count up to level, get in the directory, then stop participating. Likewise with a one-time payment. I would think the directory needs to be for people who participate and continue to participate. And how would you maintain that without a lot of work watching and checking.

And besides, who's going to use it? Who is going to look in the directory for a service provider. If one is active in the community, one is known to other active users. So a directory would likely be used mostly by strangers, and how many of these would you expect to use it?

The lack of a directory might be considered an incentive for new visitors to join the community and participate to find the people they would like to hire. And the lack of a directory is an incentive for the people who want to be hired through this forum, to keep on posting - and posting useful, credible stuff.

There's always more than one side to anything. Beware of unintended consequences.

[vangogh]

The post count could be considerably high. Not something you could get in a week or month. High enough that to get listed you would need to genuinely contribute for a long period of time. If someone did that and then stopped posting once they got listed I wouldn't mind. I'd be considering that option as a reward for having contributed. We could also set some kind of monthly post count beyond the initial count to stay in the directory or something like x number of posts gives you a listing for y months or something like that.

Payment would more likely be $x for y months of listing. We could also set up a payment system that still allows rewards to contributing members. After x posts you receive y credits to spend or something like that.

Either option keeps spammers out. They won't pay and they'd be highly unlikely to ever reach the post count since we generally delete useless posts aimed at increasing post counts.

The reason someone might want to be in the directory is because it could more easily be promoted in general than promoting each of us individually and it would present a quicker way for anyone to find out who offers copywriting services and who offers business coaching services. Imagine a system where someone who's only recently found us is interested in hiring a copywriter. They visit the directory and find the handful of copywriters listed each with links to their profiles. The person could then check posts and threads by the different members and make a reasonable choice of who to contact. Ultimately the system could be one where anyone listed potentially generates more business from people visiting the forum. it would be a quicker way to find potential service providers and product vendors than spending time reading posts day after day. For those of us who are here most days we might not find it helpful, but keep in mind those of us here each day aren't typical of all the people visiting the forum.

[Spider]

Great! It sounds like a workable system - it also sounds like a lot of work to maintain unless you can automate all the checking, the post counts, the monthly posting, the expiration dates of the various breakpoints, etc. Sound like a job for a programmer.

[vangogh]

it also sounds like a lot of work to maintain

One of the reasons it's not here yet. :)

I think there will be ways to automate much of the maintenance actually. I know there are vBulletin addons to add a directory. There are also some to set up a Marketplace. None might do exactly what I want so I may need to customize the addons or use one as a starting point to develop my own or just hire someone to do the work. First I have to figure out the best way to set these things up. There's definitely a way to create a workable solution. Ideally I'd like to create a system that can both bring money into the forum as well as have a way to reward people in the community. Looking for that win-win solution.

[Harold Mansfield]

My 2 cents since I missed the original discussion:

I have never seen a marketplace on a forum not become a constant barrage of solicitations, unprofessional behavior, unscrupulous offers. I guess a paid option would cut down on that, but I like the way things are now. Without it, it completely removes that element of trolling for customers and we just talk normally.
I think with it, it just opens up that element of having members that are solely here to solicit business and takes away from the honest discussions that we have now.

The way it is now, none of us have a problem checking someone out via their sig and contacting them privately if we want their services. I kind of like it that way.

Just my opinion.

[Spider]

I kind of like it that way...So do I!

[vangogh]

I hear you Harold and that's one reason you don't currently see a Marketplace. I think there could be ways to make it work without generating any more spam than we get without one. Payment of any kind eliminates the majority of spam. I don't know that I'd want the usual type of marketplace, but I would like to find something that could bring in some money to the forum as well as bring money to the membership of the forum. I'm not quite certain what that is yet.

[Spider]

If you want a Marketplace, I have seen this work well --

1. A separate "Classified Ads" forum.
2. The posts appear as normal when the Classified Ads forum is opened from the Forums menu but the posts do not appear in the 'New Posts' or 'Today's Posts' listing. That means we avoid the daily disruption that occurs with even the little bit of spam we get here. And it means the ads are available to anyone who want to see them - by opening that forum.
3. Only members with 100 or more posts are permitted to leave a classified ad. Everyone is allowed to read them.
4. Members who are permitted to post cannot post more than once a week.
5. Spam is still deleted but if 100 posts are necessary to post, not much of it is going to be spam.

[vangogh]

I think something like that could work, though I think a classifieds section is something different than a marketplace. At least they seem to be different when used on a forum. Similar for certain, but they end up being implemented a little differently.

This isn't anything that's on my immediate agenda, but I'm glad we're talking about it since it is something I'd like to do at some point.

The idea of a post count is interesting. I'm not sure we'd need it to be 100. Someone with 20 posts should also be allowed to post an ad. Naturally the lower the post count the more potential ads and the more potential money it brings. On the other hand a lower post count would lead to more spammy ads and maybe eliminating spam would ultimately lead to a better overall system creating a more desirable system and hence more money.

I'm still thinking of a system where you can purchase credits instead of directly paying for an ad. That would provide an easy mechanism to reward people for different things since I could manually give them credits. It would also allow us to use the same system for other things we might create after a classified/marketplace.

[dojo]

Use the promotions feature in VBulletin. You can set the new category too allow access to people with over 20 posts, so that you can wade off the spammers and people who don't contribute. I've done this on my forums and it works perfectly.

[vangogh]

I was thinking either that or one of the addons that do mostly the same thing. Some of the addons offer a little more control than using the promotion system, but either should work. it's more deciding how I want to set it up and also finding the time to set it all up at this point.