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farinspace
04-20-2009, 11:59 PM
Hello everyone ... I am a web application developer and am interested in create online business specific tools/applications.

This is probably not the correct forum to post this thread in but ill start here and hopefully some of you can point me in the right direction:

One specific aspect which I feel is very important for small/medium size businesses is the initial impression a client gets from a business ... obviously there are many points which lead to a good first impression and the specific nitch i am hoping to find out more about and perhaps build a tool to assist businesses, is the process of creating "proposals" either for b2b or b2c.

I am still in research phase of my project and want to gather as much information as I can about how your businesses uses "proposals"?

Additionally I would like to work with some of you who generate client proposals to help me properly define the need and help refine the functional aspects of such a tool by using it in your day to day operations (beta testers).

Thanks everyone!

orion_joel
04-21-2009, 12:27 AM
You may find this to be a crowded market in some respects. Two reasons mostly.

1. If you create something that is generic to any industry then it may be not a very useful tool. The most useful part of this type of program is being specific to the product range a company uses, and making use of all the potential suppliers to include the product information.
2. There are many different industry specific tools already available. There are at least two that i could name for the IT industry. There are others i have seen for other specific industries.

If this does not discourage you then look to do a few things.

- Focus on a industry that needs it.
- Align with wholesale suppliers or manufactures to be able to access product and pricing data to include directly in the program. (this is one way creators of the applications make money by creating the ability for the data feed and charging for it)
- try and pick an industry with little competition or that the competition really does not provide the best product.

vangogh
04-21-2009, 12:40 AM
Welcome to the forum farinspace. It's ok to ask your question here, though you may also want to post in one of the other sections as well since some you may get more response.

I'd agree with Joel that developing something for specific industries would probably work best as different business will have different methods of creating a proposal. If you are looking to do something more generic maybe build something that can be customized and then offer templates for specific industries.

Developing for specific industries is probably still best though.

cbscreative
04-21-2009, 07:49 AM
Welcome. I think Managing Your Business would be a good section to ask your question and get more feedback. We have a pretty diverse group here so it should provide some useful insights.

farinspace
04-21-2009, 11:01 AM
thank you for your comments ...

Joel, I do agree that begin specific is always best, the tool will be much more useful and you make your clients much happier this way ... I think the tool may eventually go in a few different directions to address specific business needs, to begin with I want to try to keep the tool basic with a useful set of features/benefits with ease of use, yet customizable ...

a tool i found online, and a good example, which is the direction im interested in at this point: http://www.eintelli.com/eproposal

The case studies i read for the eproposal tool depict the business environment im looking to gain insight about, emerging professional businesses in need of professional communication to their clients.

the goal: to allow small to medium size emerging businesses to quickly create professional quality, attractive, detailed and custom sales proposals for clients.

I'm just brain storming here, so any comments, thoughts, ideas anyone has are welcomed.

Thanks!

vangogh
04-21-2009, 11:22 AM
Are you looking to do something online like eintelli or were you planning on an offline application? I'm guessing you're thinking of something online.

One question I'd ask is who your target market really is. For example I couldn't see myself using something like what I see at eintelli. Seems to make a simple proposal a lot more complicated to me. In my business a prospect requests some work and I estimate how long it will take then send them a price for the project. The details of the request are almost always different and over time I've found the less I include in a proposal the more likely I'll get a yes to it.

I can see how the extra level of detail and presentation would be good for larger jobs with larger companies, but I generally don't deal with those kind of companies. That may just be me, but I wonder if it wouldn't be similar for a lot of smaller businesses.

Your market is probably a subset of small businesses instead of all small businesses.

farinspace
04-21-2009, 11:50 AM
vangogh, again thanks for your insight ... yes, I would like to develop an online application ...

I assume you are an internet/web professional, marketing and SEO related (i may be wrong, but your signature is my big clue) ... going with this assumption, You have a great detailed site, highlighting your business, with information articles which in itself can be viewed as an "online proposal", providing the quote and time estimates are the final piece of the cycle.

I guess what stands out in my mind: when I have to choose between two similar competitors, professionalism always plays a big part as to who i choose to go with, the simple things such as information sheets, articles, documentation all give me that warm fuzzy that I can "trust" this business and have a pleasant transaction.

I want the tool to be highly custom and flexible, to allow a business to mold it to its needs ...

vangogh
04-21-2009, 12:15 PM
Yep my signature was a big clue and you are right. I guess what I was saying above was specific to me. What I found in my business was being less formal leads to more business for me. It's not meant as a knock on your idea since I know there is a market for it. I don't think all the extras would work well for my clients. It's not uncommon for someone to contact me with a request for work that totals less than 5 hours. In that case it makes no sense for me to spend even a half hour creating a formal proposal.

Imagine spending a half hour to an hour putting together a proposal for 2 hours of work. Kind of silly.

I've also found my typical client doesn't need the information sheets and documentation. It would sooner overwhelm them than convince them. Most of my clients are repeat clients and don't even need a proposal anymore. We've developed a trusting relationship and they know I'll be fair with them. I also know how much they generally can afford to spend and if their request is going to cost more than usual I'll let them know before beginning work.

Again none of this is to imply your idea isn't a good one. It's just that I suspect my experience isn't that uncommon with other service based small businesses and you might want to think about refining your market. If my typical client was a larger business then sure I can see how they'd want the more formal proposal, but in my case my clients are often individuals like myself and they prefer a simple price quote in an email.

cbscreative
04-21-2009, 04:10 PM
I'm very similar to vangogh, but our businesses share several things in common. With guys like us, we also tend to be pretty resourceful with custom apps of our own, such as compiling code snippets to shorten development time on common site features, and referencing similar projects to estimate the hours of a project.

However, one thought I had was even if your potential client would not need a detailed proposal that might overwhelm their client, the following might be of interest to people who are less tech savvy than us. If you created something that tracked the details of each job and made future estimating easier, that would be useful for internal use. Then if you could customize some kind of "filters" that outputs a finished proposal with only the info needed to present to a client, you should be able to find people intersted in something like this.

I suspect their are many such products already out there, but if you find a unique approach or target a niche that would be likely to want your app, competition would not be a problem.

Since you apparently are new to business, let me share something I read recently that I really liked. I think it was the founder of Amazon who said it (not totally sure), but this attitude will help you when you do your research and develop a plan. "Don't focus on your competition, focus on your customers." There will always be competition, which is actually good and healthy. So you don't want to let the fact that you have competition stop you from entering a business. You are brainstorming and researching. That is a great start.

farinspace
04-21-2009, 06:06 PM
Thanks Steve, your comments are well appreciated ...

I often have problems estimating, myself ... and such a tool/module would definitely be a helpful one ...

The over all approach im taking is some what similar to the 37 signals approach ... http://gettingreal.37signals.com/toc.php (good read for application developers)

vangogh
04-21-2009, 06:52 PM
I read Getting Real not too long ago. I'll second the recommendation to read it.

I like Steve's idea for the internal tools to help with estimating. With the app you linked to earlier my favorite part was being able to see which parts of your estimate clients spent the most time looking at.

There are a lot of tools though that already help with the time tracking. My invoicing program allows me to create an estimate slip for hours on the project and then create an real slip based on hours worked to compare. For me it's usually about familiarity with the requirements. For example I've designed and developed enough websites now that I'm very good at estimating how long the next one will take.

Any info though you could provide for helping with estimates would be very useful. The better we all estimate the more money we ultimately make.

elsoft
05-05-2009, 10:34 AM
Hi farinspace.Welcome to the forum.Its been a great place to hang around and chat with geeks( can I say that?) like vangogh,cbscreative,rezzy and many others.Hope to read more of your posts soon.Good Luck.:)

vangogh
05-05-2009, 11:11 AM
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't mind the geek label.

elsoft
05-07-2009, 09:31 AM
And I am an aspiring geek.