Client's consultant doesn't know what he is doing...

[SteveC]

Here is an interesting problem…

We have a client who we have designed a website for… the website is finished and looks good in my opinion… it also feature on the first page of Google under his main keywords… all good, you would think?

Well, our client has been speaking to someone who consider themselves online marketing experts and they have actually sold our client on PPC advertising… for the same keywords he already ranks 1 and two in (I assume they advertise under other keywords as well)… Also, this so called consultant has sold him on shall we say tweaking the website so that it looks different, the keyword placement, etc… incorporated he wants all changed.

Now… having looked at this consultant’s website (it is not good)... my opinion is that he doesn’t know what he is talking about… he has sold our client on the basis that if he does what he says his conversion rate of visitors to sales will increase…. And I fear that the website will start to look less than professional and will also loose it’s Google rankings.

I spoken with the client briefly about this… and he is adamant that he wants to give it a try…

My question is this… is it time I fired this client or what else should I do…

[Steve B]

That's an interesting dilemma. If you can afford to lose the client - I would politely tell him you have a very different opinion, but respect the fact that he can certainly pursue any path he would like. However, you also realize that his decisions will always, to some degree, affect your company's reputation. So, at this point, you feel it would be best for him to have another company help him with his campaign.

One observation however, is that I am also willing to pay for the PPC on the keywords I already rank highly on in an organic search. If there is enough of a profit margin in the product - I just see that as hedging my bet by showing up twice on a page versus once. I also think that highlighted area gets more attention than the organic results.

I had a somewhat similar dilemma yesterday. A person called me to do an installation of a system that he had already purchased. I often do this for people, but in this case the guy bought a system that is a real piece of junk. I asked him if it wasn't too late to return it that he might want to consider it. I could tell he didn't want to hear it (probably because they have a very convincing website). I ended up giving him the price for installing it, but I'm considering turning the business away just so I don't have my name associated with the product that he chose. Unfortnately, I can't really afford to walk away from any business right now because the poor economy has definitely affected my business this year.

[KristineS]

If you strongly feel that the advice is bad, I'd tell the client that and let him know that, in your opinion, he's making a bad choice. Reinforce that he hired you for your expertise and point out the successes you've already had. Ask him if the other consultant gave him references or has any hard data to back up the advice he's giving.

If that doesn't work, I suppose it comes down to whether or not you want your company name and reputation associated with tactics that you believe won't work. If you don't, I'd tell the guy to look elsewhere for help in implementing his new strategy.

[yankeerudy]

Regardless of how well the PPC campaign goes, at some point it will end. At that point, if the new consultant's "tweaking" messes up your client's top organic rankings, they are SOL. But you already know that.

In your place, I'd vent here as you've done and then tell the client that it's their business and their free to pursue any strategy they feel will help them. If, however, they find themselves in a position later on where they want to improve their organic rankings, they should remember the results you delivered.

I'd also get my "SEO'd by" link removed from their site (if you added one).

[billbenson]

Also, if the ppc is AdWords, I personally feel an adwords campaign can hurt your ability to rank in the natural SERPS. I've seen posts by other webmasters that felt this as well. Maybe if you do some digging, you can find some forum searches that concur with that opinion and show those to your customer. It might convince him not to do anything right now.

[vangogh]

Adding ppc to the mix even while ranking isn't a bad idea. I've seen several studies that indicate ranking well in both leads to an exponential number of clicks. It's not a one link turning into two links resulting in twice the number or clicks, but more like a fourfold increase.

However, it seems silly to be messing around with the site when it's already doing well. There shouldn't be a need to make site changes to have a successful ppc campaign. At the most new landing pages could be created that would funnel people into the site.

As far as what you should do with the client it's a hard call. I'm guessing the client isn't essential to your revenue and financially you'll be fine either way. You might just let the client know that it's up to them what they want to do, but they should know that everything is going well now and that making the changes could lead to them not going so well. You might also point out that should that happen it will cost money to put things back and there's no guarantee things will be as they were before.

You might also tell them that it will likely cost more to put back the way it was since it will now involve untangling someone else's code.

In the end you'll have to make the call about whether or not it's worth continuing the relationship with the client. I generally express my opinion about what I think should be done on the site and explain as best I can the pros and cons. Then I let my clients decide since it's their site.

[theGypsy]

hmmmm.... If you are not under contract for the SEO then I don't see how any rankings loss would be an issue to you? And if the recommended changes put $$ in your pocket to implement... then win win...

As far as changes for conversions; that is the goal and we should all be working the 'continuous improvement model' - that being said, without proper analytics and split testing in place, no one can say which changes were 'for the better' - I would ask them if the marketing company has this in place... because that is how conversion optimization works....

On the topic of PPC... Steve is dead on and I covered some research a while back that does seem to support the fact that covering both bases is good for branding; SEO and PPC Make Great Branding Bedfellows (http://www.huomah.com/Conversions/Conversion-Strategies/SEO-and-PPC-Make-Great-Branding-Bedfellows.html)

In the end, as long as you are not liable for any changes (SEO or conversions) then I would simply bill them as usual and watch the festivities... you may be right and they tank... or learn something if it succeeds... no need to fire them IMO

[SteveC]

The issue I have is not with the pay per click, that is fine… the problem I have is that the consultant doing this wants to redesign parts of the website… supposedly to give a better click through rate however my experience is that… these pages are based on the direct mail approach and do not work online and some of the changes are just plain silly and are the consultants wanting I believe to tell us how to design… as I said to a colleague the consultant is simply justifying his existence.

And yes I am more concerned about being associated with this website once it has undergone these changes… and I’ve already personally called the client and told him all of this… leaving it on the basis that I will review the requested changes for a few days and then quote for the work if I agree with them and if not he can get someone else to redesign his website.

I have the list of changes… and I’m sitting on them for a week or so while I consider all of this.

Thanks everyone for there advice.... much appreciated.

[vangogh]

It's a tough call. Could you make the changes, but still dissociate yourself from the site? Or would that defeat sticking with the client?

My tendency is to let the client decide, but at the same time if what a client wants to do is so far removed from what I think we should do I figure I might not be the right person for the site anymore. That doesn't happen too often, though.

[SteveC]

You’re right these things don’t happen very often… and they are sent to challenge us… the problem I have I guess is being told by a consultant (that knows nothing and if I was to give you his URL you would understand)… what to do because what we have done with regard to the design, etc… doesn’t work from a marketing perspective and I know it is based on his perception however it is wrong.

I have already stated the obvious to the client, we have developed hundreds if not thousands of websites… we have clients all around the world and I can get as many as he likes to give him a call to give us testimonials… in fact the client is extremely happy with our services… he has just got it in his head to give this guy a go…

Hmm…. Interesting….

This actually reminds me of a different client, this client actually designed the layout of his website himself with a friend and it looked terrible… in fact it looked so bad we had the client sign a disclaimer stating that we took no responsibility for the website, the profitability, functionality, etc… if this design was used because in our opinion the would fail if it was used… the client signed the disclaimer.

Perhaps I should do something similar here.

[vangogh]

I can understand. I've had clients take the advice of people who I knew were giving them bad advice and wanting to change things I knew were working. It's hard, but I've learned to let go of my client's sites. It's their site and they can do what they want, which includes making big mistakes.

The issue of whether to stay with that client is another thing. And it's dependent on a variety of factors.

[theGypsy]

You’re right these things don’t happen very often… and they are sent to challenge us… the problem I have I guess is being told by a consultant (that knows nothing and if I was to give you his URL you would understand)… .

oooooo do PM the URL then :cool:





This actually reminds me of a different client, this client actually designed the layout of his website himself with a friend and it looked terrible… in fact it looked so bad we had the client sign a disclaimer stating that we took no responsibility for the website, the profitability, functionality, etc… if this design was used because in our opinion the would fail if it was used… the client signed the disclaimer.

Perhaps I should do something similar here.

Yeah, I have these issues on a few levels as I operate a SEO firm as well as a design/development company. Often times SEO clients have crappy developers and vice versa with the Web Dev clients...

In the end I remove my ego and operate as normal with business while stating my feelings on the issues with other providers. In the worst case scenario (for them) things go wrong and we end up taking over ALL of the client's needs (and we have a hosting co for those with crappy hosts)

I am in the business of creating revenues and will not easily pass them by on mere 'beliefs' - the customer is always right, my job is to offer professional advice. If they take it or not..... this is not mine to decide ultimately.

I can't see how you'd need to document to them that; 'if rankings/conversions tank we're not responsible' - considering your contract never stated you were in the first place. You voice your opinion and then make yer $$$... the rest is out of your hands.

..just sayin

[vangogh]

I'm kind of curious to see the URL too Steve. If you're up for sharing I'm good at keeping secrets. Feel free to send it in a PM if you want. Understandable if you prefer not to share.