Opening Day

[vangogh]

I admit it. I'm a seam head, or one who lives for baseball. Yes, I can recite stats from 100 years ago and will likely watch a couple hundred games between now and the end of October.

A couple games were played yesterday, but today is opening day for most of baseball. Every year I treat it as a holiday.

I don't expect anyone else to be celebrating Opening Day like I am, but are you excited for baseball and if so who do you root for.

Sorry New England. I'm a Yankee fan. I also root for the Rockies now that I live in Colorado and will take in a few games at Coor's Field this season. I'd really like to get back to New York though, to see the two new stadiums.

[Steve B]

I root for the Louisville Bats - Triple A for the Reds.

Major League baseball lost me in 1991 (after one of the strikes). It's been minor league ball for me ever since (Beaumont Bullfrogs, San Antonio Missions, and now the Bats). I got season tickets this year for the first time.

[vangogh]

Minor league baseball is fun to follow. I've seen a few minor league games in various cities throughout the years. I'm guessing the strike you mean was the 1994 one. The strikes suck when they happen, but I don't hold it against the sport. All that's going on is the same labor/management things that go on everywhere else in life.

For most of its history owners had complete control over players to a degree that was ridiculous. The players finally figured out how to get back that control. Now they negotiate at the end of every contract and sometimes strike. Yes it sucks and if it happens again I'll be as angry as everyone else. I'll still come back to the game though.

[Steve B]

I'll never come back to the major's. They lost me forever.

BTW - one of the strikes had disputes over drug testing - hmmmm I wonder why they didn't want drug testing in the 90's?? I remember seeing Sammy Sosa having an obvious "roid rage" when he stormed away from an interview when he was asked his opinion on drug testing. When nothing happened over that I knew the owner's and commissioner didn't care about steroid use and were in tacit approval of it. Good thing they didn't ask him his opinion on corking bats!

Anyway, not to change the mood of your post - yes, I'm excited about opening day for my minor league team.

[vangogh]

To each his own.

None of the strikes was specifically about drug testing, though testing has certainly been a part of negotiations. The owners wanted it and the players union didn't want it. They did ultimately agree to random testing for steroids and if the positive tests exceeded a certain level (I think 5%) then testing would continue. There were more than 5% positives and so the testing continues. While it's a shame that steroids have cast a cloud over an era, baseball is now testing far more than any other sport and probably has the stiffest penalties for failing a test.

The problem was ignored early on, because after the 94 strike players started hitting more homeruns, which brought people back to the game. It wasn't right, but it happened. Still more players were not using than using and to be fair to baseball this isn't a baseball only problem. Players have been using steroids in the NFL going back to the 70s and possibly even the 60s.

To me this time of year is all about possibilities and new beginnings. It's spring and in MLB most every team believes it has a the possibility of winning the World Series. The weather is getting nicer and optimism in general is in the air.

[Steve B]

Actually it was the lockout of 1990 that lost me - but I watched a little bit of the 91 series because the Phillies were in it. I didn't watch a complete inning until last year when the Phillies were in it again. I saw the last few innings of the last game.

I don't know the details of their new drug testing that has been forced upon them, but I seriously doubt it rivals the testing used in bicycling.

I hope baseball (MLB) can become a credible sport again - maybe my kids will enjoy it like I did. I hear you on the other sports - when too much money gets involved people do all kinds of things out of greed. I feel bad for all the kids and lower level players that have wrecked their bodies and didn't even get the big contracts - including football and all the rest.

[vangogh]

You may not think it's credible, but most people do. The majority of fans stopped caring about steroids and just want to move on. We want to know the sport is doing what it can to clean itself up. Most fans just want to see them play.


I seriously doubt it rivals the testing used in bicycling.

Hmm? Then why is it that every year at the Tour de France we hear of someone new being thrown out for doping. Clouds still hang around Lance Armstrong even though he's never tested positive. I think comparing baseball to bicycling is a little silly. The baseball comparison is better against the NFL, NBA, and NHL.

I think you made up your mind about the sport in 1990 and it doesn't matter what they do now, because you've already decided it's bad.

Oh well I did try to make this a positive thread about something I enjoy.

[Steve B]

Sorry. I'll stay out of of the thread - I know you meant it to be positive.

[vangogh]

You don't have to stay out of it. I didn't mean it like that. I was hoping it would be more positive, but the whole idea of the forum is for open discussion and we're discussing.

[Dan Furman]

I'm into it - big baseball fan (we discussed this in our e-mails last year, Steve... the late 70's Yankees and such). The Yankees are my team - have liked them since the early 70's (Thurman Munson was my favorite player as a kid - RIP 8/2/1979).

Yanks got beat today, but they'll be fine.

Actually, while I love baseball, I'm even a bigger football fan (fantasy football nut here). Sports in general are a definite hobby.

Let's play two!

[vangogh]

I watched the game on ESPN. I even have the Yes network now so I can watch all season long. For awhile it looked like they would come back, but it wasn't meant to be. In 1998 they started 0-3 and 1-4 so I'm not worried by an opening day loss.

I love football too, but it's baseball #1 and football #1a for me. I am a spotsaholic in general.

[KristineS]

I understand why you like baseball Vangogh, now that you've explained it to me, but I have to confess it pretty much leaves me cold. I don't mind watching a local game once in a while. We have a team here, the Beach Bums, (I know, dumb name) and they have a nice stadium and it's fun to see them play, but that's about all the interest I can muster up.

Mostly if I'm going to have any interest in sports at all it's because I make a connection with a particular player. My parents were big football and basketball fans so I have more reference points for those sports than I do for baseball, but unless there's a compelling story of some kind, I'm probably not going to be interested.

Was your family into baseball when you were a kid Vangogh? Is part of the reason you enjoy it so much because you have good memories from your childhood?

[vangogh]

I just love sports in general. Growing up in New York there's almost always one team doing well to get into from one of the major sports. My grandfather was a big Yankee fan. He watched Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig an Joe DiMaggio play. He passed that on to his 3 daughters (one being my mom) who watched Mickey Mantle and White Ford play. Oddly they didn't really pass it on to me all that much, though my parents did take me to some games.

I really picked it up on my own more and didn't realize the connection to my family until after I was a fan. My two favorite sports are baseball and football in that order. I guess there are good memories of baseball as a kid, but mostly I think it's beautiful game. No other sport builds drama the way baseball does. It also has a strong connection with its own history which I like. And through statistics you can compare players across eras. Most other sports change to the point where comparisons are difficult. Baseball still allows that.

[Blacktalon]

All I know (and care about) is that my Jays are kicking serious ass in the American League. Yehaw to a 2 - 0 record.

Yes, it's the first two games of the season. But this is the first time they've been undefeated in a hell of a long tim :D XD

Alright, I'm done gloating.

[the goat]

Big sports fan here, Beantown through and through. Sorry vangogh but I only have one thing to say... Go Red Sox!

Sabbathia looked good though huh? :D

[vangogh]

Sean you know it won't last. Though you do have one of the best pitchers in either league in Roy Halliday. Spring rumor had it he may not be with the team after the all-start break. Last year of a contract and wanting to win, though I think he'd prefer to stay.

goat you realize I can never help you with anything again. :) C.C is a slow starter. He was 0-3 and 1-4 last year with an ERA over 6.00 and look how he finished. I'm not worried. In 98 when the Yankees won 114 they started 0-3. April is for warming up for the rest of the season. I'm sure the papers in NY are panicking though.

[Blacktalon]

Well, that "undefeated" record was lost during one game this week, although the Jays won again yesterday (with a rookie!) 6 - 2.

Mind you, Detroit has always been a relatively "easy" team to play against; remember a few years back when their stats were something like 14 wins and 80-something loses? They just got lucky two years ago when they won the series ;)

Halliday is a boon that we definitely need; it reminds me of the roster during our two consecutive wins in '92 and '93 (one could count the '94 year: we were on the docket to have "won" it due to our record the two years prior...). with the return of Cito Gaston to the team, you can be almost certain that the Jays' performance can be partly attributed to that. Yesteday's win with a rookie shows that Halliday may not be the entire all-star for the team if things go well for Ricky Romero the same way it did for him on his rookie debut.

A former pitcher of the Jays is now playing for the Yankees. A. J. Burnett apparently is showing he knows his stuff with them. The Toronto Star says that, with Burnett, the Yankees are definitely showing they are the highest-priced team in the entire MLB.

The thing about 'roids is that you'll find them in pretty much every big professional sport. Look at the Tour de France. Look at the Olympics. I'm sure soccer and football are not completely virginized from roids.

Being able to hit balls that far or ride a bike nonstop over several hundred kilometres in one circuit...one would need to have some sort of "assistance" to maintain the stamina to do that. Unless, of course, someone trains for several hours per day and keep a regular high-protein and high-carb diet. But we all know that this is relatively impossible for level-headed sportspeople to do that.

But the wife and I are definitely going to get a few ball games in this year. We attended a few in '06 and they were fantastic. My then-boss gave me premium front-row tix; I had enough for four people, so we invited my buddy Cav and his girlfriend Debbie. I'm sure after the game they hit some of their own balls and ran a few bases, if you get what I mean.

On a sidenote, however, I feel obligated to mention that I have a soft spot for the Cincinnati Reds. I think it's because of their mascot and logo.

Hurray for the baseball-headed guy. That's ingenuity right there.

[vangogh]

You had to know the 'undefeated' thing wasn't going to last all season. I forgot Cito was back leading the team. The Jays have some talent. Unfortunately they play in a division that has a lot of talent. Hard to see them winning the division this year, but then again I wouldn't have picked the Rays last year at this time.

A.J. helped the Yankees win yesterday. Finally a good effort from a starter this week. I'm hoping he learned what he could from Halliday last year and now knows how to stay healthy. He's always had the stuff, but until last year he'd always missed significant time.

That's my feeling about steroids too. It's a world problem and not specifically a baseball problem. Baseball got the headlines about it and they looked the other way for awhile, but now they seem to be cleaning up the game as best they can. Some players will always try to cheat and there will likely be designer drugs to help them do that that can't yet be detected. But it's hardly a baseball thing.

The Reds are everyone's sleeper pick in the NL. I think they're still a little too young and not enough hitting to go with the pitching. Guess we'll find out how goof they are over the next few months.

[Blacktalon]

Bah. It was merely due to bad play calls ;)

Reds won a couple days ago 6 - 1 or something like that. Good on them. Jays' rookie pitcher is starting tonight. Actually, the game is on right now as I type this.

[vangogh]

I have to thank the Jays, particularly for turning around A.J. Burnett. Two starts two wins. The Jays look good out of the gate, but we'll see.

The Reds are the sleeper pick in the NL this year. Good pitching, but I'm not sure they have enough hitting. Might be a year or two away still.

[Blacktalon]

Doc Halliday is on the mound for tonight's game. Apparently the new Yankee stadium us up and open to the public. I guess for hardcore Yankee fans it's a bittersweet arrangement. The loss of an old icon and the "gain" of something new that could provide hope for further glory days.

It reminds me of the Toronto Maple Leafs when they closed Maple Leaf Gardens in favour of the Air Canada Centre some time ago. The building still stands and is abandoned, but it'll always be an icon of some sorts to fanatical Leaf fans of yore.

[vangogh]

I watched the first game at the new stadium on the MLB channel. Not a happy ending for Yankee fans, but the stadium is nice. There was a bittersweet feeling about closing the old stadium, but they did a really good job building a modern stadium while still keeping the connection to the past. I can't wait to get back to New York and go to a game.

It's still hard to know it's a new place. The old stadium had so much history and memories so until new memories and history are created in the new stadium it'll be bittersweet for many.

[Dan Furman]

I watched the first game at the new stadium on the MLB channel. Not a happy ending for Yankee fans, but the stadium is nice. There was a bittersweet feeling about closing the old stadium, but they did a really good job building a modern stadium while still keeping the connection to the past. I can't wait to get back to New York and go to a game.

It's still hard to know it's a new place. The old stadium had so much history and memories so until new memories and history are created in the new stadium it'll be bittersweet for many.

well, at least a Yankee got the first homer :)

[vangogh]

And the first hit.

And in an odd coincidence the first grand slam hit at the old and new Yankee Stadiums were both hit by center fielders for Cleveland. Tris Speaker, while playing for Cleveland, hit the first grand slam at the old stadium and Grady Sizemore hit the first one at the new stadium today.

[Blacktalon]

Jays socked it last night. Sweet grand slam too, making it a 9 - 2 victory for the boys in blue...and black.

Steve, you sure you don't want to change your sentiments towards the Jays?

My wife said that it's not good for the Jays to be like this so early in the season; their poor performance in the pre-season games pretty much allowed them to shake off their webs and fix their flaws for the regular season.

The fact that they got a grand slam so early in the season tells me that their hitting will be a force.

Also, for those who care, Cincinnati is/was at an even .500. I didn't catch whether they played yesterday or not.

Edit: Apparently they're going to be imploding old Yankee Stadium and auctioning off the parts to "hardcore" collectors. It might have been better for them to keep it and make it a landmark for historical and touristic purposes.

À bientot...

[vangogh]

I saw the Jays won again last night, but no I don't want to change my opinion. It's way too early in the season. A couple of weeks does not a season make. If the Jays are still there around the All Star break I'll believe, but 2 weeks into April, nope. Last year Arizona got off to the best start in the league over the first month. They didn't make the playoffs.

I think they're keeping the field from the old Yankee Stadium and turning it into a park or a museum of sorts. I could be wrong, but I thought the stadium around the field was going to be destroyed, but the field itself would stay.

[Blacktalon]

What the hell happened to the Yankees on Saturday night? 22 - 4 loss?! It's like we're witnessing Little League scores for the love of beef!

Jays' new rookie Romero is falling into place quite nicely.

You sure you don't want to change your opinion on the Jays, Steve? Come on, give in to peer pressure!

[vangogh]

Those big losses happen. Most every team will suffer something like that this year. In the Yankees case it seems to be the result of a Chien Ming Wang sinkerball that's not sinking quite enough.

I heard a stat you'll like about the Jays. Since Cito Gaston came back last year I think they have the best record in baseball. I'm still not ready to change my opinion about them making the post season, but I am open to changing my mind.

You always have to get toward the end of May before you really know how teams are playing. The Jays have a 2 1/2 game lead as I'm writing, but that could go away in a weekend series. So far though, so good for the Jays. Maybe Cito has brought some of the magic back to the team.

[Blacktalon]

Cito was the boon they've been waiting for for so long. Since he left we've been left with mediocre coaching at best, simply because no one knew the team and team dynamics like Gaston did (even despite having a completely different roster since he was last with the Jays).

Sure, scores like that happen, but to that degree and overall range? I'm not so sure. I remember seeing a 14 - 1 score or something to that effect in the last couple years, at least twice. Perhaps not exactly as written but there was a large range nonetheless.

Definitely hitting up a few games once the warmer weather c omes along.

On a sidenote, being a jazz fan and all, one of my all-time favourite artists, Pat Metheny, is coming to the Toronto International Jazz Festival this year. My favourite track of his is "Last Train Home." Absolutely fantastic.

Now onto something completely different (but related to baseball)...

[vangogh]

Those games do happen. Maybe not to every team, but don't be surprised. Won't shock me if the Yankees win won by a similar score before the season is over. 22-4 or 5-4 it's still one loss.

[Blacktalon]

Yes, but the scope of the loss is what matters. If it's by one point, then it's not as major as, say, a fifteen-point loss. The larger the loss, the more likely the team is very sloppy and unable to properly address their opposition. Compared to a team that either came from a several-point deficit to tie, but eventually loss, shows they are strong and can indeed return from a slump. If they lost by one, then they were just unlucky.

Now, on the flip side, if the team had a decent 4 - 0 lead, then let 4 runs in like that to tie it up, then for some reason let the other team slip another run in, then that's pure sloppiness. Unfortunately, we here in Toronto witness that a lot with our Leafs. Luckily for me I'm more of an Ottawa Senators fan.

A loss is a loss the same a win is a win. But I find more and more that it's the actual play during the game that matters. I'm sure if you took a team like Detroit a few years back and saw their scores for the season (where their stats were around 80~ losses and 12 or 14 wins), you'd probably see a very large range in scores. Not very indicative of a team that can survive or handle even the weakest opposition.

Yet on the surface, the # of losses paints the picture that the team or group is clearly not able to sustain themselves against opposition on any scale.

Behind Florida and LA, the Jays are third overall in the entire MLB. Hopefully this streak will continue well into May and beyond the All-Star Break.

Are you taking in a few games in the next while?

[vangogh]

You should check with the players. Most prefer losing big than losing by a run. The latter is harder to take since they know one little thing could have changed the outcome. It's harder to get over. Most will tell you when they lose big it's easy to just say it was one of those days and move on. Also you get down by a large margin and your pitching staff is less concerned with working the count and more concerned with throwing a ball you'll hit to get the game over quicker.

Now if they lost every day by a huge margin then yes it would be bad, but seriously most every team this year is going to lose at least one game and probably more in a blowout. Maybe not all by an 18 run margin, but it will happen.

Just a thought about why records at this time are only so meaningful. The Marlins are currently 11-2. They've also played the 2-10 Nationals 6 times. They're starting the season playing one of the worst teams in baseball so it's natural they're off to a good start. You have to give the league a month or so for teams to play a larger sample before knowing who really is and isn't good.

The Jays have played better competition, but they're yet to play another AL East team. At the very least we need to see how they play against the teams in their own division before anointing them division champs. They have looked good so far, but I like waiting till sometime in May before getting a feel for how a team's season will be.

[Blacktalon]

Halladay got hurt yesterday, leading to a 5 - 4 loss for the Jays. At least they still have a decent starter rookie in Romero to fall back on.

Florida lost 8 - 0 last night to Pittsburgh, and LA ended a winning streak of 8 games.

Oh how I miss the days of Ricky Henderson, Joe Carter and Kelly Gruber.

[vangogh]

Ouch. Hopefully he's ok. I can't root for the Jays given the division they play in, but I've always liked Roy Halladay. He's been the best pitcher in the league for years.

Don't look now, but the Yankess and Red Sox are right on your heels.

Maybe Rickey will make a comeback. I think he wants to play again.

[Blacktalon]

Ouch. Hopefully he's ok. I can't root for the Jays given the division they play in, but I've always liked Roy Halladay. He's been the best pitcher in the league for years.

Don't look now, but the Yankess and Red Sox are right on your heels.

Maybe Rickey will make a comeback. I think he wants to play again.
We aren't afraid of a few Yanks. Come now, we've lived North of you for so long that it's become habit and...oh. You mean the baseball team. Oops :D

If Ricky comes back I will officially have a public joygasm here on the forums. But isn't he in his 40s by now? Or at least his late 30s? Might be a bit risky for Ricky to come back after such a long hiatus. Unless he rejoined the little leagues for poops and giggles during that time away from the majors.

The only thing I don't like about Halladay is that I hope he doesn't become the Michael Jordan for the Jays: where one player pretty much keeps the team afloat for all their games. That's where the 92'/'93 roster was different. There wasn't just one person but rather multiple, so that if one got injured the team could still hold its own even with them not there.

Yet the way Romero keeps going I'm sure things'll be alright. That and BJ Ryan.

I have to confess that I'm a Lyle Overbay fan. Please, go easy on the judgements. I know it's hard to swallow...but please give me at least this one thing.

[vangogh]

We're gaining on you :)

Rickey is in his late 40s. It seems like every year he talks of making a comeback. A couple of years ago he was playing somewhere in the minor leagues and wanting to play for the Mets. I think he may still be a coach for the Mets, but I'm not sure. He's still in great shape and could probably contribute.

Check out the list of oldest major league players (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_MLB_players) Satchel Paige is listed as 59 in his last year, but I don't think anyone really knew how old he was. He might have been older. Currently Jaime Moyer is the oldest player at 46.

I won't criticize Lyle Overbay or the Jays. I think part of their problem recently is simply playing in the wrong division. Had they been playing in the Central or the West they probably make the playoffs a few times the last few years.

BJ Ryan is a good closer.

[Blacktalon]

You should check with the players. Most prefer losing big than losing by a run. The latter is harder to take since they know one little thing could have changed the outcome. It's harder to get over. Most will tell you when they lose big it's easy to just say it was one of those days and move on. Also you get down by a large margin and your pitching staff is less concerned with working the count and more concerned with throwing a ball you'll hit to get the game over quicker.
The larger the margin the more humiliating it is. They might not as well have showed up if that's the case.

Consider the scenario where the game was tied at 4 - 4 for 8 innings. And, for some unknown reason, the opposing team let a run in. A 5 - 4 final isn't so bad considering they were able to hold off any other runs to increase the gap between the scores. Holding on to a tie for a good portion of the innings, or blowing a lead, is bad...but losing by that large margin is just...blah.

Jays came out from their loss the other day with a win. They play Chicago tonight (White Sox I believe).

I'm just itching for a game between the Reds and Toronto. That I will definitely go to see as I don't really care who wins or loses. I like both teams.


I won't criticize Lyle Overbay or the Jays. I think part of their problem recently is simply playing in the wrong division. Had they been playing in the Central or the West they probably make the playoffs a few times the last few years.
Blame Toronto's physical location on the map for that. If there were more teams in the east, like Montreal (if it was in the AL rather than the NL) or for some wishful thinking Ottawa team, then I'm sure things would be a wee different.

But we have to suffice for what we have. And make up for what we don't.

[vangogh]

You really need to check with the players and what they say about that kind of a loss. You're saying it's humiliating. They don't. They'll tell you it was just one of those days. When you're down really big or up really big you pitch differently. You throw balls right down the middle of the plate. The idea is to get the game over with quicker instead of nibbling at the corners and drawing out every at bat. Sometimes that leads to more runs.

Managers don't necessarily put in the same pitchers either. In the Yankees case last week they tossed in a rookie. I think it was his first time pitching in the major leagues.

If a team loses several games in a row by a large margin then I'm sure they feel embarrassed about it. One game, no.

Most every player will tell you that losing a close game late is more disheartening than losing by a big margin. Baseball is a long season. No one game ever means that much. Believe me the team forgot about it as soon as they started the next day's game.

[Dan Furman]

You really need to check with the players and what they say about that kind of a loss. You're saying it's humiliating. They don't. They'll tell you it was just one of those days. When you're down really big or up really big you pitch differently. You throw balls right down the middle of the plate. The idea is to get the game over with quicker instead of nibbling at the corners and drawing out every at bat. Sometimes that leads to more runs.

Managers don't necessarily put in the same pitchers either. In the Yankees case last week they tossed in a rookie. I think it was his first time pitching in the major leagues.

If a team loses several games in a row by a large margin then I'm sure they feel embarrassed about it. One game, no.

Most every player will tell you that losing a close game late is more disheartening than losing by a big margin. Baseball is a long season. No one game ever means that much. Believe me the team forgot about it as soon as they started the next day's game.

Many guys on the losing side are joking in the dugout during a 15-2 pasting, etc. They know it's one game out of 162.

Playing .600 ball is considered really good. But, for 100 games, that's still 60-40. That's 40 losses out of 100 games. And .600 is first place most years.

Baseball players know losing - and losing regularly - is part of the game. It's unlike most other sports in that respect.

[vangogh]

Dan you can further break it down to going 3-2 over and over again all season. If after 5 games you see a team with a 3-2 record you don't think they're playing so special. But if they continue it all year they'll win 97 games and likely win their division in most years.

Baseball is a grind. You generally need to think of a 3 game series as you would a single game in other sports.

[Blacktalon]

Why was my previous post deleted? That's copping out.

Jays sox'd it to the Sox on the weekend, but the Sox sox'd it to us yesterday.

*shrug* Oh, and a three-game series between Cincinnati and Toronto happens in July at the Rogers Centre! Guess who's going to attend!

[vangogh]

Not sure what happened to your previous post, but nothing has been deleted. Maybe a glitch when you posted.

Wasn't a good weekend for the Yankees. That first game set the tone. At least we get a chance against the sox of the red variety next week and Yankee Stadium.

The Jays are still playing good. I believe they have the best record in baseball at the moment. Cito deserves a lot of credit for getting them to play so well. I think the team is motivated to keep Hallidy in town too. You need to have a good season to convince him he can win in Toronto.

Umm would that be you who'll be attending? I have tickets to see the Rockies play on Mother's Day. My mom will be in town and we'll be celebrating her day in part at Coor's Field. The Marlins will be in town.

[Blacktalon]

Are you far from the Rockies stadium? I'm not sure which city it's in (is it Denver?).

Perhaps the Yankees were handed the curse from Boston. One can only hope I guess. :)

Ol' Halladay is pure gold, no doubt. The good thing is that the team's pitching isn't totally reliant on him but a few other good starters/closers if the Doc has to sit out or miss a game. Having an all-star on the team is fine in some spots, however when the team can rely on one another rather than just one person that's the winning combination.

Which is probably the Jays were able to obliterate both World Series' in '92 and '93 respectively: there wasn't one sole member who carried the team. There were big names, but there weren't too many big egos to get in the way.

[vangogh]

I'm about 20-30 minutes from Coor's Field. It is in Denver. It's a really nice stadium too. One of the nicest I've been in. Great views of the sun setting over the mountains if you sit on the first base side.

No curse. The ghosts are still migrating over from the old Yankee stadium.

The Jays teams in the early 90s were very good. I remember many of the players.

[Blacktalon]

Are you ready for tonight's game? A. J. Burnett vs. Doc Halladay. A-Rod is back. Hopefully A-Rod won't be an A-Hole.

I'm just waiting on the radio to start broadcasting the game at 7 p.m. EST.

How about we make a little wager? If the Jays win, then you have to provide me with one of your services absolutely free. If the Yankees win, I have to do the same for you.

But let's make it interesting: I say a five-point spread in the Jays' victory over that of the Yanks. I'm saying a 10 - 5 victory in favour of the Jays.

What do you say to that?

[vangogh]

I was thinking tonight's game was a battle of teach and student given how much A.J. is crediting Doc with turning him around last year.

I'm going to order the MLB package on direct tv soon so I can get every game. Maybe I should order in the next half hour or so and watch the game.

A friendly wager is fine, but I'll pass on the free services thing. Not much of a bet for me since I'm a company of one and don't really have an HR needs.

[Blacktalon]

Not just HR, but business strategy services ;)

At last check, Jays were winning 3 - 0 in the 6th. I'm not sure what it is now. Although it's nice to see them have the second-best showing in the entire MLB right now, only behind the Dodgers.

I'm quite pleased with how Cincinnati is fairing so far. They're second in their respective division.

[vangogh]

It's 3-1 Jays, bottom of the 8th. One thing about the Jays lead is they haven't played the AL East yet. Tonight is the first game against the Yankees and they still haven't played Tampa and Boston. Meanwhile they've all been beating up on each other.

[vangogh]

Look like your Jays took the game tonight 5-1. Another reason I didn't want to bet for real is I knew Halliday had a long winning streak against the Yankees. I can't remember the last time they beat him.

He now has the 2nd highest winning % all time against the Yankees for a pitcher with at least 20 decisions. Who has the highest winning % you ask? Would you believe Babe Ruth? If Doc wins the next game he pitches against the Yankees he'll tie the Babe.

[Blacktalon]

Yeah yeah yeah...that's right. Dwell in the glory that is the Jays. It's ok, no need to be shy.

According to The Fan 590, Toronto's (probably Canada's) big sports-based AM radio station, says that Halladay is arguably second best pitcher in the league right now, behind the pitcher in Kansas City, according to one of the announcers.

You should see the front page of the Sports section in the Toronto Star of a dejected A. J. Burnett while an inset of the Doc is all fricken smiles.

They've been having amazing turnout too; last night's 43,000 and change seems to prove that the T.O's Jays fans are starting to feel the love. We've been so jaded by our Leafs and Raptors that this is the first meagre opportunity at some form of sports glory in a long time.

The comparison to Babe Ruth took my by surprise, although that's a fantastic comparative other.

We'll see what the deal is tonight. I'm sure if the turnout is as high as it was last night, I'm sure the psionic energy will prop the Jays up and above the Yanks once more.

Oh, is it a little bright in here? It must be because I'm smiling like a bloody mofo!

[vangogh]

It is just one game you know and one game does not a season make.

Halliday has been the best pitcher in the league for years. He doesn't get the credit for it, but there's no one I'd rather have pitching for me.

Looks like we have Andy Petitte vs Scott Richmond tonight.

[Blacktalon]

Ol' A.J. Burnett got buuuurrrrnnnnedddd. Six-game suspension for lobbing one too close to some guy's head.

Ouch XD

[vangogh]

It'll probably be reduced to 5 games, meaning he won't miss a start. 6 games seemed a little harsh for missing a guy when the Rangers pitcher hit Teixiera twice and has apparently made a habit of hitting him and everyone else over the years. Then again the Rangers put him on waivers after the game, which is worse than a suspension.

[Dan Furman]

I see things have righted themselves... gotta love the marathon baseball season.

The Yankees are looking *very* strong.

[vangogh]

Yep. I find it humorous every year how some teams are pronounced dead after 3 weeks and some people are ready to hand the World Series to a team that starts strong out of the gate. Every year I tell people you need to wait till the end of May to know how good teams are.

For example this year the Marlins got off to the best start. I think they were 9-1. But that record was built by playing the Nationals 6 times in the first few weeks. Looking at the Blue Jays they didn't play inside the division for the first month and a half of the season, while the other teams in the AL East were beating up on each other a little. As soon as the Jays started playing the rest of the AL East they dropped quickly in the standings.

Every team is going to go through a few weeks where it seems like they can't buy a win. Many teams will go through a few weeks where they look like the best team to ever play the game. Baseball is a marathon. It's a long season and we still have no idea who's going to come out on top in the end.

If I had to guess I think the AL East is going to come down again to the Yankees and the Red Sox with the team that doesn't win the division taking the wild card. Both look stronger than the rest of the teams in the AL. In the division Baltimore is still a few years away, the Rays are likely to have a fall off after last year, and the Jays still are a few pieces shy of contending over the long haul.

[Dan Furman]

So where are we now.... oh yea, the Yankees are playing for the ALCS!!!

Looking very strong indeed. Hoping for a great series!!

[vangogh]

And how did the Blue Jays do?

The season is never decided in April. If it was the Yankees, Angels, Rockies, Twins, and Cardinals would not have made the playoffs. Yet all 5 of those teams did make it to the post season.

Two good series ahead. I think the teams in both are evenly matched. We shouldn't see the sweeps we saw in the divisional round.

[Blacktalon]

Bah. You want more salt there vangogh? I think there's still room in my wound for more.

:( All of Toronto's teams are sucking BAD. Good thing I'm an Ottawa Senators fan :D

Blacktalon

[vangogh]

Funny Sean. I was trying to draw you out with my comments about the Jays. Guess it worked. Looks like there's going to be some shakeup with the Jays. I saw J.P Ricardi is no more and did Cito get the boot too?

At least you still have Haliday though my guess is he gets traded either in the off season or before the trade deadline next season.

The hardest thing for the Jays is the division they play in. Most years the Yankees and Red Sox are going to put together teams good enough to make or at least compete for the playoffs. It can be done though. Look at the Rays last year.

I guess Toronto hasn't had a lot of success lately in general for sports. The Raptors are nothing to talk about and it's been awhile since the Leafs did much. Good thing you like Ottawa.

[Blacktalon]

I'm happy that JP is gone. His work has done nothing for the Jays since their last GM departed. It's unfortunate that Cito is getting treated this way considering he's the one who lead the Jays to their back-to-back World Series in '92 & '93, respectively.

Red Sox and Yankees have the budget to afford those big players. A-Rod is a good example of an overpaid athlete but does deliver the results. T.Dot needs more along those lines.

If Halladay gets traded, ehhh, I guess it's for the better. But I don't foresee anything good to come out of the Jays in the next while.

And the club owners wonder why attendance was down this season...

GO SENS GO! :D

I had to get that out there.

[vangogh]

It's not just the money though. The Twins have one of the smallest budgets in the game and seem to be there most every year. The Cardinals too. You still have to spend the money wisely. Of course I wouldn't complain having all that money. You can buy enough of a team to stay competitive, but the money doesn't guarantee success. Also one of the reasons the Yankees and Red Sox have the money is because they reinvest it in the team.

Toronto has a similar population to draw a fan base as Boston. When the Blue Jays were winning in the mid 80s I remember them drawing a lot of people in the seats. Didn't they hit 4,000,000 one year? Did they reinvest the money they made back into the team?

The Red Sox have been very smart about how they make their money as well as how they spend it. Most teams broadcasts are on one version or another of their New England Sports Network (NESN) When I'm watching Rockies games here in Colorado the Red Sox are making money.

The Yankees build their own television network as well and both teams are good at selling merchandise in part because they win a lot. If you invest in the team and the team consistently wins you fill the seats, sell stuff at the concession stands, selling merchandise across the country and even around the world.

One reason both teams recruit foreign born players is because it opens up new markets for them, which brings in more money, which is then reinvested in the team.

It's not too long ago that the Red Sox didn't win much. Then they had a change in ownership that made a commitment to the team that the previous ownership didn't. They got smarter, figured out how to make more money for the organization, and invested that money back into the organization wisely.

[Blacktalon]

That's the thing: The people came to TO because the team was performing well. There weas reason to go to a game. If I remember correctly, the end of this season for the Jays barely pulled 10,000 attendants. I don't have the exact # in front of me but that's pretty pathetic.

One thing to remember, too, is that Boston had a really long drought to winning the world series up until they won a few years back. So technically they didn't have good investing couture if it took them that long to pull it off.

Just like the Leafs. They constantly say that the team is rebuilding, but they've been rebuilding for over 40 years now. How much longer can they rebuild before it just becomes obscure?

The thing about the money bit is bang on; you can have all the most expensive players in the world, but if they cannot perform as a team, then what good are they? Are they then worth what you paid for them? In that sense, from an ROI perspective, no.

Our team management doesn't seem to want to reinvest it in the team. They just want to keep making more money to pay off the executive salaries at the top. Mind you, they could essentially be reinvesting in the team, but making really bad strategic decisions when it comes to line-up, dealing with poor performers, and reinforcing team spirit.

What would have been nice, from a hockey standpoint, is if Jim Basillie was allowed to get the Coyotes and bring them to Hamilton. That would have really made the Leafs pull up their socks and add some competition to the market. Yes, we have Buffalo within a stone's throw, but that requires crossing the border.

Now that Québec City might get a team (again), that there will put more pressure on Montréal to perform. Why can't Hamilton get a team? Seems kind of unfair considering in New York alone there're the Islanders, Rangers and the Devils all within close proximity to one another.

Going back to the Jays, my only hope is that the new GM that comes in actually has it within themselves to foster a better team. Because if things keep going for the Jays the way things are going for the Leafs, we're done.

[vangogh]

The people came to TO because the team was performing well. There weas reason to go to a game.

That's my point. Take any team and put a consistent winner on the field and the people will come to the games. If you want to build a team that consistently competes you have to invest in your team. Your team doesn't need to win the World Series every year. All it needs to do is compete year in and year out. If you can do that your seats will be filled and you'll have a positive return on your investment in the team.

What happens with too many teams is their owners don't reinvest. They cut budgets and put poor teams on the field. I understand a team like the Pirates can't spend the same amount of money as the Yankees do now, but they can spend more money and keep more of their players.

Look at Oakland. They had a down year this year and last year too I think, but for years they've consistently put a good team on the field despite a small budget. Take Seattle. 15 years ago they were considered a small market team. Then they built a winning team, which led to a brand new stadium, and then they were considered a big market team.

The Jays have a major disadvantage in the division they play in. We know year in and year out the Yankees and Red Sox are going to invest in their teams and be there all season long. But they do have to put something back into the team to win.

I realize they're going to let Roy Haliday go in all likelihood, but how much will they lose in attendance if they do. Wouldn't you think they'd easily make back his salary in ticket sales.

Hopefully for the Jays sake the new GM will do a better job. The hard part is it starts with ownership. If ownership won't invest money in the team there's only so much a GM can do.


hy can't Hamilton get a team? Seems kind of unfair considering in New York alone there're the Islanders, Rangers and the Devils all within close proximity to one another.

New York has enough of a fan base to support 3 teams in the same area. The Devils are really New Jersey though. It is a different state. Most New Yorkers will either be Rangers or Islander fans, though there are definitely Devils fans in the mix.