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vangogh
08-11-2008, 01:12 PM
The general advice when writing page titles has been to keep them short and sweet, use your primary keyword phrase in them, preferably toward the front.

There's a thread at Webmaster World (http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/3718916.htm) that seems to be suggesting that longer titles are working better recently.

Is anyone noticing longer page titles ranking better than shorter page titles. I haven't done any exhaustive research myself, but I have observed at times a long page title ranking #1 when I would have expected results lower on the page to rank better.

Obviously there's more to ranking than just a page title. So many other factors come into play, but are you noticing anything about the length of page titles in results?

billbenson
08-11-2008, 02:11 PM
I would think that as long as it contains the page's key phrase and isn't the same as the h1 you are ok. I don't think you should stick more stuff than you need in there though. Domain names and other stuff not relevant to the page don't belong there.

As I'm writing this I notice that you have the domain name for the forum in the title. Do you think that should be there vg? My opinion would be that the title of this thread is only "longer page titles better?" Other stuff is ok, but if it doesn't bring anything to the party??

vangogh
08-11-2008, 02:29 PM
I just happened across that thread while reading so thought I'd mention it here and see if anyone had observed anything similar.

As far as the forum name in the title it's mostly there because I haven't gotten around to working on the template. It's in there by default, but I think it's good to have your business or domain name in page titles since it helps with branding.

After awhile most content starts to rank for something. People may or may not click on the results, but the more often they keep seeing your name in the results the more likely they'll be to click on future links in results.

I do think it's important to include your business name or domain in your page titles. If you don't have a strong brand I'd include them at the end. If you do have a strong brand placing your name up front might be the better option.

billbenson
08-11-2008, 03:59 PM
I was going to put this in the other seo post, but I also think it is very effective to put keywords in the url. I don't think it hurts if its reduntant to a title or heading tag. For example, it makes sense to have a page sportingEquipment.com/hiking.html for a hiking page with hiking as a keyword. I've had very good success with this in adwords.

vangogh
08-11-2008, 04:11 PM
I think it's a good idea too. I don't think it's a main factor by any means, but I do think it's a factor. I can't think of a good reason not to use keywords in URLs and regardless of the ranking value they should help to get more clicks.

Another advantage is people will sometimes use your URL as the anchor text of a link so you could pick up links with your keywords in them

theGypsy
08-11-2008, 05:30 PM
I don't buy the theory of better really.... more than merely having more words and a higher chance of grabbing a long tail etc... by simply looking at some older terms clients rank for with shorter titles, there has been no slippage in the rankings... that's not definitive, but if this was some sort of major ranking signal change, surely we'd have noticed?

Further to that, there is little I've read in the patent world that would really lean one way or the other... in essence, it is likely that a longer title on page does little more than dilute the ranking signals compared to a lessor character one.... where it might make a difference is in;

Peeps linking - since they'd have more words targeted in the link text if they used it. This obviously creates new potential long tail ranking signals as well as the core terms.

SERP CT - better, longer titles could encourage a higher click though which could also increase rankings, depending on the search engine and usage of things such as personalized search.

...etc....

...so there are things that might make a longer title appear 'better' - that doesn't mean that the number of characters themselves are strong ranking factors... which is short sighter IMO

As for URLs...... I prefer a /subject/category/page-name.html whenever possible such as;

myindustrial.com/part-types/widgets/blue-widgets.html

There is much one can do with page naming conventions and titles and some planning ahead of time with the site (structurally) always pays benefits in the end.

.... my 2c at least....

vangogh
08-11-2008, 07:00 PM
Everything you say makes sense and is how I interpret things. Every so often I come across the old keyword spam title at the top of the SERPs though it just convinces me Google isn't quite as good at delivering results as they want me to believe.

I assume it's the other factors involved as for why the people in the Webmasterworld thread are seeing what they're seeing. I'm still going to stick with the short and sweet page title approach.

I do the same as you structurally. I think that's more how keywords in URLs come into play. I don't know that the actual file name plays a huge part, but rather the overall structure adds relevance to the section and helps the search engines understand the keyword theme of a given section of your site.

Also if you set up your navigation well all your pages should be linking back up towards the top of the section helping to reinforce the main keyword theme along the way.