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rezzy
04-02-2009, 06:14 PM
When I was thinking about the post, I couldnt really figure out where I wanted to post it.

Looking at my site, what do you think is weak about it. I am trying to analyze what it takes to get some to contact me and how it can be improved.

Would a flashing contact me button help? Is my current homepage to bland and doesnt pull you to contacting me? If a contact recommended me for a site, and you followed through, would you contact or continue looking?

vangogh
04-02-2009, 07:16 PM
Would a flashing contact me button help?

No, no, no, no and no. Did I say no yet? Flashing buttons bad. Flashing buttons tacky. No.

As for not getting people to contact you do you know people are landing on the site? Could it be a traffic problem? Or are you sure people are finding their way to the site and just not contacting you?

Before talking about the site know that as a web designer you won't get tons of people contacting you no matter. We're not in a business where tons of people are calling looking for a custom site. Many people who have contacted me did so without necessarily seeing my site. I've had lots of people find me through this and the old forum. They visited my site to get my contact info, but they were already sold on contacting me before arriving at the site.

Now for the site. I don't think you're giving people enough information to let them decide if they should contact you. People are going to have questions about you and what you can do for them. You're not answering those questions. Where is your About page? What services do you offer? How much do you charge?

Your home page starts with a mention of web design. Why doesn't it link to a page telling me more about web design? Why should I hire you instead of the thousands of other people all willing to design my site. Same thing with the application development on the home page. Where's the detailed page telling me more about your services. Link to that page and let me read more.

I think the biggest problem now is you really aren't telling anyone what you do. You need to provide a lot more information to help people make up their minds about contacting you. Right now someone visiting your site isn't going to learn any more about you then they knew before visiting.

The two pages I think you absolutely need are an About page and a Services page. Even better might be distinct pages for the web design and application development. If you offer other services give those a page as well. You could have a brief Services pages that links to more detailed pages.

Also you want people to contact you, but the only way I see to reach the page is through the menu link at the top. If you want people to contact you add links on all your pages within the content. Your contact page could do away with the Service Requested options and the phone number. Name, email, message is all you need. Everything else makes it less likely people will fill out the form.

By the way I notice the links in your signature aren't working. I think they point to pages you were using before you redesigned the site.

rezzy
04-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Thanks Steven. I can always expect you come and set everything straight. To be honest, I would never think of using a flashing button. I always thought them to show the sign of weak marketing.

Dan Furman
04-02-2009, 07:45 PM
I have mentioned this before, but your biggest problem is you really have a blog, not a "regular" website. I'd go there and leave right away, even if I needed web design.

Your website's landing page - usually the index page - should generally be a static page that tells people where they landed, what you do, etc etc. It should be very clear in navigation, etc. I don't understand why you are not doing that - why not use a "normal" static homepage, then an about, services, FAQ, blog, contact?

Not saying you can't use a blog template - my "books and blog" site below is a blog template that VG customized. I like it very much, and it's a very logical flow, and simple to use. To me, you are just making it very hard to figure out what's going on with your site.

Site flow / page order is very important. If you have your latest blog post as your homepage, the site simply isn't going to convert well.

If you "must" have the blog, see VG's site in his sig - that's the way to do it then.

Good luck, Rezzy

vangogh
04-02-2009, 10:27 PM
Dan a lot of web designers now use the blog as their home page and then add the sales pages to it. I'm with you that I think the home page should be a home page and then have the blog as a section of the site.

Bryan's site is actually set up that way. His home page is a home page. I'm thinking you see blog because of all the sidebar info has the standard blog look. On my site I still have a sidebar that's all about the blog on every page of the site. I change the inner sidebar so it shows a submenu system for each section. The categories only appear on the blog itself.

Bryan I think this is another reason why you need more content. That page does look bloglike even if it's not a blog post.

rezzy
04-02-2009, 10:45 PM
What type of content should I add to that page? I am having a hard time find my "voice" and articulating what I really want to say.

Dan Furman
04-02-2009, 11:24 PM
Dan a lot of web designers now use the blog as their home page and then add the sales pages to it. I'm with you that I think the home page should be a home page and then have the blog as a section of the site.

Bryan's site is actually set up that way. His home page is a home page. I'm thinking you see blog because of all the sidebar info has the standard blog look. On my site I still have a sidebar that's all about the blog on every page of the site. I change the inner sidebar so it shows a submenu system for each section. The categories only appear on the blog itself.

Bryan I think this is another reason why you need more content. That page does look bloglike even if it's not a blog post.

I see it now (his link is now kind of going to a not found page, which then links to the home page, which isn't really the home page [it has a blog post saying I'm too slow to read the site or something], but then I click on home up top and I see the home page.... really, that did make sense :) )

I know you're saying lots of web designers use the blog look, but that's gotta be hurting them (unless they do what you did - make it a more conventional site with conventional navigation). If I go to a web designer's site, I gotta say "oooh... nice"... or, at the very least, I CAN'T say "err... huh?" And I can't see an ordinary-looking blog. Bryan's current blog style is just too plain.

Also, I agree - it needs more content for sure.

Bryan, the easiest way to start the content is to figure out the pages first. I personally like something akin to:

Home | About Us | Services | FAQ | Contact

When you do things this way, you eliminate the need to tell "everything" on the front page (a trap many fall into) - it gives you a solid foundation to present the content in a clean, logical fashion.

Then, start backwards - do the services page first. Do the "about" second (and with the about, lead it off with more "why use us" copy than anything else... you can tell the company history further down). The reason you do those first is they are the easiest to do (the contact page I'm not counting because that's generally a five minute job.) The home page is the hardest.

Then do your home page (save your FAQ for last, because it's really fun.) For the homepage, you have to put yourself in your visitors shoes... why are they here? How did they get here? You have to address the reason they are there. But remember, the point isn't to preach to the choir - if people clicked on a web design adword to get to your site, you don't need to sell them on web design - you need to sell them on why YOU are the best web designer for them. The goal is to get a contact, or at least lead them to another page.

Ok, enough for now - I've given you enough to chew on, and my fingers are getting tired and I have to wrap my wife's b-day gifts.

rezzy
04-02-2009, 11:30 PM
I have to wrap my wife's b-day gifts.

Well, Happy B day to here. Thanks Dan. I installed a great little plugin that monitors when people end up on the 404. So, they can redirected to the proper homepage. And not a random blog post.:)

vangogh
04-02-2009, 11:38 PM
For the home page? I usually think of the main points of the home page to be directing people deeper into the site and to let people know quickly what the site and your business is about.

You've started ok. You have the three different things you want to tell people about. Your web design services, your application development services, and your blog. You have a blog and link to it. The next step is to create more detailed pages for the web design and the application development and link to them from within the content on the home page.

Also think about what you can offer a client that others can't. What differentiates you from others. There's something you can do that I can't for example. It may not come to you right away, but keep looking for that thing that you can offer that most others can't.

In my case I add two things on top of basic web design. I can offer SEO and I can offer WordPress. Both help differentiate me from the majority of web designers. I didn't start out offering either though. I learned SEO to help market myself better and I learned WordPress, because it powered my blog. Now both help me sell my web design services.

Think what you can get involved in that would then help you stand apart.

For the moment though, you do need to provide more information. You're basically asking people to hire you without knowing anything about you. Write an About page. Share some of your experience or just yourself. Look at my about page. Most of it is completely irrelevant to web design, but it does let you know me a little more. Look at Dan. He took getting fired again and again and uses it as a selling point. It humanizes him. He's been fired. So have most people at one time or another. We've all left jobs at the least. Now we have something in common with Dan and we'd be that much more likely to hire him because of that commonality.

With your services give people some detail of what you do. How about a portfolio? If you don't have sites to add create some. The act of creating them will only make you a better designer and you'll have something to show. Even two designs would be enough. How about an application you can point people to? Again if you don't have one create one.

Do you have testimonials from people you've worked with Don't make these up. Only use them if you have them and remember to ask people for them. What do you charge?

Write a list of possible pages you can create and then go through them one at a time and list a few points you'd like to make for each page. Then write sentences around those pages. Find a few sites you like and take notes to see what they do.

vangogh
04-02-2009, 11:41 PM
Looks like we were posting at the same time. Dan wish your wife a happy b'day. Mine's coming up next week.

Bryan fix the links in your signature here. They point to old pages that are no longer there.

rezzy
04-02-2009, 11:45 PM
Bryan fix the links in your signature here. They point to old pages that are no longer there.

I was working on that as you spoke. I couldnt leave broken links on the great Small Business Forum.

vangogh
04-02-2009, 11:55 PM
Hey yeah. Now I know we aren't getting thousands of visits from search engines. It was your broken links :)

They seem to be working now.

One thing I'll expand on from my previous post. Spend a night searching for sites similar to your business. Bookmark a half dozen or so that you really like for their content or design or whatever. Then spend a week of nights studying them. Really look to see why you liked the content or the design. As you're going through the sites look at the pages they all include. You should probably include those pages too. Also look for pages they might not have, but should. Those are also pages you want to add to your site.

Make a list of pages to include on your site
Write the name of each on an index card
Organize them into sections
Make notes on each card for what to include on the page
Write each page

If you're not happy sit on the content for a few days or weeks and then go through the process above again. Add new ideas to the cards. Cross a few out. Rewrite what you've written.

The content you see on my site didn't happen over night. It was quite a few months from the time I decided which pages to include to the content you see now.

rezzy
04-03-2009, 10:48 AM
The content you see on my site didn't happen over night. It was quite a few months from the time I decided which pages to include to the content you see now.

I never thought getting pages right took so much concentration and time.I will surely spend some time thinking of the content I want and the pages to have.

Is a portfolio page important?

Dan Furman
04-03-2009, 12:23 PM
I never thought getting pages right took so much concentration and time.I will surely spend some time thinking of the content I want and the pages to have.

Is a portfolio page important?

For you? Yes.

I have a samples page - I want people to go to sites that I wrote copy for. So yea, you want to show off your work.

vangogh
04-03-2009, 12:42 PM
Yep, the portfolio page is going to be important for you. It's standard fare on any designer site. People want to see examples of your work.

With the page copy don't think you need to get something perfect right away. Build the pages over time if you have to. I also agree about writing the more specific pages first and then working backwards toward the home page.

nighthawk
04-03-2009, 03:02 PM
Unfortunately your main problem is that your website is far too simplistic. As a web designer, your own website really needs to show off your skills. There are thousands and thousands of other designers out there, so you need to stand out from the crowd and grab peoples attentions quickly - a nicely designed website will do that.

Theres nothing about your website that demonstrates your talents, its too run of the mill, and if I was hiring I would be gone in an instant i'm afraid.

Harold Mansfield
04-03-2009, 09:03 PM
I've got to agree with Nighthawk. As much as I love blogging and Word Press, when I go to a web designers website, the last thing I want to see is a blog, unless....Blogging platforms are your specialty and you have the baddest, custom designed theme that I have ever seen.

In your field, you cannot sell people with words. You are in a visual arts field and you have to apply that to your sales page or website.
Nobody wants to read how good you are, they want to see it, plain and simple.

You've got to blow people out of the water when they land on your page so the first thing out of their mouth is, "O.k. This is where I need to be looking...let me see what this guy has!"., or even a "Wow!" would be good also.

Right now, you look like you are blogging about web design, and not actually doing it. Save the commentary for your blog, and put some of the skill to work on your website.

If you are going to use a blogging platform for your main site, it should have a portfolio gallery of page, and you need to take everything out of it that say's "blog"....date, post count, categories, the Word Press link at the bottom, etc.

Yours is probably the first web design site that I have seen without any design in it :)

If you don't take care of yourself, why would people trust you to create a voice for their own business?
Right now you are telling people, "This is my best work and this is what I will do for you."

I know what you are doing...you are making it personal. If people read what you have to say then they will like you as a person and your style of business and hire you.
That is more wrong than a soup sandwich. (I usually say that a little differently...use your imagination)

The world is visual. Better looking things and shiny objects get all the attention and make people want to be a part of them. It's not personal, it's business...and it's business that thousands of others in your field want, and if you don't get on your game they are going to walk all over you and make your money.

People aren't dealing with you initially, they are looking at an entity. A Company. They don't want to see a person, just yet..the customer service comes in when you get them on the phone.

The old saying "Dress to Impress" applies here. Dress your website to Impress.

rezzy
04-03-2009, 10:51 PM
Yours is probably the first web design site that I have seen without any design in it :)


Can you explain this? I agree it needs some fine-tuning, but everything has some sort of "design" to it. Even minimalist designs has design.

You may not agree with the design, or the form factor but it has a design.

Dan Furman
04-03-2009, 11:16 PM
It depends on who your market is, Rezzy. If your market is minimalist, then by all means, do minimalist. I think that's a fairly untapped market, myself. I'm not a fan of "whiz-bang". I want a fairly simple, functional site that's easy to navigate and understand. So minimalist is ok.

But, in all honesty, your own site should be similar to what you will be designing for people. And while yours does have some design, is your site generally the style you are selling?

vangogh
04-03-2009, 11:23 PM
I'd say there's a design too even if it not everyone here likes it. There is still a design.

Bryan maybe some of the reason for that thought can be fixed with few things. For example most of what's in the sidebar seems to be default styling. Why not remove the indent from the lists, play around with the font in the headings in the sidebar. How about adding some kind of texture to the background color on the body. I think even just a few details like that would spruce the design up some.

Maybe removing the categories on the pages outside of the blog and replacing it with something else would also take away the appearance of those pages being a blog.

rezzy
04-03-2009, 11:38 PM
It funny you mention that Steven. Just as you said that I was looking at ways to work with the side bar. Adding spacing and some other elements to spruce the look at little.

Maybe Ill use a flashing click here button for good measure. :)

vangogh
04-04-2009, 12:18 AM
You should model your site after this one (http://www.fabricland.co.uk/). It even has flashing things.

Harold Mansfield
04-04-2009, 01:58 AM
Can you explain this? I agree it needs some fine-tuning, but everything has some sort of "design" to it. Even minimalist designs has design.

You may not agree with the design, or the form factor but it has a design.


It depends on who your market is, Rezzy. If your market is minimalist, then by all means, do minimalist. I think that's a fairly untapped market, myself. I'm not a fan of "whiz-bang". I want a fairly simple, functional site that's easy to navigate and understand. So minimalist is ok.

But, in all honesty, your own site should be similar to what you will be designing for people. And while yours does have some design, is your site generally the style you are selling?

This is a little more closer to what I was trying to say, sorry if it came out a little rough, my fingers are starting to move faster than my brain in an effort to catch up with my mouth.

What ever your style is, if you are looking for clients to design for, I think you should show some versatility.
The minimalist design only works if show that it's not your only way of designing, and that there are other options.

It's like the little black dress (follow me here)
Every woman I have ever dated has at least one little black dress. They rarely wear just the dress, it's the accessories that make it look different every time...shoes, purse, different neck jewelry, bracelets, etc. The dress itself is minimal, it's the overall design of the entire outfit that makes it. In most cases, the dress by itself will not work, and most people won't notice the dress ...but the lack of accessories.

When I look at your site, i don't notice what you have done, I notice more what you have not done.

I don't have to like the design of your website, but I am a potential customer because I can't design my own. If you don't show me what you can do on your own website, why would I call you to ask what you can do for mine?..websites are what you do...I would have to assume that yours is an example of your best work.

My personal style should not overshadow what I need to do for business. Of course you put yourself in everything you do, but as a service provider you have to put your best foot forward, not assume that your potential costumers will "get it".

If you make them guess, they will guess wrong every time and call someone else.

So sure, some people like it simple, and don't like a lot of "wiz bang" but a lot of people do and actually need it....after all they are trying to attract customers too, that is one of the reasons that they come to you to build them a website.

Would you expect someone who needs a site built for a new movie or a record company to use a minimalist design ?

Every business is not the same. If you are only going to design for minimalist needs, then do that. But if you are a versatile web designer that can handle any job, then you had better show me on your own site, or at least give me a portfolio to look at.

rezzy
04-04-2009, 09:43 AM
@eborg- I really understood where you are coming from. The little back dress image helped it along. As I mentioned in a previous post, I have started adding some accessories.

And some other things are in the works.

Steven, I am all over the design. I think a revamping is in order. Next I need an animated opening and closing mailbox for my email link.

greenoak
04-04-2009, 09:50 AM
thanks for a great 101 discussion of a home page/landing page.......ann

Harold Mansfield
04-04-2009, 02:08 PM
You should model your site after this one (http://www.fabricland.co.uk/). It even has flashing things.

WTF?:eek: I know you are kidding right ?

Harold Mansfield
04-04-2009, 02:18 PM
Next I need an animated opening and closing mailbox for my email link.

Umm...no you don't. I have to go with the "less is more" on this one. I am a fan of putting all of your contact information together, name, address, phone, email set like you would on a business card.

First Last
Title
Company
address
Phone
Email

And placing it above the fold, maybe the first widget in your sidebar, so it is seen right away (or in the footer), as well as the contact page

This isn't my site, it 's yours, but the old animated email thing is a little 1997. I would go for classy business, rather than shouting "look here!"

That is certainly my taste, doesn't mean it's right. You have to do what you think will be effective and give off a look of professionalism.

vangogh
04-04-2009, 06:39 PM
eborg I was kidding. Sorry I thought it was obvious. That site was the #1 on the 2008 list of web pages that suck.


The minimalist design only works if show that it's not your only way of designing, and that there are other options.

This is why it's important to have a portfolio. No matter what style you choose for your site it's only going to have one style. Your portfolio can show that you can create designs in other styles as well or at least show people the range of your design style.


When I look at your site, i don't notice what you have done, I notice more what you have not done.

Bryan this is why you need more content in general. Right now your site is characterized by what's not there. You really aren't offering enough to people for them to choose you. Add some of the pages we've mentioned, especially a portfolio. Don't worry if there's not a lot for your portfolio. Get something in there or start creating things that can go there.

greenoak
04-04-2009, 07:47 PM
does it suck because it doesnt produce sales?
they are english....lol
they have been online 9 yrs...and seem to have several businesses going....
i liked the people pictures and all the color and quite a bit of it actually.... and they are willing to show their phone nnumber...and you probably wouldnt forget them f you were interested in that market... .......... ann

vangogh
04-04-2009, 08:17 PM
Umm...seriously? I'm sorry, but nothing about the design of that site works. They do everything wrong. If they manage to stay in business it's in spite of the site and not because of it.

I apologize, though. It wasn't the top site from webpagesthatsuck. It was #2. I forgot that I changed my mind which site to link to at the last second. Here's #1 (http://www.havenworks.com/)

Harold Mansfield
04-04-2009, 10:02 PM
Here's #1 (http://www.havenworks.com/)

Wow, that hurt. I mean that really actually hurt my eyes:eek:
And after scrolling forever to get to a page break or the bottom, I noticed the final nail in the coffin...the left to right scroll bar on the bottom...and I have a wide screen monitor!

Can't be mad at them for having a PR 5. Have to wonder if it's because the design is so bad, and people are linking to it as an example ?

The amount of links above the fold are staggering.

vangogh
04-05-2009, 03:07 AM
I think that site has been online awhile and it has at least a few links from webpagesthatsuck which alone would give it a decent PR. I do think a lot of other sites link to it as well as an example of a very poor site. Maybe the site only exists to show how bad a site can be in the first place.

Harold Mansfield
04-05-2009, 01:35 PM
If I ever had to design a site from scratch, by myself, it would probably look like that :).