PDA

View Full Version : Does anyone create cheap websites?



RichardtheFrog
10-24-2014, 11:23 AM
I have a website. It looks decent. I used template .html and .css files.

Is there anyone who will improve it for CHEAP (meaning about $50 or so).

I do not need a $1000 service.

It shouldn't take more than an hour or two.

Harold Mansfield
10-24-2014, 11:44 AM
I have a website. It looks decent. I used template .html and .css files.

Is there anyone who will improve it for CHEAP (meaning about $50 or so).

I do not need a $1000 service.

It shouldn't take more than an hour or two.

I would normally delete this because we don't allow solicitations here, but I feel some perspective is needed.

First of all, no. There are quite a few designers web support people on this forum and from what I know about them no one works that cheap.

Second, you can't determine how long it will take someone to do what you need, because you have no idea how to do it (whatever it is), therefore you don't know what it takes.
The best way to get something done is to contact someone (or multiple people), tell them what you need done, and they'll tell you how long it takes and how much that time costs.

Given the budget that you are saying you want to spend, your best and probably only bet would be to scour the freelance boards and take your chances with whoever you find that will work that cheaply. I'm sure there are many that will take you up on it.

The main point here as it pertains to this forum is that we don't allow these types of posts or requests. It is a discussion forum.
You are free to contact a forum member privately if you would like to do business with them, but no job or solicitation posts.

shrinkme
10-24-2014, 12:26 PM
Harold (above) has done some good work. I checked out his website. But it costs money to have somebody build a website because you are talking about their time. They don't just slap stuff together.

Wozcreative
10-24-2014, 12:54 PM
Hmmm it would take about half an hour at the least of a phone call to even decipher what you'd want. I can write up a website that says "hello world" for the rest of the half hour and that'll be your website (No fancy fonts or colours though).

Some of the questions asked by the OP... sorry maybe I am overly rude but they seem as A) the person is super young and inexperienced or B) live under a rock all their life or C) live off their parents money and doesn't know what things cost in the real world.

Harold Mansfield
10-24-2014, 01:14 PM
... But it costs money to have somebody build a website because you are talking about their time. They don't just slap stuff together.
Exactly. It's not just time, it's knowledge.

I think it would be kind of insulting of me, who knows NOTHING about plumbing and cannot do the work myself, to call a licensed, professional plumber and tell him "Yeah, it should only take you a few minutes". How the hell do I know? If I was knowledgeable enough to make that determination then I'd be able to do it myself.

What that statement really says is, "I'm only looking to pay you for a few minutes of your time because this looks simple to me". I send people like that to find someone else.

I (nor most people) won't spend 30 minutes on the phone with you to determine the problem, wait for all of your log in information which will take you an hour to get to me if it's even correct in the first place, log into your site and or server, back up your files, wade through all of the other things that are wrong with it, fix the problem...test..and then do the back and forth email with you over the next hour...and only charge you for a few minutes. That's ridiculous.

Very few "1 hour" jobs only take an hour because you usually spend more time than that waiting on the client to respond to emails, gather information, and the almost always obligatory "Oh, yeah. Can you help me with one more thing?".

RichardtheFrog
10-24-2014, 09:28 PM
I'm saying that the site I made just by using a sample .html and .css is "good enough" and it isn't worth $1000 for me to improve it, but I might be willing to pay $50.

It took me no more than 2 hours to edit the sample to be "good enough."

And you all can insult me, and if I insulted back, I would get kicked off the forum....

Wozcreative
10-24-2014, 10:52 PM
I'm saying that the site I made just by using a sample .html and .css is "good enough" and it isn't worth $1000 for me to improve it, but I might be willing to pay $50.

It took me no more than 2 hours to edit the sample to be "good enough."

And you all can insult me, and if I insulted back, I would get kicked off the forum....

So you're looking for someone to edit a template for you? Hire a local student, professionals don't have time for 1 hour jobs. Especially when it's someone who's telling us it will take 1 hour to do it.

You also can't take a pile of poop and turn it into a diamond. No such thing as "improve" a template other than really scrapping it and starting over. That's where $1000 minimum kicks in.

Fulcrum
10-24-2014, 11:06 PM
Is there anyone who will improve it for CHEAP (meaning about $50 or so).

I do not need a $1000 service.

It shouldn't take more than an hour or two.

These words raise red flags for me and I refuse work when a possible customer uses these lines.

I may not be a web designer, but some of the other posts here confirm that manufacturing/service is not the only places where this is heard.

billbenson
10-25-2014, 06:32 AM
I have a website. It looks decent. I used template .html and .css files.

Is there anyone who will improve it for CHEAP (meaning about $50 or so).

I do not need a $1000 service.

It shouldn't take more than an hour or two.

At this point everybody is guessing at what you have and need. What does the site do? Is it a template site? Does it make revenue? If so, how? What is your experience level?

BVN101
10-25-2014, 07:34 AM
Hey man, you might want to look at fiverr.com

Lots of cool stuff :)

Good luck!

Freelancier
10-25-2014, 10:59 AM
This is really about marketing messages vs. customer desire.

Someone who makes their living at something wants to make sure their customers actually value what they're doing (because nothing worse than having a customer who doesn't value what you're doing, because you might as well bang your head against the wall for all the good you can do for them). So you set a minimum entry point to make sure that the customer sees value in what you're doing and has enough skin in the game (the deposit) to want to see the project through to the end and get delivery of the results (and pay the balance due).

So then, meet Mr. Customer who doesn't value what you're doing, thinks anyone can do this stuff, and doesn't want to really pay much for the service.

It's just a mismatch between expectations and offering. If a professional is starving for work they might lower themselves to take on a job like this, but the smarter ones -- and all the successful ones -- will look at it, turn their nose up, give a sniff and say "Peee-yew!"

Harold Mansfield
10-25-2014, 12:23 PM
I'm saying that the site I made just by using a sample .html and .css is "good enough" and it isn't worth $1000 for me to improve it, but I might be willing to pay $50.

It took me no more than 2 hours to edit the sample to be "good enough."

And you all can insult me, and if I insulted back, I would get kicked off the forum....
No one is looking to insult you, just give you some perspective that you can't set the rate that a professional charges on mystery work with no details whether it be for an hour, or a complete redesign.

Where the insult is, is that you're asking around on a forum full of people who do this for a living and saying I don't care how much time it takes someone I'm only paying $50 for the work regardless of what it is. This is where you are going wrong and where every designer on this forum takes offense to your assumption that you can approach professionals like that. You can't do that with any other profession. Why do you think it's acceptable for web designers and programmers?

Remember, you're the one who posted. Not us. We're just responding to your offer with realism.

Our rates aren't dictated by the client. We all have set rates. So in your case you're looking for someone who only charges $50 an hour with the assumption that what you need done will only take an hour or less, or, you're looking for an amateur who can help you and is willing to do so for what you are willing to pay.

This is why I suggested that you hit the freelance boards like Odesk, People Per Hour, elance, and so on to find someone outside of the United States who may do what you need done for a flat rate of $50.

I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but I've given you direction and an answer to your question.

RichardtheFrog
10-25-2014, 12:28 PM
Where are these freelance boards? Other than craigslist?

RichardtheFrog
10-25-2014, 12:36 PM
I'm not trying to draw this out into a long argument, but if I can make a "good enough" site out of a template by editing .html and .css files, then why would it be worth $1000 to me? And also, you are saying things that are false. Saying that I would need you to upload it to my servers, etc.

No, I wouldn't. Why would I need you to do that?

Maybe it's worth $1000 to some people, but not to me.

Freelancier
10-25-2014, 12:44 PM
Then that's your choice, and that choice immediately eliminates any professional web designer in any developed country, because those people are not interested in the conditions you've placed on the job. So look at a freelance board populated by overseas web designers who think $50 is a great deal of money for them. Or do the job yourself and save all the money.

Either way, you have a mismatch between those on this board who do that kind of work and the work you're offering, so respect that mismatch and move on to your other choices.

Harold Mansfield
10-25-2014, 01:14 PM
I'm not trying to draw this out into a long argument, but if I can make a "good enough" site out of a template by editing .html and .css files, then why would it be worth $1000 to me? And also, you are saying things that are false. Saying that I would need you to upload it to my servers, etc.

No, I wouldn't. Why would I need you to do that?

Maybe it's worth $1000 to some people, but not to me.
I think you're missing the point and I don't think anyone suggested that you need to spend $1k mainly because you haven't said what needs to be done.
But FYI, how else is anyone supposed to make changes to your files without access to the server? That's how it's done. Access the files, make backups, make the changes, upload the new file.

Look we're all used to hearing people on the other end of the phone say "It should be easy" when they are trying to pay as little as possible, and then finding out that they left out some significant details.

The big picture here is most of the people around here have set rates and will determine the price once they hear what needs to be done. Not the other way around where you give the price and then tell them what you need done. That's just not the way it works.


Then that's your choice, and that choice immediately eliminates any professional web designer in any developed country, because those people are not interested in the conditions you've placed on the job. So look at a freelance board populated by overseas web designers who think $50 is a great deal of money for them. Or do the job yourself and save all the money.

Either way, you have a mismatch between those on this board who do that kind of work and the work you're offering, so respect that mismatch and move on to your other choices.

Pretty much sums it up.

And this is why we don't allow these kinds of threads, but I'm glad that it's a good example of why.

Fulcrum
10-25-2014, 01:45 PM
I've responded to other threads and I'm to the point where I need to call troll on the OP.

He knows everything (including everything that we know he doesn't know).
He can do our work better (and cheaper) than we can.
He appears to be stuck in the realm of the theoretical and has yet to take the required steps to get started.

Wozcreative
10-25-2014, 04:40 PM
Sometimes it takes a lawyer under an hour to produce soemthing for you.. are you the type to also tell the lawyer what they need to charge you and how "easy" it was to produce the paperwork they need?

How about when doctors charge you (here in canada) $40 to fill out a piece of paper in 10 minutes? Do you tell them also how easy that filling out was and that it's only worth $10? What world do you live in????

Brian Altenhofel
10-25-2014, 04:43 PM
I have a website. It looks decent. I used template .html and .css files.

Is there anyone who will improve it for CHEAP (meaning about $50 or so).

I do not need a $1000 service.

It shouldn't take more than an hour or two.

This sets off a ton of red flags - perhaps even enough to trigger my higher rate.


I'm saying that the site I made just by using a sample .html and .css is "good enough" and it isn't worth $1000 for me to improve it, but I might be willing to pay $50.

It took me no more than 2 hours to edit the sample to be "good enough."

And? You know in your mind what you want, but how long will it take to interpret that to the developer.

That "hour or two" would be $400+ for me if I could get you in.



But FYI, how else is anyone supposed to make changes to your files without access to the server? That's how it's done. Access the files, make backups, make the changes, upload the new file.

FWIW, I've never worked with developers that needed server access. I don't even give my hosting customers server access. In a lot of industries, granting server access to developers can cause compliance issues because it's not necessary or standard.

Harold Mansfield
10-25-2014, 05:35 PM
FWIW, I've never worked with developers that needed server access. I don't even give my hosting customers server access. In a lot of industries, granting server access to developers can cause compliance issues because it's not necessary or standard.
????? Yeah, it is.

No one can help you by merely just looking at the website without access to where the website files are.
There is no other way. You need access to the files to be able to change them.

I think you're over thinking it. No one is saying that a web designer needs control of the server or it's settings. Most people have shared hosting anyway and access is limited to FTP. This is what I'm talking about. Not performing administrative actions on the actual hardware.

RichardtheFrog
10-26-2014, 01:54 PM
I host with 000webhost.com. It is free. But anyway, I didn't want to draw this out. And yes, I do think lawyers overcharge as well. That's why I do my own taxes, etc.

But anyway, I don't want to get kicked off this forum for being antagonistic.

Harold Mansfield
10-26-2014, 02:15 PM
I host with 000webhost.com. It is free. But anyway, I didn't want to draw this out. And yes, I do think lawyers overcharge as well. That's why I do my own taxes, etc.

To be honest, I don't find anything wrong with that. If you don't want to pay people, you do it yourself.
I'm just curious about something...you don't seem to value any service. Hosting, Lawyers, Web Designers, Tax professionals... seems like you don't think any of them are worth what they charge for their expertise.

What do you do? How do you make money? And do people balk at your rates the way you do everyone else? Do you also hear people saying that you aren't worth the price that you charge?

Just curious.

RichardtheFrog
10-26-2014, 03:12 PM
It's not that I don't think the service is worth it, it's more that I just would rather do it myself. I am the kind of person that makes his own laundry detergent to save a few bucks.

I want to be a landlord. Currently, I work some crappy little job doing phone calls, but only until I can afford a down payment and get my credit up a little and/or convince someone to cosign. I am trying to decide between "urban" house or mobile home. I am going to get an FHA loan so I only have to put down 3.5%.

My house has two light bulbs. I don't even use the refrigerator. I eat canned and "instant" foods. I cover the windows so I don't have to run the A/c. People used to jokingly call me the Unabomber. Lol.

For example, one time I was incarcerated (not proud of that) and you would see people paying up to $50,000 for defense attorneys that do the same thing as the inmates in the law library. Only difference is that they have a license and are legally allowed to do so.

Harold Mansfield
10-26-2014, 03:24 PM
It's not that I don't think the service is worth it, it's more that I just would rather do it myself. I am the kind of person that makes his own laundry detergent to save a few bucks.
My house has two light bulbs. I don't even use the refrigerator. I eat canned and "instant" foods. I cover the windows so I don't have to run the A/c.

Damn. Now it all makes sense. Even Howard Hughes ran the AC in the summer.




For example, one time I was incarcerated (not proud of that) and you would see people paying up to $50,000 for defense attorneys that do the same thing as the inmates in the law library. Only difference is that they have a license and are legally allowed to do so.

Well, that's not the only difference, but I don't see a reason to debate it with you because your mind seems to be made up that everything is a scam and you can do everything yourself.

RichardtheFrog
10-26-2014, 03:38 PM
A penny saved is a penny earned. Have you ever heard the story of John Rockefeller making a big fuss about how many welds it took to seal an oil barrel?

Harold Mansfield
10-26-2014, 03:43 PM
A penny saved is a penny earned. Have you ever heard the story of John Rockefeller making a big fuss about how many welds it took to seal an oil barrel?
He also lived well, had huge homes, cars, servants, lawyers, accountants, marketing professionals, and traveled the world.
Covering the windows to avoid using the A/C doesn't make you like John Rockefeller.

Read the whole story, not just take one thing you heard and run with it as all you need to know.

A penny saved just for the sake of saving it is dumb. Example: If you build your own website and it sucks, you haven't saved anything. You've actually cost yourself money.

I've had clients like you before. They'll end up spending $2k and lose business, trying to save $500. That's not smart. That's just stubborn and it will shutter your business.

Everyone on this forum will tell you to do it right the fist time, or it will cost you more money in the long run than you would have spent in the first place.

RichardtheFrog
10-26-2014, 03:46 PM
But I can't afford those things right now. He also ran a slightly larger business than I.

Harold Mansfield
10-26-2014, 04:00 PM
But I can't afford those things right now.

Understandable. And the experience will likely be helpful to your future success. But be smart enough to know that you don't know everything, and that saving money that looses you time, or business is not saving money. It's loosing money.

RichardtheFrog
10-26-2014, 04:12 PM
That is true. Which is the exact reason I don't make my own soap. Lol.

Brian Altenhofel
10-26-2014, 11:21 PM
????? Yeah, it is.

No one can help you by merely just looking at the website without access to where the website files are.
There is no other way. You need access to the files to be able to change them.

I think you're over thinking it. No one is saying that a web designer needs control of the server or it's settings. Most people have shared hosting anyway and access is limited to FTP. This is what I'm talking about. Not performing administrative actions on the actual hardware.

Nope. Developers get access to a code repository. It is not the actual hosting environment. No FTP access (which is extremely insecure anyway), no SSH access. File and directory permissions are enforced so the developer who changes file permissions to 0755 for the entire site doesn't open a big hole when their changes are deployed.

Besides, if the site is just HTML, CSS, and some Javascript, then a developer should be able to make those changes in the browser and export them.


It's not that I don't think the service is worth it, it's more that I just would rather do it myself. I am the kind of person that makes his own laundry detergent to save a few bucks.

It took me a while to get over the pride of doing something myself. I finally figured out that it usually costs less in the long run to hire an expert. Then there were the septic tank problems from some of the popular organic laundry detergent recipes...


I want to be a landlord. Currently, I work some crappy little job doing phone calls, but only until I can afford a down payment and get my credit up a little and/or convince someone to cosign. I am trying to decide between "urban" house or mobile home. I am going to get an FHA loan so I only have to put down 3.5%.

Make sure you remember that you have to move in within 60 days and you must live in it for more than a year before renting it out.


For example, one time I was incarcerated (not proud of that) and you would see people paying up to $50,000 for defense attorneys that do the same thing as the inmates in the law library. Only difference is that they have a license and are legally allowed to do so.

I know several people who have had legal troubles. It's always interesting how many $200/hr lawyers will tell them to take the plea deal and the $800/hr lawyer hired later will get the charges dropped (usually on some technicality). For what it's worth, the inmates are doing what the paralegals do.


A penny saved is a penny earned.

There's also penny wise and dollar dumb. I know people who will burn a half-gallon of fuel looking for that store that is a nickel less than everyone else. Then there's the folks who buy the E10 blend when 100% gasoline is also available for less than 20% more. Or the folks who buy tools repeatedly at Harbor Freight when (typically after the third or fourth replacement) they could have bought a quality tool with a lifetime usually-no-questions warranty the first time.

I've had clients come to me after walking away from sticker shock and hiring someone on Odesk or Elance or Craigslist or offshoring the work and pay even more than the original estimate to get everything done right. I had one a couple of years ago that sent over a great design from the marketing company they were using, then midway through they discovered Photoshop and insisted on using their inferior design because they made it - if I hadn't needed the money at the time, I would've told him to go find someone else.

billbenson
10-26-2014, 11:32 PM
Brian, you can get quality work from India etc. I have a friend who does well creating companies and uses them. The thing is, he's spent 30 years developing those contacts. It's not throwing darts at the yellow pages.

Brian Altenhofel
10-26-2014, 11:37 PM
Brian, you can get quality work from India etc. I have a friend who does well creating companies and uses them. The thing is, he's spent 30 years developing those contacts. It's not throwing darts at the yellow pages.

Definitely. I've done offshoring before and received quality work, but one of the biggest issues I had was the hidden overhead introduced mostly by cultural and language differences. I found that, when all of the costs were calculated, I could hire someone competitively in Oklahoma for about the same or slightly less than the total cost of the offshore resource.

Harold Mansfield
10-26-2014, 11:39 PM
Nope. Developers get access to a code repository. It is not the actual hosting environment. No FTP access (which is extremely insecure anyway), no SSH access. File and directory permissions are enforced so the developer who changes file permissions to 0755 for the entire site doesn't open a big hole when their changes are deployed.

Besides, if the site is just HTML, CSS, and some Javascript, then a developer should be able to make those changes in the browser and export them.

Dude. I know what I need, to do whatever the task is. People call me for a variety of problems. And if I need FTP access or your hosting log in to fix it, then that's what I need. In 5 years I've worked with all levels of clients and it's never been a problem.

Most of my clients have no idea what directory permissions are, what to do with an exported file, or what 0755 means.

No one is second guessing your process, I was talking about mine and the people that I deal with. How you do yours is your thing. That doesn't make mine wrong. You seem to do that to me a lot lately. Why?

Brian Altenhofel
10-27-2014, 01:36 AM
Everyone has their preferences. Just because you have yours, doesn't mean everyone else is wrong.

It's not a preference. I work with clients subject to PCI-DSS, FISMA, HIPAA, and other strict standards or regulations, and it's standard procedure for developers to not have direct access to the hosting environment because that level of access is not the minimum required. It's "here's the code repository, here's a sanitized database dump, and (ideally) here's a Vagrant box configured similar to production".

All I'm saying is that Richard's aversion to allowing the developer to upload their changes to his hosting environment is not unreasonable.

Freelancier
10-27-2014, 08:18 AM
All I'm saying is that Richard's aversion to allowing the developer to upload their changes to his hosting environment is not unreasonable.Given the content of the discussions, I'd say "yeah, it's not reasonable." Not once has he mentioned data security or doing something that would require a high level of security practice.

Harold Mansfield
10-27-2014, 11:41 AM
It's not a preference. I work with clients subject to PCI-DSS, FISMA, HIPAA, and other strict standards or regulations, and it's standard procedure for developers to not have direct access to the hosting environment because that level of access is not the minimum required. It's "here's the code repository, here's a sanitized database dump, and (ideally) here's a Vagrant box configured similar to production".

All I'm saying is that Richard's aversion to allowing the developer to upload their changes to his hosting environment is not unreasonable.


Given the content of the discussions, I'd say "yeah, it's not reasonable." Not once has he mentioned data security or doing something that would require a high level of security practice.

Exactly. We weren't talking about anything close to that. So for his purposes it kind of is unreasonable for him to expect a designer/developer to fix something yet not want to give them access to anything since he isn't as technologically advanced as you are and needs someone to do all of the work.

I get where you are coming from, but I think sometimes you ignore that we are talking about novices and small business owners who aren't tech savvy nor have very complicated websites, and contradict peoples advice with unrelated processes that aren't applicable to the situation being discussed.

shovel
10-28-2014, 12:21 AM
if you could just take a few hours to learn the ropes, you could do it yourself. I would recommend checking out studiopress for a decent theme. Otherwise, fiverr, elance, ect...

RichardtheFrog
10-28-2014, 09:59 AM
I will do that.

ashmoremedia
11-02-2014, 07:22 PM
I'm in Melbourne Australia so I can't compete with the prices offered in India etc but you would be surprised at the cost. I can usually put something together within someone's budget. Especially if it comes with the promise of future work.

RichardtheFrog
11-03-2014, 12:32 AM
Does anyone know a good free web hosting site? I was using 000webhost.com but they started giving me trouble over something that didn't happen. My current living conditions do not allow me to host from home.

I have to show you my awesome $5 site from India when I get it on Monday!!!

billbenson
11-03-2014, 12:46 AM
If I understand you correctly, you don't want to host from home. You will use up a ton of bandwidth and your ISP will shut you down.

If you are talking about managing a website from home, a shared host is only going to cost you $10 per month. There is plenty of free software out there to properly build and maintain a site.

Wozcreative
11-03-2014, 10:49 AM
If you wanted free hosting you probably should have gone with wordpress.org, i think it's free. Or tumblr.

Harold Mansfield
11-03-2014, 11:31 AM
If you wanted free hosting you probably should have gone with wordpress.org, i think it's free. Or tumblr.

WordPress.com is free, but limited to whatever themes and plug ins are on it and there is no access to the files to change anything. There are also rules against certain kinds of blogs/websites, advertising, affiliate links and so on. Basically no commercial websites at all.

You can however use your own domain for a one time fee.


WordPress.org is for self hosted websites. You download and install it on your server/hosting so you have full control over whatever you want to do with it.

Wozcreative
11-03-2014, 01:33 PM
Yes sorry.. ".com" was what I meant.. but no way of importing of your own files as far as I understand.

Harold Mansfield
11-03-2014, 01:39 PM
Yes sorry.. ".com" was what I meant.. but no way of importing of your own files as far as I understand.
That is correct. You are limited to what they offer as far as designs and tools go. There are some basic customization options, but nothing fancy.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 12:16 AM
My site is back from fiverr.com and when I click the link, the site is not working even though it was working just 2 days ago.

I have tried different browsers and they all give me problems. Also, hostinger.co.uk is not coming up and 000webhost.com stopped working.

But I will show you that site as soon as I can.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 03:43 AM
I got the file back and it is a .psd file. How can I convert this to something I can upload on a server, such as .html and/or .css?

Wozcreative
11-05-2014, 10:22 AM
I got the file back and it is a .psd file. How can I convert this to something I can upload on a server, such as .html and/or .css?

$5. All he did was take a PSD template and paste in your copy and colours. Now you will have to hire someone from inida for $500+ to get it coded.

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 10:33 AM
I got the file back and it is a .psd file. How can I convert this to something I can upload on a server, such as .html and/or .css?
No, you can't "convert" it. Someone still has to build it. All you got was a picture of what a website looks like. Congratulations! At least you only lost $5.

Brian Altenhofel
11-05-2014, 11:49 AM
And hope he didn't violate any IP laws...

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 12:07 PM
Of just copy a screenshot of someone elses website, took 2 minutes to change a few colors in photoshop and then billed you $5.

Freelancier
11-05-2014, 12:36 PM
Being charged $5 for what several people here said would cost over $1000. What could go wrong?

Wozcreative
11-05-2014, 01:01 PM
How is it that you saw a website and didn't realize the content is in a picture and not html?

Your next $5 website coding purchase will be:

<html>
<head></head>
<body><img src="http://domain.com/my5DollarWebsite.png" /></body>
</html>

... in other words someone will just paste the image into an html page. That's worth $5 work right there. But i give it to you for free.

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 01:21 PM
How is it that you saw a website and didn't realize the content is in a picture and not html?

Your next $5 website coding purchase will be:

<html>
<head></head>
<body><img src="http://domain.com/my5DollarWebsite.png" /></body>
</html>
... in other words someone will just paste the image into an html page. That's worth $5 work right there. But i give it to you for free.
Because he wanted to believe that he was getting a $5 website, and didn't do any further learning about what building a website actually means and entails.
Easy money.

Wozcreative
11-05-2014, 01:29 PM
Because he wanted to believe that he was getting a $5 website, and didn't do any further learning about what building a website actually means and entails.
Easy money.

And this is why, when I want something done, I'll seek the advice of a professional and when I'm still not sure, I'll seek advice of many professionals and actually LISTEN to what they have to say rather than spend my time telling them their wrong when I have no damn clue what I'm talking about.

Tmuse
11-05-2014, 01:52 PM
Isn't there a saying that goes something like this??
Pay Peanuts...Attract Monkeys

Or this...521
Meaning you get what you pay for.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 05:45 PM
No actually I paid $20 more for the .html code and will get it later today. It actually said that in the ad, I just didn't read it at first. I'll post what the site looks like when it's done. And I host for free on awardspace.com

And when I have the .html, I can edit that for free.

I will post a screenshot here in a second.

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 05:53 PM
No actually I paid $20 more for the .html code and will get it later today. It actually said that in the ad, I just didn't read it at first. I'll post what the site looks like when it's done. And I host for free on awardspace.com

And when I have the .html, I can edit that for free.

I will post a screenshot here in a second.
I'm on the edge of my seat. With that and your $5 SEO customers should be beating down your door.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 05:54 PM
I couldn't upload the picture to this forum, so I put it as the picture on the FaceBook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/American-Spinal-Cord-Injury-Foundation/447599505380416

Not too bad for $25. You're telling me that it would be worth paying an extra $975 for a website made in the United States?

It's not "paying for peanuts," it's outsourcing.

And the FaceBook page will be updated as well. That is not what the FaceBook page will look like when it's done, obviously.

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 06:23 PM
I couldn't upload the picture to this forum, so I put it as the picture on the FaceBook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/American-Spinal-Cord-Injury-Foundation/447599505380416

Not too bad for $25. You're telling me that it would be worth paying an extra $975 for a website made in the United States?

It's not "paying for peanuts," it's outsourcing.

And the FaceBook page will be updated as well. That is not what the FaceBook page will look like when it's done, obviously.

OMG, you're a charity?

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 06:27 PM
I couldn't upload the picture to this forum, so I put it as the picture on the FaceBook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/American-Spinal-Cord-Injury-Foundation/447599505380416

Not too bad for $25. You're telling me that it would be worth paying an extra $975 for a website made in the United States?

It's not "paying for peanuts," it's outsourcing.

And the FaceBook page will be updated as well. That is not what the FaceBook page will look like when it's done, obviously.

No. No one ever told you that because none of us ever had any idea what kind of website you needed built. That was what you said. If that's all you needed, you could have done that yourself with a free template which looks like exactly what you got for $25.
http://www.freewebsitetemplates.com/

Even though all I see is a picture. I don't see a website.

So let me guess, you're going to go on Google images and just swipe some one elses pictures to use as well. Right?

tallen
11-05-2014, 06:32 PM
Richard, didn't you use a template originally? So we really need to see what it looked like before you outsourced the tweaks, as well as the final product, in order to evaluate the outsourced work...

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 07:32 PM
That is true. But I've seen the portfolio's of some of the people on this site, and it is not worth $975 of difference is it?

I will put up what I had in a little while. I think it was worth the $25.

Yes, I'm a charity. Did you not see my post about solicitations of contributions?

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 07:44 PM
That is true. But I've seen the portfolio's of some of the people on this site, and it is not worth $975 of difference is it?
Um, yeah it is. You know about 5 minutes worth of knowledge about the web, and you have a website that reflects that and your budget.
Other people have different needs and require more in depth work and want something a little more original, and possibly even built on a certain CMS platform with specific functionality. The time that someone spends to create that for them costs money.

Don't start bashing people's portfolio's and rates. You don't have enough knowledge about what any of us do or the web, or websites to even think you can do that or else you wouldn't be here asking us questions about it. All you see is put some HTML online and that's good enough. Most people are beyond the free templates stage.



I will put up what I had in a little while. I think it was worth the $25.
I think you got what you paid for. If it works for you that's all that matters.


Yes, I'm a charity. Did you not see my post about solicitations of contributions?

I find that fascinating. Are you going to be posting your legal and tax status on the website as well as full contact information and public records of where contributions go and how they are used? I'd love to see that.

Wozcreative
11-05-2014, 08:01 PM
That is true. But I've seen the portfolio's of some of the people on this site, and it is not worth $975 of difference is it?

I will put up what I had in a little while. I think it was worth the $25.

Yes, I'm a charity. Did you not see my post about solicitations of contributions?

This coming from someone that just "skims" information and thinks they know everything... couldn't even figure out initially that the website submitted was just an image... and the bleak fiverr ad was too much to understand that you'd have to pay extra for the development.. which was actually just already developed the designer just charged you for it.

People have said it and I'll say it again.. you're a troll. The people on here have really good portfolios (at least the ones who are active on the forum). Just so you know.. there are people out there that respect our profession and that's all that matters. We can comfortably live off our services and get happy repeat customers.

I don't know what to say to you... I'm pretty disgusted. Especially considering you are a charity... I consider charitable organizations to have empathy and put themselves in other people's shoes and not their own.

I'm done here.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 08:09 PM
So I should take $975 away from a charitable organization to get a "slightly better" web site?

That doesn't make too much sense.

How do you know what I know? I don't know about the web? I'm pretty sure I do. ICANN, registrars, etc.

Unless I am missing something, there is no significant difference between the site I have and the ones you make.

No matter how good of a website you can make, it is still a discretionary item. Obviously, you all make good websites, but I don't see why they are $975 better than that one from India.

Do you not think the girl from India considers herself a professional?

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 08:42 PM
So I should take $975 away from a charitable organization to get a "slightly better" web site?

That doesn't make too much sense.
It will.

...and it's not "taking money away", it's setting it up for success. You can't half ass your way to success whether you be a charity, or a for profit business. But you'll learn that one way or another.


How do you know what I know?
You show your hand every time you open your mouth.


Unless I am missing something, there is no significant difference between the site I have and the ones you make.
You are missing a lot. But you'll have to figure it out for yourself. It's a waste of anyone's time to try and help you at this point because you are positive that we professionals don't know what we're talking about and that you are smarter than us about the thing we do for a living. That people smarter than you actually pay us to do.


No matter how good of a website you can make, it is still a discretionary item.
For you it is. For other charities it's an important tool for their marketing, advertising, communications and fund raising. It's important because it's where they are asking people for money. So not only does it have to be designed well, written well, optimized well, informative, functional, user friendly, mobile friendly, secure, and have the ability to actually take donations, it has to give the user a sense of credibility and professionalism. Other charities don't think of their website as "discretionary" in 2014, nor does ANY successful organization anywhere in the world.

But you've made it clear that you are smarter than all of them, and have it all figured out. That's fine.
Just don't get upset when 99% of the active members of this forum who are actually successful in business, and have already learned the lessons that you refuse to acknowledge, don't agree with you.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 08:51 PM
But would you agree that the site sent from India looks good? To me, it looks just about as good as the site for the Christopher Reeve Foundation.

Plus, I'm not necessarily trying to make my living off of a charitable organization. If it works, it does, if not, then whatever. It's kind of a side project.

I have some pretty stiff competition. But we are hosting events in the Orlando area and you bet the pictures will be on the site.

No, I think you assume I don't know what I already know.

For example, when you asked was I going to post my financials. Of course. And seeing as I am not yet 501(c)3, I think I would rather use $400 for that rather than a slightly better site.

Or maybe I can get someone to do the site for free when it gets off the ground a little bit.

And I suppose a "professional" would pay for hosting rather than do it for free, right?

Discretionary in terms of the economy at large. As opposed to, say, rice.

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 08:56 PM
But would you agree that the site sent from India looks good? To me, it looks just about as good as the site for the Christopher Reeve Foundation.

Plus, I'm not necessarily trying to make my living off of a charitable organization. If it works, it does, if not, then whatever. It's kind of a side project.

I have some pretty stiff competition. But we are hosting events in the Orlando area and you bet the pictures will be on the site.
No I do not agree that it's anything close to the website for the Christopher Reeve foundation and if I was a donor and I had to choose between which site made me feel comfortable enough to give money , it wouldn't be your $25 website because I'd expect a credible charity to take their web presence more seriously and professionally if they want my money.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 09:27 PM
If I had a million bucks, I would do that.

Even if I had the best web site in the world, I'm not sure I could take much away from the Christopher Reeve Foundation. I'm basically just a knock off of that anyway.

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 09:29 PM
For example, when you asked was I going to post my financials. Of course. And seeing as I am not yet 501(c)3, I think I would rather use $400 for that rather than a slightly better site.

So you're just some dude asking for donations online, across state lines, with no Federal Tax approval to do so? You should save that $400 for bail. You're going to need it.


Or maybe I can get someone to do the site for free when it gets off the ground a little bit.

Good luck with that.

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 09:30 PM
If I had a million bucks, I would do that.
You will never have a million bucks unless you hit the lottery.

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 09:43 PM
Maybe when I sell all my real estate in 40 years I will.

You don't need 501(c)3 to get donations. You only need that to be tax exempt.

And most of our donations would not come from online.

Do you know the answer to that solicitation question? Does every charity that is online have solicitation licenses in every single state? And what about overseas donations.

Christopher Reeve is "just a dude" too.

I think the fact that that fiverr site is very nice is lost here. I think it is a good site.

Here's how I will have a million dollars. Take our mortgage. Buy house. Rent house. Repeat as often as possible.

Sell them all decades down the road. The tenants will be buying them for me, in essence.

This non-profit is really something just for fun, anyway. That $975 would be better used as a downpayment.

billbenson
11-05-2014, 10:14 PM
Just out of curiosity, how do you plan on getting people to find your site in a google search? Where is your web traffic going to come from?

Harold Mansfield
11-05-2014, 10:24 PM
That $975 would be better used as a downpayment.
It will come in handy much more for bail.

Brian Altenhofel
11-05-2014, 10:38 PM
http://i.imgur.com/agJIP.gif

Wozcreative
11-05-2014, 10:55 PM
Brian, I'll join ya! 522

Fulcrum
11-05-2014, 10:59 PM
This non-profit is really something just for fun, anyway. That $975 would be better used as a downpayment.

This here is where I have to tell you to exercise caution. A non-profit is not something you should set up and run "just for fun". Can you have fun doing it? Of course, but to do it just for fun is wrong. Charities are serious business and need to be handled as such. Get yourself properly registered for tax exemption status and whatever else is needed according to the government. If you do not dot the "I's" and cross the "T's" perfectly, you will be opening yourself up to some major liabilities.

As to your site itself, as far as I can tell (remember that I have virtually no web design experience) you don't have a website yet - you have a picture. Is the picture a representation of what the site could look like? Probably. I'm curious to see if you may get hit with a bait & switch.

Not to sidetrack the main purpose of this thread, but your idea to make your money with simple rentals appears to not be fully thought through. It appears to me that your excitement is blinding you to the risks. I've read many of the books and paid for some of the "training courses" (Carleton Sheets, Russ Dalby, Robert Kiyosaki, etc.) and almost all of them have one thing in common - they downplay the risks to the point of making them moot. The best lesson that I learned from these books was to see through hype to what they are actually saying.

Before your threads turn into name calling and hurt feelings, I'm going to say that I believe that everyone here wants to see you succeed. We're all trying to help you with our experience (both mistakes we may have made or from mistakes made by others that we've had to fix) and you come across as not caring what we are saying/recommending. When we recommend that you get professionals (legal, tax, accounting, etc), there's a reason behind it and we don't want to see you make a mistake.

I'm going to end this with a saying. I don't know who originally said it so all I can say is that it wasn't me:

"A smart person learns from his mistakes. A wise person will find a smart person and learn how not to make the mistake in the first place."

RichardtheFrog
11-05-2014, 11:15 PM
I do not plan to make the money from rentals. I plan to subsist on rentals for decades and cash in late down the road when I sell all of the properties that have been paid off by then.

I know the laws. I do not plan to pay myself much, if any, from this nonprofit anyway. You do not actually NEED 501(c)3 to be a nonprofit, but it just gets you the tax exempt status.

I looked into SEO a few months ago. I'll have to do it again and get back to you probably tomorrow. I know it's not as simple as it was back in middle school when I was into .html and they wrote it into the code. Let me get back to you on that one.

And it is not just a picture. She is getting back to me with the code. Then, I will have it to edit however I want.

Do you all agree it's a pretty good site for $25? I have seen the portfolios of the people on this site and obviously they are good sites, but I don't think it's worth $975.

If I were the Christopher Reeve Foundation, then sure. Or is I was McDonald's or Coca-Cola, then yes I would say it would be worth it.

And I did look at the one that was specifically geared towards non-profits. It looked amazing. I wish I had that site. I also wish I had a million bucks.

And someone called that girl from India a monkey. That wasn't very nice. I'm going to tell her you said that.

Do you think your sites are better than hers?

https://www.fiverr.com/websparkles/design-a-creative-and-stunning-webpage?funnel=2014110603200049512432180

Those are pretty nice looking sites in my opinion. To me, it's the same as outsourcing factory work.

I said above that I know the laws. I should rephrase. I know enough to not get put in jail. What about this? If I'm on FaceBook, then I am available to the whole world. So do I need a solicitation license in Rwanda as well? Each and every state (or whatever they have) in Rwanda? So would I get put in Rwandan jail if someone donated from Rwanda?

Although I did hear once about a guy getting arrested in Florida for selling a book about how to seduce young children that he was selling online from some other state. Maybe a civil attorney will provide me with a FREE consultation. Or maybe someone on the law forum I'm on will know the answer.

Oh, and I put the site I made out of a free template on the FaceBook page as well. I know it has typographical errors. It was a work in progress when I decided to go with fiverr. I think it was $25 well spent.

Fulcrum
11-05-2014, 11:50 PM
Well, I tried to help. But you know everything and, from all appearances, have ignored us.

I tried to explain why we all have answered, for the most part, why we did. But you know that our experiences won't be of help to you.

I tried to get you to think worst case. But you know only the good and are being willfully blind.

Go out and do what you want. Run your business(es) how you want. Come back in six months with some real world business experience under your belt. Prove us wrong. Prove to us that you do know it all.

I'm done with trying to help you at this time so I'm going to join Brian and Woz and enjoy some popcorn.

RichardtheFrog
11-06-2014, 12:45 AM
Worst case scenario is what? Get in legal trouble for illegally soliciting in places I don't have the license to do so? That is why I am asking that question so I don't do that.

Other than that... worst case is..... this nonprofit raises $0 and wastes money because I have to continue to register the website and for the corporate annual report.

What is worst case other than that? I am all ears.

I think you assume I don't know things that I already do. I could show you lots of case law on what is considered "a reasonable amount" for a nonprofit executive to pay him or herself. But I don't plan on paying myself much, if anything, any way.

And if you are talking about "real world" experience of buying houses and being a landlord. I know many people that do that.

I am all ears to what you think you have been trying to warn me of that I am not listening to.

Sit back and watch and I will tell you what you will see.....

A nonprofit that didn't really do much because it was really just a side project anyway. The experience was fun, though.

I am all ears.......

Brian Altenhofel
11-06-2014, 01:03 AM
Hold out for the book deal. It will be a New York Times bestseller.

billbenson
11-06-2014, 01:08 AM
I looked into SEO a few months ago. I'll have to do it again and get back to you probably tomorrow. I know it's not as simple as it was back in middle school when I was into .html and they wrote it into the code. Let me get back to you on that one.

Having a pretty site with no marketing is like being a beautiful blond, stranded on a desert island. Nobody is going to find her.

Marketing your site is the first thing that should be considered. It should be done before even starting to write the website. In fact it is an integral part of the website.

Google will generally ignore sites made by web builders which is what you are doing and free hosting.

You say you looked into SEO a few months ago, but need to look at it again. People here have spent years learning it and are still studying. Web design is an big part of SEO. You are building a web site but know nothing about SEO....

RichardtheFrog
11-06-2014, 01:11 AM
Okay I just did a google search on the subject. I don't know why I ask questions on these forums rather than just using google.

State Registration Requirements for Fundraising (http://www.guidestar.org/rxa/news/articles/2014/state-registration-requirements-for-fundraising.aspx)

"Know nothing." That is what you assume.

RichardtheFrog
11-06-2014, 02:03 AM
Apparently, if I actively ask for a donation to any state, I need to be registered in that state. 40 states require registration. In Florida, it was $10 for the license, so if that is the average, that would be $400 per year for registration. I don't really think it's worth it at this point. Even if I raise $100,000, I do not plan to pay myself anything under ideal circumstances, so is it worth the time? Why would anyone donate to me rather than the Christopher Reeve Foundation?

I think I could just stay in Florida and host events in this area. I have been talking to an event planner. That could be my competitive advantage.

But the question remains, if someone donates from Nigeria, will I end up in Nigerian jail? I hope not. Lol.

Maybe I could put a disclaimer saying "I am registered to solicit donations from Florida and any other place that does not require a license to do so." That way, it is on them and I didn't ask for it.

It's past midnight and no response from fiverr. Do you think this Indian b**** ripped me off? I doubt it. If so, I'm booking the first flight to New Delhi!

Harold Mansfield
11-06-2014, 07:54 PM
Maybe I could put a disclaimer saying "I am registered to solicit donations from Florida and any other place that does not require a license to do so." That way, it is on them and I didn't ask for it.

That sounds like a good plan. Who needs lawyers for legal stuff when you can just guess?

RichardtheFrog
11-06-2014, 10:38 PM
It's not a guess. As long as I'm not actively soliciting in those areas, then I'm good. And I got the .html and .css files. I'm doing some editing. It will probably be up in about a week or so. The sites look good, I think.

Just like so many people pay lawyers to register their corporation, when you can just go to the site for the Division of Corporations and do it yourself.

TTS
11-07-2014, 09:46 AM
That sounds like a good plan. Who needs lawyers for legal stuff when you can just guess?

You must have missed his post that said he's on a legal forum so he can tell them how much he knows about law. I can only imagine the fun lawyers have laughing at his posts.

RichardtheFrog
11-07-2014, 05:10 PM
Do you know how easy the law is? If something isn't completely obvious, all you have to do is be directed to the appropriate statute or regulation.

And if you look closely, I just found the answer to what I was seeking without paying for it.

I have a disclaimer on my site saying "..... is a registered solicitor in the state of Florida."

Yes I am on a legal forum. That's how I was directed to all the case law about what is "a reasonable amount" for a nonprofit owner to pay himself.

You don't need to go to law school to know the law.

Go here...

leg.state.fl.us

Or go to school to learn the same thing. Now to get a LICENSE, that is another story.

You don't need to have a degree or to be professionally licensed to know how to do something. The only exceptions I would see would be surgeons and others in the medical field. That is something I would not do myself.

Harold Mansfield
11-07-2014, 05:57 PM
Yes Richard, hiring a lawyer to insure that you are doing things correctly and legally is a waste of money because you become an expert by just going online. Everything is a waste of money when you are an expert in everything the way you are. I'd be interested in knowing when all of this expert knowledge actually makes you any money and why you aren't wealthy yet.

RichardtheFrog
11-07-2014, 07:43 PM
I don't plan to be wealthy for another 30 years. So should I hire a Landlord and Tenant attorney to go over my lease contract?

Or should I just read it myself and consult the statutes because I know how to read English?

Harold Mansfield
11-07-2014, 08:11 PM
Richard there is nothing wrong with learning to do things for yourself. Many of us do. But you don't the know the difference between which things you should do yourself, and which things are best left to a professional because you don't have the ability to do them well.

Smart people know that they don't know everything, and can't do everything well.

Tracyzxcvb
11-07-2014, 09:02 PM
You can go to fivver.com and they can help you. Its a list of people on that site that will do just about any service that you need for $5

TTS
11-08-2014, 10:49 AM
Yeah the website is great. I would go get a $5 rental/ lease contract and make your millions man.

Paul
11-08-2014, 02:08 PM
Do you know how easy the law is? If something isn't completely obvious, all you have to do is be directed to the appropriate statute or regulation. ........You don't need to go to law school to know the law..

Are you sure?

Lawyers LOVE guys like you! You think you’re saving a few bucks doing your own “legal work”. But what do you do when you have to litigate over a deficient contract? You have to hire a lawyer! Then the few hundred you saved turns into thousands you pay.

A term here, a sentence there, a forgotten provision, even punctuation in a legal document can change the entire complexion of the agreement.

Of course we can all read the law. We can all do basic contracts and agreements. But if you become involved with more complex business issues or have to deal with state or federal agencies and regulators you had better know what you are talking about!

Have you ever litigated anything? Have you ever been a defendant? Have you ever actually had to respond to a law suit, complaint, state or federal government agency investigation, interrogatory, or even a simple local zoning board or building inspector?

Have you ever been a plaintiff? Do you know how to prosecute an eviction, breach of contract or other action?

I know nothing about charitable regulations or the agencies involved. But I do know about other state and federal regulations. I’ve learned that “there is no problem until there is a problem”, meaning that you can get away with homemade legal work until it goes to court. Then the real attorneys, prosecutors and agencies shred you into little pieces.

Complying with government regulations is serious! The consequences of doing something improperly are serious! Regulators and prosecutors are not gentle or forgiving.

As a starting entrepreneur you will need to do many things yourself. Just don’t be foolish about it. A simple disclaimer on a website isn't exactly a comprehensive legal strategy.

Harold Mansfield
11-08-2014, 02:26 PM
I too learned the hard way and it cost me $2,000. I suspect Richard won't listen to reason from any of us until it hits the fan and he realizes that he didn't know as much as he thought he did and it costs him money and a lot of anguish.

I think we all totally agree that if he has an issue, which he almost certainly will because he thinks everything is easy, who ever is on the other side of the legal system for what ever rule he violated will tear him to shreds and he'll have no leg to stand on because he refused to seek the advice of a professional who could have insured that he was protected and doing things properly.

With what he's trying to do he stands to lose a lot more than that, and probably be up on criminal charges...but sometimes people have to learn for themselves.

As Paul accurately points out, Charity, Soliciting Donations, and state by state and federal regulations are nothing to play with and only a fool would think they can wing it without the help of a professional to set it up properly.

RichardtheFrog
11-08-2014, 04:27 PM
I'll let you know when I'm not in jail. Are you saying that $5 is too little to pay for a lease agreement? Because they actually give out free forms from the clerks office.

Yes, I know how to handle evictions. It's easy and is clearly written in the statutes how to handle it. Not only that, the local county Bar Association provides free legal services for Landlord and Tenant issues.

Harold Mansfield
11-08-2014, 05:03 PM
I'll let you know when I'm not in jail. Are you saying that $5 is too little to pay for a lease agreement? Because they actually give out free forms from the clerks office.

Yes, I know how to handle evictions. It's easy and is clearly written in the statutes how to handle it. Not only that, the local county Bar Association provides free legal services for Landlord and Tenant issues.
You get what you pay for. My attorney will kick your free legal advice in the ass everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. And they'll do it so fast that you won't have time to Google search what just happened, what it means, and what you need to do next. You will have already lost.

But obviously you live in a world where no one is ever going to be smarter than you and everything is easy. Good luck with that.

Paul
11-08-2014, 07:38 PM
Yes, I know how to handle evictions. It's easy and is clearly written in the statutes how to handle it. Not only that, the local county Bar Association provides free legal services for Landlord and Tenant issues.

Hmm...have you ever actually done it? Or anything even remotely similar in the legal system? Do you really think they are going to give you, the landlord, free legal counsel? What are you going to do when the tenant counterclaims?

Brian Altenhofel
11-08-2014, 09:40 PM
Not only that, the local county Bar Association provides free legal services for Landlord and Tenant issues.

...for tenants with limited income and assets.

RichardtheFrog
11-08-2014, 11:10 PM
Well regardless, I know a guy who is a landlord. He is 20 years old and plays computer games all day and he manages to handle it.

Screening tenants wisely would be a good bet.

But I suppose I could be considered somewhat of a "troll" until I actually do this, rather than just sitting here speculating about it.

And I don't do it right now because I have to save a little more for a downpayment.

But if you take any old property, you can rent it out for more than PITI and have some for repairs. I know this because I've done the math. It always comes to about $200/month.

And I do realize that a MS Excel spreadsheet is not actually doing it. I will let you know when I am renting a duplex in about 2-3 months.

RichardtheFrog
11-08-2014, 11:14 PM
I'm going to refer to the terms on the lease contract and the rules written in the statutes. I have known people who have went to court on Landlord and Tenant issues. They did not have law degrees. They were landlords and even maintenance people. It doesn't take a genius.

singhabhishek251
11-10-2014, 02:53 AM
Given today's market I am not surprised at what some is expecting for how much price because I am sure that if he will tell that he want a complete website for $5, then also he will get some proposal for sure and it won't be surprising as I myself has seen some jobs like this and people fighting over it to get that.

RichardtheFrog
11-10-2014, 03:07 AM
Yea it's all about the economy. That's why the people in India are willing to do the same work for less.

One time, I posted an advertisement on craigslist saying I needed a website made. I got about 65 responses offering $1,000. All their portfolios looked great, but I got 65 responses. It's supply and demand. Someone should be able or willing to come down. It's not like you need to buy materials or anything.

Freelancier
11-10-2014, 08:23 AM
It's not like you need to buy materials or anything.Troll bait!

Harold Mansfield
11-10-2014, 12:41 PM
Yea it's all about the economy. That's why the people in India are willing to do the same work for less.
The same kind of people who will do a $5 website in India are the same kind of people who will do it in America. Hacks and Con artists. India is not the poor, under developed, 3rd world nation that doesn't know the value of design and IT work that you think it is. India is booming and the tech sectors are leading the way.

People who know what they are doing, cost money. Doesn't matter what country they are in. It's a world economy. It's not the 1970's anymore and you aren't hiring seamstresses to patch together Polo Shirts.


One time, I posted an advertisement on craigslist saying I needed a website made. I got about 65 responses offering $1,000. All their portfolios looked great, but I got 65 responses. It's supply and demand. Someone should be able or willing to come down.

Any web designer that is trolling Craig's list is targeting people who have no idea what they are doing, which is why they are on Craig's list looking for web designers. It's the same as going on Ebay to buy a website. The people selling them there know that that's where they are going to find the suckers.

Of course everything is supply and demand and right now demand is great and the supply of quality web professionals is low.


It's not like you need to buy materials or anything.
Further proof that you have no idea what you're talking about and don't respect people's time, and knowledge. The web design business today is much like Day Trading used to be in the 90's and House flipping was in the 2000's. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has thrown their hat into the ring because they think it's easy money, but too many have NO IDEA what they are doing.

And if you have no idea what you're doing, then you are a perfect match.

Trust me, I spend 50% of my time fixing the bad work of other web designers and trouble shooting issues from "Experts" who are now nowhere to be found. I have hundreds of horror stories of people on the other end of the phone who got screwed, and now have to pay me more money to clean it up, fix it, or recover something because their $300 website crashed, is in the sandbox, was hacked, has graphics or images on it that infringes on someone's copyright, or is tagged as a spam site by Google.

I can understand that you want people to lower their prices because that's what you want personally. But what will you say to a tenant who says the exact same thing to you?

Things cost money. Depending on your needs there can be a lot of things that require licensing or need to be purchased. Also, people's time is valuable.

Just like you aren't going to call a plumber and just pay him for the price of the part that he installs, you're not going to find a web designer that knows what they are doing and just pay them for cost of a template and not the time that it takes to install it and set it up for you.

Business is not one sized fits all and neither are websites. Just because that's all you need, don't try and apply that to everyone elses business and make sweeping generalizations of what something else costs.

One thing is for certain, one way or another you will either do it yourself, pay to have it done properly, or you will waste at least 3x's the money trying to do it cheaply.

billbenson
11-10-2014, 01:15 PM
Yea it's all about the economy. That's why the people in India are willing to do the same work for less.

It's not $5 though. Competent people deal in a world market. You are also avoiding the fact that you need to be found, be it google or SERPS. I have a friend who has spent a career developing competent contacts in India. It's taken him 30 years. They are there. I doubt you have found one in such a short period of time.


That's why the people in India are willing to do the same work for less.

There are incompetent people everywhere. What makes India different.


One time, I posted an advertisement on craigslist saying I needed a website made. I got about 65 responses offering $1,000. All their portfolios looked great, but I got 65 responses. It's supply and demand. Someone should be able or willing to come down.

How do you qualify them? Probably mostly college kids that will leave you on the last page of Google.

Besides that you don't have the skill to evaluate their portfolios. You haven't been there and done that. You don't even know what SEO is. I don't intend to be mean, but you don't have the knowledge to hire somebody.

Wozcreative
11-10-2014, 01:23 PM
Yea it's all about the economy. That's why the people in India are willing to do the same work for less.

One time, I posted an advertisement on craigslist saying I needed a website made. I got about 65 responses offering $1,000. All their portfolios looked great, but I got 65 responses. It's supply and demand. Someone should be able or willing to come down. It's not like you need to buy materials or anything.

Don't pay for anything? You serious right? For starters I pay $70/month for my adobe creative software, then theres the electricity, accounting software, yearly server costs, phone bills for those phone calls for the project, papers/pens etc., additional software/plugins. This is just basic stuff. And if you pay online via CC or paypal I have the cost of the fees for collecting money with those services...

How can you be so dense...

Harold Mansfield
11-10-2014, 01:40 PM
I just want to add there there are plenty of people in India, Sri Lanka, China, Pakistan that know Americans are easy targets. If that's where you want to send your money when you know NOTHING about who you are dealing with, go for it. The more people that keep thinking they can get something for nothing the longer I stay in business cleaning up the mess and doing it the right way.

RichardtheFrog
11-10-2014, 06:41 PM
Why do you think I don't know what SEO is? Search Engine Optimization.

Servers are free to me. So is PayPal.

I can look at a web site and see if it's just as good as all the other ones, and they all said "SEO specialist" in their response.

But I don't want to get into a long thing... I guess my web site needs are different than others.

Harold Mansfield
11-10-2014, 06:51 PM
Why do you think I don't know what SEO is? Search Engine Optimization.
You still don't know what it means or what it entails. At least not in 2014. I will agree that you have a basic 1997 understanding of it which anyone can get from wikipedia, but the world and the web has advanced since then. You know nothing of strategies, best practices, Google updates, or how to actually get results.

What you know about SEO won't get you anywhere.



Servers are free to me.

Good for you. Most businesses wouldn't be caught dead on a free server for many reasons that you aren't going to understand including lack of control, security, ads, speed, and proprietary information, but if it works for you, good for you.


So is PayPal.
How exactly is Pay Pal free for you? What are you going to do use your personal account to handle business matters and take donations and mark them as money transfers from family and friends? The Feds going to love that one. So will your contributors.


I can look at a web site and see if it's just as good as all the other ones, and they all said "SEO specialist" in their response.
No you can't because you have no idea what you're looking at and what is happening behind the scenes. All you know how to do is look at the pretty colors and pictures. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about you're just making it worse. It's OK not to know everything.


I guess my web site needs are different than others.
The truest thing you've said yet. Just remember that what you are doing is fine for you. Stop acting like that's good enough for everyone else because apparently you only know one kind of website. Free html templates.

RichardtheFrog
11-10-2014, 07:15 PM
I will let you know when I have the website up and I get it to the front page of google. I am probably not even going to do that non-profit thing, but I will do this just to show you that I can.

"Jack of all trades, master of none." is one way to put it...

But there's also something to be said about knowing "some" about a lot.

Harold Mansfield
11-10-2014, 07:50 PM
I will let you know when I have the website up and I get it to the front page of google. I am probably not even going to do that non-profit thing, but I will do this just to show you that I can.

Ok, now you're just embarrassing yourself.

EVERYONE on this forum would LOVE to see that. And before you try and pull it...everyone is on the first page for their name, and anyone can rank for gibberish terms that no one else is searching for.

Show us how easy it is to rank for a keyword or phrase that actually has some competition.
I can't wait.

Wozcreative
11-10-2014, 08:34 PM
Servers are free to me. So is PayPal.



Paypal is not free. It's "free" to setup an account, but not free to use it.

Also theres no such thing as being 1st on google... it happens only by "fluke".. google shows you results based on your location, your previous search history, your google+ account user details and much more. No two searches are alike. Looks like you're already being conned if you believe you'll be placed in the first spot of google for a search term.

It seems like you'll believe the "easy" solutions that are posted around the internet.... you'll listen to what you want to hear/read. If it looks easy, that's what you'll choose to believe.

Fulcrum
11-10-2014, 09:05 PM
"Jack of all trades, master of none." is one way to put it...

But there's also something to be said about knowing "some" about a lot.

Welcome to my world. Please keep your arms, legs, and head inside the vehicle at all times.

Over on the left we have those who don't know what they don't know. They keep trying but they can't figure out why they keep spinning their tires and the mud keeps getting higher.

On the right you'll notice that there are some people who act like they're trapped. Like those on the left, they thought they knew more than they did, but realized that they made a mistake, yet can't figure out how to get out of a prison of their own creation

If you look down you'll see the corpses of those who have drowned in their self proclaimed knowledge and abilities.

If you look up, you'll see memorials to those whose lives have tragically been lost.



With that said, there is nothing wrong with being a generalist - a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. More often than not, all small business owners fall into this category. What separates the men from the boys is how they use their knowledge and also knowing when they need to bring a specialist.

I've gone through a few of the other threads and I wonder if you may be misunderstanding us. At no time did we say that you can't do what you want to do. Rather we recommended that you may be better suited to bringing in the specialist (we based this information on our own experiences). We don't know you, your business, nor your capabilities so we can only keep to generalities.

RichardtheFrog
11-10-2014, 10:41 PM
Also the fact that I don't have or plan to have any business that would require me have some generic search term that I would need an SEO expert to get me to the top of google. And even if I did, I could just use social media sites because I know that will put me near the top.

"Advertising" rental properties means going on craigslist. And I've heard a lot of bad talk about craigslist on here, but I've used it many times. The scams are pretty easy to detect.

billbenson
11-10-2014, 11:59 PM
Things are different than others. Whether its investments, Websites including SEO or growing plants: it takes years to learn. You seem to feel you can learn these things in months not years.

RichardtheFrog
11-11-2014, 01:54 AM
Or maybe I have no need to learn. I know enough to get by with what I need to do for now. And I'm surprised you said "months" rather than "hours."

There's a point of learning what is useful to me or not.

Harold Mansfield
11-11-2014, 10:28 AM
Also the fact that I don't have or plan to have any business that would require me have some generic search term that I would need an SEO expert to get me to the top of google. And even if I did, I could just use social media sites because I know that will put me near the top.


525



Or maybe I have no need to learn. I know enough to get by with what I need to do for now.

Yep, there are a lot of things that you will have to learn and many of them you can learn just enough to get by. However, the ones you are talking about...Web Design, SEO, Property Management, and Running a Charity require you to know a little more than just enough to get by.

Look man, anyone can go online and get the basics in a matter of minutes. But if you want to be successful in whatever you do and actually make some money, you have to be good at something and not just talk a good game. Even if that means just being a good manager and hiring the right people.

But you are living in a fantasy land where you think you're going to learn everything, do everything, and that you're good at everything and you aren't. And you are going to continuously fall flat on your face...that is if you ever follow through on anything long enough to actually get anything started.

Or maybe you'll just be one of those people who are always talking about doing something, focus on one thing or another for a day or 2, and then realize that it's more work than you realized and abandon it and move on to the next thing...continuously looking for the easy one that you can do with no knowledge about anything and that doesn't require any hard work or commitment.

The only thing that makes me sad about reading all of this is that you aren't able to get a kick out of your threads and statements the way we are.

Wozcreative
11-11-2014, 11:15 AM
525


Or maybe you'll just be one of those people who are always talking about doing something, focus on one thing or another for a day or 2, and then realize that it's more work than you realized and abandon it and move on to the next thing...continuously looking for the easy one that you can do with no knowledge about anything and that doesn't require any hard work or commitment.


Ahhhh the dabbler.... those people that sit around wishing for things to happen and switch from idea to idea allllllllllllllll day long. :D :rolleyes: :cool:

I love the comments about not wanting to use Exel sheets, or not wanting to use SEO or abandoning the charity idea.... all that after you've fought with us that its the right way to go. All points to a dabbler. Someone that doesn't want to "invest" time or money in an idea is useless in the business world. Can't just throw in 5 minutes worth of youtube videos or $5 at something and say it's "enough".

Anyone who's successful in business knows that NOTHING! NOTHING is good enough!!! We stay awake night and day trying to improve it more and more. There's no such thing as "getting by" or "good enough".

Freelancier
11-11-2014, 12:06 PM
In several different threads, Richard wrote:

Even if you only make $150/month per house, that is still something.

I made a MS Excel spreadsheet with different variable such as purchase price, tax rate, mortgage duration, mortgage rate, expected rental per month, occupancy rate, estimated repairs, etc. and it tells me how much profit to expect per month. It seems that every single house comes out to about $200/month.

Every house on the market is a potential deal even if it just nets me $150/month.

Woz, Harold, ya'll keep missin' the point here. We don't wake up in the morning dreaming of earning $200 a month. We dream of earning that in an hour or less. When you aim low, you can't expect to buy Cadillacs.

Wozcreative
11-11-2014, 01:07 PM
In several different threads, Richard wrote:




Woz, Harold, ya'll keep missin' the point here. We don't wake up in the morning dreaming of earning $200 a month. We dream of earning that in an hour or less. When you aim low, you can't expect to buy Cadillacs.

I guess we're reaching too high :) He noted that he wanted to retire on his business.. I guess we don't know what he plans to have at retirement. At $200/month, i wouldn't even bother with a business. Welfare gives you more than that.

Harold Mansfield
11-11-2014, 01:25 PM
Woz, Harold, ya'll keep missin' the point here. We don't wake up in the morning dreaming of earning $200 a month. We dream of earning that in an hour or less. When you aim low, you can't expect to buy Cadillacs.

He also thinks that everyone else is over paid and nothing is worth spending money on, so how can he shoot any higher? He's said it plenty of times that he doesn't see the need to pay someone for their knowledge, time and expertise when he can do it all himself by skimming over a few articles on Google.

On many occasions he's said that his $5 website is just as good as the website's in our portfolios.

The kid has absolutely no concept of what things cost, what people get paid and why. No ability to differentiate from his own fantasies that he's made up, and reality. So of course $200 is good money to him. That's not aiming low to him. That's what he's psyched himself into believing is good enough. Just like everything else he does. The bare minimum is good enough.

billbenson
11-11-2014, 04:46 PM
Let me phrase this a little differently. You should be an expert in the things that make you money. Let's take the web stuff. I watched a friend loose thousands of dollars for an error. I said why didn't you call me...

On the same theme, the stuff you don't know may prevent you from coming up with ideas that will make you more money. There is a saying: 'You don't know what you don't know'. In about 2000 I started digging into web design. I'm not a web designer! I have a web site that makes me money. I wrote the original site. I'm a salesman. Have been for 30 plus years. But I can and did write a profitable website. I recently had a professional web designer redesign my site. Guess what? The professional built site has doubled my online sales.

I have been studying web marketing and some design since 2000. What it has allowed me to do is better manage my web designer as well as come up with ideas for the web as well as general sales that make me more money. I didn't research it for weeks or months, I research it every day. It's my livelihood.

When I first started, I could see the value of databases. Databases combined with scripts can do amazing things. All CMS's such as WordPress are database designed. I started studying databases and as a result can come up with ideas that can make me money because of my knowledge. Am I a programmer? NO. Do I understand what programming can do for me? YES.

Can you make money doing what you are doing? Maybe, probably?

But IMO you are trying to take the easy way out. You will also make less money in the long run by your approach. Ya, I built my first website. And it made money. But I didn't stop at the ebook or studying. Studying never stops.

I'll finish this this way. Be an expert on three things. You have mentioned mobile home rentals, investments, and web design on this thread. Strive to be an expert on each of these. Study them everyday until you die. If you don't make money on one or you find flaws in your analysis or the changes in the market or economy that affects your business, you have the skills to go to plan B. That could make you rich. Your plan may or may not work.

RichardtheFrog
11-11-2014, 08:09 PM
You assume that I've only put 5 minutes worth or research into something when I have put more.

And I said $200/month per home. I didn't say I was only going to buy one home, did I?

In fact, I'm pretty sure I said that I was going to sell them all after the mortgages were paid off.

Harold Mansfield
11-11-2014, 08:39 PM
You assume that I've only put 5 minutes worth or research into something when I have put more.


Well, you're only presenting 5 minutes worth of knowledge here and most of the time you're wrong. So what else are we to deduce when you keep sticking your foot in your mouth?

Look man, you're talking to people who ARE Property Owners, Web Professionals, Lawyers, Tax Professionals, and Own Properties who ARE MAKING MONEY, and instead of learning from them you're trying to pass off your own version of untested BS, and theory on them and telling them they don't know what they're talking about.

Why can't you see how laughable that is?

Freelancier
11-11-2014, 08:52 PM
And I said $200/month per home.Between money down and closing costs for a $150,000 home (that you won't live in, so you have to have at least 25% down and your interest rate will be about a point higher than normal home rates) is about $42,000 out-of-pocket at closing (and that's before all the repairs you'll have to make to make it rentable). To make $1200/year. So that's an annual return on your money of ... 3%. For a high risk investment. Wouldn't be worth my time and effort. I'm unimpressed with your plan.

RichardtheFrog
11-11-2014, 09:16 PM
All the more reason to go with mobile homes.

Harold Mansfield
11-11-2014, 09:23 PM
All the more reason to go with mobile homes.

All the more reason for you to get off of Google and actually learn the business first hand from experienced professionals, and get some experience so that you can make an informed decision of the best way to get started so that you don't lose your money and fall flat on your face.

RichardtheFrog
11-11-2014, 09:28 PM
You act like it's complicated.

The only difficult part is saving up for the down payment and other initial expenses.

Harold Mansfield
11-11-2014, 09:46 PM
You act like it's complicated.
The only difficult part is saving up for the down payment and other initial expenses.

Seriously, how old are you?

RichardtheFrog
11-11-2014, 09:48 PM
Are you honestly telling me that being a landlord is difficult? I know a 20 year old who does it as he plays computer games.

And because I don't desire money. I desire free time.

I would rather not spend my whole life earning money.

Fulcrum
11-11-2014, 10:47 PM
Are you honestly telling me that being a landlord is difficult? I know a 20 year old who does it as he plays computer games.

This guy's the exception, not the norm.


The only difficult part is saving up for the down payment and other initial expenses.

Though not easy, more often than not, this is one of the easier things you will do.


Screening tenants wisely would be a good bet.

Not would be, it is a good bet and even then you will get burned - it's just a matter of time.


There's a point of learning what is useful to me or not.

All learning is useful. Whether or not you need it right away is a different question.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - get out there and get started. Coming on here and arguing with us is only wasting our time, and worse, your time. Prove us wrong and show us that your $5 website will generate what you hope it will. Show us that you can do what you are telling us you can do. You're even welcome to use the advice we have given you if you choose.

Edit - poor grammer

RichardtheFrog
11-11-2014, 11:50 PM
You know you spelled grammar wrong, right?

billbenson
11-12-2014, 12:29 AM
I'm going to quote myself here:




Let me phrase this a little differently. You should be an expert in the things that make you money.

Richard, you are leading yourself into a path of failure. I bet all of us who have commented on this thread have failed at something. But we are also here because we have ultimately succeed. We really do want you to succeed.Be an expert at something. Not an amateur at a lot of stuff. And sorry, being an expert takes years, not weeks or months.

Harold Mansfield
11-12-2014, 12:37 AM
Are you honestly telling me that being a landlord is difficult? I know a 20 year old who does it as he plays computer games.
Yeah, and I know a 40 year old that does nothing but flip houses and makes money. He started out by being a carpenter, went into real estate, and then his parents died and left him a crap load of money which he used to start investing in properties with his wife who used to run a title company and his brother in law who is a plumber.

Someone elses story is not your story. How did that 20 year old start? Where did he get the money? Who did he learn from? What experience did he have before he went into it? Did you ever ask where does a 20 year old get the money to invest in real estate? If all he does is play video games, who is running the business? Managing the properties? Is that your reality? Probably not or you'd be doing it. All you know is 'he's doing it so it must be easy'.
You have a lot of convenient answers to talk yourself into believing that nothing is hard work. That doesn't make you very smart at all, and certainly not the characteristic of a successful business person.


And because I don't desire money. I desire free time.
Getting to that point takes hard work. You said it yourself you don't have any money, you're working a job that pays crap, and you have bad credit.
You already have a long way to go just to get even, let alone ahead.


I would rather not spend my whole life earning money.
Ha. Unless you hit the lottery, you will. It's not going to just come to you because you will it to and you know a bunch of people. You have to actually do something.

I agree with Fulcrum, you are wasting everyone's time. You are a lot of talk, but no action. You swear to high heaven that you have it all figured out and yet you haven't made one dime doing it. You're a dreamer. And you'll always be a dreamer until you start doing. I don't care how much you read, it's not the same thing as doing. Nothing goes according the plan on paper. Doing is how you learn to roll with the punches, put out fires, and make the kinds of day to day decisions that keep you from losing money, wasting money, getting ripped off, and moving forward.

Until you get that going and start building that real life business experience, you're will never know if anything you are saying will work the way you think it will from the couch. Right now it's all in your mind and you aren't being realistic at all.

But you're too full of yourself to take the advice we're trying to give you. You have some devastatingly hard lessons to learn kid.

I'm going to ask one more time because I'm genuinely curious, how old are you? I notice you keep dodging the question.

Wozcreative
11-12-2014, 12:50 AM
I'm going to ask one more time because I'm genuinely curious, how old are you? I notice you keep dodging the question.

I'm going to say 21 - 25. Old enough to know a bit of stuff, have credit (and mess it up) and young enough to still be a dreamer of things.

I was different at 21 though.. I had fantastic credit (I learned early on how important it was) because I worked a crappy $7.45/h job and all I could do was save for the things I needed for my career, I graduated college and bought property... The difference with me at that age was that I asked a lot of questions and trusted professionals to help me out.

Brian Altenhofel
11-12-2014, 02:03 AM
I'd guess 20 +/-7.

billbenson
11-12-2014, 03:11 AM
If that is the case, we were all young once. Not sure here though.

MarkPoppen
11-13-2014, 02:48 PM
If you think you can get the work done for $50, why haven't you hired anyone yet?


You know you spelled grammar wrong, right?

Pretty sure that's the joke..

TTS
11-13-2014, 10:29 PM
3% return on a stick built house is a poor investment so you would rather invest in a depreciating asset (mobile homes)? This thread keeps getting better.

Patrysha
11-14-2014, 06:13 PM
Wow! Your mobile homes down there are waaaaaay cheaper than any we have in our area...of course $150,000 wouldn't buy more than a shack here either...

You do realize that beyond the purchase price of any rental property you have there are maintenance costs and upgrades that you'll have to make over the 30 years you intend to own them...so there are ongoing investments beyond the original purchase. I mean unless you plan to be a slum-lord, which might be exactly what you intend to do according the logic I've seen in this thread thus far.