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Paul
08-31-2014, 08:03 PM
Does anyone have an opinion on this computer? My sister wants the Microsoft surface ( the cheapest version).

Owns a beauty shop and does constant online social media, facebook, twitter etc. Also needs to run quickbooks and keep a calander of appointments. Also updates her website on wix and does some light design work for flyers. I assume this computer is fine for this. She won't be doing any major graphics or gaming or anything else that requires too much. She just likes the lightweight smaller concept of this product so she can carry it easily.

It seems fine to me and i don't think she needs the "pro" version. I just want an opinion from some experts in case there are issues I wouldn't know or think about.

Thanks,
Paul

MyITGuy
08-31-2014, 10:23 PM
Go with the pro version, otherwise you will regret it (I.E. Quickbooks may not be in the MS App Store, which means your SOL on installing it along with many other applications)

Personally, I'd say go with the Surface Pro 3...better battery life, lighter and thinner and more flexibility on the kickstand.

Harold Mansfield
09-01-2014, 08:34 AM
Does anyone have an opinion on this computer? My sister wants the Microsoft surface ( the cheapest version).

Owns a beauty shop and does constant online social media, facebook, twitter etc. Also needs to run quickbooks and keep a calander of appointments. Also updates her website on wix and does some light design work for flyers. I assume this computer is fine for this. She won't be doing any major graphics or gaming or anything else that requires too much. She just likes the lightweight smaller concept of this product so she can carry it easily.

It seems fine to me and i don't think she needs the "pro" version. I just want an opinion from some experts in case there are issues I wouldn't know or think about.

Thanks,
Paul

The Surface 2 is not robust enough to use as a laptop replacement. It's a tablet. She needs a computer.
Surface 3 has the capability to run the things that you are talking about, however, I wouldn't buy a Surface 3 as my only computer. She's running a business. I'd get a laptop with the speed and storage that a business needs. You can probably get a decent Windows 8.1 laptop for less than the price of a Surface 3 Pro. If you forgo the touch screen, even cheaper.

Of course the cool factor of a Surface 3 is hard to resist, but it's not a practical decision to get one as your only business computer.
Just my opinion, of course.

Paul
09-01-2014, 09:47 AM
Thanks for the advice, it's exactly what I needed to know. I am going to lead her away from the surface to a more standard laptop.

It will be her only computer. She has been doing most of her social media and appointments on a samsung galaxy phone and borrows my comp for other stuff. She uses the samsung with the square to collect paymnts, which works great by the way.

Harold Mansfield
09-01-2014, 10:00 AM
It will be her only computer. She has been doing most of her social media and appointments on a samsung galaxy phone and borrows my comp for other stuff.
...She uses the samsung with the square to collect paymnts, which works great by the way.

That's pretty admirable actually, although brutal. But it does go to show that where there is a will there is a way. Use the tools that you have until you can do better. Everything doesn't have to be perfect...and all of those other seemingly cliche' things that we tell people when they are just starting out.

MyITGuy
09-01-2014, 12:52 PM
I wouldn't buy a Surface 3 as my only computer. She's running a business. I'd get a laptop with the speed and storage that a business needs.

I would have a different opinion...a Surface Pro 3 combined with the docking station is a perfect fit for a business user who may normally have purchased a laptop.

The speed/memory/space provided with the Pro 3's matches/exceeds most laptops you can find right now...but does come at a slightly higher cost due to portability/weight

Harold Mansfield
09-01-2014, 01:43 PM
I would have a different opinion...a Surface Pro 3 combined with the docking station is a perfect fit for a business user who may normally have purchased a laptop.
But as a first and only computer for a business owner? I guess if she's been running everything from a phone and borrowed computers it would definitely be better than that.


The speed/memory/space provided with the Pro 3's matches/exceeds most laptops you can find right now...but does come at a slightly higher cost due to portability/weight
If cost vs. specs is a concern, you can definitely get more computer for less money. Even at the lowest price point of $799 you're getting a 12" screen, 4GB RAM, and 64GB Hard Drive. You can get more RAM and definitely 10x's the storage for less with a laptop.

At the highest price point of $1549, you're getting 8GB RAM and 256 or 512 GB Hard Drive. You can get a desktop AND a 15" Laptop, each with at least 8GB RAM and at least 200+ GB Hard Drive on the Laptop and probably 500-700 GB Hard Drive on the Desktop, if not a TB.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Surface 3. And if that's what she wants then do it, but I still wouldn't have that as my only computer if I were running a business. A 12" screen and one USB port wouldn't do it for me. That would be my mobile computer. But it is better than the 5" screen she has been using.

But then again my work computer is a desktop with 3 monitors, so I can't fathom doing actual work on a tablet.

MyITGuy
09-02-2014, 09:03 AM
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Surface 3. And if that's what she wants then do it, but I still wouldn't have that as my only computer if I were running a business. A 12" screen and one USB port wouldn't do it for me. That would be my mobile computer. But it is better than the 5" screen she has been using.

Thats why you would combine it with a docking station - Multi-monitor setup, full size keyboard/mouse and support for multiple USB Devices. This makes it both your mobile, and full time workstation ;)

MyITGuy
09-02-2014, 09:11 AM
If cost vs. specs is a concern, you can definitely get more computer for less money. Even at the lowest price point of $799 you're getting a 12" screen, 4GB RAM, and 64GB Hard Drive. You can get more RAM and definitely 10x's the storage for less with a laptop.

At the highest price point of $1549, you're getting 8GB RAM and 256 or 512 GB Hard Drive. You can get a desktop AND a 15" Laptop, each with at least 8GB RAM and at least 200+ GB Hard Drive on the Laptop and probably 500-700 GB Hard Drive on the Desktop, if not a TB.

Cost of hardware will always be debatable. Can you find something cheaper, most likely. Should you buy that item that's cheaper, that's your personal preference when you compare reliability/flexibility vs. costs...but I wouldn't recommend it. (I.E. I don't see a bunch of business owners running around in Hyundai's....so I would hope they translate that quality/reliability to the technology that runs their business).

Harold Mansfield
09-02-2014, 09:40 AM
I'm only making these points if cost vs. value is an issue. And respectfully, you're speaking as a guy who probably has at least 2 other computers.
Could you run your business on a Surface 3 as your only device?

The Surface is cool, but it's not practical as your only business computer.
As far as flexibility goes, a tablet can't compare to a laptop, and it's not that much of a hardship to throw a laptop in a bag when you need to be mobile. We've been doing it for over a decade now.

Reliability is a good point. This is the first run of the Surface 3, the 4th run of the Surface overall as a device. None have been 100% yet. This is MS' first attempt to make a tablet sized device a laptop replacement. I have 3 tablets collecting dust right now that weren't quite ready to be the full featured device that they were sold as. This is new ground. Laptops are tried and true and you get more for your money. That may change in the next 2 years, but not today.

I'm not making an argument against the Surface 3. I love the thing. I'm thinking like a practical business owner who doesn't own any other computer. My opinion is get a computer. Not the hot new thing and hope that it's enough to run your business on. To me that's not thinking clearly. The Surface is cool, but it is limited. It's not a computer replacement device yet. It's a tablet that runs office and full Windows 8 that you need to buy more stuff for to make it come close to an actual computer and still not get there and spend twice the money for half the speed, a smaller screen, and 1/10th the storage.

By your own points you need to buy the Surface, buy a docking device, buy another monitor, and probably will need to buy additional storage. That's a lot of work and expense to try and make it a computer to run your business on, when you can just buy a laptop...or even a desktop.

That's all I'm saying. I love the device. I think it's cool as hell. I can't wait to get my hands on one.
But this isn't a MS commercial. Spent your money wisely and get something that you KNOW has everything you need, rather than simply wearing the highest heels because they look good and not being able to walk more than 5 steps, and you don't own any other shoes ( I mixed up analogies, but you get the picture).

MyITGuy
09-02-2014, 12:12 PM
I'm only making these points if cost vs. value is an issue. And respectfully, you're speaking as a guy who probably has at least 2 other computers.
Could you run your business on a Surface 3 as your only device?

Actually I only have 1 laptop (with a bunch of servers in the Data Center), which I paid just over $2,200 for last year (Dell Latitude E6540 Laptop with 8GB Memory, 256GB SSD Drive and Docking Station).

Yes, I could run my business on a Surface 3 as my only device, and could do so for less than/equal to a comparable business line laptop. In fact I just bought 5 surfaces, 3 of which went to executive/owners and they love them (1 had a desktop, another had a laptop and ipad and complained about battery life/switching devices on long flights, the 3rd had a laptop and small asus tablet).

Buying the Surface Pro 3's will save anywhere from $200 to $600 over the laptop configuration quoted above depending on if you need an external monitor/keyboard/mouse, need multiple monitors and/or extended warranty.

Harold Mansfield
09-02-2014, 12:20 PM
Buying the Surface Pro 3's will save anywhere from $200 to $600 over the laptop configuration quoted above depending on if you need an external monitor/keyboard/mouse, need multiple monitors and/or extended warranty.

How do you figure that when the base price for a Surface with 4G RAM, (1) i3 processor and 64GB Hard Drive is $799? I got a quad core (yes, faster than a Surface) laptop last year with 8G RAM, and 500GB Hard Drive for $350 and upgraded the ram to 16GB for another $150. Far more computer than a Surface for $300 less. Toss in an external 2TB Hard Drive for $100 and I still have 5x's the computer than a Surface alone for less.
And anyone can do the same or find similar deals.

You got a $2k computer because that's what you needed, or just wanted. But most people don't need that much laptop to run a non technical business.

Surface is a fine machine, but your paying for the size.

You buy a Surface because you just want a Surface. But it is not better than or cheaper than buying a decent laptop. It's definitely cooler, but spec wise it's not even close. Surface is still a tablet that runs Windows. It is not a full fledged computer I don't care how MS markets it on the commercials. Is it better than a lot of tablets? Definitely. Is it the best Windows tablet to date? You betcha. Is it the same as a laptop computer? No freakin way.

Apples and Oranges.

Personally, I want one, but there is no way I could run my entire business on a 12" screen, 1 USB port, and 4G RAM with no storage. I could manage a few things well, probably. But I could never run my entire business from it, and it alone. It would be a nice compliment to what I already have, but not as the only computer in the office.

MyITGuy
09-02-2014, 02:50 PM
How do you figure that when the base price for a Surface with 4G RAM
Note the comment I made: "Buying the Surface Pro 3's will save anywhere from $200 to $600 over the laptop configuration quoted above"

Like I stated earlier, everyone has their opinion on pricing...but that laptop you purchased is likely not business grade and doesn't have the warranty to back it up. In fact, by upgrading the RAM as you stated you already likely voided your warranty and isn't something that your average business owner/user would know/willingly do.


Surface is a fine machine, but your paying for the size. Agreed, and I've stated this several times...but the price difference is not as big as you make it out to be once you start comparing similar equipment.


Is it the same as a laptop computer? No freakin way.
Then tell me, what are the differences?


Personally, I want one, but there is no way I could run my entire business on a 12" screen, 1 USB port, and 4G RAM with no storage. I could manage a few things well, probably. But I could never run my entire business from it, and it alone. It would be a nice compliment to what I already have, but not as the only computer in the office.
Do you understand what a docking station is?

I would not expect any user to run 24/7 from a laptop, which is the whole purpose of a dock....you get full size monitors/keyboards and mice and the extra ports you need. This is also a function that you get with other "business grade" laptops.

Additionally, your comparing the low end model of a Surface Pro to a consumer grade model that you purchased/upgraded yourself...if you really want to compare apples to apples, then start quoting specifics on business grade laptops/accessories (I.E. Dell Latitudes, IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads and HP Pro/Elite pads).

Harold Mansfield
09-02-2014, 03:36 PM
"Business class"? Really? That's our bar now? According to who?
There is no way that you don't get my point and I really think you are having a different discussion than the one I am.

I'm not arguing the merits of the Surface Pro. I think it's a fine device.

I'm speaking to what is a more practical purchase for a new business owner's first and only computer which she will depend on daily to run her business.

Having been in that situation before (and you should remember it too) where you can't afford to take chances and buy something that will not be flexible enough to do what you need it to do for a while because you cant just go out and buy something else... I'm saying you can get more laptop for your money without having to buy additional accessories. I don't even know why that part is a discussion.

The Surface is $799 to $1599. There is no way that you're going to tell me that anyone can't get a very nice laptop with more bells and whistles, speed and memory for that price..from HP, Dell, whoever you like.

Can you buy an upgraded Surface for say $1299, Docking Station for $199 and work with it as your only computer with only 128 GB Hard Drive? Some people may be able to. But is it the practical choice?

Most business owners need more storage than that for other programs besides office, contacts, documents, images, and so on. So now you're spending $799+ for the device, $199 for the docking station, if a 12" screen isn't enough now you're buying a second monitor, and probably more storage just to make this thing perform like a laptop. Why not just buy a laptop?

So No. That is not the advice I'd give to a start up who is short on funds.

And that's all I'm saying here. I'm not bagging on the device. But it's not a laptop and stop trying to tell me it's just as good, just as fast, and has more memory than one. It's not. You have to buy add ons to even get close.
It may be the best tablet out there. But it is not a laptop.

After 4 tries, Surface , Surface 2, Surface RT, and now Surface Pro 3, this is the first one of this class, but it's still not there yet as the only business computer that you need, and I certainly wouldn't tell a new business owner that it is just because I personally like it for me.

MyITGuy
09-02-2014, 06:19 PM
"Business class"? Really? That's our bar now? According to who?
According to the hundreds of thousands of users who are out there buying them for that specific purpose.

If you want to make sure we're on the same page, then throw out some makes/models that you want to use as examples rather than the hypothetical scenarios you keep on mentioning.


I'm speaking to what is a more practical purchase for a new business owner's first and only computer which she will depend on daily to run her business.

Having been in that situation before (and you should remember it too) where you can't afford to take chances and buy something that will not be flexible enough to do what you need it to do for a while because you cant just go out and buy something else... I'm saying you can get more laptop for your money without having to buy additional accessories.
That's even more reason to do research, and buy the right device the first time. Can you buy a consumer grade laptop and get more speed/memory and hard drive space, absolutely! To expect a business user to use this device 8+ hours a day would be absurd and that's where a device such as the Surface 3 with accessories, or any other business grade laptop that supports a docking station would be more appropriate.


The Surface is $799 to $1599. There is no way that you're going to tell me that anyone can't get a very nice laptop with more bells and whistles, speed and memory for that price..from HP, Dell, whoever you like.
Again, I'm not disputing that and have said the same thing myself...but like I've said previously the price difference isn't going to be as huge as you make it out to be unless you're looking at consumer grade equipment.


Can you buy an upgraded Surface for say $1299, Docking Station for $199 and work with it as your only computer with only 128 GB Hard Drive?
Considering this particular user has been working from a phone this entire time, I'd say so.
For others I would strongly suggest upgrading to the 256GB Hard Drive


Most business owners need more storage than that for other programs besides office, contacts, documents, images, and so on.
Thats a pretty generalized statement, and in my experience I haven't ran into an owner who needed that much space unless they were a developer, professional photographer or were into music/video production.


Some people may be able to. But is it the practical choice?
This is up to the person making the purchase.

Are you going to be using the device infrequently (Less than an hour or two each day) - Go with the cheaper consumer grade laptop
Do you have funds on hand to purchase a replacement when the consumer grade warranty (90 - 365 days) expires - Go with the cheaper consumer grade laptop
Do you not give a damn about your health/workspace ergonomics and are OK with working on a laptop all day - Go with the cheaper consumer grade laptop
Do you not care where your files are stored, or OK with trying trying to keep multiple PC's in sync - Then go with the cheaper consumer grade laptop/desktop combo

If you answered no to any of the questions above, then do yourself a favor and buy a business grade laptop (or Surface Pro3), docking station, keyboard, mouse, monitor(s) to make it easier on you for the long run.

But what do I know, I just do this for a living...

Harold Mansfield
09-02-2014, 07:59 PM
I know your name is "My IT Guy" but the way you are trying to make the case for a tablet over a computer as the only computer one needs to run their business with is just crazy.

I'd also be really interested in how many people on this forum purchase business specific computers, or as you put it "consumer grade". I buy good deals. That doesn't mean I buy cheap computers. Granted the last laptop I purchased was cheap because it was a discontinued model, but I also only needed it for 2 weeks. It still works just fine and is under warranty for 3 more years. No problem.

On the one hand you're making the case for business specific computers, on the other you're saying that a tablet is all the computer you need just because this one is "Business class". Yeah, so was the last one. It's still a tablet. Maybe that's what all computers will be one day, but that day is not today.

I think one thing we can agree on is neither of us have enough information about what the person the OP is speaking of wants or needs, or even what profession they are in to even be able to make the proper suggestion.

I will concede that if all you need to do is email, update your social media, manage contacts and use the occasional basic Outlook, and Word Office Software you could do just fine with a Surface or any other newer Windows tablet or convertible. But I'd be hard pressed to believe that a Graphic Designer can use it as their sole computer just because it can run Photoshop. Just because it can, doesn't mean it's a productive work environment to get stuff done efficiently.

The Motorola Flip phone could get and send emails, but it was a HORRIBLE experience.

If she is a developer, photographer, event planner or any of the the professions that require more speed, power, canvas to work on, and storage than that, I'd say get the best tool for the job, not merely the coolest and have to buy a bunch of additional accessories just to get the functionality that you need.

But that's just me. I love cool stuff. I got a shelves full of what was the latest thing at the time, but I'm also practical with what I depend on for my business and have learned the lesson of not being so the hard way. So I make recommendations based on that. Not what I can do, what the average person will be able to do based on their needs. We are obviously not talking about someone who is tech savvy and has all the latest toys. If she were, I'd be cheering the Surface as the best option too.

This year when I go home for the holidays, I will probably take a Surface and leave the laptop at home. But there is NO WAY that I could run my business on it no matter how many accessories I have to buy for it, so I'm not going to tell someone else that it's the greatest thing since the Zune when I know what it's limitations are for my own use.

I understand your points, but I don't think you are taking the situation of the OP under consideration. You just seemed focused on proving that this is your best and only solution that she should get.



Do you not give a damn about your health/workspace ergonomics and are OK with working on a laptop all day

You really lost me here. I had no idea the Surface was so advanced that it improved work space ergonomics and that working on a laptop was such an uncomfortable hardship. I personally don't work on one, but I can't see the ergonomic difference between a laptop, and a tablet on a kick stand that mimics a laptop. So maybe I am just a dumb consumer user. I gotta tell you, if that was a line from a salesman, I'd walk out of the store.

MyITGuy
09-02-2014, 10:28 PM
I know your name is "My IT Guy" but the way you are trying to make the case for a tablet over a computer as the only computer one needs to run their business with is just crazy.
Then let me break it down for you real slowly....

The title of this thread is "Microsoft Surface 2" and the OP clearly stated the requirements in their first post with "My sister wants the Microsoft surface", "Owns a beauty shop and does constant online social media, facebook, twitter etc." and "She won't be doing any major graphics or gaming or anything else that requires too much. She just likes the lightweight smaller concept of this product so she can carry it easily."

Based on this information, the Surface is a perfect fit, albeit a different model would be more appropriate based on the information I provided.

After this information was provided, you then tried to make a case for a laptop purchase based solely on price alone stating that the Surface Pro 3 was a substandard product not intended for business use and etc...which caused several long winded posts by both of us.

In the end, the choice is up to the buyer and I will repeat everything I've said, sometimes multiple times:
You want cheap, go with a consumer grade laptop (Good CPU/Memory/Hard Drive specifications, but limited warranty/support and no-name components)
You want something reliable/flexible, then go with a business grade Laptop or Tablet, however you will find that the tablet will likely be more attractive considering weight/battery life and flexibility. You also get business grade options such as the docking station, extended warranty up to 5 years, better options for support/warranties and likely better screen resolutions and increased battery life.


I think one thing we can agree on is neither of us have enough information about what the person the OP is speaking of wants or needs, or even what profession they are in to even be able to make the proper suggestion.
I would disagree and suggest you reread the OP and not skim over it like you seem to be doing.


But I'd be hard pressed to believe that a Graphic Designer can use it as their sole computer just because it can run Photoshop. Just because it can, doesn't mean it's a productive work environment to get stuff done efficiently.Agreed, the Surface does not include a dedicated graphics card, and as such this is one of the rare circumstances where a surface would not be recommended. However, the OP has not stated they are a graphic designer, nor have they mentioned anything regarding Photoshop...so my recommendation stands.


But there is NO WAY that I could run my business on it no matter how many accessories I have to buy for it
Out of curiosity, why do you think that you couldn't run your business on a Surface?


You really lost me here. I had no idea the Surface was so advanced that it improved work space ergonomics and that working on a laptop was such an uncomfortable hardship. I personally don't work on one, but I can't see the ergonomic difference between a laptop, and a tablet on a kick stand that mimics a laptop. So maybe I am just a dumb consumer user. I gotta tell you, if that was a line from a salesman, I'd walk out of the store.
:Sigh: It's pretty simple actually...
Consumer Grade Laptop - You end up working with the laptop in your lap as the name implies, or sometimes on a table/desk. This is not the best configuration for ergonomics and can impact your health. Low lighting (Based on the areas you will likely place a laptop, in you rlap) causes eye strain, positioning of the laptop can cause back/neck problems, in addition to wrist injuries such as carpel tunnel syndrome and etc...

A Business Grade Laptop/Tablet will presents these same issues, however most offer an accessory known as a Docking Station which allows to use the device exactly like a Desktop, while still providing you the flexibility to use the device in your lap and table for those short period of times that they are absolutely needed. When you plug the laptop into the docking station you gain access to your external monitor(s), keyboard, mouse and other peripherals that are likely setup in an office type setting that hopefully eliminates the risks/items above.

Harold Mansfield
09-02-2014, 10:50 PM
Yes, I'm skimming now because I'm tired of going back and forth over this and now I'm getting sarcastic just to keep myself entertained.

You left out this part..and only concentrated on part of the information.

...Also needs to run quickbooks and keep a calander of appointments. Also updates her website on wix and does some light design work for flyers.
I see this and I see someone who needs storage for her marketing materials, probably runs more software than quickbooks and office, probably will want to work with multiple windows open when designing and updating her website, and as business grows...being that she's a do it yourselfer, will probably very quickly be doing even more of her own design work and probably move from a free flash based website and want to run it herself.

So how long will a tablet actually be just enough computer for her? A few months? Once the novelty wears out and she needs to do more for her business, then what?

Your literal interpretation of things like using a laptop on your lap gives me a headache.

You end up working with the laptop in your lap as the name implies, or sometimes on a table/desk. This is not the best configuration for ergonomics and can impact your health. Low lighting (Based on the areas you will likely place a laptop, in you rlap) causes eye strain, positioning of the laptop can cause back/neck problems, in addition to wrist injuries such as carpel tunnel syndrome and etc...
So the solution to that is a smaller device on a kickstand? And no one has the intelligence to place a laptop in a comfortable work space, or on a desk, so that's why a tablet is better. Because it makes you smarter with feng shui. Oh how did we ever live before May 2014 without all becoming blind hunchbacks with crippling carpel tunnel?

I'm honestly tired of going in circles over it. You have your opinion based on what her stated needs are and I have mine.
I think between the back and forth she has more than enough to weigh the pros and cons and make a decision.

This is one of those times where I just give up and say get the damn tablet, and have fun. Like I keep saying, I love the new Surface and have no problems with it for me personally and what I want to use it for.

As for why I can't run my business from a tablet? That's really simple. I need more functionality on a daily basis than a tablet, docking station or not, can provide. It's not the right solution as an only computer for me and my needs. To me a tablet or laptop are for light work. Easy tasks. Mobility. Or something you use in a pinch.

I love my 32GB RAM, wireless keyboard and trackball, Dolby 5.1 speakers ( since I write a music blog and have to listen to music daily), and 3 monitors.
That's how I like to work. It's fast, it's efficient, and I can multitask without having to close and switch around windows or squeeze them so tight that I (or people on a video conference with me) can barely see them. I don't have time to mess around with cute. I need function.

I spend 8-10 hours a day at my desk , on my computer, and that's how I like to work. Fast. No waiting. Big canvas. Easy access to everything. My computer isn't some thing that I use to do paper work, and send emails. My computer(s) is my business. 100% of what I do, I do on them.

I can't do that on a tablet, which means I spend longer doing things which makes me irritated, that lowers productivity, and that makes me less money.

That should be easy to understand.

billbenson
09-03-2014, 12:29 AM
I'll just make one comment. I recently bought my first laptop. My wife has had a similar one for some time. It's a MSI gaming computer. I bought a wireless keyboard and mouse for it and hook it into a second htmi port on a TV I use as a monitor. I like the configuration. It has 16 G of ram and a great screen if you take it on the road. May be overkill for now, but the way pc's are going, things require more and more memory etc. It will probably have a longer functional lifespan.

It's to big for a road warrior, but for the occasional times I travel I'd highly recommend the configuration and pc.

MyITGuy
09-03-2014, 07:29 PM
You left out this part..and only concentrated on part of the information.
"...Also needs to run quickbooks and keep a calander of appointments. Also updates her website on wix and does some light design work for flyers."

What value does that add to the requirements/specifications? A whopping 2.5GB in storage...big deal


So how long will a tablet actually be just enough computer for her? A few months? Once the novelty wears out and she needs to do more for her business, then what?
Do what I've been suggesting all along, get a dock.


So the solution to that is a smaller device on a kickstand?
Get a dock...damn I'm on repeat here. Its a mobile device for when you need it, and a desktop/full size devices for when you need something more.


As for why I can't run my business from a tablet? That's really simple. I need more functionality on a daily basis than a tablet, docking station or not, can provide. It's not the right solution as an only computer for me and my needs.

I love my 32GB RAM, wireless keyboard and trackball, Dolby 5.1 speakers ( since I write a music blog and have to listen to music daily), and 3 monitors.
That's how I like to work. It's fast, it's efficient, and I can multitask without having to close and switch around windows or squeeze them so tight that I (or people on a video conference with me) can barely see them. I don't have time to mess around with cute. I need function.

I spend 8-10 hours a day at my desk , on my computer, and that's how I like to work. Fast. No waiting. Big canvas. Easy access to everything. My computer isn't some thing that I use to do paper work, and send emails. My computer(s) is my business. 100% of what I do, I do on them.

I can't do that on a tablet, which means I spend longer doing things which makes me irritated, that lowers productivity, and that makes me less money.

Out of all that, the only thing preventing you from using a laptop/surface with a dock, is the 32GB RAM, and I'd probably bet your not even close to using 1/4 of that...however if that is the case then a surface wouldn't be right for you...but I bet a laptop would still be able to meet all your needs.


To me a tablet or laptop are for light work. Easy tasks. Mobility. Or something you use in a pinch.

Then that's your thought process, however that is and no longer has been the case for the last several years. Everything you've stated could be done with a laptop/surface and a dock. Maybe a visual would help here...attached is a picture of my old office configuration which is powered by a laptop, and will soon be powered by a surface. I'm heavy user (Development, Graphics, some minor video editing, Testing several applications on VM's running on my laptop and etc...) and never had an issue/complaint.

495
Note: In the attached picture I'm running dual 23" monitors, have multiple USB Devices (Keyboard, Mouse and Thumb/USB Drives as Needed), connectivity to the network at 1GB and access to the printer/scanner/fax. What isn't shown is a speaker configuration I added at a later date....all this powered by a laptop that will eventually be replaced by a surface.

Harold Mansfield
09-03-2014, 07:52 PM
Dude, you seriously can't be this obstinate.

What she wants to do with it matters because it speaks to how she needs to use the thing. Work space. Efficiency. Ease of use. You are so focused on trying to prove that a Surface is enough computer for everyone that you aren't even considering that other people have different needs for function than you. A larger work space. Different multitasking capabilities that require multiple windows and programs open at once. You're not even trying to consider how other people work to do their jobs at all. You're just laser focused that I'm wrong and that there is no way that anyone else may want more than what the Surface offers without having to buy a dock or additional accessories to get that functionality.

The thing JUST CAME OUT and all of a sudden you're trying to prove it's the holy grail and all anyone needs regardless of what they do. You're so focused on the specs that you aren't considering anything else.

Now you're just going off the deep end and telling me that I don't need the tools that I have, even though you know NOTHING about my day to day operations, are totally discounting how I like to work and the tools that I like using, and what kind of functionality I need.

This isn't my fist merry go round MyITGuy. I didn't just stumble into Entrepreneurship off the boat, just grab the first computer on the Best Buy shelf and have never owned any other computers or tablets ever in the last 10 years.

I don't want my crap spread around multiple thumb drives. I don't want to gerry rig a 8G Ram Tablet on a docking station to run 3 monitors. I don't want to work like that. I know where 8G RAM starts acting up with the tools that I use. I've already been down that road. I like my set up. I like my video card. I like my sound card. I like my drives. Why would I want to patch together sh*t, and burn a hot tablet or laptop 8-10 hours a day, when the complete solution that I need and want exists?

Your laptop set up is what I used to have in the bedroom 2 years ago. My other laptop is part of my Living room Entertainment center which already has 2 other web devices and browsers on it. There are 3 tablets on my coffee table right now and 2 desktop set ups on the shelf in my office that I don't even need anymore. And that's just the things that people see. Back up power, back up storage, relays, and so on and so on. I'm not an idiot. I know how computers work and buy them frequently. Many times just because I want it.

Do you know how many times you've asked me if I know what a docking station is? I have 4 of them for phones, tablets, and laptops.
You don't think I've investigated, tried, and tested the best way to do things over the years to get here?

Nothing about creating a work space, office, or computers is one sized fits all and everyone likes using the same thing and working on the same sized equipment. How are you not getting that?

But I don't need to prove that to you and I don't understand why you have now moved on to second guessing me and my business.

Good for you and your laptop set up. I'm glad it works for you. A similar set up worked for me 2 years ago when I had two work areas, but I've outgrown it now.

It's not for everyone and every need just because it works for you.

Harold Mansfield
09-03-2014, 09:08 PM
By the way, since we're whipping them out...


http://haroldmansfield.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/desk2.jpg

And I like it that way. And it takes up far less space than most people's entire desk.
I have far more capability that I can access and execute quickly than most 2 person teams with a secretary.

It's fast. It's reliable. I have a huge work canvas which I need.

I can multi-task my ass off while on a video conference call and never skip a beat, or have to move the content that we're working on from the broadcast screen, and can make adjustments and fixes on the fly before the other team members can even get logged into the right page...because they're all working on cute little 4G-8G laptops and have to move things around and make windows smaller to do 2 things at once, or they don't have enough power to stream live video AND run Photoshop without their Mac book freezing up or their VOIP line dropping out.

I charge by the hour. Those hours need to be seamless and professional. I can't have freezes, sound drops, glitches, jumps and lags and all the other crappy quality things that happen when you aren't using the best tools for the job.

I'm not running that off of a Surface or a Laptop. Been there, done that. Not good enough. Not fast enough. I have a graveyard of old network configurations over the years. You give me a CRT TV, an old tablet, and an XP netbook and I'll build you a network. I know how things work and what is available and possible. I also know what each ones limitations are. And they all have limitations, even mine.

So when I say I can't do what I need on a laptop or tablet docking station with monitors attached to it, I know what I'm talking about. I may not be an IT guy, but I know trying to run 3 monitors on 8G's (or even 16G's) of RAM is not the best tool for the job. Of course technically it will work, but the performance will be crap in a pinch.

If you were my tech adviser or consultant I would hope that you would ask more questions about my needs and wants before insisting that I buy something just because it's your personal favorite.

And you call me 'consumer level '? That's a total consumer level move.

And I'll end it on that.

MyITGuy
09-03-2014, 11:20 PM
tl;dr - I'm leaving it at that ;)

Paul
09-05-2014, 12:28 AM
Hi...we did not get the surface. Instead we purchased a Lenova G50.

It seems to have more than enough for her use and it was on sale at Best Buy for $ 350. We added Microsoft office for $ 140 and will use the online version of QuickBooks. She actually now prefers the large screen and bigger laptop to the somewhat dainty surface. This will be her workhorse and only computer.
I hope I didn't make a mistake but i think its fine for her.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

Lenovo G50 15.6" Laptop AMD A6Series 4GB Memory 1TB Hard Drive LENOVO G50 - 80E3007FUS - Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-g50-15-6-laptop-amd-a6-series-4gb-memory-1tb-hard-drive-black/7046195.p?id=1219248584104&skuId=7046195&st=lenova&cp=1&lp=11)

Paul
09-05-2014, 01:06 AM
Harold, I know you and others appreciate bootstrap entrepreneurship and marketing, so I’m going to bore you and others a little with this story. It’s about my sister in law, the one that just got her first computer.

She is a highly trained Sassoon trained hair colorist who had been very successful. Unfortunately, within the last 5 years she had some terrible setbacks in her life including major medical issues that completely wiped her out financially and knocked her out of the business for years. I won’t go into the detailed drama and trauma but it was devastating, driving her into severe depression and resulted in losing everything.; no home, no car, no money, literally nothing but a cheap call phone. Fortunately she had a few sisters that let her stay on sofas or spare rooms so she wasn’t on the “street”.

In spite of her experience she couldn’t get a decent position in a local salon because they hire based on your following. They don’t feed you clients and they don’t actually pay you. They just rent you space or split the revenue that you bring in. It was a problem because she had lost all her clients so no salon had any interest.

This isn’t meant to be a sob story, quite the opposite. I only mention her situation as background. It’s really about how she used social media and some persistence to get her business going.

To start she moved in with me and my wife and I loaned her a car. Another sister got her a Galaxy phone to use for her social media and communications. She was able to negotiate use of a chair in a small salon in return for doing some chores, cleaning the salon, doing the laundry etc.

Here’s what she did.

1) She joined an active local online woman’s forum on facebook. She started interacting and “blogging” about hair maintenance. She couldn’t really pitch anything BUT she became the hair “expert” on the forum. She spent hours and hours answering all the different questions the women asked. She got a few clients here and there, but not many.

2) She built herself a basic little website on Wix, made a LinkedIn profile and got herself an email address and some business cards.

3) She then went around to all the local community organizations, firehouse, library, schools etc. to donate gift certificates for her services for their charity auctions. She also did some freebies for “deserving women” such as female volunteer firefighters.

4) After some time on the forum a commercial web site, “Hamlet Hub”, (does community based webs) saw her posts on the forum and asked her to do a regular weekly blog for them. In return they gave her free advertising. She jumped on that opportunity and gave the girl editor a free expensive hair service.

5) On that site she was able to advertise, so she started offered discounted specials. This is where things started to happen. The editor in charge, a 26 yr old girl, gave her a big endorsement and even posted her own before and after pics.

6) Between the original forum, the “Hamlet Hub” site and the bit of notoriety she got from her charity auction strategy she created a little buzz and the phone started ringing! That started about three or four months after she started on the original local forum.

7) She accommodated EVERY single customer no matter what she had to do, early mornings, evenings, Sundays and last minute requests. She’d get a request on her phone and bam she’d run to the car and race to the salon to do it.

8) In the mean time, a national hair care magazine saw her blogs on the “Hamlet Hub” and asked her to do an article for them. They published her first short article and now have asked for more. To be published or quoted in a national magazine is a BIG deal in that business!

Her business has gone from literally 0 to about $ 2,000 a week in about 6 or 7 months and it keeps growing from referrals and repeat business. She feels she can max out at about $ 5,000 a week. She’s diligently saving for a car and her own apartment.

Sorry for the long post but I thought it was a nice example of how social media , along with some perseverance, can work.

Harold Mansfield
09-05-2014, 01:20 AM
It is. It's an awesome story! I'm glad things are starting to work out for her, she deserves it and she definitely put in the work.