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View Full Version : strange human nature identified!



huggytree
03-20-2009, 08:28 PM
ive been getting tons of faucet replacement jobs lately...people cant afford a kitchen/bath remodel, so their settling for a face lift...

every single one says how crappy their old faucet was...parts broken off underneith....what do they buy? the cheapest / crappiest faucet they can get...with the cheapest drains and parts underneith....what will happen in 5 years....they will break again and have something to complain about again...

wouldnt they learn?...i always buy the best i can afford...some of this stuff was $40($100 buys you a great basic faucet)...they can afford better...

and they pay me hundreds to install it...why not get a quality faucet which will last 20 years....its painful to me to install such garbage...my call back rate will probably go up if i keep installing these...they are hard to install because they fall apart while putting them together.

i often see people who buy the best plumbing fixtures and choose the cheapest plumber they can to install it....i also find that strange...they see the value in the product, but not the install

lately its the opposite...they see the value in the install, but not the product

both concepts are strange to me!

is it a human nature thing?

vangogh
03-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Some people are just that way. I'm with you. I always buy the most quality I can afford and you're right it does end up costing less over time.

What's interesting is that people do buy based on value and not price (maybe during economic times like the one we're in it's a little different) which would indicate the people you're dealing with lately don't see the value in having the better faucet. It is possible it's just the current economic situation and everyone is cutting back on spending.

Still there are some people who always go for the cheapest. I've known quite a few friends and family members who were like that. Most ended up having to replace what they bought again and again, but still never saw the value in buying better quality.

Out of curiosity do you explain how the better faucets will last much longer and over the long haul save them money?

thx4yrtym
03-21-2009, 08:38 AM
Huggy,

Do you see any difference in attitude varying by age? I find that as I get older I much less willing to settle for something. I tend to wait until I can get just what I want. Not always the most expensive, just what I really want.

Curious,

huggytree
03-21-2009, 08:53 AM
they already purchased the faucet from Home Depot before they call me...so explaining why its no good would only be insulting to them...i dont say a word while they complain...in my head im thinking 'what a piece of crap'

i just had a customer who was going to buy from HD and i warned him...he went to one of my supply house showrooms and walked out because he couldnt afford it...i explained to him they have basic faucets too....he went to HD and bought who knows what (im going there next week)....i explained to him that if something is missing or doesnt work or leaks it will cost him $150-200 to fix...which is more than he saved...they all roll the dice on that one...when the lose they are angry with me for charging them to repair or come back for a service call....i hope they are also mad at themselves.

Every product HD sells is a special version made just for HD..it is not the same part i supply....they sell the same high end toilet for less than i can buy them for...look inside the tank...different parts...also i suspect its made in a Mexico plant vs a USA plant...they have finish flaws more than mine.

i know age gives many people more money and more experience...so it would be the case that older people would go for value of product & installation. all these customers im talking about are middle aged...i rarely do plumbing for people under 35-40...most of my customers are in their 50-60's and have above average income...the people im talking about this week were all average income.

Spider
03-21-2009, 11:04 AM
You could refuse install-only jobs. You could refuse to purchase and install what you consider to be poor quality items.

It's *your* reputation you are gambling with, and - as you have already noted - the client sees it as *your* fault if there is need for a call-back.

I think you are playing in a game that does not serve you. Leave these type of customers for the other plumbers. In fact, I used to recommend my competitors to clients I did not want to deal with. "I'm not going to let you screw up my business - go screw up XYZ's business!" Of course, I didn't say that in so many words but they quickly got the message.

Patrysha
03-21-2009, 11:30 AM
Another thing too that you might consider is that some of these clients really are trying to buy the best they can afford...it just may not be much.

For instance, my husband recently has fixed our water heater and cartridges/seals in a couple of our faucets. All are getting close to their last legs and getting near the point where they should be replaced, but we just don't have the funds to do it...not that we don't want to, but unless I find a local plumber who was willing to trade for my marketing services it just isn't going to happen this spring.

It's not a matter of not seeing the value in a plumber - we know the repairs won't last long - but it's a better option that trying to squeeze more from our budget.

vangogh
03-21-2009, 02:28 PM
It's not a matter of not seeing the value in a plumber

I think that depends on the person. Some won't see the value in the sense of assuming all plumbers are equally qualified and that a faucet is a faucet. But I think you're right that much of what huggy is seeing can be explained by the current economy. If you don't have the money, you don't have the money.

Unlike some other purchases which you can wait on, plumbing usually needs to be fixed sooner rather than later. That may be leading some to just buy what they can for now with the idea that they'll go for more quality the next time. And if you plan on getting something better a year from now when you think you can afford it, you might go for whatever is cheapest now since you plan on replacing it anyway.

thx4yrtym
03-21-2009, 03:25 PM
Given the current economy and IF you can handle it financially, one option for some is to finance part of the job . The home improvement contractor that I've talked about in the past doing mailing with my software, he would offer to carry a part of the job for the right people. That got him quite a few jobs . He would always have monthly income coming in from 10-15 jobs. He liked the way that income evened out the good months with the bad ones. Granted his jobs were for more money than what Huggy is often doing but it sometimes makes the deal.
Anything you can do to distinguish yourself from the competition is a good thing. I realize there is some risk with what I'm proposing however there can be benefits.

Regards,

huggytree
03-21-2009, 07:55 PM
i would LOVE to tell people i only install products i supply...its MY DREAM!

Someday when i get busier it may be smart to switch to that instead of hiring someone else....i like using quality fixtures and i like being in control of the process of selecting it. My customers are happy when i recommend a product because I know it will work and guarantee it will work for them (often its something i have in my house).

right now its suicide to turn down anyone willing to pay my price. I find myself doing more & more small projects and learing some service/repair..its keeping me afloat.

I think I will keep the idea of adding 'all fixtures supplied by Waukesha Plumbing' into my contract someday when i am working steady.

Steve B
03-22-2009, 06:03 AM
I agree with Spider. But, I would just refuse to install poor quality products. It's a subtle, but important distinction. If you go all the way to just installing what you supply - people will believe you are ripping them off on the price of the fixutures. You should allow them to shop around - perhaps giving them a list of your "approved" fixtures. They will probably end up buying them from you anyway for the conveniance - but, at least they won't feel trapped.

huggytree
03-22-2009, 10:12 AM
the problem with fixtures is they cant shop around....Home Depot, Menards, Lowes all sell cut rate versions....every single one has plastic drains, sinks are factory seconds or extra thin.....their tubs are special versions made just for Home Depot...i cant even get them from my suppliers...they are 1/2 price...in some cases 1/4 price of the ones i sell (the last one i installed i could see through from underneith)

they can purchase through the internet....but sometimes ive found parts to be missing...and once again they may have brass drains or plastic...roll the dice...

the only way to get professional quality fixtures is through a plumbing supply house... most of the ones i use sell to the public, but they will pay more than buying them through me....

I am going to write 'fixtures must be supplied by plumber' on my new home contracts from now on for sure

its unbelievable how cheap some of the parts are...the must save .05 cents by switching some of the parts from metal to plastic.....but when you switch 5 parts its .25 cents x 100,000 units sold =$20,500 in their pocket

Spider
03-22-2009, 10:30 AM
I can understand contracting businesses that supply materials as well as service having this difficulty with inferior materials supplied by someone else. I can understand clients doubting the motives of a contractor who insists on supplying all the materials and refuses to install client-supplied materials. It all makes a great deal of sense. Here is how you can solve that---

1. Always offer a supply and install price, whether the client asked for it or not. Guarantee that price and the work for a set period, the longer the better.

2. Price your install only quote to include your normal profit on materials. Note on the quote that Install only is not Labor only, because Install only includes sundry materials like ...(pipe, brackets, screws, posts, or whatever is relevant to your business.) Note also that if the client wants a labor only quote, you can provide one but the client will be expected to supply ALL materials and any time lost because materials are not available will be charged at $XX per hour.

3. Note that there is no guarantee on Install only or Labor only work because the quality of the supplied items is outside your control. Therefore, callbacks will be charged.

4. Provide the client for Supply and Install work with copies of invoices for major components. This will demonstrate to the client that you are not overcharging for major components and informs the client of exactly what has been installed. Your profit on the items will be included elsewhere in your bid.

huggytree
03-22-2009, 03:43 PM
i always tell customers that my sell price is 80% of list price...they can pick something they want on Kohlers website and figure out what my price is by themselves...no hidden magic there

there is no warranty on homeowner supplied fixtures.....but its the grey area that worries me...those drains are just sooooo cheap....if it leaks is it my fault or the product...100% of customers will blame me.......i spend extra time making sure they dont leak...when they do i throw them in the garbage and get a drain out of my van....i only carry chrome , but should probably get some brushed nickel since its more popular.

i had a kitchen faucet 3 months back for a repeat customer and also someone i do business with (she does my signs)....it was the cheapest faucet you could get...it looked like something from 1976....it was Moen, but a special model that isnt in my Moen books.....2 weeks after the install it leaked out of the spout & 1 handle....she called and i said 'here's the # of my service friend...he will charge around $200 to fix'.....she never called him and had a friend install a 2nd faucet for her...when i call her now i can tell there's tension between us....she will never call me again...i did nothing wrong and would do the exact same thing next time....i dont carry the parts for it on my van and would have charged her more than $200 to fix it.

orion_joel
03-23-2009, 02:46 AM
At some point it will be an absolute must to add in. How many mechanic's do you know that will fit owner supplied parts. If you take in new shock absorbers to your mechanic do you think that will fit them for you, most often not.

Steve B
03-23-2009, 05:19 AM
"most of the ones i use sell to the public, but they will pay more than buying them through me...."

That's perfect. Then, you can give them a list of approved suppliers instead of approved fixtures. This will give them the freedom to go check out the stuff at the showroom and see it first hand. Then if they try to buy it there, they will see that you have been making them a good deal. They can then have the salesperson put the item they liked on hold and you can then buy it for them so they can get your professional discount. I think that's how it worked when I bought my house. This at least gave me an opportunity to look at stuff in person instead of just from a catalog.