customer no-show

[huggytree]

i had a bid yesterday and the customer was a no show.

i prequalified her by giving a rough estimate over the phone because i felt she couldnt afford a real plumber.

i did my night before reminder call
she called that morning to ask 'do you charge for estimates?'-bad sign
i show up and no answer- car was in driveway


how do you handle these situations?...i just ignore them

does anyone call them back or charge them a service fee?

ive had service calls where i was planning on doing work where they werent home...since i was planning on working i felt i should charge them for a no show....but i didnt...

this has happened 5x to me in 2 years....so its not a major thing...its sooo annoying....i have just put it down as part of doing business....

what do you do? how do you handle it?....im urged to write them a letter this time.

[thx4yrtym]

huggy,

Sorry about the no--show. I know you wanted to bang on the door, send her a bill for your time, mail her a nasty note in an attempt to make her realize your time is important too, all that stuff. You did about all you can do. 5 times in 2 years is about normal I'd guess. Sounds like you did everything possible to qualify her. I'm sure you've played that phone conversation in your mind a couple of times.

Frankly I don't know which is worse, getting stood up like that or having the person where you are about done with your quote and they inform you that they've already got 6 quotes and have 3 more to go. Have had that happen too many times selling HVAC years ago.

Unfortunately this woman was so afraid you were going to sell her something that she couldn't answer the door.

Kind of hard to see that coming isn't it? no matter who you are.

Better luck on the next call

[Spider]

Simply a cost of doing business - some people are just inconsiderate.

You already wasted an hour - why waste another hour writing a letter, sending a bill, telephoning? Nothng you can do will move your business forward, and wasting one hour is better than wasting two hours.

On future calls like this, makes sure you have a few fliers in your truck and spend a few minutes putting a flier on the front door of a dozen neighboring houses. Then you wouldn't have wasted any time at all!

Don't lose sight of your main purpose.

[Steve B]

Just part of doing business with the public.

I would call and tell her you were there at the appointed time and wanted to know if she needed to reschedule. It may put them on the spot a bit if they were blowing you off. Or, you still might end up getting some work out of it if something out of her control happened (of course she should be calling you in this case).

At least this way, you have a chance to confirm that YOU did the right thing. I'm always thinking of getting a referral - so maybe she'll tell someone else that will actually follow through with the appointment.

[billbenson]

did you try calling them from your cell while you were there. If you were talking from home on a line other than your cell, they might have picked up. If they do, say I'm outside. It would put them on the spot and also confirm that she was hiding from you.

There is always the outside chance she had some emergency and wasn't there. Not likely, but possible.

[huggytree]

i only had the home phone #...i called it...no machine even to pickup....she's always answered right away on previous calls to setup the appointment..

I may call on Monday to ask if she wants to reschedule...it atleast makes her come up with an excuse and puts some pressure on her. i left a flier in her door and feel if it was an emergency they would have called me that night...

[cocoy]

What's wrong with asking if you charge for an estimate?

If someone's coming to my house to do an estimate I'd want to know if I'm going to get charged for it or not. Plus, I'd want to know how much in advance.

Asking someone to come to your house to do something, even if just an estimate, without asking for a price IMO is just asking for trouble. I don't assume in situations like these.

[cocoy]

I think leaving a flier is fine. Just to let them know you were there on shedule...in case they did have some emergency or were running late.

[KristineS]

I would have just left a business card or something to let her know you were there, and then just move on. Unfortunately you will encounter people like this occasionally. There is also the possibility that she might have had an emergency. This way, you let her know you were there and left the door open so she could contact you again. I wouldn't pursue her though.

[huggytree]

Ive got a good lesson for us all!...mostly ME!.....

she had a stroke......i called today and she's back at home....i told her it was my best excuse ever and not to worry about my spent time. I went right over and did the estimate

I was right about them as far as reading all the 'cheap' signs....i have their bid in the mail and its in the range i told them it would be.....

ive never had anyone ask me 'is the estimate free' before....i definately think its a bad sign...any mention of something having to do with price is a bad sign unless your the cheapest plumber in town...im not....

From now on my policy is to call all no shows the next day...who knows maybe the rest of them had emergencys too...lesson learned!

[Steve B]

I must be missing something. How can asking if an estimate is free a bad sign?

[thx4yrtym]

time.
i told her it was my best excuse ever and not to worry about my spent :rolleyes:



i definately think its a bad sign...any mention of something having to do with price is a bad sign unless your the cheapest plumber in town...im not....

In other words, no one is suppose to question your prices?

[huggytree]

no one is supposed to question my prices before i give them prices...yes...asking how much per hour i charge is also a bad sign. when i hear comments about money more than 1 or 2x its always a horrible sign.

who charges for estimates?...ive never paid for one....ive also never asked....its not a normal question in my opinion...anyone who would charge would surely let you know ahead of time...you cant just show up at someone door and ask for money for something the homeowner didnt know about.....in my opinion asking that question says...'ill take your estimate just because its free'....it says im cheap & im not serious..
ive asked 3 different contractors about that comment...we all agree its a bad sign..it shows she's atleast worried about money. we can all agree on that!

this may be the 1st customer who asked me if the estimate was free...maybe in your area's people charge for them...here we dont...

[Steve B]

Or, it could just mean they wanted to know if the estimate was free.

I'm pretty sure (about 99%) I read a post from you (possibly on the old forum) that you were going to start charging for estimates - so apparently, it's not such an unfounded idea.

I'm pretty sure I've never purchased anything without asking how much it was. I probably didn't always wait for the seller to volunteer to share it with me. I guess I wouldn't be a good prospect for you.

[huggytree]

id love to charge for estimates...i wish everyone did...it would be good business...

but they dont and probably never will....i dont know if i ever talked about it....i dont think i did....maybe i have a selective memory though....im getting old

getting a bid isnt a purchase...no one would charge a estimate charge w/o telling you first...

i thought my previous comments would get a more harsh response!

[thx4yrtym]

If I needed a new water heater, the first thing I am going to do is check the prices at Lowe's , Sears etc. Those will be retail prices. I know the plumber pays wholesale where he purchases. cost + markup + labor = price I expect to pay.
Now I can call several plumbers. I tell them what I need and ask for a ball park price.
Why do I ask ?
Several reasons. Partly out of respect for their time. If their price is a lot higher than the others, why would I waste their time. The other reason is that my time is valuable and I'm not going to waste my time playing games with someone who's price is a lot higher. The fact that his price is higher is his problem not mine.

I googled journeyman plumber wages and as of March 10,2009 the hourly rate in Chicago is $35.66 and in New York it's $29.34.

I recall you stating your regular rate is $97.00 per hour and that you often make double that as you often finish in 1/2 the time because you are a fast worker. More power to you if you can get it. It just doesn't make a lot of sense when you complain about getting 1 in 20 bids.

I have to wonder if you are just pulling our chain to get reactions for us.

regards,

[Dan Furman]

I googled journeyman plumber wages and as of March 10,2009 the hourly rate in Chicago is $35.66 and in New York it's $29.34.

I recall you stating your regular rate is $97.00 per hour and that you often make double that as you often finish in 1/2 the time because you are a fast worker. More power to you if you can get it. It just doesn't make a lot of sense when you complain about getting 1 in 20 bids.

I have to wonder if you are just pulling our chain to get reactions for us.

regards,

Huggy isn't pulling our chain at all. If anything, Huggy is brutally honest in his posts.

The wages you googled are almost certainly worker's wages, not wages one could expect to pay a business coming into their home. HUGE difference. Take that wage and triple it, and you'll probably get a reasonable starting point for the "business charges the client" wage.

[cocoy]

I would do the same.

Call a plumber, tell then I need to replace a 50gal elec WH. Around how much would it cost?

Would I be labeled a bad customer?

"in my opinion asking that question says...'ill take your estimate just because its free'....it says im cheap & im not serious..
ive asked 3 different contractors about that comment...we all agree its a bad sign..it shows she's atleast worried about money. we can all agree on that!"

I'm still scratching my head with this one. How about, "I'll take your estimate because I need to have a new WH installed."

And who isn't worried about money?

Seriously...I'm just thinking here from a customer viewpoint.

[thx4yrtym]

Dan,

I totally agree about the distinction between worker's wages and profits a business may need.

I guess I didn't express myself very well. My point is that a new one man business sometimes has to be able to adjust to changing business conditions. Closing 1 in 20 bids suggests there are a number of problems that need to be corrected. There are many differences in marketing to homeowners vs. contractors. It's totally different.

Perhaps I should keep my thoughts to myself on this thread.

Regards,

[Dan Furman]

Dan,

I totally agree about the distinction between worker's wages and profits a business may need.

I guess I didn't express myself very well. My point is that a new one man business sometimes has to be able to adjust to changing business conditions. Closing 1 in 20 bids suggests there are a number of problems that need to be corrected. There are many differences in marketing to homeowners vs. contractors. It's totally different.

Perhaps I should keep my thoughts to myself on this thread.

Regards,

No, don't keep anything to yourself. A little disagreement / clarification / etc is fine :)

I do agree that 1 in 20 suggests things that could be fixed. Not sure his rate is the thing (and maybe it is, I am not overly familiar w/ the plumbing business... I know when I hire someone, price is usually way down on the list.)

[Spider]

One can decide to start a business with the notion of "just starting my own little business," and do just that - start a little business. And struggle indefinately to grow that business to something larger. Or one can decide to "start a big business." They will likely find that growing their start-up into a big business a whole lot easier. It's all in the mindset.

HT, I believe, has chosen the latter. In my opinion, with this as a goal, his "big business" approach is correct. Had he only wanted to have a little business, the small "wages" approach would have been adequate. As a soon-to-be "big business," the profit-minded approach is more valid.

Regarding the 1 in 20 success ratio: If there are 20 one-man plumbers plying for business in his area, even if he were to operate in "wage-mode" 1-20 could be anticipated. I think it is to be expected when he is competing "profit-earner" against "wage-earners"

In time, he will become more discerning and not bid for the type of work these people do. Right now, with the economy as it is in his part of the country, he must bid for everything available. For a company that is to be a big business, every lost bid is advertising - his business name gets out, the name is associated with quality work - and it is training - in meeting clients, in learning what makes clients tick, in discovering who the quality contractors are, in how to bid 'quality, and how to sell quality.

I think HT is on the right track.

[huggytree]

that 1 out of 20 was just a febuary thing...its already over and back to 1 out of 2. that post was about lowering my prices at cost in jan/feb to keep busy.

its all about there being no work....work is back! and im busy again!

if someone asks how much for ANY project i will gladly tell them over the phone...i get water heater calls all day long...i can give a flat rate for them easily. My main complaint with homeowners is that they think plumbing is 1/2 of what it is...i need to screen those people out because they aint gonna hire me....wasted bids = increased office time

Current Milwaukee,WI union wage (with benefits) $ 49.69


$ union wage $49.69
expenses $15.67
Workmans comp $ 2.47
S.S. $2.19
unemploy $ .50
Medicare $ .51
Officetime $14.00

total $85.03 to break even

profit $11.97

= $97 per hour

all plumbers in my area are $85-$125.......that $85 guy is the large, slap it together company who produces plumbing meant to last 1 year...mine is meant to last 20+

i often get medium size jobs done in 1/2 the time...when i see the other 2 bids from the other plumbers im ALWAYS in the middle...usually closer to the low bid too!

of course money plays a part in deciding who they hire....if it is the main reason i lose 100% of the time.....if its 25% i win every time.... my job is to screen out those people who are 100% about money...it will never be low enough for many of them and they will find a sidejob guy or a handyman to slap it together...i see their work all the time....when the house gets sold they pay me to fix it.many handymen dont get 1 fitting correct..pay me now or pay me later....