converting vistors to buyers

[rezzy]

Ok, so you have a site. SEO is optimized and perfect. Blog is spitting out more posts then you even knew it could. Page Rank is through the roof.

How do you convert all this energy to the actual purpose of the site?

Increased Business.

What are some methods to convert visitors in clients/customers? I am also wondering in helping my clients improve their conversion rates as well as myself :).

[vangogh]

Not a question with a simple answer so first I'll point you to a couple of sites that talk about conversions a lot

grokdotcom (http://www.grokdotcom.com/) - If you see anyone writing about conversions the thought probably originated here. Read the blog, look though the site, buy their books. They talk about what they call persuasion architecture. All good stuff.

Invesp (http://www.invesp.com/blog/) - Khalid, the person behind this site is a friend I met through the old forum. Their whole site deals with conversions and is also all good stuff.

The first thing I would ask is what do you consider a conversion? Is it adding something to a shopping cart of getting someone to email you to contact you about your services? Is it someone subscribing to your blog or clicking to view a specific page? There are many things that can be a conversion so the first step is defining what that conversion is.

For some things it might be as simple as trying a different color on a button or making a button more visible. Maybe changing the text on the button. Usually if you want someone to take an action you need to tell them what that action is. It's why you see 'click here' everywhere. By giving the command to click you get more clicks.

Some of it is understanding that different people respond to different things. Some people need to know others have used your services so for them it's important to have testimonials on the site. Other people could care less what others have done and just want to know the details of what you have.

Some is understanding people and what makes them take action. People generally don't care why you want them to do something. They want to know what's in it for them. It's where the talk of benefits over features comes from. Your visitor doesn't really care that your websites are coded well. They want to know that your code makes the page load quicker and keeps people on their site. Give people the reasons why your services/products helps them in a way they want to be helped.

People act more on emotion than logic. One powerful emotion is fear of loss. That's why you'll see offers with deadlines or limited offers. People don't want to miss out and the nature of the offer says if they don't act now or soon they will miss out.

Greed is a powerful emotion. If you can convince someone that hiring you will make them more money it can convince them to buy from you.

I've certainly only scratched the surface. Do check the blogs I linked to above and let them lead you to more info. I definitely recommend the books written by the Eiesnberg brothers at grokdotcom. Click on the Resources link in the menu. All their books are available at any bookstore and Amazon.

[cbscreative]

Since your question is most likely about sales, and since you are in a service business, then becoming an expert (or getting known as one) is a large part of getting conversions. The term "pre-selling" is often used, and I like that term because it describes a process that often gets missed in marketing, especially online marketing with an often unhealthy emphasis on SEO.

All the things you described are great for SEO, but the problem with SEO is first time visitors usually don't know anything about you. The task of building trust is very difficult in this situation. Just getting them to stay for more than 8 seconds is a challenge.

Enter pre-selling. This forum is one of many ways of doing that. Let me use vangogh as an example. Anyone here needing web programming, WordPress help, or several other things would know he is an expert. They would arrive at his site already pre-sold, and that is far more powerful than the best SEO you could possibly create.

[Harold Mansfield]

The only way that I see service providers converting more, without spending the mortgage every month on marketing, is PR.

Writing articles, getting published on other blogs and online newspapers, helping in forums..maybe even performing web work for charities, and churches for the free PR.

You have to get yourself out there (online), and put your name on as many things related to your industry as possible. like Steve said..."Pre-sell" but you have to do it without "selling".

Let's face it, we all love what we do, and we think we are the best at it, but what separates how many clients we get online from the next guy is how many other places our names and businesses are seen outside of our website...either paid advertisement or PR work.

[billbenson]

One thing worth mentioning is getting visitors that are actually prospects. As has been said in other posts quality is better than quantity. Some sites really need to play the numbers game, but they are few and far between.

I just took a quick look at my adwords vs orders stats. Right now I'm at about a 11% ctr. Last week I was at 17%. I haven't done anything to the add campaign in that timeframe, so I'm not sure why the change. I still get the same add placement. My clicks per order is at about 25 clicks per order. I think that is a good ratio, but I don't really know anybody else who relies heavily on adwords for a similar ad campaign to compare it with.

Just took a look at my stats. I only had about 3k uniques per month which is about normal for the site. Its a very niche product line. The bulk of those clicks are for obscure products. 4 clicks here, two there. I also had 2k plus clicks for my main search term which pops up 2 in the natural SERPS.

I don't really know what to make of all of that. Just tossing it out as a point of reference. The site can us a lot of improvement which I'm working on.

I'm redoing the site. We'll see if that helps my closure rate.

Oh, the other thing is the site generates a lot of phone calls as its a complex product line. I improve closure rates by knowing the product and getting quotes to the customer within seconds. That really helps. If its an ecommerce site, a good online quote generator may improve conversions a lot?

[cbscreative]

You have to get yourself out there (online), and put your name on as many things related to your industry as possible. like Steve said..."Pre-sell" but you have to do it without "selling".

Good point. I'm glad you helped clarify that. Even though I used the term pre-sell, I did not mean selling in the normal sense. Getting your name out to build trust is what helps drive sales. Being self-promotional would be counter productive in the types of pre-selling I had in mind.

[vangogh]

Let me use vangogh as an example. Anyone here needing web programming, WordPress help, or several other things would know he is an expert.

It's interesting you mention that since I have had people get in touch with me because they searched, found something I said on a forum, and decided to contact me about work. They may never have seen my site other than to get the contact info. I even wrote a post about the concept a year or so ago on how to build your brand through social media (http://www.vanseodesign.com/blog/social-media/social-media-branding/). You can pick up business by having a brand presence in places other than your site.

I see a few mentions of doing things off site. One thing is definitely getting more targeted traffic. Sometimes the emphasis seems to be all on how much traffic instead of what kind of traffic. If you can work on picking up traffic more likely to be interested in what you offer that greatly helps increase conversions.

Still there's a lot you can do on your site. Since Steve used me as an example, I'll also use myself as an example. When I redesigned my site last year I asked some of my clients why they hired me and why they stick with me. One of the things I gathered from the feedback was many of them liked me. I tend to get into idle chat with clients and I think of many of them as friends more than clients. They liked the personal. When I rewrote my content I stopped referring to myself in the third person or by company name. I switched the language to 'I' and 'me' and wrote things in a much more personal and informal way. I think it's had a great impact because I'm tailoring the site more to the type of people who have hired me in the past.

Some of conversion theory is simply trying different things. Move a button from the left to the right. Change a color of a heading. Change one word in a page title or a heading or your call to action. And all the time be measuring which works best. There is a lot you can do on your site to increase conversions. Combine that with generating targeted traffic as opposed to any traffic and pre-sell outside of your site and you should also increase conversions.

It's not just one thing though. There are lots of little things.

Another example that pops to mind. Anytime you ask for an email address add a small line that says 'we value your privacy' That little line seems to greatly increase how many people will give you their email. Think about possible objections people might have to contacting you and respond to that objection right there at the moment they have to decide whether or not to contact you.

[rezzy]

As it stands a conversion would be a contact for both me and my clients. I want to push my visitors through the funnel. One of clients has good conversions but I am always looking to improve the bottom line. I am always re-analyzing what I did, and deciding if it was the best move. So, when the client comes back for updates, I can give them better site, that gets them more calls and clients.

[Dan Furman]

I'm biased, but assuming you have the right traffic, the #1 thing that leads to website conversion is your copy (both in actual words and structure that it's written in). I don't see anything else being even remotely close.

[vangogh]

I'm not biased and I agree. There's a lot that can help lead to conversions, but your copy is at the top of the list. I'm always surprised that the copywriting section here gets so little conversation. It's one of the most important aspect to so many aspects of business success.

My bias is toward design and development which I think very important as well, but I'll put copywriting at the top of the list. Good copy can overcome a lot of other things done poorly. The reverse usually isn't true.

[Dan Furman]

I'm always surprised that the copywriting section here gets so little conversation. It's one of the most important aspect to so many aspects of business success.


This sounds jaded (it isn't, but it sounds like it), but many people do not value copywriting very much. Not in a "I'm willing to pay xxxx for it" sense. I think it's partially because anyone can write on a basic level.

Plus, freelance copywriting is really a new-ish industry (at least to the mainstream). A lot of people don't even realize copywriters like me exist... when I tell people what I do for a living, a lot of them don't understand it, or think I do "computer stuff" because I write "website copy".


My bias is toward design and development which I think very important as well, but I'll put copywriting at the top of the list. Good copy can overcome a lot of other things done poorly. The reverse usually isn't true.

I've always said that bad design, much like bad copy, will drive people away. In fact, poor design will drive someone away faster. So for first impressions, design is more important. And good design will always help good copy. They go hand in hand - to have a successful website, you really can't skimp on either.

But in the end, if I had a page with no design at all - just a white background - given 3,000 words, I'll still sell in respectable numbers. The reverse (design with no words) probably isn't true. That's why copy is more important in terms of straight conversion.

[vangogh]

I agree with everything you said. I think the issue with copywriting is everyone can write. The problem is most people don't write well and even less write well in a way that sells. I've run into similar things with design.

Everyone knows someone who can build a website, but most of those people can't build an effective website. And many people assume they can build the site themselves. They can build it, but usually not in a way that will keep someone on the site or drive sales. Same thing with copywriting. People are looking to save money and since they can type words on a page they assume they can write copy.

[rezzy]

So how can you get a customer to contact you in the face of those problems? Honestly, I have seen copywriters but never knew what it was, or why I would hire someone to do it.

[vangogh]

Your copy helps convince people to contact you. It will let people know the reasons why they should choose you and counter any objections they might have. Take a look at Dan's site and see how he writes. Notice that he pulls you right in. Without even taking time to analyze why his writing works you can tell it's going to. Compare it to your own site and see if you notice the difference. That's not meant as a knock on you, but rather it's a compliment to Dan.

Writing is a specialty just like many other things. When it's done better it's more effective. Someone who writes for a living is going to be better at communicating what you want to say with what your potential clients want to hear.

[Dan Furman]

Your copy helps convince people to contact you. It will let people know the reasons why they should choose you and counter any objections they might have. Take a look at Dan's site and see how he writes. Notice that he pulls you right in. Without even taking time to analyze why his writing works you can tell it's going to. Compare it to your own site and see if you notice the difference. That's not meant as a knock on you, but rather it's a compliment to Dan.

Writing is a specialty just like many other things. When it's done better it's more effective. Someone who writes for a living is going to be better at communicating what you want to say with what your potential clients want to hear.

Thanks for the compliment.

heh - I hate my site right now :) It worked great in the past (and is still doing ok), but the times, they are a' changin'. I'm right now re-doing my entire "clear-writing" site to make it smaller, tighter, and to carry more of an ROI message. It's also going to be more "I" than "we" (the site is heavily "we" right now, which was fine for awhile, but I'm going back to more "I", as I've reached the point where I think "I" am the key advantage.) Hopefully be done in a week or three.

The "dan furman online" site is actually the better written of the two right now (at least I feel that way)

[cbscreative]

Dan and vangogh, you two have said it so well, there is not much to add. I agree that design is important, but only important to the point that it looks like it was done professionally. It really is the copy that makes the difference after that, and I would dare say the same thing vangogh did, the copy is more important than the design. I'm sure many designers might disagree, but the numbers show that to be correct.

There have been studies done on this which is no surprise because everything is getting studied by someone. It has been shown that well over 75% of the time, web users take note of copy before they even notice graphics. That really shouldn't surprise us either since people use search engines to find information, it is usually information they are looking for.

Dan, I'm sure we both share a similar attitude on the fact that most people don't value copywriting. I actually consider that to be good. If more people valued it, then our job would be tougher. Since we get the clients who do value good copywriting, the rest wonder why they are losing.

On my original point about pre-selling (or any kind of selling), guess what that involves...you got it, it requires good copy.

[vangogh]

Glad to supply the compliments Dan. I've read many pages of your sites and one of your books so I have a lot of sample to draw from.

Think about it. Think of a simple AdWords ad that you're hoping will get a searcher to click and prepped for what's on the other side of that link. It's just a couple lines of copy, but done poorly means you'll either get no traffic or pay for traffic that wasn't interested in what you were selling. Done right your clicks will increase, your cost will go down, and you'll sell more. Copywriting is important to business.

[rezzy]

Is copywriting something designers can learn or is this best allow a pro to work at? Steven can you adequately copy write your pages to get the return you want, or have you hired/considered hiring a person to write them?

[vangogh]

I think it's like most anything. Some people will have a natural talent for copywriting the same as some people have a natural talent for design or accounting. At the same time I think everyone can learn to be a better copywriter or designer or accountant. It really comes down to how much time you're willing to put into learning.

I do my own copywriting. I won't claim to be better than a professional copywriter, but I've done a lot of writing through the years and in general think I write well. I also enjoy learning how to do it better.

[Dan Furman]

I would encourage you to at least try it yourself. Maybe read up on it some (my book about it, linked below, isn't quite out yet. But it will be soon, and there are others, too.)

If you try it and it doesn't work, then look into hiring someone.

[cbscreative]

I think the skill to write is much more learned and developed than natural. Although I agree that some people may have more natural talent than others, I think almost anyone interested can learn to write.

I never really thought of myself as a writer until about the beginning of this decade, though I did do some writing for several years before that. When I took some advanced writing courses at a local business university, it helped me further develop the skill, but also revealed that I was better at it than I thought, and helped fuel the desire to write. Those courses, which are required for anyone seeking a degree, assume that anyone can be taught to write, or write better. I believe this is true as long as the desire is present.

BTW vangogh, I think you write plenty well.

[rezzy]

My impression is there are different types of writing. A childs book would not be written the same way as a business report or that of getting customers to purchase something.

The sentence structure and word choose helps to convey a certain message and different writers are experts at a certain method. Just like actors always portray a similar character type throughout their movie career. It becomes almost awkward when they are out of their element.

[billbenson]

Is there a correlation between people who like to read and write?

[cbscreative]

Is there a correlation between people who like to read and write?

I've heard it said that good writers are avid readers. I think it's true. Although reading a lot does not necessarily lead to writing, writers do tend to read quite a bit.

[Dan Furman]

I think the skill to write is much more learned and developed than natural. Although I agree that some people may have more natural talent than others, I think almost anyone interested can learn to write.

To a point. But as someone who's tried to teach interested people, I find it much like drawing - try as I might, I will never be able to draw well. It just isn't in me. Perhaps someone can teach me to draw a little, but to do it really well... not really. It's art.

The thing with writing is (in the context that we are talking about it, which is copywriting), you have to write well enough so other people will voluntarily read it. And keep reading it. And feel like "yes, I have to contact this person". That's really hard to do.

In fact, I'm not sure that can really be taught unless a decent level of talent is already there.

I always say "if you write a nice Christmas letter... meaning people look forward to it and tell you how good of a writer you are when they get it, you may have what it takes."

And yes, VG writes pretty well. Definitely good enough to do this for himself. :)

[Dan Furman]

Is there a correlation between people who like to read and write?

Maybe. I LOVED to read. Not so much anymore, though... it's almost like "ugh, more words..."

[vangogh]

Thanks Dan :)

Steve I think anyone can learn to be a better writer than they are, but that doesn't mean they can learn to be a great writer. I think we're all born with certain innate abilities or perhaps we nurture those abilities through the life we lead. I don't know if you can just anyway and turn them into a great writer or artist or carpenter or whatever.

Bryan I do think there's a correlation between reading and writing. Perhaps in reading writers develop those innate talents. I know in my case I read a lot and from an early age I read literature. I read great writers. Because of that I think I developed that innate sense of what makes for good writing. However I've also studied the craft of writing over the years, mostly the craft of fiction writing, but writing in general as well.

[cbscreative]

Well I hope I didn't imply that "anyone" can be a great writer, but I think most people can be taught to communicate effectively. That also doesn't mean they could be copywriters as Dan pointed out. However, within a given niche, I think anyone with passion or desire and training could be effective to reach an audience that shares their interest.

Many experts believe that every person has the capacity for creativity, it just needs to be developed. I believe this is true, but often, sometimes through the educational system itself, the creativity gets supressed. And if a person does not believe they have creativity, then they are missing the most important ingredient for harnessing it.

Beyond that, what makes a great writer is different for everyone. Someone who has had intense experiences can use that to put passion into their writing that a person whose life has been easier would never be able to do. When I write sales copy, I draw a great deal from many years of selling experience. Without that, I doubt any amount of training could have been as beneficial as face to face selling with many, many types of people in real world situations.

[vangogh]

Well I hope I didn't imply that "anyone" can be a great writer

Wasn't thinking you were implying that. I do think that anyway with the desire and some work can learn to do anything better. That includes anything creative. I guess where I'm coming from is the idea that two people could put in the same amount of work learning something and won't end up with the same results. We all seem to have certain natural talents. Whether those talents come from genetics or if they come from our early experiences I'm not sure. Probably some of both.

The other thing to consider is how much time and effort it will take to become good at something. And then weigh that time and effort against your desire to become good. Sometimes it makes more sense to hire someone else who already is good.

I do agree that everyone can learn to be better at anything.

[rezzy]

This brings us around to why we have pros at certain things because no one can be great at everything! If we could all great at everything we tried, this forum would cease to exist.

[cbscreative]

The other thing to consider is how much time and effort it will take to become good at something. And then weigh that time and effort against your desire to become good. Sometimes it makes more sense to hire someone else who already is good.

I absolutely agree. Many of the people doing their own web sites, writing, etc. would do well to adopt this thinking. They may be saving money, but lost opportunity (the invisible cost) is more expensive than they may ever realize.

[vangogh]

People do seem to gloss over the opportunity cost. It's harder to quantify in some cases and at first glance doesn't appear to be a cost. It is though and usually it costs more than hiring out for the same job.

[Jagella]

When I redesigned my site last year I asked some of my clients why they hired me and why they stick with me. One of the things I gathered from the feedback was many of them liked me. I tend to get into idle chat with clients and I think of many of them as friends more than clients. They liked the personal. When I rewrote my content I stopped referring to myself in the third person or by company name. I switched the language to 'I' and 'me' and wrote things in a much more personal and informal way. I think it's had a great impact because I'm tailoring the site more to the type of people who have hired me in the past.

I generally like to do business with people who I feel at ease with. I will shy away from businesses that seem to treat me as if they don't like me or don't want my business. Even body language can discourage me from continuing to do business if I see that person as nervous or hostile in some way.

I also tend to be very critical of products. Before a purchase, I will often carefully examine it to see if it will deliver on its promise. I also look for return policies to see if I can get a replacement or refund if the product is defective.

Finally, I don't wish to struggle with purchasing a product online or offline. Make it easy for me, and you may convert me. Amazon.com's one-click order system is very quick and easy to use, and it's one of the most important reasons I do business with them.

Just my 2¢.

Jagella

[Jagella]

I'm biased, but assuming you have the right traffic, the #1 thing that leads to website conversion is your copy (both in actual words and structure that it's written in). I don't see anything else being even remotely close.

Dan, do you know of any resources, websites or books, that explain how to write good copy? Is it best to leave to a professional?

Jagella

[Jagella]

There have been studies done on this which is no surprise because everything is getting studied by someone. It has been shown that well over 75% of the time, web users take note of copy before they even notice graphics.

It's interesting that you should mention this, Steve, because I tend to notice text on packages before I notice the graphics. I think that the same principle that applies to web pages can be applied to graphic design in general.

Jagella

[Jagella]

Is there a correlation between people who like to read and write?

I've read that reading helps one to write better.

Jagella

[Jagella]

How do you convert all this energy to the actual purpose of the site?

Here's a few more pointers:


Pass the 8-second test—appeal quickly.
Tell them what's in it for them.
Use compelling images; no stock photos in place of actual product images.
Close the sale with a call to action. (1)


Jagella

(1) Chris Crum, Google Tips for More Conversions, Google Tips for More Conversions | WebProNews (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/03/16/google-tips-for-more-conversions), (Accessed 03/17/2009)

[vangogh]

Joe there's plenty of info and books about copywriting. Search online and check your bookstore. I think it's in another thread we were talking about whether you could learn to be a good copywriter or if it was a natural talent.

My own view is it's a little of both. You can definitely learn to improve your current level of copywriting skills. Some people whether through genetics or the sum total of their experience will still be better at writing in general and copywriting in particular than others.

Whether or not to learn well enough to suit your needs or hire a professional is up to you. I would certainly recommend learning to improve your skills. It's unlikely you'll hire someone to write everything for you. Still you may decide it's best to hire someone to write the copy for your site or your advertising. A professional will likely create more effective copy.

[Jagella]

Joe there's plenty of info and books about copywriting. Search online and check your bookstore. I think it's in another thread we were talking about whether you could learn to be a good copywriter or if it was a natural talent.

Steve, I am nothing if not a do-it-yourselfer. I'll try very hard to become an effective copy writer, mess up, and then look for the money to hire somebody who can do it right. :D

By the way, I tried the link to grokdotcom that you posted earlier on this thread. I filled out their contact form, and sure enough they phoned me this afternoon. As my bad luck would have it, I was in the bathroom and answered using my cordless phone thinking it was a friend or acquaintance. At first I wasn't sure who they were or why they were calling, but after an awkward moment I remembered that I had filled out their contact form. I explained my situation, and the woman I was speaking to told me that their services weren't for me. If I remember correctly, she told me it would cost $1,000 per month. I told her I simply don't have that kind of money.

She did explain a less expensive option, though. She suggested I read A Call to Action (http://www.amazon.com/Call-Action-Formulas-Improve-Results/dp/078521965X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237313312&sr=1-1). I like books for the simple reason that they're relatively inexpensive, but I thought, “Oh—another book!” Reading a book is one thing, but effectively making use of it is another matter entirely. It requires study, commitment, action and money, of course.

http://www.grokdotcom.com/images/CallToActionCover.jpg

I think I've reached a crossroad in my life, Steve. I'm facing some heavy business decisions in the midst of some very troubling personal problems. :confused: I think that 2009 will make me or break me. But that's another topic for another thread.

Thanks for reading.

Jagella

[vangogh]

Yep their services are expensive. They work with higher end clients usually. Call to action is a great book. So are their other books. This one does have a lot of copywriting advice in it. It's an easy book to read too. Definitely worth the money.

[Dan Furman]

Dan, do you know of any resources, websites or books, that explain how to write good copy?

Well, since you asked:

Do the Web Write (http://danfurmanonline.com/do-the-web-write.html)

:)

It'll be out momentarily (I have mine in hand, so I know it's been printed.)

[vangogh]

Nice. I've been waiting for it to be ready. After reading your last book I've been looking forward to this one.

[Jagella]

Well, since you asked:

Do the Web Write (http://danfurmanonline.com/do-the-web-write.html)

:)

It'll be out momentarily (I have mine in hand, so I know it's been printed.)

You made a sale, Dan. I just signed up with Amazon.com to alert me to when your book is available. I'll be looking to you for feedback on its content, of course. :)

Jagella

[Jagella]

Nice. I've been waiting for it to be ready. After reading your last book I've been looking forward to this one.

I just ordered a copy of A Call to Action, too. I'll let you know how I like it, Steve.

One thing to look out for reading all these books is not to do so much reading that you don't act on it.

Jagella

[vangogh]

One thing to look out for reading all these books is not to do so much reading that you don't act on it.

Good point. You'll learn from these books, but yeah, you do have to act on the new knowledge.

[Jagella]

Good point. You'll learn from these books, but yeah, you do have to act on the new knowledge.

Steve, I didn't mean to imply that you won't act on what you read. You obviously do act on what you're learning. It does seem to be a problem for me, though. I practice much of what I have learned, but there's so much I've learned that I've yet to apply. In a way that's a good thing if I do get my butt in gear eventually.

Jagella

[vangogh]

I didn't think you meaning to imply that about me. I figured you were talking about yourself. Some things you learn you can apply right away to your work. For example in a call to action it helps to use strong action verbs to get people to take action. Keep that in mind when you're writing a call to action. If you're adding a link inside a post or a page think about the words and ask yourself if you're using a strong action verb. As you pay attention you'll notice what words you are using and be able to think about how to improve those words. Over time it becomes habit and more natural.