Social Media as a Marketing Tool

[KristineS]

I have used a lot of social media as a marketing tool for the various companies for which I work. I've used forums and other tools, to get the word out about our companies and what they do.

In the time I've been doing this I've found there are two kinds of people on the forums and other sites. There are people who are truly there to contribute and market their businesses, and there are people who are there solely to market. The ones who contribute and market a bit on the side usually have immense credibility. The ones who only contribute when they want to push their own product or service usually lose credibility.

Are you more likely to do business with someone who contributes to a social media site before they market their own product or service, or does that not matter to you? Do you just assume everyone is there to market?

[vangogh]

I don't assume everyone is there to market. Some people just want to interact with the sites. I do expect people will market themselves to some degree though and I don't mind as long as it's not too much.

When I see people do nothing but promote themselves it turns me off quickly. However if people are genuinely contributing and from time to time call attention to a product or a blog post I don't mind at all.

[Marcomguy]

If your product requires relationship selling, then you're better off first being part of the community. If it's a transaction sale, being part of the community may not be important.

Then again, maybe the people who go to forums only to market their businesses are having some success with this tactic. If they cast their line often enough, someone, somewhere will bite.

[vangogh]

Even if your sales are transaction being part of the community can still help. A certain amount of marketing is getting work out you exist. You don't have to be actively marketing yourself in order for people to know what you do or what you sell.

I understand your point though and the distinction.

One other thing to consider is that most people usually would like to see search engines sending them traffic. Links drive search rank to a great extent. Many people involved with social media also write blogs and run websites. Interacting with them more often leads to more links and consequently more search traffic.

[KristineS]

I've met and do business with people through forums and blogs, but the people with whom I want to do business are the ones who contribute. I'm not interested in the person who is just there to say "look what I did" and is constantly pushing his or her own agenda. I think you have to give before you can get. If you're just there to constantly get, you're doing yourself and the venue a disservice.

[Spider]

I don't think I have ever gained a client from any discussion forum in which I participate. Thus, marketing is not the reason I participate. I imagine that anyone using social media for marketing putposes is spending a lot of time and I would question the efficacy of the strategy.

[vangogh]

Your success with social media and forums depends on a number of factors. It might be more natural for some people and some businesses than others.

Social media can help extend the reach of your brand and you don't need to actively market yourself to have it work. Traditionally branding has been an expensive proposition. Social media changes gives you an opportunity to extend the reach of your brand without having to spend the money.

It is or at least can be time consuming, but the time is still within reasonable means.

[KristineS]

I think social media is a way to make connections. I first met both the Steves on a forum. I've made connections for our companies through blogs. I did all those things in part to get the word out about our companies, but also because I was looking to become part of a community. I think the fact that I was genuine came through.

Marketing yourself through social media does take time, but it can be worth it. Particularly when you're starting out, time may be the thing you're most able to spend.

[theGypsy]

Good lord.... missed this thread.

I have had an ongoing love/hate relationship with Social Media Marketing. Initially I was very hard on it as I felt it is more the domain of arger companies that actually have the budgets for branding activities.

Over the last year of butting heads with SMM peeps I have come to find more value in it (SEO, CRM, Qual Research etc..) and have loosened my grip somewhat (to the point of blogging for a SMM blog)

Now, that doesn't mean I am lovin it tho....

I still think it is VERY important for businesses to understand the goals for the undertaking. It can easily become a time sink that costs far more than it is worth. It really does need to be planned out and benchmarked (primary and secondary goals).

One of the last things it should be (to my mind) is a conversions/sales tool. While getting the odd primary conversion is nice, rarely the goal of most SMM programs.


..... as for forums, I am just a chatty guy that likes to pitch in here and there when I get the chance... once upon a time it was also a great way to cut my teeth in SEO world.

[vangogh]

How did you miss this post until now Dave?

I go back and forth on it too sometimes. In general I think social media has a lot of pros. It's a great way to connect with people in and out of your industry and I know I've formed many relationships solely through social sites.

I've definitely seen an increase in traffic and links since becoming more involved with social media as I've become part of some conversations.

At the same time it's easy to get frustrated with it. Sometimes you do come across people who are only interested in marketing themselves or you see people being all too cliquish and you feel like you're back in high school.

[theGypsy]

No idea how this one got by me....he he.... I have well documented my thoughts on the value of SMM... a pet peeve of mine really.

For me, social media (1.0 and 2.0) have played a big part in my career, it's more of convincing clients and showing value that is more of an issue. Many times, depending on the market and business model, SMM is a hard sell IMHO. Especially with SMBs... the larger corps already have budgets for SEO,CRM,Qual Research, branding - and so allocating a portion of each towards a dedicated SMM program isn't so bad... it's the smaller enterprises that one can actually have to create a stand alone budget where it becomes a tough go...

Many of the SMMs I know and have talked with tend to have larger companies as clients.... it is creating effective campaigns for smaller companies that becomes the challenge ultimately.. paying a dedicated staffer, or outsourcing SMM can be challenging and the planning/goal setting needs to be all that more defined....

[vangogh]

Yep, I'm quite familiar with your SMM thoughts.

I hear you about the budgets. SMM is time consuming. It's a hard sell to small business clients for understandable reasons. I also think for small businesses it's probably better to get involved with on their own than to have someone else do the work. To me the biggest benefit is networking and that just works better if you're networking for yourself instead of having someone else do it for you.

One way I think small biz can play in the space is to find one or two social sites they genuinely enjoy and just getting involved when they have time. A good deal of social sites are actually useful. My entry point was delicious, which has saved me a lot of time over the years and regardless of any marketing benefit I'd still use the site.

One other way small biz can use social media is research. You can learn a lot about different markets search social sites.

[the goat]

My biggest reason for social networking is to learn from people and if possible help along the way (for me it is still more of the latter, but as I gain confidence in my knowledge I have been able to be more helpful to some lately). I would never solicit anyone, people know what I do and if they happen to need my services great (very rare to happen upon someone like that in my business though). I have hired a few people I've met through social networking along the way though.

To answer your original question, when I first joined SBF there was probably a 50/50 ratio of people I would ever hire and people with no credibility. That ratio had dropped to about 10/90 before this forum was formed.

Luckily it seems the 10% have mostly found their way here. This forum seems like it could certainly become a place where members really do work with each other and develop relationships.

[vangogh]

Learning and sharing are great reasons to connect. Do you participate with networking services like Twitter and Plurk or use sites like Digg and StumbleUpon.

We do seem to have the cream of the crop from the old forum here. A few still haven't found there way over, but maybe in time. And I agree many of us could form working relationships as most of us have need for each other's services.

[KristineS]

One of the nice things about these sorts of forums is that you get to connect with people you might otherwise never meet. Vangogh lives in Colorado, I live in Michigan. Had we not met on a forum we probably would have never met at all.

Social media allows you to enlarge your circle of connections and exposes you to more opportunities. It also can be a lot of fun.

[Spider]

One of the nice things about these sorts of forums is that you get to connect with people you might otherwise never meet. Vangogh lives in Colorado, I live in Michigan. Had we not met on a forum we probably would have never met at all....This is so true. My book, "Keep Your Eyes On The Prize," is co-authored with a young lady out of Calgary, Canada, and we have never met, other than as members of the Successvibe discussion forum.

It certainly is a new and wonderful electronic world we live in!

[vangogh]

It's funny Frederick. I've never met most of my clients even though some are right here in town. I've also never met many people I now consider friends. There are some people I only know online who know just as much about me and me about them as I ever have with people I've spend time with face to face.

[Ad-Vice_Man]

Well i'll put it this way.. about 60% of the traffic to my Free advertising site comes from business forums I participate in. The other 30% are from organic search. the other 10% are direct referrals..

Yes like me, even my website gives 110% :)

[KristineS]

Well i'll put it this way.. about 60% of the traffic to my Free advertising site comes from business forums I participate in. The other 30% are from organic search. the other 10% are direct referrals..

Yes like me, even my website gives 110% :)

:D That's a good one Ad-vice Man

[Ad-Vice_Man]

Thanks... it's nice to be noticed :)

[the goat]

Learning and sharing are great reasons to connect. Do you participate with networking services like Twitter and Plurk or use sites like Digg and StumbleUpon.

I don't use Twitter and Plurk, but I do use Facebook.

As for Digg and Stumble I have in the past but never did as much as I should, that is until you posted the Sociable plug in for wordpress. With those icons in place now, it makes it 10 times easier to quickly add your newest post to sites like Digg and Stumble.

There is a site called ballype that has been really good for the sports related sites too.

[vangogh]

Facebook is another good way to connect with people. With Digg and StumbleUpon and others I think it's generally best to let others submit your content, but just having the buttons there is an indication you'd like them to. You can even rewrite the heading text on the plugin so it says something like: "Enjoy this post? Consider sumbitting it to one of the following services." or something to that effect.

It's ok to submit your own content every so often, but too much and it can turn people off.

[the goat]

I didn't realize it would turn people off. Just curious though, how would they know it was my own stuff?

I write under a pen name and my accounts at Digg and Stumble are under different nicknames and I post other random stuff I come across too.

I am pretty much a noob when it comes to these types of sites and the last thing I want to do is turn people off.

[vangogh]

It's not that hard to know you're submitting your own content. It might be the link in your profile or one of your other profiles. People get suspicious if you're always submitting the same content. If the content isn't truly that great. Lots of different ways to tell.

If you're posting under different names and submitting other content too, then sure it's less likely someone will know you're submitting your own content, but even then if you want to have success you really do need to have content the community likes. If you're just submitting because you want some traffic you're not likely to have the same success.

You also have to consider what social media traffic is and does. Most will visit a page that's hot or on the front page of a site, but those same people generally leave quickly. The value in social media is often less about the traffic and more about building your brand on another site and making connections with people who will later visit your site and link to you.

The traffic spikes are generally somewhat artificial. I'm not saying you can't get good traffic from social media. Sites certainly do. But I think the value is really other than the direct traffic.

I think of social media similarly to how I think about forums. If you participate and add something to the community you'll get something back. If your goal is to take from the community you don't give the community a chance to give back to you.

[KristineS]

I think of social media similarly to how I think about forums. If you participate and add something to the community you'll get something back. If your goal is to take from the community you don't give the community a chance to give back to you.

I think you're so right about that. You can always tell the people who are just there to shill for their own stuff and most people start avoiding them pretty quick. You get what you give. If you help others they'll help you. The smart people know it's about forming a network and making connections. If you show you're there to benefit others you can generally find someone to give you a helping hand when you need it.

[the goat]

I guess I should probably look a little deeper into the aspects of sites like Digg and Stumble. I was under the impression they were generally article submission sites. From what you two are saying it sounds like I have only scratched the surface.

Thank you VG and Kristine, as always you have both been very insightful.

[vangogh]

They are in a sense article submission sites. Really more social voting sites. Ideally site members submit content that they think the community around the site will enjoy. Assuming the community agrees they vote the content up, making it more visible, and more people see it.

Note I said ideally, since all of these sites are manipulated to some degree and each has an algorithm where votes and submissions from certain users tend to weigh more than others.

Consider the ideal though. Digg as a community is pro Apple, pro Linux, anti Microsoft. If you're writing content about how wonderful Windows Vista is the community isn't going to like it or you. On the other hand if you wrote an article called top 10 reasons Apple kicks Microsoft A$$ then it's likely to be accepted by the Digg crowd.

It's about spending some time with the community first and understanding what you can about how the community works before trying to hard to market yourself to the community.

[greenoak]

i love social media, and i think i have gotten a lot of good out of it, like on here ... in information, in thinking thru ideas, in enjoyment...but i dont see you as potiential customers....... but im pretty sure nobody on here is going to be dropping in witha truck and buying my cupboards...dang!!!
on the other hand a big portion of my customers mentions my website...the new ones somehow saw it thru the google.and studied my site .. and came to my store... i know i have pretty great google in my fields....so i need to be out there....my old customers mention my site quite a bit too and my blog...

one more point...partly im in the foo foo decorating world, the you go girl world, the pink world....and there , social media seems to be pointed at getting well connected on the web, trading links, chatting, complimenting, with the big hope of getting into magazines...being brick and mortar with a payroll, im so different...i want to/have to get customers to me...not just impress my fellow bloggers, pinkies or magazine editors.....etc etc..
i mean i dont have time to twitter or play blog tag with fun people who are too faraway and / or too small to be in my customer pool......[im looking for customers with 5000 to 10,000$ to spend , who can justify coming here with a big truck to buy for their store]
anyway, i think a lot of the social media advice in my world, is partly misdirected fluff.....but i would love to hear how to use it better, in ways i could believe in...
thats why im glad to have found you guys again...even tho you arent in my world, your view is sometimes so helpful and realistic....
ann

[vangogh]

People are still trying to figure out social media as far as marketing is concerned. The one thing that seems certain is that more and more people are using social media and that trend is only going to continue. The sites where people congregate may change, but the concept isn't going anywhere.

When it comes to your business understand that social media is a conversation. It's where people are spending their time. Some of those people are your customers, some are people in your industry. I don't think social media works as a direct marketing channel in most cases. But it can work indirectly.

One thing to realize is that since there's a conversation going on you can listen to that conversation and find out what your customers or potential customers are talking about. You can discover what they want and what they like, etc. You can do all sorts of market research by listening in.

From your side you can use social media as a way to be more visible. It's just another way to be accessible to your market. It can also be a good branding tool. Most of us have sites that get seen by a limited amount of people. Even if we're doing well most people still don't know who we are or are likely to find us.

On the other hand social media sites like FaceBook or MySpace are seen by many more people. Pages on those sites can rank well based on the authority of the overall site. If you create a profile page at those sites and maintain it then you have another potential entry point into your business.


Social sites also give you the potential to network with people the same way you might network with people offline. Do all those connections lead to something that helps your business? Probably not. But some will.

Ultimately when it comes to being online you don't control the conversation about your business or your market. That conversation is taking place through social media right now and so it makes sense to at least listen to the conversation, and then participate in the conversation.

[KristineS]

One thing to realize is that since there's a conversation going on you can listen to that conversation and find out what your customers or potential customers are talking about. You can discover what they want and what they like, etc. You can do all sorts of market research by listening in.



This is so true and so valuable. One of our companies makes a hunting product. When we were first debuting the product, I spent a lot of time on hunting forums. I got so much free market research from those forums just from asking simple questions. I could test marketing strategies, try out new slogans and hear what people thought of marketing and marketers without exposing our company to any negative attention. It was fabulous.

[vangogh]

It's perhaps the best and least utilized reason for paying attention to social media. People want to see social media as a quick source of traffic, but it's much more. You hear all the time people not knowing how they can determine what their customers want. All you have to do is listen. Customers are telling you every day what they want.

[KristineS]

It's perhaps the best and least utilized reason for paying attention to social media. People want to see social media as a quick source of traffic, but it's much more. You hear all the time people not knowing how they can determine what their customers want. All you have to do is listen. Customers are telling you every day what they want.

They really are and, if you spend the time to become part of the community, they'll answer your questions in detail. I think people who view social media as simply a way to talk are making a mistake. At least half the value of social media is being able to listen, at least when it comes to forums. You can learn so much just from reading responses.

Granted, sometimes the feedback you get is just a small cross section of your target market, but it is still feedback from potential customers and, as such, is invaluable.

[vangogh]

I think people who view social media as simply a way to talk are making a mistake.

Agreed. A conversation is a two way flow of information. In order to be part of a conversation you need to be able to listen as well as talk.

[greenoak]

i sure agree and thats why im trying to find out where my target customers hang out on the web....like a small business forum for brick and mortar businesses...anybody know one?

im like a sponge and love all info...even when i dont exactly get it...it really bugs me that i dont really know much about twitter and digg and stumble facebook,etc etc ...but dang...im way busy..and can hardly keep up with the stuff i already have going.....
and i would love to hear a social media conversation within the brick and mortar community.....not sure what would be the most effective thing to add to a going brick and mortar business.......
we have website and email and blog and a few forums..
ann

[KristineS]

It is pretty easy to get lost in the choices, Ann. Before you know it you can have several profiles going and not really be doing much with any of them. If you're looking to talk to customers, one of your best bets is a forum. Find a decorating forum and see who's there. I bet you could get lots of good ideas.

[greenoak]

thats what i figure too...and why its pretty hard for me to commit to a new venture, my last one was the blog....the next maybe a new webiste.......but every step we have taken into cyberspace has brought us good things for our store..so itsnaturally interesting to me......

decorating forums are mostly stay at home moms, not anyone in business.....i know lots of places for decorating talk , and i check in sometimes, im not really looking for decorating ideas....have great sources and ideas already..
.,..im looking for a store forum , where owners who might need my products would be or where owners might be discussing the issues my store is facing...,, if you ever hear of one i would love to take a peek......

[vangogh]

Ann why not ask on your blog what social media sites people use (if they use them). You could write a post saying how you think many of your readers have similar interests and might like to connect with each other. Then ask them to post a link to their social media profiles or just mention their usernames.

Another way to connect is to start using a site like Facebook, or Twitter, or whichever, write a post about your initial experiences and post a link to your profile asking people to follow you. Then ask your readers to post their's too.

Also try searching for sites. Use your keywords "antiques, etc" and add words like social, media, and profile. You might find a few sites that way.

[greenoak]

ive asked that of a lot of cyber friends.....
will try your combos..thanks...
.im probably going to join giftbeat....its costs about 120$ to join i think....im on giftshop forum too...and a nice country store site....my favorite online community , the one closest to my store, and super helpful for a long time is all different now....
i think of facebook as for kids...and dont even know how it relates to business., or what a profile is....my blogger profile? ....im dabbeling on craigslist right now and sold a 400$ bookcase from it today....they came here...

im learning about as fast as i can manage .on the cyber tekk web stuff...but so busy with everything...tonight i bought a boxtruck load of good old crocks and furniture after work from another dealer.......and we were swamped at the store today...
ann

[vangogh]

Don't let it overwhelm you. There are a ton od social media sites and a ton more new ones every day it seems. Find one or two you like and participate as you can.

Another thing you might try is asking customers in the store. Try directing conversations with them toward the internet and see if they know of any sites. Usually once you find one or two those two will eventually direct you to most of the others.

[greenoak]

really van gogh, i havent found the kind of social sites im searching for and related to my business...meaning where i could socialize with actual brick and mortar stores and share some common background ..
..like you tekk guys socialize here...it seems so nice,.you can talk with your peers,,,about things that are way over most peoples heads, and get good feedback and sharing.....i always learn something here!!even tho lotsof it is way past my interest...
....i find lots of go girl sites, stay at home mom sites talking about decorating, business dreamers and wannabees sites, and many full of new or hopeful new businesses...and of course the internet sellers....
i dont care for all women sites... i dont look at myself that way, at work...
but ive fouond very few with even 5 yr businesses in them...i want to talk with someone else facing all the retail issues...and knows my world...
finding a great retail on line community would be great....
..learning the side things, like twitter, stumble...etc is kind of overwhelming....but not crucial to me at present...and i do learn and hear about that on the several social sites i do go to...so i get something out of joining them ...even tho im looking for more...

[vangogh]

Yeah, you may not find exactly the kind of people you're hoping to find. Your industry probably isn't at the cutting edge of technology and many in the industry probably aren't using social media. There might not be one or two sites devoted to what you'd ideally want.

However, I just search "antiques forum" (http://www.google.com/search?q=antiques+forum&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) in Google and see quite a few results. Probably more of your customers than fellow business owners, but I would think there are going to be some business owners there as well.

You may want to think of your customers and peers as two different groups. Your customers are likely using social media of some sort. Maybe not something specific to antiques, but they're likely using social media in general.

You may need to see your peers not specifically as antique dealers, but rather as business owners. Some of us are here. We are your peers even if we don't share the same industry.

[greenoak]

oh definitely....and thats why i like it here.... its very refreshing and expanding to hear you all..we have lots in common.... and i think my views could apply to all kinds of business too......
.of course i always love to hear from aaron who has a store!!!
antique sites are a lot about whats my thing worth.....
im knee deep in christmas right now....coming to a peak on nov 7....i need to talk about store displays with someone ..
ann

[vangogh]

That's where separating customers from peers works. Some, myself included, think forums are part of social media. I guess they're social media 1.0. You can come here and connect with others like Aaron who has a store and while you don't sell the same products you can still help each other.

Extending into other forms of social media here's a site called bizSugar (http://www.bizsugar.com/) that's geared toward social news and voting. I can't claim to know much about it, since I only recently heard about it myself, but the content is geared toward business. It may lean toward the online side of things in some degree simply because online marketers are the ones who are the early adopters of these sites. Still the articles will be about business and many of the people who submit and vote on content will be small business owners.

How can use that to your advantage?

Look through the site and get a feel for the kind of content that the community there likes. Look toward your own business and see if you can write an article about your business that the community of the site might enjoy and find helpful.

Spend time voting for or against the articles submitted. Build a profile for yourself on the site to help brand yourself, your site, your business. Take advantage of any networking features the site has to get to know some of the other members of the community.

Do you have to do the above? Not at all. There are many roads to success. Social media is only one of those ways, but it's becoming an increasingly more important way as more and more people are spending time interacting with various sites. If you can maintain a presence on a few of those sites you stand a chance of gaining new customers, links into your site, branding, general visibility, and even new friends

[Spider]

Here's a suggestion for you Ann. You could start your own storeowner community site, but then you'd have to get into the technicalities or hire someone to do it for you, and then build traffic.

Better suggestion is to find a more general business site, or a site that caters to various bricks-and-mortar businesses, and carve out your own clique. With a bit of luck and encouragement, you might even get the webmaster to create a forum on their board devoted to your subjects.

Inc Talk is one such - Inc Talk Business Forum - Start and Grow Your Business (http://www.inctalk.com/)

Of course, Small-Business-Forum.net is a general business forum and only leanig towards the tchnical side of things because it is a new site started by techies.

Whichever approach you take will still require promotion on your part. Start e-mailing all your countrparts in other cities - the people you would like to commune with - and invite them to join the forum of your choice. Tell them who you are, what you do, why you want to communicate with them and what you and they can gain from talking with similar business owners on a regular basis. IOW, form your own little clique on someone else's board.

I'm sure the organizers of Small-Business-Forum.net would welcome the opportunity to expand their membership and offer help to you to do that.

[greenoak]

nice idea ...but im way to busy...and way too , well what do you call it, to want to be a moderator..
..ive looked at inc..but not that part.....thanks for that link....
biz sugar...sounds interesting too.....thanks...
im not a manager, or vice pres, or climbing the corporate ladder, rather an owner....i think i must be in a pretty small group online anyway....lots of the ones i know are guys who dont even surf the internet and never heard of blogs...especially the ones id like to hear from, the ones with more than a couple of years under their belts......... thats probably lots the problem.... ...
its good here...and we all have customers and suppliers ..in some form...

[vangogh]

I don't think we lean toward the technical because the forum was started by techies. If you look at the forums here with the most threads and posts you'll notice the most active ones are the non technical ones. If there's any kind of tech leaning it's because the more technical people here are more active.

If you want more non technical business talk start more threads that are geared toward what you want to talk about. It's the community that will determine what conversations are taking place. If the topics you'd like to see discussed aren't happening then start those conversations.

We're basically the same community that was on the old SBF a few months back and no one ever thought it was too techie there. All we did was add a couple more places where people with tech leanings could talk, because all the tech threads were lumped into one forum there. That hardly makes this forum techie. And again if you want to see conversations on a topic just start the conversation.

[greenoak]

sorry, i didnt mean to sound critical .......i dont find anything wrong here....and real glad to be part of it....i think other stores would get lots of great info on here.... ...
....i would come here first to get feedback on any interenet parts of our business, and the other parts too...... its good , since even for me a whole lot of business comes thru the internet..and i want to push out into the internet more....and really apppreciate your feedback.....
.i dont think i would start a thread on here about my main problem for tomorrow...what furniture layouts to put where for the best christmas displays.....
i found some great retail links thru that sugar site...
ann

[vangogh]

Ann I didn't take anything you said as being critical.

I'm glad the bizSugar site led you to some good info. I haven't had a chance to look through their site, but I had come across is not long ago and thought it might be worth posting here.