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Ronpfid
04-21-2014, 02:21 PM
Hey folks, wondering if you guys have a sec to click on our 2 sites and give me feedback on how it looks, how it strikes you etc. I do office machine service & repair and we sell toners, inks and ribbons. I tried to make our main site simple but 'get the message out', and our eshop have the message in the center about discounts you get if you buy your toners and such through us.
Any of you that have printers, copiers, fax machines etc., would seeing this make you consider using us for service or supplies? We are just a local company so just targeting our area but would love to know what we have right and what we have wrong.

(I put the links in my signature so ppl can just click and see)

Thanks for any thoughts!
Ron

Wozcreative
04-21-2014, 06:09 PM
The website in general looks home made, like you did not hire a designer to put it together. Do you think your audience (businesses) will be comfortable buying from you?

1) Quite a bit of the information on the first website looks like it is a link, but it isn't. This is misleading.

2) Why do you have a website counter? It's not 2001 anymore. I had those when I was 15 and liked to show my friends how many people went to my site. You are a business and ads no value to customers knowing how many (or lack of) people go to your site.

3) The icons consist of 3 different styles (Photography, 3D model, Flat Vector).... why do you not design icons that all match the same style for brand consistency?

4) Why is the text so small? It's been known that 16pt sizes are more easier to read.

5) It's not mobile compatible

6) When I click on any of the pages it doesn't tell me which page on the navigation I am on. Theres no proper titles either.

I can go on and add more details but it's all issues that an educated designer would already know. Your best bet is to invest the money into a proper website and not DIY it yourself.

With poorly designed websites like this, my question is always "Why bother even putting a website together?"

I'm a firm believer in "If you're going to do it, do it right, or not at all."

Ronpfid
04-21-2014, 10:44 PM
Thanks for the feedback, I will have to fix all that myself, no money for a designer.
But really appreciate knowing at least what to start on :)

Ronpfid
04-22-2014, 02:31 PM
The website in general looks home made, like you did not hire a designer to put it together. Do you think your audience (businesses) will be comfortable buying from you?

Many do, but need more, that's why I appreciate the feedback :)


1) Quite a bit of the information on the first website looks like it is a link, but it isn't. This is misleading.

Do you mean the middle area looks like links? Like where it lists what we do?


2) Why do you have a website counter? It's not 2001 anymore. I had those when I was 15 and liked to show my friends how many people went to my site. You are a business and ads no value to customers knowing how many (or lack of) people go to your site.

LOL, I added it so I could see the visitor number, but if it looks cheesy, now gone


3) The icons consist of 3 different styles (Photography, 3D model, Flat Vector).... why do you not design icons that all match the same style for brand consistency?

Fixed, deleted ugly graphics and changed that area


4) Why is the text so small? It's been known that 16pt sizes are more easier to read.

bigger now


5) It's not mobile compatible

1&1 just released a mobile setup, still have to do that but will


6) When I click on any of the pages it doesn't tell me which page on the navigation I am on. Theres no proper titles either.

Fixed the font and color changes for each page in upper tab. Page titles, like at the top I should have?




With poorly designed websites like this, my question is always "Why bother even putting a website together?"

I'm a firm believer in "If you're going to do it, do it right, or not at all."

Well... I've gotten a decent amount of business from the site, so no site at all would definitely be worse, better is better, but none is zero :)

But, I did a bunch of your suggestions, still messing with it, is this at least better?
Thanks much!

Wozcreative
04-22-2014, 03:30 PM
I saw the new update on the home page.. what screams at me now is that you put a whole paragraph of text and contact info in an image. Google can't use that precious content to search/pull your website up from.

You also just made the text bold instead of bigger on the home page. It's now fatter and still difficult to read.

The word "Makes" should be "brands"... I thought you actually make HP, Canon and Brother printers...

Why is contact not in the navigation bar?

Why isn't policy in the footer area where it doesn't scare off people?

Service and repair is all 1 image... you're hurting your website's SEO.

You have different fonts, styles colors and sizes on all the pages

Why don't you show a telephone number or address on your contact page?

Ronpfid
04-22-2014, 04:07 PM
Thanks for checking again,


I saw the new update on the home page.. what screams at me now is that you put a whole paragraph of text and contact info in an image. Google can't use that precious content to search/pull your website up from.

I was looking at my competitor's websites, they all have almost everything in images so I thought screw it, I can't have nice fonts AND use the editor, it's either looks good, or use their fonts. I dont have html access with my package so I'd rather have it look good. Also, everything I need for SEO is in actual text and in the SEO sections for each page.


You also just made the text bold instead of bigger on the home page. It's now fatter and still difficult to read.
wow, it's very readable on my 20 inch screen, do you have a really small screen?
But, I did increase it from 10 point to the max 12 it will let me increase it to for a paragraph


The word "Makes" should be "brands"... I thought you actually make HP, Canon and Brother printers...
Changed it to brands. Makes is technically correct... makes and models, just like with cars, Dodge is the make, Dakota would be the model, but brands works too


Why is contact not in the navigation bar?
Now it is


Why isn't policy in the footer area where it doesn't scare off people?
Cause I didn't know it WAS scary lol. I moved it


Service and repair is all 1 image... you're hurting your website's SEO.
See above


You have different fonts, styles colors and sizes on all the pages
Yes, still messing with it to make it even


Why don't you show a telephone number or address on your contact page?
Cause I didn't have a contact page :) But now I do.

Harold Mansfield
04-22-2014, 04:57 PM
I don't know what site you're both talking about, but if both sites in the footer do the same thing, this one PCT Supplies (http://pctserviceseshop.com/index.php) starts off far better than the other and is at least workable to get up to speed. I'm not even sure if the other can be fixed. It goes wrong in a lot of different ways notwithstanding that it's a ".biz".



Important text on images? Not a good idea for many, many reasons.
Header images. Not good. Almost unreadable.
Font is too small. If that's the biggest you can make it, that would be a deal breaker for me.


I was looking at my competitor's websites, they all have almost everything in images so I thought screw it,
Just because someone else does it doesn't mean that it works for them or is the best way to do it. Or that it will work for you.
Don't copy. Lead.


I can't have nice fonts AND use the editor, it's either looks good, or use their fonts.

I dont have html access with my package so I'd rather have it look good.

These statements are enough for me to know this is not the website solution that is going to work for me. If you can't build a quality website that is going to give you the professionalism and control that you need to give yourself a fighting chance, dump it and stop wasting money on a site builder.

You already have hosting, and a URL. WordPress is free. Woo Commerce is free.
A decent WordPress Ecommerce theme is about $55 or less away.
What are you paying monthly for the site builder?

Ronpfid
04-22-2014, 07:59 PM
starts off far better than the other and is at least workable to get up to speed. I'm not even sure if the other can be fixed. It goes wrong in a lot of different ways notwithstanding that it's a ".biz".

One is my eshop, the other one, that I'm working on with you guys, is my website.
I know, they didn't have .com back when I got this site. Hate to switch and lose my google standings..




Important text on images? Not a good idea for many, many reasons.
Header images. Not good. Almost unreadable.
Font is too small. If that's the biggest you can make it, that would be a deal breaker for me.

nothing important in the images, that text is just for show. I have all the key words in each pages SEO and in the actual text that's on there.
Header image, that big read banner on the top? I can redo that one
Got the font bigger, stupid webbuilder, argh. Had to fix each line one at a time in each paragraph so it would let me






You already have hosting, and a URL. WordPress is free. Woo Commerce is free.
A decent WordPress Ecommerce theme is about $55 or less away.
What are you paying monthly for the site builder?

I pay 14.99 a month for the hosting with the built in web editor.
What is Wordpress?
If I move though, I'll lose my SEO, took a while for me to work my way up in google search. .. :(

I know I'll never get it as good as you web developers can do, mainly I was wondering how it looked as far as getting our message across to a customer.

question, I have been doing some looking, I found this place http://thefuturebuzz.com/2008/07/30/25-examples-of-clean-effective-and-beautiful-web-design/ they are posting what they consider to be the best websites. I noticed all of them have small fonts on them. I have mine really big now, do these ones they are posting look too small to you guys too? their headers are big but the main text is like 10 point?

Harold Mansfield
04-22-2014, 08:48 PM
question, I have been doing some looking, I found this place 25 Examples of Clean, Effective And Beautiful Web Design (http://thefuturebuzz.com/2008/07/30/25-examples-of-clean-effective-and-beautiful-web-design/) they are posting what they consider to be the best websites. I noticed all of them have small fonts on them. I have mine really big now, do these ones they are posting look too small to you guys too? their headers are big but the main text is like 10 point?
That article is from 2008. A lot has changed in 6 years.

Ronpfid
04-22-2014, 09:09 PM
OK, well mine are big enough that I myself think it looks dorky, but if that's what's popular then I'll leave em big.
I'm really looking more for feedback on content, if it would make someone call us for a service call, getting business is what it's all about. I know myself, I don't leave a website if the font is a bit small etc. Maybe I should ask in a different area here?, I think I'm getting more developing feedback (fonts, pictures, etc.) and so forth, really want info. and help with how a consumer would see it, what would catch their attention and make them want to trust and use us for service.
I do appreciate all the 'looks' tweeks though, it's at least better looks wise then it was yesterday

Harold Mansfield
04-22-2014, 09:35 PM
OK, well mine are big enough that I myself think it looks dorky, but if that's what's popular then I'll leave em big.
I'm really looking more for feedback on content, if it would make someone call us for a service call, getting business is what it's all about. I know myself, I don't leave a website if the font is a bit small etc. Maybe I should ask in a different area here?, I think I'm getting more developing feedback (fonts, pictures, etc.) and so forth, really want info. and help with how a consumer would see it, what would catch their attention and make them want to trust and use us for service.
I do appreciate all the 'looks' tweeks though, it's at least better looks wise then it was yesterday

Yes, we are nit picking elements when the overall issue is the website as a whole. No, I do not think anyone would look on the site as favorable, credible or trustworthy and I don't think it will work to attract any business. I know that's tough to hear, but it really just needs to be better overall if you're expecting people to pick up the phone or put down a credit card.

I can appreciate the fact that you are learning. Don't ever stop. That is going to serve you very well into the future. However, while you are learning, if it is your desire to get this site up and running in a way to give you a fighting chance...you either need to hire someone, or pick a more robust platform that will allow you to drop a premium template in that is already mostly designed and can be ready to rock and roll with good content, images and a few tweaks.A

You're busting your head against the wall trying to make this substandard platform into something good, instead of just starting with the right tool for the job.

Ronpfid
04-22-2014, 10:25 PM
Yes, we are nit picking elements when the overall issue is the website as a whole. No, I do not think anyone would look on the site as favorable, credible or trustworthy and I don't think it will work to attract any business. I know that's tough to hear, but it really just needs to be better overall if you're expecting people to pick up the phone or put down a credit card.

I can appreciate the fact that you are learning. Don't ever stop. That is going to serve you very well into the future. However, while you are learning, if it is your desire to get this site up and running in a way to give you a fighting chance...you either need to hire someone, or pick a more robust platform that will allow you to drop a premium template in that is already mostly designed and can be ready to rock and roll with good content, images and a few tweaks.A

You're busting your head against the wall trying to make this substandard platform into something good, instead of just starting with the right tool for the job.

Hey again,

I've actually had the site running for 5 years and getting customers just want more, thanks for the help, cheers

Here's the competition, I think my site is a bit better?

http://www.apexofficesystems.com
http://microcenters.sharepoint.com/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.nwotech.com

billbenson
04-22-2014, 10:39 PM
Hey again,

I've actually had the site running for 5 years and getting customers just want more, thanks for the help, cheers

Contrary to popular belief, lousy sites can still make money. Of course a good site will make more.

Wozcreative
04-22-2014, 11:07 PM
Your competitor's sites are built about 8 years ago. You'd think if they made much money they'd update it to current web standards by now :confused:

Harold Mansfield
04-23-2014, 11:05 AM
Hey again,

I've actually had the site running for 5 years and getting customers just want more, thanks for the help, cheers

Here's the competition, I think my site is a bit better?

Home Page (http://www.apexofficesystems.com)
Home (http://microcenters.sharepoint.com/Pages/default.aspx)
Northwest Office Technologies (http://www.nwotech.com)

Yeah, those sites suck. They are severely outdated. But if that's all there is to choose from in the area, then I can see where you all would make a little money.
They are definitely beatable, at least online. If THAT's the competition I would stop using them as an example to emulate and look at simular companies in a larger market and emulate them.

I look at your competition and all I see is opportunity. But not if you just shoot for doing the same thing that they are doing.

Ronpfid
04-23-2014, 11:24 AM
Interesting points! hey last question, can either of you post a couple links of sites that you think look right so I can at least see what makes a nice looking site? I'm really having trouble visualizing :)

Wozcreative
04-23-2014, 11:35 AM
Interesting points! hey last question, can either of you post a couple links of sites that you think look right so I can at least see what makes a nice looking site? I'm really having trouble visualizing :)

I don't think that will help you. Since you don't have a designer's eye what you will end up trying to do is copy from a bunch of websites and make it look like frankenstein. 1&1 doesn't have the capabilities of making it look good anyway. Their platform is for hobbyist's and not for professional businesses.

Have a look at these professional wordpress templates which are on current web standards you can use if you choose to get away from 1&1: 1100+ Professional WordPress Themes & Corporate WP Templates | ThemeForest (http://themeforest.net/category/wordpress/corporate)

Harold Mansfield
04-23-2014, 11:40 AM
I just did a quick search of some local companies and unbelievably many are just as bad. Actually horrible. Is it an industry thing like real estate agents and dog breeders?

I did find a couple that were better than most:


A-1 Office Machine Company - Copier and Printer Repairs and Services. New and Used Office Equipment Sales, Leasing, and Rental Solutions. (http://www.a-1office.com/)
Copier Exchange | Defining Technology | (702) 538-8882 | Las Vegas, NV | Authorized Dealers for Toshiba | Copier Service, Copier Sales, Lease Copiers (http://www.thecopierexchange.com/)
Printer Repair - Las Vegas, Henderson, Clark County | Kortek Solutions (http://www.korteksolutions.com/services-solutions/printer-repair/) (This one could have been very decent if it had at least some graphics)


It's not so much that they are good websites just because they are bright and loud, but they at least give me confidence that they have the services that I'm looking for. I would at least call them to investigate.

Wozcreative
04-23-2014, 11:58 AM
Well there's the problem and how you can differentiate yourself from the competition! Get a good quality high end design done, it can be done cheaper but takes a lot of time and patience and learning.

I had a good example of a niche market that I worked for where all the competition (they bred feeder insects) had really outdated websites. I had totally revamped the look and feel of the company. I not only made the brand look a lot more pleasant (insects are not nice to look at), but I also made sure that only the important information is shown to the consumer at the right time when they are searching the website. I made sure that the purchase was an easy step online and that they knew very quickly what they were buying and how much shipping costs.
I made it such a pleasant experience that their customer contacted ME personally letting me know just how much they liked the website and that they chose to spend more on shipping with this company rather than their competitors because it was just worth the ease of use. Amazing! That's the stuff I live for.

The competition basically had websites that look like they've been developed 8 years ago and have stopped.

Oh by the way, that client also had 1 competitor and 1 related industry business contact me as well to rebrand their old website too. Good design sells, but it's difficult unless you've spent over 10 years doing it day in and day out.

Anyway the point of my long story is that you have an easy way of differentiating yourself from your competition. It's screaming you in the face, take it!

Ronpfid
04-23-2014, 12:09 PM
I just did a quick search of some local companies and unbelievably many are just as bad. Actually horrible. Is it an industry thing like real estate agents and dog breeders?

I did find a couple that were better than most:


A-1 Office Machine Company - Copier and Printer Repairs and Services. New and Used Office Equipment Sales, Leasing, and Rental Solutions. (http://www.a-1office.com/)
Copier Exchange | Defining Technology | (702) 538-8882 | Las Vegas, NV | Authorized Dealers for Toshiba | Copier Service, Copier Sales, Lease Copiers (http://www.thecopierexchange.com/)
Printer Repair - Las Vegas, Henderson, Clark County | Kortek Solutions (http://www.korteksolutions.com/services-solutions/printer-repair/) (This one could have been very decent if it had at least some graphics)


It's not so much that they are good websites just because they are bright and loud, but they at least give me confidence that they have the services that I'm looking for. I would at least call them to investigate.

Thanks, I get the idea now, I just needed a feel for what people 'not in my industry' views as attractive. I really also like that one in las vegas. One thing I noticed, they all have 10-12 point fonts, I'm finding 10 point on almost every big website where they do like their 'write up' and so forth. So big font for links and lists, but smaller must be ok for information?

I agree, I've been looking at lots of websites for my industry and that's what I've been basing mine on, thought they were 'what was cool' :)
Thanks so much for posting those!

Ronpfid
04-23-2014, 12:12 PM
I don't think that will help you. Since you don't have a designer's eye what you will end up trying to do is copy from a bunch of websites and make it look like frankenstein. 1&1 doesn't have the capabilities of making it look good anyway. Their platform is for hobbyist's and not for professional businesses.

Have a look at these professional wordpress templates which are on current web standards you can use if you choose to get away from 1&1: 1100+ Professional WordPress Themes & Corporate WP Templates | ThemeForest (http://themeforest.net/category/wordpress/corporate)

Oh cool, OK, those are really cool. 1&1 has templates too, Website designs pre-assembled by professionals (http://website.1and1.com/website-templates), maybe I just chose the wrong one and tweeked it till it died :)
Thanks!!

Harold Mansfield
04-23-2014, 12:57 PM
I don't think that will help you. Since you don't have a designer's eye what you will end up trying to do is copy from a bunch of websites and make it look like frankenstein. 1&1 doesn't have the capabilities of making it look good anyway. Their platform is for hobbyist's and not for professional businesses.


This is good advice. You have to realize your limitations at the moment and use the correct tool for the job to get you where you want to be. Stop thinking you're going to learn 7-10 years of design and marketing in a few days or weeks. Site builder templates from companies like 1&1 are crap. They're just the basics and the designs are outdated and functionality limited.

If all you needed was a temporary placeholder site with basic information I'd say go ahead and use it. But you are not going to get the business website you need using a site builder from a mediocre hosting company.

Ronpfid
04-23-2014, 01:30 PM
Just trying to do the best I can with what I have at the moment, :)

Harold Mansfield
04-23-2014, 01:51 PM
Just trying to do the best I can with what I have at the moment, :)

Understandable. We're just letting you know that you have better and affordable options. You don't have to struggle with what you are using.

Wozcreative
04-23-2014, 01:58 PM
Oh cool, OK, those are really cool. 1&1 has templates too, Website designs pre-assembled by professionals (http://website.1and1.com/website-templates), maybe I just chose the wrong one and tweeked it till it died :)
Thanks!!

Those are outdated though.
You're beating a dead horse using 1&1 for business purposes.

Ronpfid
04-24-2014, 02:24 PM
Hey again,

Yes, I do understand, I will move eventually when I have the time and brain power to read up on SEO with the other sites, and actually go through that. I really do appreciate the advice on all this.

I completely re-did our template, etc. Still have to fix the other pages, but the main page I based on the ideas, suggestions and samples you guys provided. I'm sure there is a lot you guys would do differently, but to me, this at least looks a LOT better. You guys really opened my eyes. It's kinda like that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and you have to train your eye for what looks good on websites, force my taste to align and mature with what actually looks good and not cheesy so to speak.

I was thinking, websites are text and graphics strategically placed, at least I can do the best I can with the best template they offer. does this at least look better then my original?

Cheers!

jamesray50
04-24-2014, 03:38 PM
I wouldn't call you. I didn't see a phone number at the top of the page. If I have to hunt for a phone number then I go somewhere else, but that's just me. I did see the phone number at the bottom. Why would you offer your services for free? I may offer reduced or free services, but I don't advertise that on my website.

Wozcreative
04-24-2014, 04:18 PM
Some comments on the new site:

- Your columns are far too tight.. the comfortable reading width of a column should be no less than 7 words on one line.
- Your navigation jumps around in size when hovering making it look buggy
- The blue banner at the bottom naming all the brands is difficult to read
- You should have a "Home" on your navigation menu
- Where is your "about" page to help me learn about who your company is?
- Contact page - you have a watermark on those 2 images on each side of the page
- If I accidentally end up on your "Printer sales" page, why don't I see a phone number instead you have me click contact to get it?
- You said you already have many customers, why not use testimonials?
- Still a small font issue
- Your map needs to be clear as to the locations you service
- Contact page - why don't you have any benefits listed on that page, enticing users to buy from you? Don't fill it up with random images. Think about what will convince people to contact you... speak to them.
- Where is the detail about how you do your services? What are the steps? How long do I have to wait?

jamesray50
04-24-2014, 06:06 PM
This is excellent advise everyone is giving you. When I started my business over 3 years ago I made an attempt at creating my own website. I asked the members of this forum to critique it. I received lots of advice on what I needed to do to make it better. I attempted to follow all the advice. But, it was taking me forever to do it. I am not a creative person and really did not want to spend my time trying to learn how to do something I really didn't want to know how to do. I ended up having a new site developed by Harold, a member of this forum. And I am so glad I did. Not only did it free up my time to work on what I liked doing I got a great website that I receive compliments on all the time. I depend on my website to generate business so it was very important that my website was a professional looking site. And it is not a cookie cutter website. It is unique. There is another forum I am a member of, it's for bookkeepers, accountants, cpas, ea's and anyone working in my industry. People are all the time asking what to do about websites. My website is mentioned frequently as a website they should strive to have theirs similar to.

I guess my advise is that if you really don't know how to build a website that will attract visitors, figure out a way to have someone who specializes in that do it for you.

Ronpfid
04-28-2014, 02:24 PM
Thanks guys, am fixing your points, for now this'll do till I can change hosts, thanks so very much!

Harold Mansfield
04-28-2014, 02:49 PM
Thanks guys, am fixing your points, for now this'll do till I can change hosts, thanks so very much!

I'm not necessarily bagging on the host. I'm not a fan of 1and1 but if it's working for you keep it. It's the tools that you are using to create your website. You're not limited to just what they have preloaded. You can install WordPress on pretty much any host. You can install it on a folder of your existing domain just to practice with it.

You don't need to make any sweeping expensive changes. I'm suggesting that you are least install it somewhere where you can play with it. You may find that you want to proceed and construct a new site altogether. Or you may not like it at all. You won't know until you try it.

But your existing site doesn't' need to go down while you do that.

Ronpfid
04-28-2014, 03:04 PM
I'm not necessarily bagging on the host. I'm not a fan of 1and1 but if it's working for you keep it. It's the tools that you are using to create your website. You're not limited to just what they have preloaded. You can install WordPress on pretty much any host. You can install it on a folder of your existing domain just to practice with it.

You don't need to make any sweeping expensive changes. I'm suggesting that you are least install it somewhere where you can play with it. You may find that you want to proceed and construct a new site altogether. Or you may not like it at all. You won't know until you try it.

But your existing site doesn't' need to go down while you do that.

OH ok, cool, didn't know that, thanks!