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barcared11
04-07-2014, 08:57 PM
My site is PriceMane (http://www.pricemane.com:)

The site's is a consumer product search engine. Users type in the item they want and they get a search result that will tell them the location and price of that particular item. The link for each search result will go to the business's profile and catalog.

Everything is based off of the catalogs businesses create through their profile (name of item and price of each).

Is this a good premise ? Do you guys think the site will make lives of consumers much easier ?

Harold Mansfield
04-10-2014, 08:25 AM
Is this a good premise ? Do you guys think the site will make lives of consumers much easier ?

Google already has this functionality.

Wozcreative
04-10-2014, 10:19 AM
The design is bad and the idea already exists. What are you bringing to the table that is different?

barcared11
04-10-2014, 01:24 PM
Not exactly. Google (or better yet, any general search engine) profiles related businesses to your search, while Pricemane profiles consumer products. What does that mean ?
It means that if you want to know more information on a particular item you have to click each individual link that goes to that business's website. This can be time consuming and frustrating for many consumers.
Pricemane works backwards. You type in the item you want to search and in return you get a list of all related consumer products in your area. All the information is available in front of you; including the price, name, and location of that item.
I have tried the shopping categories (in google, yahoo, etc) and it is ridiculous. They do not appeal to all businesses (they especially don't inform you of products you can buy locally), in addition no one uses these search tools for general purposes.

Harold Mansfield
04-10-2014, 02:31 PM
Not exactly. Google (or better yet, any general search engine) profiles related businesses to your search, while Pricemane profiles consumer products. What does that mean ?
It means that if you want to know more information on a particular item you have to click each individual link that goes to that business's website. This can be time consuming and frustrating for many consumers.
Pricemane works backwards. You type in the item you want to search and in return you get a list of all related consumer products in your area. All the information is available in front of you; including the price, name, and location of that item.
I have tried the shopping categories (in google, yahoo, etc) and it is ridiculous. They do not appeal to all businesses (they especially don't inform you of products you can buy locally), in addition no one uses these search tools for general purposes.

First off, I'm not here to be discouraging, but you said you wanted perspective so here it is.

You said this was a price comparison search engine, not a product comparison engine. For it to be a product comparison engine, the user would need to type in multiple products or very general search queries. Either way, there are quite a few product AND price comparison engines out there already.

I'm here to tell you that if I type in a product name in Google, I'm going to get a slew of results that show me that product on different websites and at different prices. If I go deeper and click the "shopping" link, I'm going to see even more.

Furthermore, I have my Google search set to the United States. If I set it locally, I will definitely see who in my area carries that product. It's been like that for years.

One of the big flaws in the system is that you say results are based on businesses inputting catalog items into their profile. To be honest, I don't see the convenience to the user over what is already out there, that would make a business want to spend time inputting what could be hundreds or thousands of products into yet another website.

Also, you said this

They do not appeal to all businesses

So it sounds like to me you've identified a particular problem in a niche industry, and not an overall problem for everyone. Regardless of what you say, people do use these tools and many others when they are researching and shopping online. I actually use it almost everyday.

Lastly, Woz hit the nail on the head of your other problem. You're talking about improving on what Google and Yahoo have already done and I suspect your dream is to steal their market share to your service. If that's the case, your design has to be MUCH better. At the moment it is not very good and definitely not good enough for you to steal market share from anyone. You have to up your game and make it easier to use.

WilliamLacombe
04-10-2014, 04:21 PM
First off, I'm not here to be discouraging, but you said you wanted perspective so here it is.

You said this was a price comparison search engine, not a product comparison engine. For it to be a product comparison engine, the user would need to type in multiple products or very general search queries. Either way, there are quite a few product AND price comparison engines out there already.

I'm here to tell you that if I type in a product name in Google, I'm going to get a slew of results that show me that product on different websites and at different prices. If I go deeper and click the "shopping" link, I'm going to see even more.

Furthermore, I have my Google search set to the United States. If I set it locally, I will definitely see who in my area carries that product. It's been like that for years.

One of the big flaws in the system is that you say results are based on businesses inputting catalog items into their profile. To be honest, I don't see the convenience to the user over what is already out there, that would make a business want to spend time inputting what could be hundreds or thousands of products into yet another website.

Also, you said this


So it sounds like to me you've identified a particular problem in a niche industry, and not an overall problem for everyone. Regardless of what you say, people do use these tools and many others when they are researching and shopping online. I actually use it almost everyday.

Lastly, Woz hit the nail on the head of your other problem. You're talking about improving on what Google and Yahoo have already done and I suspect your dream is to steal their market share to your service. If that's the case, your design has to be MUCH better. At the moment it is not very good and definitely not good enough for you to steal market share from anyone. You have to up your game and make it easier to use.

Very well said. The problem with search engines and trying to "create something new" is that your competition invests hundreds of millions of dollars into their R&D departments. You would have to find an idea, develop a design that has an easier usability, and be the first to the idea. The problem is that I am sure you don't have the resources to develop your own search engine nor the time, so you will basically have to use your competitions resources to turn a profit for yourself. If they found this out, and that someone you were profitable, what is to stop them from taking your ideas and using their know-how to take you down. It's a hard reality but it's a struggle that people deal with every day. What I always tell my clients is that before you go out and invest all your time with a product or an idea, make sure that you can either make something better - or - be the first to do something.

Additionally you have results such as Yelp, City Search, Find my Business, etc that are also searching for some of that market share.

I hope you can figure it out though! Keep trying, don't give up on an idea just because it's tough. Make it, test it, make it better. Good luck.

Harold Mansfield
04-10-2014, 04:51 PM
I think you should also do a little more investigation about people's behavior online. You're putting a lot of weight on the fact that product comparison is a problem that needs to be solved. When actually product reviews are the driving factor behind eCommerce purchases. And they are also easy enough to find. Just type in "Review:...." and there ya go.

barcared11
04-10-2014, 06:25 PM
Google (and all the other general search engines) have all the information we need, there is no argument there. I don't have a problem with what the content is but how they are organizing all of it. Search engines are top-heavy when it comes to information, and that is good because users want as much information relayed to them as possible. Google does not give you a list of all the possible items you can buy without some kind of record.
If I want to know the price I need to click on the link that goes to store's website and go through their menu of items, go back and do the same thing. It is a 3-4 step process on any main search engine, on Pricemane it is 1 step. You search for the item you are looking for and you get all the information you need to know about purchasing that item without any further action. So what I am really trying to say is that I am aiming at optimizing convenience on the consumer's part.
I experimented with the idea before building the site. I created a similar site except I manually input all the local consumer items into my database and then I told a couple of people. The first month was slow only 200 hits but after the second month the site had 10,000 hits and in the third month it tripled. The data ensured me that the idea had met some stamp of approval. I closed the site own and started rebuilding.
I also visited the various other price search engines and they operate like any standard store. They choose items they can display to users but not every possible option. Which is another thing I want to point out, any business is permissible (legal of course, lets not get carried away); this includes small businesses, online stores, and even individuals. Search engines provide a lot of information, they just don't organize all their data conveniently for consumers.
As for design, there are improvements going on, and it has not stopped. The site will give members the option to have us set up your catalog free of charge, the site will also enable members to give a link to their main website (part of your profile).
The aim is to provide utilized efficiency and to organize as much information on the most simplest platform (something that Google and all the other search engines seem to lack).

I actually do have a plan down the line that will include a PRS (Positive Review Section), there just needs to be some safe-guards so there won't be any yelp situations(http://finance.yahoo.com/news/christopher-deitz-sues-jane-perez-over-negative-yelp-review-222800638.html).
I am aware of the challenge, I just need support in terms of members, so I can give people who are following me right now what they want.

Harold Mansfield
04-10-2014, 07:47 PM
Google does not give you a list of all the possible items you can buy without some kind of record.
If I want to know the price I need to click on the link that goes to store's website and go through their menu of items, go back and do the same thing. It is a 3-4 step process on any main search engine,
No it's not. It's 2014. You type in a product and you will get results of where that product is and prices.




I experimented with the idea before building the site. I created a similar site except I manually input all the local consumer items into my database and then I told a couple of people. The first month was slow only 200 hits but after the second month the site had 10,000 hits and in the third month it tripled.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't mean "hits" that you actually mean visitors and page views.


The data ensured me that the idea had met some stamp of approval. I closed the site own and started rebuilding.
I also visited the various other price search engines and they operate like any standard store. They choose items they can display to users but not every possible option. Which is another thing I want to point out, any business is permissible (legal of course, lets not get carried away); this includes small businesses, online stores, and even individuals. Search engines provide a lot of information, they just don't organize all their data conveniently for consumers.
As for design, there are improvements going on, and it has not stopped. The site will give members the option to have us set up your catalog free of charge, the site will also enable members to give a link to their main website (part of your profile).
The aim is to provide utilized efficiency and to organize as much information on the most simplest platform (something that Google and all the other search engines seem to lack).

I actually do have a plan down the line that will include a PRS (Positive Review Section), there just needs to be some safe-guards so there won't be any yelp situations(http://finance.yahoo.com/news/christopher-deitz-sues-jane-perez-over-negative-yelp-review-222800638.html).
I am aware of the challenge, I just need support in terms of members, so I can give people who are following me right now what they want.

Doesn't sound like you are really looking for perspective. Sounds like you have it all figured out. As a person who shops online religiously, and who works in the web business, the best I can do is give you my opinion.

I don't find using Google to search out a product as difficult as you're making it out to be. But then again, I shop online A LOT so I'm not normally in the dark about where to find the info I'm looking for, and there are only so many places I'll shop online regardless of what the price is.

But that's just me.

barcared11
04-10-2014, 09:01 PM
I don't think you understand the actual function of the site and how it is different from a conventional search engine. I respect all opinions, good or bad, just as long there is an understanding of what the site is from a general point of view.

Alright well here is an example: kayak.com vs google.com and airplane tickets. On both sites you can search for prices of airplane tickets. Google gives a general search result but users have to dig through each link to get to what they want (website of that service/airline). On kayak you search for your destination and you get the prices of airplane tickets from various airlines. Kayak ('search one and done') is popular because you only need to input your destination and that's it, all your necessary information will present itself. This is what I am trying to say for pricemane.

I am trying to appeal towards average consumers/users. So if you are not trying to save money, don't mind the time and invested effort to get almost the same thing then the site is not for you. Because here is the thing, when we look for anything online we filter our search. Each time that search is a failure we have to filter again and again. Why not minimize your search by taking out as much filtration as possible. That, in and of itself, is a goal for any average consumer. So if I have not done that then I am not fulfilling the premise of my site.
And shopping online is fine, it is one of the most available services on the net. But would it not be good to know you are not spending too much on something you could have gotten for a much cheaper price from a local business/other type of business ?
So just one question: what kind of web business do you work in ?
(and just fyi: those were hits not pageviews/visitors, but it does not matter anymore )

Harold Mansfield
04-10-2014, 09:37 PM
I don't think you understand the actual function of the site and how it is different from a conventional search engine.
That is totally possible because I'm not seeing why I need this.

Simply it for me. Let's say I'm going to buy a new tablet online.
I type "Google Nexus 7" into your website.
What it going to show me?

A list of Every eCommerce site that has a Nexus 7 in stock and for what price?
Or just who in my city has it, and for what price?


So just one question: what kind of web business do you work in ?
I build websites for people and help them with their online marketing.


(and just fyi: those were hits not pageviews/visitors, but it does not matter anymore )
It does if you are basing the popularity of your idea on a unit of measure that doesn't mean anyone was actually using the test website.
Hits are not people.

barcared11
04-11-2014, 01:23 AM
This is what appears for each result on the SERP [Search Engine Results Page]:

Name of the item: Google Nexus 7
Name of the business [which has a link to the business's profile/website and catalog]: '....'
Exact Address: '....'
Price: '....'

Here is a snip of my SERP without the toolbar at the top:458

You will be presented with both options. You will know of any online stores who supply them and any local businesses that may have what you are looking for.

And alright I see, so you help businesses market themselves and create websites ?

I always get confused between the two. I do know that during the test site's 3 month duration I had visits and queries made through the site (those are what the numbers reflect).

Harold Mansfield
04-11-2014, 10:11 AM
You will be presented with both options. You will know of any online stores who supply them and any local businesses that may have what you are looking for.


OK. That may be useful to a lot of people who don't know how to use search. Convenience is a big factor
But again, how do you plan on compiling every product in the world into your search engine?

barcared11
04-11-2014, 08:09 PM
That is the eventual long term goal. Right now I am focusing on trying to get the attention of businesses (both small and online). The main issue is that I need a line of communication/support (which is a huge factor for the beginning of any membership-based site). After that I will work on expanding the site's product line.

Damon the Marketer
04-12-2014, 09:36 AM
Right now I am focusing on trying to get the attention of businesses (both small and online).

And there's your number one problem!

barcared11
04-12-2014, 07:47 PM
Ok, how do you think I should go about doing this ? I am open to suggestions.

All small businesses need to do is sign and then they have the option of having us setup their catalog (getting all their items and prices listed).

It is a quick and easy way for any consumer to find a product and businesses will enjoy the exposure of their products (because users/consumers will have an easier time finding what they need). It is essentially a win-win situation (at least that is what I am getting based on the people I am talking to).

Wozcreative
04-12-2014, 10:24 PM
Ok, how do you think I should go about doing this ? I am open to suggestions.

All small businesses need to do is sign and then they have the option of having us setup their catalog (getting all their items and prices listed).

It is a quick and easy way for any consumer to find a product and businesses will enjoy the exposure of their products (because users/consumers will have an easier time finding what they need). It is essentially a win-win situation (at least that is what I am getting based on the people I am talking to).

Why have you setup the account? They should easily hook up their POS or quickbooks account so they have updated prices and products at all times.

barcared11
04-13-2014, 12:11 AM
The website is designed so that whenever you make changes (or enter new items) to your catalog it will directly reflect in the search results. There are various kinds of POS and it would be unsafe (and even unconventional to some) to hook all these accounts up to one platform.

Harold Mansfield
04-13-2014, 10:55 AM
Ok, how do you think I should go about doing this ? I am open to suggestions.
You can't be asking this question at this stage. You've already made "exposure" one of the benefits to businesses who sign up. How you plan on getting them that exposure should already have been figured out. You should at least have an idea.

I will say to do what you say you want to do, I don't see how you get the exposure and usage that you need to make this successful without a long term, large to medium scale advertising campaign. If businesses don't see you trying to attract users like the big dogs, it's not going to be worth their while to waste time signing up.


All small businesses need to do is sign and then they have the option of having us setup their catalog (getting all their items and prices listed).
You say that as if the internet is this new thing and businesses don't get bombarded with one new thing after another to sign up for.


It is a quick and easy way for any consumer to find a product and businesses will enjoy the exposure of their products (because users/consumers will have an easier time finding what they need). It is essentially a win-win situation (at least that is what I am getting based on the people I am talking to).

You are purely looking at this from your point of view. Everyone feels like their idea is the best thing since sliced bread, is 100% original and that people would be foolish not to use their services. And you should have that confidence. But you also need to look at it from the businesses side of things and as a user. Right now you are only looking at it one way. The way you want people to see it. That's quite dfferent from the way people actually see it.

Again, I have to keep reiterating that I've never noticed this huge problem finding and comparing products online that you keep saying exists. And I am one who shops for EVERYTHING online. Everything. I buy something online at least once a week.

Maybe once you get it fined tuned it will end up being the best comparative product search engine ever. And maybe I'm not your target market because I don't have the problem comparing products and prices, or finding local businesses that carry them that you say exists for everyone else and is the problem that you are solving.

I do highly recommend that you do your best to visualize this from the users end. As someone who knows nothing about you, has no interest in blowing smoke up your butt, who aren't friends, and are skeptical of everything online. Look at it with that person's eyes and I can guarantee it will help you make it better and create something that people may actually use.

Wozcreative
04-13-2014, 12:28 PM
The website is designed so that whenever you make changes (or enter new items) to your catalog it will directly reflect in the search results. There are various kinds of POS and it would be unsafe (and even unconventional to some) to hook all these accounts up to one platform.

Why unsafe and unconventional? So I have to input all my items into my own POS and then go to your system and do it too? You think as a business owner I have that kind of time? You think as a business owner I have the time to check if you've done it correctly if you're the one doing it? Automation is much better.. faster and doesn't cause for errors.

But of course, you are going to have to put in a lot more work to do this. Your comment basically tells me you are not willing to start with the most common POS Systems and incorporate their API to make it work with your system. It's a quick and dirty project for you and not a long-term one.

So far it looks like all you've done was build a general site that shows prices on some products. You haven't:

• Created a marketing strategy
• Created an easy to understand explanation of your business idea (Look how long it took you to explain it)
• Theres no professional branding or UI/UX thought into your site (Everything about the structure of the navigation is wrong based on usability and consistency)
---This is stuff that I do 24/7.. theres a whole SLEW of things that's wrong with the design of it.
• You haven't included any automated process for signup (Your contact form is broken too).
• Too many grammatical errors even in your "Info and contact" page. Seriously? You can't even fix one paragraph?
• And FFS you used COMIC SANS and a SPLASH PAGE! Who does that in 2014?

All you've done is built a piece of software that pulls information from a database you input manually. That's it. You don't care about the end user, let alone care about the people who will be utilizing it for their business. You can't just build 4 walls and then ask "Ok how do i sell this house?" without doing the actual research.

barcared11
04-13-2014, 05:31 PM
Thank You Harold Mansfield, that is actually really good advice. The issue is that I am doing a lot of reading and studying, but I don't know a lot of business owners personally. So getting an opinion from their angle is extremely important for me. I just have one question: what can a small scale site such as mine do for a marketing campaign that appeals to businesses ?

At Woz.
I am aware the fonts are not very appealing, but I am just wondering on what you mean by:

Everything about the structure of the navigation is wrong based on usability and consistency. Is it hard getting around the site? People who have tried it have not complained so far ? (Perhaps give me a link to a sample site that you think is a good example).

The contact page does work, it takes users to both the site's facebook and twitter page.

I never said that I am 'not willing.' I am simply looking out for the security of users (do you know how many stories I have heard about API exploitation). Web companies already spend huge amounts of money to keep their data safe. And to be honest with you there is work on this project, I just don't want to leave users with no option (creating catalogs). Just one question: do most businesses use POS ?

And just another thing I want to point out. Do you guys think businesses would approve of the actual idea? Maybe I was wrong in assuming businesses will react to what will satisfy the average consumer (because consumers like the idea). The site is at a very early stage so I understand why you would despise the design of the site. Right now the site is focused on businesses that want to get consumers better exposed to the products they sell with little to no effort from the consumer's end (compared to using conventional search engines). If businesses support that premise then that is all I need at this point. If businesses hate the idea then I can't go off any real focus. However if businesses do like the idea,then I am going to take every suggestion out there and work on building the most optimal system to service every user (and that includes incorporating POS).

Harold Mansfield
04-14-2014, 04:05 PM
And just another thing I want to point out. Do you guys think businesses would approve of the actual idea? Maybe I was wrong in assuming businesses will react to what will satisfy the average consumer (because consumers like the idea). The site is at a very early stage so I understand why you would despise the design of the site. Right now the site is focused on businesses that want to get consumers better exposed to the products they sell with little to no effort from the consumer's end (compared to using conventional search engines).
Maybe you don't hear yourself, but notice how you keep trying to sell it? Almost convince us that this is a great idea? What you are really assuming is that all you need is a great idea and businesses will come running to you. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Execution is everything.

What you should really be asking yourself is how this benefits businesses better than the marketing, and user experience that they already have entire departments for and sink millions into?

You are making assumptions that businesses will be so excited that you are providing this service to consumers that they are going rush right over and want their products in a side by side comparison against competitors. I'm here to tell you that is not going to be the case in A LOT of instances. People buy for many reasons. Brand Loyalty, Marketing campaigns that speak to them, price, peer endorsements and reviews.

Do you really think Google wants Chrome cast in a side by side comparison with Roku and Amazon's Fire TV? Do you think HP wants the Slate on a website next to the Nexus 7? They'd be a fool to.

I think your idea has aspects worth pursuing, but I don't think it's been thought out clearly with a complete understanding of eCommerce. I don't think expecting businesses to flock to you so that you can provide this for consumers is the way to go. I think your focus should be on consumers alone and find a way to provide these comparisons with or without the blessing of the product makers.

That's just my opinion.

barcared11
04-14-2014, 05:45 PM
No I understand. I am going back to work on a refined design (thanks Woz for letting me know what the shortcomings were) and a system for businesses to incorporate their POS.

Thanks for the insight !