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Jagella
02-23-2009, 10:58 PM
Recently I had a very tough personal experience involving a friend. Without going into too much detail, I'm left feeling betrayed. The experience was painful, and I still feel depressed and stressed over what happened. I'm not sure what's going to happen, and this uncertainty has me on edge.

What may have me most concerned about the whole affair is that I'm dwelling on it so much. I'd prefer to think about things that should be more important. I feel that I'm not spending enough time working toward my goals.

Anyway, how do any of you get over life's speed bumps and stay on focus? Don't get me wrong; I'm hanging in there, and this experience is unlikely to stop me. It's just so hard, though!

Jagella

cbscreative
02-23-2009, 11:25 PM
For me it's faith. Recently, I started working my way through the book of Psalms which I haven't done in a while. Your story of being betrayed by a friend reminds me of some of the things I have read recently. There is one (50 something but not sure exactly which one) where David is betrayed by his best friend. Even though I have not had that particular problem, Psalms has a lot of great stuff about facing tribulation. Even better, it's about overcoming it.

SteveC
02-24-2009, 12:03 AM
Success is the best revenge... be it success in life, success in business, success in oneself, whatever... success is the best revenge of all... and here is a lesson I learnt some years back... your friend may have betrayed you, however he cannot upset you if you choose not to let him.

So choose not to let this upset you and move on... and I know its easier said than done, but success is the greatest revenge of all.

vangogh
02-24-2009, 12:56 AM
Joe first sorry to hear about the experience. I know what's it like to feel betrayed by a friend.

To be honest I just get over it. I wish I could give you some tip or trick, but I've learned over the years it's best to put it behind you. It's understandable to let it get you down and it's ok if you feel that way, but you have to realize that staying down doesn't do you any good. Give yourself permission to feel bad for a day or two, but then get back into focus.

I guess if I do have one tip it's to keep busy. If you keep yourself busy you don't have time to dwell on things and before long you find yourself feeling better. I often dive into work. Sometimes all I need is to read a book on some new programming language I want to learn or perhaps a marketing book and by the time I'm done my head is filled with all sorts of ideas I want to get to.

You know you could try to express your feelings through an illustration or some other creative pursuit. You'll get the feelings out and end up with a nice piece of art in the process. It's a good way to turn negative feelings into something positive.

greenoak
02-24-2009, 06:12 AM
in business, if it was a business thing....i would try and learn from it and get into a mindset where you realize how impossible most partnerships are, the failure rate is huge......make yourself get to where you avoid assumptions and grey areas, make things clear andon paper, and where you can say no to iffy situations and say no in a good way... and dont lend or borrow time or money.......its not a selfish way to go its a clean way...
if its a love and real friendship thing mixed in....vent vent vent..whine and cry....go there .....then try to look ahead not back...and regroup and put your energy where it needs to be ...
ann

huggytree
02-24-2009, 06:51 AM
i agree with the success is the best revenge thing

Blessed
02-24-2009, 09:20 AM
I've found in my life that moving on and "getting over it" is a choice. I can choose to dwell on the situation and be angry, hurt, sad or whatever or I can choose to "get over it" and move on. That doesn't mean that those negative feelings about the situation or sadness over the lost relationship won't sneak up on me occasionally, because they will but what I choose to do when that happens is what really matters.

thx4yrtym
02-24-2009, 09:41 AM
I think forgiving the person(s) is the first step. I'm not suggesting this needs to come from a spiritual place either. Nor do I think you need to tell them you forgive them. I just have found that it helps to forgive them , say it out loud and mean it. What ever you have to do to rationalize it for yourself, do it and then move on.

Best of luck and embrace what ever changes this causes in your life as a fresh beginning.

take care...

Aaron Hats
02-24-2009, 10:41 AM
For me it's faith.

Ditto. For me, it's been nearly a year since I started RCIA in the Catholic Church...life changing. A very supportive wife helps too. :)

Best wishes.

Aaron

KristineS
02-24-2009, 12:52 PM
I just try to stay positive and see the lesson in whatever has happened. I figure no situation is a total loss if I learn something from it.

Sometimes you just have to express the fact that you're hurt too. Write a letter, beat on the bed with a pillow, scream in your car, just let the negative feelings out. It's easier to get past those feelings after you've expressed them.

cbscreative
02-24-2009, 01:32 PM
I would second the forgiveness advice, but I doubt anyone here would be surprised by that. By forgiving, you have the most to gain. Resentment and bitterness poisons the human spirit, and it can and does lead to health problems among other things. The wierd thing is, the person you resent most likely has no remorse and could care less. When you forgive, you are the one who is set free.

I don't think you are the kind of person to hold on and get bitter, Joe, I'm just pointing out that the sooner you forgive, the better off you will be.

I really like the way my pastor's wife puts it. She says, "Unforgiveness is like drinking deadly poison and waiting for the other person to die."

Jagella
02-24-2009, 03:54 PM
For me it's faith. Recently, I started working my way through the book of Psalms which I haven't done in a while. Your story of being betrayed by a friend reminds me of some of the things I have read recently. There is one (50 something but not sure exactly which one) where David is betrayed by his best friend. Even though I have not had that particular problem, Psalms has a lot of great stuff about facing tribulation. Even better, it's about overcoming it.

Religious faith is OK for some problems, Steve, but in this case I know that I need to work it out myself. It's not the first time this kind of thing has happened to me. I made it through it before. I just keep looking for something that holds promise for the future.

I'm not sure why it bothers me so much. I know what people can be like, and you'd think I'd be able to put it all in perspective. I suppose there's a difference between knowing something and feeling something.

Thanks for the response.

Jagella

Jagella
02-24-2009, 06:03 PM
Success is the best revenge... be it success in life, success in business, success in oneself, whatever... success is the best revenge of all...

Well, I'm not out for revenge, but success as a way to avoid being pushed around makes sense. I think in this case my friend didn't respect me, and I believe that may have been a factor in what I believe she did. If I let her know I don't need her, then that may be a way to earn her respect.


and here is a lesson I learnt some years back... your friend may have betrayed you, however he cannot upset you if you choose not to let him.

He's a she which may give you an idea about the situation. ;) But I can't help but be upset. I'm only human.

Thanks for the advice, Steve.

Jagella

Jagella
02-24-2009, 06:15 PM
Joe first sorry to hear about the experience. I know what's it like to feel betrayed by a friend.

Thanks, Steve. I should point out that I'm not sure my friend deliberately betrayed me. The situation is kind of complex. I'm very suspicious of her because I heard a rumor about what she's doing. Even before the rumor I thought she was lying to me.


To be honest I just get over it. I wish I could give you some tip or trick, but I've learned over the years it's best to put it behind you. It's understandable to let it get you down and it's ok if you feel that way, but you have to realize that staying down doesn't do you any good. Give yourself permission to feel bad for a day or two, but then get back into focus.

Well, it may take longer than a couple of days. It would help if I knew for sure what's going on.


If you keep yourself busy you don't have time to dwell on things and before long you find yourself feeling better. I often dive into work. Sometimes all I need is to read a book on some new programming language I want to learn or perhaps a marketing book and by the time I'm done my head is filled with all sorts of ideas I want to get to.

That's essentially what I'm doing, but I take it a step further by keeping busy with doing things that I hope will make these kinds of problems less likely to occur in the future. It's called “hope.”


You know you could try to express your feelings through an illustration or some other creative pursuit. You'll get the feelings out and end up with a nice piece of art in the process. It's a good way to turn negative feelings into something positive.

That's an interesting idea. I thought of a song, but I'm not a musician. I suppose there's enough songs about men being betrayed by babes, are there not? :)

Jagella

SteveC
02-24-2009, 06:23 PM
Jagella you’re a great guy, everyone on this forum has an opinion of you here’s five of mine:


You’re passionate
You’re Friendly and helpful
You set and work towards your goals
You take accept criticism well and constantly work to improve
You’ll go out of your way to help people


So all around you’re a pretty decent guy... accept this for what is it, I tend to speak my mind and well, if I didn’t think the above was true I wouldn’t say it, so accept it as fact.

Now, it’s not easy to get over things, and I don’t tell this story too often but I used to work away from the UK in the Middle East, I was the commercial director of a large international construction company, I was married and we had two children... everything was fine... until I went home one Christmas and found out my wife was having an affair with the guy next door... the end result being that both marriages broke down (ours and the neighbours)... I ended up finishing out my contracts in the Middle East and returning to the UK... and then it took me around two years to get over everything and move on... I was down and out for the count, I hit a brick wall and everything stopped... in the end I pulled myself together, learnt from the experience and moved on.

Now I live in Australia, I get on reasonably well with my children in the UK and I have a whole new family here in Australia... a business of my own that is doing fantastically well... and well life for the most part is pretty good... that doesn’t mean that I haven’t had to face challenges, because I have and more than most... but I’ve learnt how to overcome them and move on and not to let them tie me down... hopefully you can learn the same.

vangogh
02-24-2009, 07:41 PM
Steve I realize your story is from the past and I assume you're over it, since you're doing well now, but sorry you had to deal with in the first place. I'm sure it wasn't the best time in your life.

Joe it's ok to feel down and it's natural to want to understand the what and the why and get answers to all your questions. The key is not to let it affect everything else you do. We've all been there in one way or another. I won't share any stories, but I certainly have them and I didn't always deal with things very well. Too often I let a situation affect me in other ways. That only makes things worse.

It's not easy so don't feel like you have to be back to usual by the end of the day, but try your best to put what happened into perspective. Usually a window closing somewhere means a door opening somewhere else.

billbenson
02-24-2009, 08:29 PM
Being blind sided by infidelity like that has to be about the worst hit you can take Steve.

I turned 53 this month. I've had friends and acquaintances over my life. I stayed in touch with high school friends for a long time. Some friends during my bachelorhood (I didn't marry until I was 42). The interesting thing is the only real friends are three college buddies. The others are just acquaintances, nothing more. To bad, but after half a lifetime there are so few people I really can trust. My wife is my best friend as well.

SteveC
02-24-2009, 10:12 PM
Over the years I've learnt to cope with anything that lie throws at me and boy had is thrown some things at me... one day I'll tell you how I started FX Digital, secured our largest contract and got deported back to the UK and then back again to Australia all in the space of a few months... or then again I could mention being under virtual house arrest in kuwait... etc... etc.... I've lots of stories to tell over a bottle of Jonny Walker...

Bill, I had a good friend here in Australia... we ate and dined and did lots of family things together... I even gave him a job and taught him some of what I know... the end result being that he set himself up in competition doing exactly the same things as me... in other words he wanted to be me... did it work for him, not likely... are we still friends... not likely... true friends are extremely hard to find.

And the only reason I mentioned these things in the first place, is simply to demonstrate that we have all haveproblems and issues and that we all learn to deal with them... they make us what we are... and I wouldn't change a thing in my past, the good or the bad.

Jagella
02-24-2009, 11:24 PM
Now, it’s not easy to get over things, and I don’t tell this story too often but I used to work away from the UK in the Middle East, I was the commercial director of a large international construction company, I was married and we had two children... everything was fine... until I went home one Christmas and found out my wife was having an affair with the guy next door... the end result being that both marriages broke down (ours and the neighbours)... I ended up finishing out my contracts in the Middle East and returning to the UK... and then it took me around two years to get over everything and move on... I was down and out for the count, I hit a brick wall and everything stopped... in the end I pulled myself together, learnt from the experience and moved on.

Thank you for sharing that story. Let me share my own...

The “friend” I'm speaking of on this thread is “Marty”; Marty moved into the apartment directly over my own about two years ago. She's maybe ten feet away as I type this. She's a very attractive woman, but her real asset is her personality. It's bewitching. She has a way of constantly keeping me guessing as to her true attitude toward me. One time she'll tell me that I'm good looking, and the next time I see her she ignores me.

On the 13th of this month, I saw her on the street in front of our building. We stopped to talk, and she asked me what I was doing on Valentine's Day. I told her I'd get something for her. She then hugged me and asked me out on a date. I agreed to date her, of course.

As I made my way down the street I literally thought I must be dreaming. The best-looking woman I know asked me out. I thought it was too good to be true, and you know what they say about something that seems too good to be true.

To make a long story short, nothing much at all has happened since then. The date has yet to happen, and I've seen very little of Marty. I spoke to her briefly last Friday, and she told me she had been ill. She did remind me that we had a date, though. I don't know if it amounts to much because the rumor I mentioned earlier has to do with Marty seeing another guy. When I heard that, my worst fear seemed to materialize. I went from heaven to hell in less than two weeks.

Steve, you make a point of being honest. Based on what I've shared, can you honestly tell me that Marty's intentions toward me are good? My gut feeling tells me that no, there's too much going wrong in this whole affair for it to amount to any kind of real relationship. I think she's just manipulating my emotions. Why she would do it, I don't know, but what people do often makes little sense.

I'll survive, though!

Jagella

vangogh
02-24-2009, 11:39 PM
Joe try not to read too much into her motivations. It's possible she's really been sick and does still want that date. However it may not have meant the same thing to her as it did to you. The guy she may be dating could have been an ex who she got together with again or it could be the man of her dreams who she happened to meet after she made your date. It could also be that whoever told you the rumor got it wrong.

There are lots of explanations that don't involve her playing with your emotions. There are also explanations that would indicate she was. The point is not to read too much into it. I know it's hard to have it happen though and I think most everyone here has probably had something similar happen to them.

You'll survive like you say.

There are many things in life that happen that we never get to understand why. It sucks, but it's part of life.

SteveC
02-24-2009, 11:47 PM
Jagella, I think you’re actually putting two and two together and making five, or to put it another way you are putting the cart before the horse.

From what I can see Marty wants to be your friend, she has asked you out on a date and by the sound of it she intends to see it through... from what I can tell, she basically wants to get to know you and I guess whatever develops after the first date, develops... but don’t ruin your chances before they begin... especially based on rumours and such like... in fact if I were you and she was just ten feet away... I would walk over there, a bottle of red or white in hand, and I would simply say fancy a chat over a drink... and see what happens and if I had real concerns I would raise them... however as you’ve not been on a date yet your expectations are running ahead of the game somewhat.

That’s just my perspective on what you have told us...

Dan Furman
02-24-2009, 11:49 PM
Based on what I've shared, can you honestly tell me that Marty's intentions toward me are good? My gut feeling tells me that no, there's too much going wrong in this whole affair for it to amount to any kind of real relationship. I think she's just manipulating my emotions. Why she would do it, I don't know, but what people do often makes little sense.


Sorry this has happened, Joe. From what you say, though, I'm not sure she has any ill intentions - these things happen. Maybe she did meet someone else, maybe she didn't and was really ill - but remember, all's fair in dating.

One thing you could try is be the aggressor a bit - forget the "owed" date - you go ask her on another date.

Blessed
02-25-2009, 01:01 AM
I'll just chime in here with a woman's perspective and say that you should definitely take the lead on this one and see what happens. Maybe you'll find out that she just thinks you are a nice guy that it would be fun to have dinner with on occasion but maybe you'll find out something different.

I'm a pretty outgoing, take-charge, have lots of friends and acquaintances, kind of gal - I married a man (so obviously the dating went well...) who is a lot quieter, more introverted and etc... than I am but in our relationship he took the lead. if it had been up to me to schedule it we never would have gone out on that first date. Pick a day, pick a place and ask her to go with you. (Having a few days and places in mind before you approach her with that bottle of wine Steve C mentioned might be a good idea too...)

Good luck! You seem like a nice guy, we women like nice guys, but we like nice guys who know what they want and aren't afraid to go after it - especially if it is us they want.

KristineS
02-25-2009, 12:43 PM
It sounds to me like all you know for sure is that she asked you out and that hasn't happened yet, but she intends it to happen. Instead of wondering what's going on, I'd just ask her. You don't have to be confrontational or mean about it, just tell her you're feeling a little confused and you'd like to know what's going on. Right now you're just jumping to conclusions that may have no basis in fact. At least if you ask you'll know. Maybe you won't like what she tells you, but at least you'll know and can move on from there.

billbenson
02-25-2009, 05:02 PM
"So, how about a rain check on that date for Saturday night, or is there a better timc"? Either way, if she says yes or no, nobody's feelings are hurt.

It's just like sales; you don't need to be aggressive in asking for the order, but you do need to ask for the order. That's how I always did it anyway...

Jagella
02-25-2009, 06:07 PM
One thing you could try is be the aggressor a bit - forget the "owed" date - you go ask her on another date.

Thanks for the advice, Dan, but I really don't think the effort would be worthwhile. There's a lot of background information I haven't divulged about this incident which might shed a lot of light on why I feel the way I do. Marty and I both live in a building where there's a lot of crime, and she's told me she's spent time in jail! That doesn't make her a person who's out to get me, of course, but it does little for my believing that she would make a good woman for me.

It's nice of you and the other members here to encourage me, but I'm convinced I'm right. In case I am wrong, though, I will post a photo of me eating my hat—on that date with Marty. ;)

Jagella

Dan Furman
02-25-2009, 06:43 PM
, but I'm convinced I'm right.

Then go with your gut. My gut has never lied to me.

Jagella
02-25-2009, 06:56 PM
Then go with your gut. My gut has never lied to me.

Yes, it's an anticlimax, isn't it? I'm sure I haven't seen the last of Marty, but it won't be like it is in the movies. You know—boy meets girl—boy gets girl—boy and girl never experience impotence. :D It hasn't been boring, though.

Jagella

Jagella
02-25-2009, 11:21 PM
I'll just chime in here with a woman's perspective...

It's harder for me to talk about these issues with a woman. Women may be more likely to get defensive about a guy expressing his misgivings about a woman's intentions. I don't mean to be negative toward women, and I'll be glad to talk to you about it.


...and say that you should definitely take the lead on this one and see what happens.

Well, Jenn, I didn't mention that on Valentine's Day, the day after Marty asked me out, I gave her some flowers. She seemed to appreciate the gesture, and she hugged me and let me kiss her. What happened after that? Not much, but I did see her last Friday. That was the day she told me she had been ill. She reminded me of our date, but nothing is happening. I told her to either stop by or call me, but so far she hasn't bothered.


if it had been up to me to schedule it we never would have gone out on that first date.

That's interesting, but I don't know if I can judge Marty like I judge you. Like I mentioned earlier, Marty has a very unique personality. She really stands out in a crowd. When I first met her, I thought that she must have been putting on an act. She really seems to demand attention, and she's extremely female, you might say. She seems to be stereotypically female. She's kind of hard to describe, but she's something like a living Barby Doll. She's almost impossible to really know or understand. It's really strange, in a way.


Pick a day, pick a place and ask her to go with you.

I certainly won't turn her down. The ball's in her court, and at this point I'm waiting for her because I already told her what to do if she'd like to go out. But like I told Dan, I won't be holding my breath.

I know that a lot of the people here might find my attitude in regard to this situation a little hard to understand. But Jenn, if you knew what I've been through, I'm guessing you wouldn't be too quick to jump on a date with Marty either. Well, since you're a woman, a date with a “Martin.”

Jagella

Blessed
02-26-2009, 07:50 AM
I certainly won't turn her down. The ball's in her court, and at this point I'm waiting for her because I already told her what to do if she'd like to go out. But like I told Dan, I won't be holding my breath.

I know that a lot of the people here might find my attitude in regard to this situation a little hard to understand. But Jenn, if you knew what I've been through, I'm guessing you wouldn't be too quick to jump on a date with Marty either. Well, since you're a woman, a date with a “Martin.”

Well in that case - I'd say it's time to just move on and try to find something else to fill your mind and your time with. Then if Marty takes the ball and sets a date go with it and see what happens!

As for a date with "Martin" I think my husband might mind if I did that... I kinda like having my husband around so I think I'll pass and just see if Hubby will take me out on a date soon... :p

Jagella
03-18-2009, 11:08 PM
Well in that case - I'd say it's time to just move on and try to find something else to fill your mind and your time with. Then if Marty takes the ball and sets a date go with it and see what happens!

It's been a while since I shared this episode, but an update is in order. I've seen Marty three times now since she reminded me of our alleged date, and each time she paid little attention to me. She said hi and kept going which is essentially what I thought she would do. She's just that kind of person I'm sorry to say. Why she did this to me, I don't know, but I'll never let it happen again, if I can help it. I'll just stay away from her unless she changes her attitude toward me.

I did hear from the man Marty is rumored to have been seeing. His name is Mike. We've become friends, and like most men who become friends, we share our thoughts about women. I told him about what Marty did, and he said she did much the same thing to him! According to Mike, Marty phoned him twice to ask him out. She never went through with it, though. Mike said he just laughed it off. Mike said that Marty is a “nut” and said that she's “off.”

I wouldn't describe Marty as a “nut,” but there's no doubt that she does act strange sometimes. I don't believe I've mentioned this before, but Marty told me she has cancer. I can speculate all day, but I believe her illness may explain her attitude toward men. She may fear rejection as a result of having cancer, or she may have a sexual problem that results from it. I'm not unsympathetic toward her, and I certainly wish her luck and hope she recovers. Despite what she did to me, I wish her the best.


As for a date with "Martin" I think my husband might mind if I did that... I kinda like having my husband around so I think I'll pass and just see if Hubby will take me out on a date soon...

Oh great, Jenn—let me know all about your wonderful love life and how happy and fortunate you are. That's just what I want to read as I short-circuit my computer's keyboard with my lonely tear drops. :D

Jagella

vangogh
03-19-2009, 12:49 AM
Thanks for the update Joe. Sorry things didn't work out like you might have hoped, but you seem to be taking it in stride which is good.

Who knows why Marty acted the way she did. I wouldn't spend too much time speculating, since it's unlikely you'll be able to find out. Even if she told you'd have to take the information with a grain of salt at this point.

Jagella
03-19-2009, 09:42 AM
Thanks for the update Joe. Sorry things didn't work out like you might have hoped, but you seem to be taking it in stride which is good.

Well, Steve, I'm just too good a man to let nonsense like this destroy me. I'm like a Weeble: I might wobble but I don't fall down.

http://users.rcn.com/chinmonster/pc/bg_weeble.jpg


Who knows why Marty acted the way she did. I wouldn't spend too much time speculating, since it's unlikely you'll be able to find out. Even if she told you'd have to take the information with a grain of salt at this point.

I'm not sure if Marty even knows why she did it, but since Mike explained what happened, I think Marty is lonely and wants a man in her life. If she doesn't want me or Mike, I can say in all honesty that I hope she finds somebody else. She's a very attractive woman, and if she can get over her troubles, I believe she can find somebody.

Jagella

vangogh
03-19-2009, 12:00 PM
Funny. I don't think I've ever seen a Bill Gates weeble before.

You really are dealing with this well. Most people wouldn't want Marty to be happy after this, but it's great that you can.

Blacktalon
03-19-2009, 02:00 PM
Why can't you be the one she chooses to be with? Maybe in this case, if it is indeed cancer that she has, it would be ideal to probe her and find out what exactly it is. Don't go about it directly. That will just make her turn tail and run. No more Marty.

But taking a more casual, cautious approach would do you wonders, that is if you still wish to pursue her further. Women love attention. They hate it when people, especially men, who don't give it to them. Perhaps now is the time to show feigned disinterest; your sudden change of appeal might help increase your chances.

One thing I might suggest is this:

The next time she talks to you or asks you out for a date, approach it like something along these lines:

Marty: "Hey Joe!"
Joe: "Hey" *then pretend to carry on with whatever you're doing*
Marty: "How're things?"
Joe: "Great! Look, I'd love to stay and chat but I have to be somewhere!"
Marty: "Oh, well, how about we go out next Friday again?"
Joe: "Friday...friday...Hmm, seems good, but I already have a date for that night. Can we rebook for the following *hypothetical date*?"
Marty: "Sure, I guess..."
Joe: "Sorry Marty, I have to get going. Kate is waiting for me! Talk to you later!"

The best way to handle this is to make it look like as though you are highly desireable. Mentioning a date with a ficticious woman named Kate will perk up her inner self and say, "hey, other women seem to be into this guy...I wonder what he's like then? I want a piece of the pie!"

She's probably used to guys falling for her. Why not make it interesting for Marty this time? You could very well be the man she's looking for. She just doesn't know it yet...

Even if Marty does have cancer or leprocy, that shouldn't matter. If the feelings are there, then cancer is pretty irrelevant at this moment.

My step-mother had breast cancer, yet that didn't stop my dad from loving her.

As Matthew Wilder said, "Ain't nothin' gonna break my stride/ain't nothing gonna slow me down/Oh no/I've got to keep on movin'"

You should find it within your interests to keep that little chorus line as your way of life, for women, pleasure or for business.

Sean

Jagella
03-19-2009, 02:23 PM
Funny. I don't think I've ever seen a Bill Gates weeble before.

I'll try giving one to Marty. If that doesn't get her to fall for me, then what will? :D


You really are dealing with this well. Most people wouldn't want Marty to be happy after this, but it's great that you can.

There's a difference between love and possessiveness, Steve. Many people only want to possess their significant other. That's where all the jealousy and bitterness can enter the relationship. I say love her (or him if you're a woman) whether she loves you back or not. Love should be based in good will toward the other person and not be selfish.

Jagella

Spider
03-19-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm a bit late in responding, I realise, but I thought I'd mention this--

Nobody can make you feel anything - only you can make you feel the way you do. We all have complete control of our own emotions, even though it doesn't seem like it sometimes.

Somebody does something. You interpret what that means to you. If that interpretation makes you feel bad, give it a different interpretation - give their action an interpretation that gives you a feeling that serves you better.

I'm not saying this is easy - it is as easy as you care to make it. But, until one takes responsibility for the way one feels, one cannot change the way one feels. It is only after we accept the fact that we control our own emotions that we can make changes to how we feel.

Most people wait for time to pass because "Time heals all wounds." But time only heals because we tend to forget. The action was still done and not retracted. The other person still exists. But WE let it slip in our mind, WE let other things take precedence, WE let time heal us. WE had the control all along.

Once you ask the questions: Why am I making myself feel so bad? And What can I do to stop making myself feel so bad? - you will feel better. IOW, forget about them and focus on yourself, for that is where the solution lies.

Jagella
03-19-2009, 02:44 PM
Why can't you be the one she chooses to be with?

Only Marty can know for sure, but it seems to me that she doesn't want me. After what Mike told me, she doesn't seem to want any guy, or at least she's not willing to let her true intentions be known.


Maybe in this case, if it is indeed cancer that she has, it would be ideal to probe her and find out what exactly it is. Don't go about it directly. That will just make her turn tail and run. No more Marty.

I'll try that if I get a chance. She did tell me that she's having trouble with her liver. It scared me when she told me that. I hope it's not too serious.


Perhaps now is the time to show feigned disinterest; your sudden change of appeal might help increase your chances.

I haven't made a move in weeks. Is that enough feigned disinterest? ;)


The best way to handle this is to make it look like as though you are highly desireable. Mentioning a date with a ficticious woman named Kate will perk up her inner self and say, "hey, other women seem to be into this guy...I wonder what he's like then? I want a piece of the pie!"

Last fall, Marty and another woman visited me in my apartment. We just talked about another tenant who committed a crime against me. I mentioned that I have a girlfriend. This “girlfriend” is a real woman named “Betty,” and I've been dating Betty for about six years now. Betty and I have basically a platonic relationship, but I didn't tell Marty that. I was curious to see how Marty would react, but it didn't seem to phase her too much. Fast forward to February 13th, the day Marty asked me out. She asked about Betty, and I explained that Betty and I are “only friends.” It seemed to me that Marty was investigating her chances with me. I left the door open, so to speak, but Marty has not yet entered.


Even if Marty does have cancer or leprocy, that shouldn't matter. If the feelings are there, then cancer is pretty irrelevant at this moment.

I basically agree, but I must admit that I wouldn't want to get emotionally involved with Marty only to see her die. Death is a real possibility with cancer, of course.


As Matthew Wilder said, "Ain't nothin' gonna break my stride/ain't nothing gonna slow me down/Oh no/I've got to keep on movin'"

You should find it within your interests to keep that little chorus line as your way of life, for women, pleasure or for business.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Sean. My motto is: “You can call me a loser, but you can't call me a quitter.”

Jagella

Jagella
03-19-2009, 03:00 PM
Somebody does something. You interpret what that means to you. If that interpretation makes you feel bad, give it a different interpretation - give their action an interpretation that gives you a feeling that serves you better.

What I've been discussing on this thread is nonverbal communication. Marty could have used verbal communication and told me: “Get lost, you loser!” Of course, she didn't actually say that but simply didn't do what she said she wanted to do. I must interpret her action, and such nonverbal communication is very ambiguous. What is the message? It may be that she thinks that I blew her off, and she's trying to get back at me by responding in kind. It's her way of saying that she's such a great, wonderful, sexy babe that I'd absolutely love to have. But you can't have me. Or maybe you can have me. Or maybe not...

If nothing else, this situation does make for a very interesting thread.

Jagella

Spider
03-19-2009, 05:08 PM
...I must interpret her action, and such nonverbal communication is very ambiguous. What is the message? It may be that she thinks ... Do you see what you are doing, Jag? You are saying that SHE is being ambiguous, that it is what she thinks and what she is communicating that is making you do or feel whatever.

Marty did something or did not do something. Her intention, her message, what she thinks, has nothing to do with how you feel.

Marty wasn't being ambiguous - Marty was being Marty. If you couldn't understand it, that's your problem. It's a problem with your understanding, not with with how she acts. It's possible, of course, that Marty is one of these people that you will never understand, but maybe she's not. However, the solution lies in you understanding. It always comes back to you.

Personally, I have found that when I don't understand something, asking questions is usually a good first step.

Blacktalon
03-19-2009, 05:40 PM
No problem Joe. I've got a buddy who's going head-over-heels for a girl who is pretty much doing the same BS stuff to him as MArty has done to you. He's virtually gone batty trying to figure out where the hell he stands with this girl; for those looking on the outside it's quite easy to see that she has no interest in him whatsoever other than considering him a little plaything that gives her ego pleasure.

I should also mention that he's 30 yrs old, and she's 19 (or will be in a matter of weeks). That 11 1/2 yr gap sure as hell makes a difference, even despite his calls in saying "ohhh, uhm, she's a mature person. Blah blah blah." If a person was "mature" they probably wouldn't be playing these weird misleading games on him like that...aghhh I've had too much drama from that to dispense anything further about it without going utterly mad.

I think it stems from the fact that I've gone through something of a similar nature myself , eventually coming to terms with myself by saying this entire mess is a blasted waste of my time, and I'm better off not being involved with this one person who basically sees me as a thrill. So I moved on to someone who showed her affection and was there for me the whole time I was chasing someone else. A dream, nonetheless. But one that was necessary.

Love, or infatuation, is bloody persistent and it totally enveloppes our perceptions once we are entrapped by its sirenous lure. But there comes a moment in time when you grow tired of the shenanigans and resolve in saying, "I can do better."

That's all I can say at this moment. But if you want to have a little fun, pull her strings a little. At least you'll get a kick out of it and it'll boost your confidence at the same time.

Blessed
03-19-2009, 09:10 PM
Oh great, Jenn—let me know all about your wonderful love life and how happy and fortunate you are. That's just what I want to read as I short-circuit my computer's keyboard with my lonely tear drops. :D

Just trying to help Joe :)...
I knew someone once who shrink wrapped his keyboard - well kinda shrink wrapped it, he sealed it with the shrink wrap material but never ran it through the heater to actually shrink the plastic. If you keep short-circuiting your keyboards you might need to try that!

Jagella
03-19-2009, 11:16 PM
No problem Joe. I've got a buddy who's going head-over-heels for a girl who is pretty much doing the same BS stuff to him as MArty has done to you. He's virtually gone batty trying to figure out where the hell he stands with this girl; for those looking on the outside it's quite easy to see that she has no interest in him whatsoever other than considering him a little plaything that gives her ego pleasure.

A lot of women act that way. It's very primal, and I believe it has a Darwinistic, genetic basis to it. Females who can attract males and pick and choose whom they wish to mate with have a higher likelihood of passing down their genes to strong offspring. Among these offspring more such females arise, and the cycle of natural selection repeats itself.


...aghhh I've had too much drama from that to dispense anything further about it without going utterly mad.

I might feel that way too, but fortunately I'm able to put it into perspective. At this point I'm back to normal.


So I moved on to someone who showed her affection and was there for me the whole time I was chasing someone else.

I happen to know a woman like that, but I can only see her as a friend. The women I want don't want me, and the women that want me, I don't want them. J Geils is right: Love stinks.


Love, or infatuation, is bloody persistent and it totally enveloppes our perceptions once we are entrapped by its sirenous lure.

Well put! And very poetic.


That's all I can say at this moment. But if you want to have a little fun, pull her strings a little. At least you'll get a kick out of it and it'll boost your confidence at the same time.

At this point Marty has basically disappeared from my life. I may only see her once a week, and when I do see her, she says little and moves on. Actually, I prefer it this way. It sure beats all those awful head games.

Thanks for the response, Sean. We men do have our share of heartaches and heartbreaks, do we not?

Jagella

Blacktalon
03-20-2009, 10:48 AM
If it wasn't for the heartaches then I wouldn't have met my wife. Things happen for a purpose Joe. After all that I've (and you've) been through, that's basically what I've arrived at.

The more I think about it the more I had to go through the things I did in order to fulfill some aetherean lesson or motif of some sort.

It's within your benefit that she doesn't do much in the way of contact. At least now you know that she isn't the one for you despite her actions to the contrary (trying to meet with you prior).

This is reminiscent of what happened to me back in late '05. The girl who I had chased during that spring and summer; after a lot of charades with her, I decided that my now-wife Jo was the one I deserved to be with. She was there for me the entire time and often lent her shoulder for me to cry on numerous times.

I remember it was Samhain (All Hallow's Eve for the non-pagan). Jo and I had just come from a retreat down near the Toronto harbour, and we conveniently found ourselves acting like little children - giggling and laughing and skipping up Bay Street in a whimsical fashion, eventually taking Queen St. West and into the Osgoode subway station on University Ave. Then we ran down the stairs and into the subway car.

That was when we pretty much declared that we really wanted to be with one another. Red-haired women do that to me. Flash-forward a week later to my birthday, and I got a message from her (the girl) whilst I played sunday-night poker with my buddies. She told me the same old story and blah blah blah. Filled with utter lies. After that I pretty much confirmed my choice of staying with my now-wife, but I didn't let on to the girl (she deserves a name. I shall christen her Angelica) that I had wanted her to *bleep!* off. Call ended and Jo and I became quite cozy afterwards. But it doesn't end there.

Going forward to Yuletide, or the winter solstice. I came back to my folks' place early that morning after spending the night with Jo at her apartment in uptown Toronto.

Upon coming home I flicked on my computer just to check my emails before having a little nap. As I signed on to my MSN, I got a message from the girl. It was the first time I had heard from her in nearly 2 months. The last time I spoke with her was in early November on that sunday playing poker.

Apparently I had left my status on MSN saying I was "Chilling with Josie for the night. Be back later". It was enough, however, to trigger Angelica to message me at a wee 7 am to talk to me after such a long silence. Without going into much detail, it was the same small-talk BS she had invented during our 6-month endeavour that year, but near the end she questioned me if Jo was my girlfriend. This is the pivotal moment I had been waiting for for a long time.

Deep down inside I still had mad feelings for Angelica. I was hoping that this would be the moment she tells me the truth of the shenanigans she had put me through that summer. But I was so emotionally scarred and my distrust for her grew even despite the hard feelings I still felt lingering within my shattered heart (one can just hear the song "Shattered Dreams," by Johnny Hates Jazz, playing softly in the backdrop right about now). I said, "Yes, she is. And we're happy together".

I could somehow feel a psionic connect happen as I felt her heart shatter like mine. after a few seconds of silence, she said, "I'm happy for you :)". Then she said, "Look Sean, have a great Christmas. Call me ok? :)"

Non-challantly, I said, "Yeah, ok". And we left it from there. I had an extreme paradigm shift occur at that exact moment: the feeling of absolute relief and an equal feeling of absolute dread.

Let me tell you something further: I had never met Angelica in person. The whole summer we had planned on meeting in person but some "antics" led to us never meeting. Troubled by it all, I knew something wasn't right. My instincts and own scrying capabilities told me that things weren;t as they seemed. It's a rather long and complicated story that still infuriates me to no end.

But now that it's done and over with, I realize it was for the best. We have to go through these things in order to have our eyes totally opened to the real matters going on around us. We try so hard to eliminate the pain and pressure from our lives without realizing that suffering is what makes us who we are. I believe Nietzsche said that in his book Beyond Good and Evil.

On a concluding note, the fact that she (Marty) acts rather "primitive" merely suggests that we are still human and, as it may, feral. We will never shake our own primal demands for survival, no matter how "advanced" we may be technologically or otherwise.

It's good that she's disappeared. But even though you may now move on with your life, there will always be that lingering "residue" of Marty that will forever be a part of what you do. As you age more, the whole charade will seem comical. But do not dismiss it as anything else. It made you who you are now. You wouldn't be yourself now if it didn't happen that way.


Well put! And very poetic.

Thanks :D I read philosophy and poetry.

Let us know of any further developments. But it looks as though they've developed all that they can.

Sean

Jagella
03-20-2009, 11:16 PM
It's within your benefit that she doesn't do much in the way of contact. At least now you know that she isn't the one for you despite her actions to the contrary (trying to meet with you prior).

At this point, that's obvious, and I can say in all honesty that I don't want to see her. She's more trouble than she's worth.


On a concluding note, the fact that she (Marty) acts rather "primitive" merely suggests that we are still human and, as it may, feral. We will never shake our own primal demands for survival, no matter how "advanced" we may be technologically or otherwise.

Well said, and I believe that those “primal demands for survival” cause us to act the way we do—both good and bad. It's what leads to both love and hate and the very thin line that separates the two. If it wasn't for the “struggle to survive,” as Darwin put it, people like Marty and Angelica wouldn't act the way they do. If you ever get a chance, I'd recommend The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. It explains the basis for human behavior from a genetic point of view. We humans are slaves to our genes, and we act to pass them down to offspring.


It's good that she's disappeared. But even though you may now move on with your life, there will always be that lingering "residue" of Marty that will forever be a part of what you do. As you age more, the whole charade will seem comical. But do not dismiss it as anything else. It made you who you are now. You wouldn't be yourself now if it didn't happen that way.

I think you're right, Sean, but did I mention that Marty and I live in the same building? In fact, she lives in the unit directly over mine. She might be ten feet away as I type this. Although I don't see her much, I can hear her footsteps often.

But what's really the matter here, as I see it, isn't so much Marty, or romance, or any broken hearts: It's why we live in this building. This building is low-income housing for the elderly and those of us referred to as “disabled.” All of us are societal rejects living in poverty. I believe the basis for what happened between Marty and me has its roots in disability, disability understood as a social policy that segregates and marginalizes people. When people are in effect concentrated in such places, they become depressed and resentful. It's much like being in prison in that we are not here by choice but from being put here. Many of us don't like each other, but there's not much hope to get out. It seems likely that Marty was acting out of this loneliness, and since her being here limits her ability to find a man she might want, she acted on impulse.

As awful as it can be, it does spur me on to succeed as a graphic designer. I keep telling myself that all the hard work will pay off some day. It's the price of freedom!

Jagella

Blacktalon
03-27-2009, 07:05 PM
Seems as though you have moved on. Good on you, Joe.

It must be weird, however, to know that she is lingering just above your head, literally, almost within reach...yet she seems so far away.

Might be a good thing. Depending on how thin the floors are between you and her, I'm probably betting you can hear a good portion of the commotion that goes on above you.

As for Dawkins, I'm a little leary of his work given his complete and utter ignorance of the supernatural realm of this world.

You seem like a very philosophically-driven person, Joe. I think it might be worth our while to indulge into some philosophical conversations in a separate thread.

Keep your chin up in the mean time.

Sean

Jagella
03-28-2009, 12:31 AM
It must be weird, however, to know that she is lingering just above your head, literally, almost within reach...yet she seems so far away.

Yes. Distance can be measured as much in disrespect, bitterness, and rejection as much as it can be measured in miles. I can be a poet too!


Might be a good thing. Depending on how thin the floors are between you and her, I'm probably betting you can hear a good portion of the commotion that goes on above you.

Just so I don't have to hear her bed springs squeaking. :D


As for Dawkins, I'm a little leary of his work given his complete and utter ignorance of the supernatural realm of this world.

In that case, Sean, you shouldn't read Dawkins.


You seem like a very philosophically-driven person, Joe. I think it might be worth our while to indulge into some philosophical conversations in a separate thread.

That sounds like a good idea, Sean. I'm thinking either immortality or meaning in life might be good topics.

By the way, I was coming out of the laundry room about three days ago. From behind me I heard a woman's sweet voice say: “Hi Joe! How are you doing?” I looked back and it was Marty! I didn't get a chance to chat with her because I had a load of laundry I had to take back to my apartment, and I was talking to two other women. What that says to me is that maybe Marty wasn't really ignoring me. Maybe she was distracted too.

Anyway, regardless of how all this turns out, I just can't get over her. She's so beautiful. And sexy. And a woman.

I suppose I've become the love-sick puppy of the Small Business Forum.

http://homecookhost.homestead.com/files/images/whitepuppy.jpg

Talk to you later, Sean!

Jagella