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Steve B
02-20-2009, 03:30 AM
I've worked really hard lately updating my customer database and capturing my existing customer's e-mail addresses. I now have several hundred e-mails from people that have already purchased my services. My goal is to send them occassional tips about the proper use of my fence. An example would be that after our recent power outages from the ice storm, I sent a reminder about the proper use of the built-in battery back up.

Of course, this will also have the side benefit of putting my name in front of them a few times a year and occasionally reminding them how much we love referals. I'll also slip in an occasional reference to one of my other businesses and give them references to other dog related businesses that I can vouch for.

I tried Constant Contact and one of their competitors. These are the companies that allow you to create a really nice looking e-mail with graphics etc. I guarantee you probably get one or two of these e-mails a day if you've ever purchased anything on-line. They worked fine, but I'm convinced people don't pay any attention to them anymore and I've decided to just send my e-mails the normal way. I'll use the bcc function to avoid giving out everyone's e-mail address to others. I've tested sending e-mails to my customers both ways - and I get a much better response when it is just from my regular e-mail account.

So, my question is, how do I avoid the spam filters when sending out e-mails to so many people?

I heard that copying too many people (over 100?) will possibly block the e-mail from some sites. I imagine sending attachments might also cause a problem. How about having links in an e-mail?

Does anyone have any advice on making sure the e-mails get through?

rezzy
02-20-2009, 10:01 AM
As far as fixing that, I dont know a way. Spam filters operate on their own and you would have to make sure you customers know that should add you on the filter to allow your emails to pass through.

I am reminded of another application which is FREE and allows you to send emails in much the same manner as you mentioned. I am not sure if it would help circumvent this problem.

It does have a steep learning curve, some of the menus are confusing and its a bit to much for someone who just wants to send out emails.
phplist.com : Homepage : home (http://www.phplist.com/)

vangogh
02-20-2009, 11:59 AM
You make sure the emails get through by using a service like Constant Contact. If people aren't opening the email it's not because it came through constant contact. It's because the subject line isn't enticing them to open.

You should be able to set constant contact so the sender appears as you. You have to craft the subject to make people want to open it.

But remember you're still sending something to people they didn't ask for. Most will never open or having opened won't respond.

rezzy
02-20-2009, 12:29 PM
How do you people arent opening them?

nealrm
02-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Hey Steve,
First thing I would look at is "Did these people request that you send them your newsletter?" If they did, there shouldn't be an issue getting through the filters. If they did not, they have probably already blocked your email address, so it doesn't matter how you send the email.

vangogh
02-20-2009, 02:40 PM
True and regardless of whether or not your email gets through the spam filter if the people haven't opted in to receive something they're not going to be interested. There are lots of companies I trust and have done business with. Their marketing emails get through, but I never look at them, because I haven't given the companies permission to market to me. I'm sure I've agreed to get the emails in one way or another and don't consider any of them spam, but the truth is I don't want to hear from any of these companies so they can send me all the email they want and I won't be opening it.

However the occasional intriguing subject line will get opened. Also there are other companies who I do want to hear from. Maybe they have a newsletter I signed up for or it's a company who's products I am interested in so I do want to know about them. Those emails I almost always open. It doesn't mean I buy what they're selling inside, but I'm opening the email and willing to buy when I see something I want.

How did you collect your email list? Did these people give you permission to send them something or are you just sending out emails because you have their address?

Steve B
02-20-2009, 04:55 PM
I must not have been clear in my question. This has nothing to do with people opening the e-mails it's about making sure my e-mails don't get blocked in the first place.

I used Constant Contact and I know how to use it - it was very easy and provided nice statistics (although the statistics are basically meaningless because they can't tell the difference between an e-mail being truly opened by the user and an e-mail that only appeared on a preview pane). The problem is that when it comes from a third party like that (despite having it come under my own e-mail address - which is how I set it up) it is still very obvious that it is a polished marketing piece. My experience is that it doesn't get the same attention as a personal e-mail without the snazzy layout and graphics. This isn't my theory - this is what my experience was after testing sending e-mails both ways.

When I send via CC or their competitor (I forget the other one) I got exactly zero responses of any kind (except for a few that wanted to unsubscribe). When I send the personal e-mail - I get a fair amount of responses, questions, compliments, orders for services, and never had one person ask to be taken off the list. The down side to the personal e-mail is that I don't know for sure how many, if any, are being blocked. That's why I want to make sure I make an attempt to learn what might get blocked.

I realize that some people have their system set up to block anyone that hasn't been specifically added to their list - I'm not worried about them (not worth the effort to ask everyone to add me to their list). I only send to people that have purchased things from me and have given me their e-mail.

So, does anyone know how spam filters work?

vangogh
02-20-2009, 05:49 PM
Again the way to make sure your emails get through is to use the 3rd party service. One of the reasons those services exist is because they've built relationships with ISPs and the email gets through. I'm not sure why you think it comes through as more polished marketing when it comes through a though from a 3rd party. It should come through however you want. No one receiving the email should know it went through the 3rd party service.

The person receiving the email will see the subject line, who sent it, and the body of the email. I'm really not following why it becomes obvious that it's polished marketing because of the 3rd party service. What exactly is the difference between the two emails that one comes across as more polished?

If you want email me a copy of a typical email you send out both ways. In fact don't tell me which is the one that's the 3rd party and which is the personal. I'll see if I can tell.


When I send the personal e-mail - I get a fair amount of responses, questions, compliments, orders for services, and never had one person ask to be taken off the list.

Are you sending these emails bulk or writing them individually to each person you send them to?

Patrysha
02-20-2009, 06:33 PM
You can send messages that are less polished looking (ie plain text) through the email services, you might want to try testing that out before you give up on that method.

Especially since your ISP can block your account if you send out a lot of emails within a short amount of time...what they consider a lot can vary and they can freeze your account without notice because it's somewhere in the fine print of the ISP contract.

On the other end there are words that can send your email to spam...which is why you've probably noticed that you get emails with words like F*R*ee written...because they're trying to fake out the spam filters.

There are subject line testers out there that will give you a spam score so you can guage whether or not your email is likely to go through...

Steve B
02-20-2009, 07:10 PM
Thanks Patrysha - that's exactly what I was looking for. Now, I have to find out what the limit is from my ISP. I'm not too worried about the subject lines since it's not my style to use anything real fake and flashy anyway.

Steve - with CC and the others - they use pre-made templates which typically use built in graphic images. If you use them, (at least on my end as the recipient using Outlook) the receiver gets a message asking if it's O.K. to open the images. That is where I stop as a recipient since they have now confirmed it's a marketing type of e-mail and not personal - so I delete it. However, you can choose to make your e-mails all text with these services, but I think they still technically have graphics so the "flag" is still obvious. Finally, by law CC and the others have to have a disclaimer at the bottom about what they do and don't do with e-mail addresses etc. So, even the text only are very clear that they are a mass distributed e-mail. I can't send you a sample of one of these because I let my trial account expire, but I'm sure you get them all the time - just scroll down to the bottom of a few e-mails you get from businesses.

I'll send you my most recent e-mail after I send this. What I've been doing is cutting and pasting (from an Excel file) my e-mail addresses into the BCC field of Outlook. When the recipient gets it - it looks like it was sent just to them because they can't see the other recipients. If they aren't paying attention, they might think I personally sent it just to them (although it's clear if they are looking for it that it was a BCC).

This morning I sent 350 e-mails - hopefully, I'm well within the limit of the ISP I use.

Steve B
02-20-2009, 07:33 PM
VG - I just sent you two sample e-mails. I think what I'm trying to accomplish will be cleared up for you.

vangogh
02-20-2009, 07:40 PM
Ok, now I get it. I was thinking that might have been what you meant, but I wasn't sure. Maybe you can't do this with CC, but I'm pretty sure you can send text only emails through a 3rd party. It might mean creating your own template though, but you should be able to.

I think also with sending out the mass emails through Outlook that there may be more to it than just how many. Obviously you can send multiple emails out since people do that all the time. You may or may not get an answer from your ISP as they might see the question as you wanting to send out spam and testing them to see what you can get away with. It doesn't hurt to ask though. I think your ISP is stricter than most. I know I've sent out emails in the past that your ISP blocked where others wouldn't.

ISPs look at the header information of an email as well to determine whether it's legit or not. I'm not sure how you view them in Outlook, but there might be a button to view full headers or something like that. In Thunderbird I added an extension that shows me the info. I don't know what all the header information means, but some of it relates to checking if the email is valid.

Do you remember when we first opened the forum and the confirmation emails weren't getting through? It was a simple flag I hadn't set on the admin side that was blocking the emails. Once I set the flag the confirmation emails went through fine.

A personal email is always going to work better. That's why you see even the mass emails starting with Hello {Name} Unfortunately the more emails you try to send at once the less personal they're going to be. Imagine if you emailed each person individually and included one or two things in each specific to that person. You'd probably get a pretty good response, but you obviously couldn't spend all day crafting those emails.

With the 3rd party services you should still be able to send the text only email. There should also be ways to get the template driven emails to work even if they look more polished. That's all I was meaning above. The text only approach probably isn't the only way to increase the response, though it is one way.

I got your emails and I'll take a look at how both look.

Patrysha
02-20-2009, 07:53 PM
I totally get why you don't like the statements at the end of the emails sent out by third party services, but they are doing it so you as the business owner/sender are in compliance with CAN-SPAM laws which cover commercial email.

The thing is that according to laws covering commercial email...even if you are sending them out from your Outlook...you must list a way for them to opt out of further emails and your address. If you are sending out emails without those then you aren't in compliance...

Also, it's not just subject lines but content that set off the filters, but I'm pretty sure none of us here really have to worry about that part of things in our emails. However, the CAN-SPAM act does apply to all of us. (Well if you live in a country other than the US the same law doesn't apply...but most countries do have some version of the same guidelines/rules)

vangogh
02-20-2009, 08:00 PM
I just emailed you Steve and I said some of the same as what Patrysha just said about the statements at the end. Like them or not, I do think you are spamming if those aren't included. I also forwarded you an example of a text only email newsletter I get so you can see it can be done.

Steve B
02-20-2009, 08:00 PM
I don't mind the statements at the end at all. But, it does make it obvious that it's from a third party. I understand the need to be in compliance with the law.

Do you happen to know how they define commercial purposes? I'm guessing that since I'm not asking for new business (the sale has already been made and I don't have repeat business) that my e-mails may not fit in that category and would be exempt from the Opt-Out requirment. I could be wrong of course.

Patrysha
02-20-2009, 08:12 PM
Hmmm looks a bit murky...perhaps the lawyers out there will pipe in (we did have one didn't we?)

I'd error on the side of caution...but that's me...

CAN-SPAM defines a "commercial electronic mail message" as "any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose)." It exempts "transactional or relationship messages."

Steve B
02-20-2009, 08:22 PM
That sounds like I'm safe. I already have a "relationship" with them and I'm not "advertising or promoting a product" since they already bought it. I'm clarifying the use of the product they already purchased. I do make suggestions that I appreciate referrals - but, that is never the "primary" purpose.

Thanks for all the advice.

I've been collecting e-mails of people that just get a quote from me and have NOT purchased anything, but I haven't used them for anything. Obviously, sending them anything would be in violation of the SPAM laws (as it should be). The only reason they have been collected because they were necessary to send them their quotes.

Patrysha
02-20-2009, 08:39 PM
On further research, yup you're in the clear...

There are no restrictions against a company emailing its existing customers or anyone who has inquired about its products or services, as these messages are classified as "relationship" messages under CAN-SPAM

Steve B
02-20-2009, 08:42 PM
It sounds very similar to telephone soliciting laws then.

Maybe I can even make use of the people that only got a quote from me.

This has been a helpful discussion. I already bumped your rep Patrysha or I'd do it again.

Thanks.

Patrysha
02-20-2009, 10:22 PM
Sweet my first rep points! Thanks :-)

I think combined with winning my son a bowling party by calling the radio station on his birthday, this has been one of the best weeks ever...

Well maybe...getting voted in promotions director for the Chamber of Commerce last month was pretty cool too...

billbenson
02-20-2009, 10:55 PM
The images come through if they are part of the email. The images that you need to click to see them are on a server somewhere, not in your email. At least thats the way Thunderbird works.

Plain text emails aren't as flashy, but they get through more. I send a lot of emals to customers with links embedded. The links almost always get through. Maybe 1% get blocked.

Make a call to your ISP to see at what point the emails get blocked. Break them up and send them over a period of days.

Most spam has faked headers. That's one thing antispam programs look for. Who knows what the email services are doing to your headers.

Steve B
02-21-2009, 04:34 AM
"The images come through if they are part of the email. The images that you need to click to see them are on a server somewhere, not in your email."

Thanks billbenson, that makes sense. The third parties would have a huge database of stock photos they keep on a server. I'll still try to stay away from including my own images because I'm guessing the size of the e-mails becomes a problem too.

Good info. on the link. I figured that wouldn't be too much of a problem - thanks for confirming.

Steve B
02-21-2009, 05:17 AM
"Make a call to your ISP to see at what point the emails get blocked. Break them up and send them over a period of days."

Great advice. I did a little research and found there is a wide variety of limits by the various ISP's. AOL, for instance is 100 recipients per message and 500 per day. Hotmail is 100 per day. Yahoo is 100 per hour. Lycos is 25 per message and 250 per day.

Unfortunately, my provider does not post a number. It is at their "sole discretion".

If anyone is interested in this topic - a lot of good information was found at:
Send Email Limit for SMTP Mail Servers - The Basics (http://www.emailaddressmanager.com/tips/send-email-limit.html)
I think it's a site that sells a program that schedules the sending of e-mails - so you can stay within the limits of your ISP.