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huggytree
02-10-2009, 06:12 PM
ive had numerous elderly customers who have trouble figuring things out.

they need to push or pull harder to make things work

basically i sometimes have to make a special trip back to show them how something works.....they say its installed wrong and when i get there i show them that they need to pull harder on the lever.

ive just accepted this up to now and gone back for free...its happened several times over the years. its money out of my pocket.

how do you handle it?

charge an extra trip charge on every old person job?

charge them when i go back and its something stupid?

just accept it as part of the business?


my old boss used to warn people that if he finds something thats their fault that it will be a trip charge. example: leak in shower - fix: shower head was aimed at the door-turn shower head (this one was a doctor on christmas eve)

vangogh
02-10-2009, 06:19 PM
Why not walk your customers through how things work. Spend 10 minutes before you leave to make sure they can turn things on and off, etc. That should cut down on the trips back and also let your customers know you're there to help them.

orion_joel
02-10-2009, 07:23 PM
Well, you seem to know what the problem often is the user not pushing it hard enough or pulling it or pushing it. Also that it is mostly older people. For the things that you have had this problem before maybe just be ready before you leave to mention the problem you have seen before as something some people do and the way around it is "problem fix". Almost nobody would recognize it as you trying to avoid extra work, but see it as you trying to make sure they dont have the same problem some others have had.

nealrm
02-10-2009, 07:35 PM
I like Vangogh suggestion. Adding a little extra customer service will pay off in the end. Not only will it save you trips, but the good will generated will result in positive word-of-month advertising.

Steve B
02-10-2009, 09:37 PM
What VG said.

Regardless - I wouldn't charge in a situation like that. If you're lucky, you'll be old someday too. Older people often have very tight networks and are very sensitive to being taken advantage of. If they find someone that treats them fairly, they will refer you to their friends. Treating them right could be a huge opportunity if you can have a little patience.

orion_joel
02-10-2009, 10:29 PM
While i do agree with the idea of looking after elderly customers and ensuring that they do not feel like they are being taken advantage off there i think also needs to be a limit to what you can do.

Just taking this particular situation, if you had 2 customers a week like this and had to effectively spend almost as many hours ensuring the customer is happy, after the job is complete and paid for as you billed for initially you are blowing out your hours a lot. If you have a job that is 2 hours and that is what you charge for, but then end up spending another 2 hours going back and showing them something simple that they were ding wrong, that adds a lot of overhead to your job. Especially if you happen to have a full schedule this can greatly impede the level of service that you can offer to your other customers, which will directly affect the results of your business.

Just imagine steve, if you had to go back and spend as much time after you had finished the job to explain things and were not getting paid for this, how would that affect your business.

Steve B
02-11-2009, 04:49 AM
I'd be happy to do it. Especially if they told their friends and I got referrals from them. It would mean an increase in my business and I'd be very happy with that. Increasing my business is a good thing and you'd be surprised how it comes about with a service business.

I actually had a situation most would describe as worse than this recently. I had an elderly customer take up a couple hours of my time and didn't even end up buying anything from me. She had originally scheduled an installation then ended up changing her mind after me and my employee arrived to do the job. She ended up asking a lot of questions and changing her mind. Including travel time, it was two hours for me plus two hours for the guy I was paying that day. She sent me a nice letter telling me how much she appreciated that I didn't pressure her. I may or may not ever get a job from her (or any of her friends), but that's O.K.

Of course, this doesn't mean that following VG's suggestion of a little extra time on education before leaving the house on the original trip isn't a wise thing to do either.

huggytree
02-11-2009, 07:08 AM
it may be somewhat insulting if i go through every little thing with them..

its a fine line between insulting them and walking through how every part functions with them...

the last customer who had issues wasnt there when i finished...of course she was 1 hour away from me too...i got lucky that time and the builder was in the area and took care of it.

thanks for the suggestion...i will spend more time when im on the jobsite with them.

Dan Furman
02-11-2009, 01:24 PM
it may be somewhat insulting if i go through every little thing with them..

its a fine line between insulting them and walking through how every part functions with them...

the last customer who had issues wasnt there when i finished...of course she was 1 hour away from me too...i got lucky that time and the builder was in the area and took care of it.

thanks for the suggestion...i will spend more time when im on the jobsite with them.

why don't you write up a quick "FAQ" (frequently asked questions) that goes over these common things, and leave it with the people when you finish?

huggytree
02-11-2009, 02:20 PM
its always something new...something i thought everyone would know..

who has problems putting in a plug in the garbage disposal hole?
who has problems pulling a drain lever on the back of a bathroom faucet?

its always something different and something you'd never think of...my parents vcr still flashes 12:00....they got a dvd player last year and still dont know how to use it....old people just cant/wont figure things out....

its a good idea Dan, but ive never had the same problem twice (yet)

i mentioned the idea to my wife about walking through every fixture with the customer...she also thinks it would be insulting....she said her dad would be very angry with me if i did that to him.

ill just eat the costs....its still fairly rare and i do try to give old people a break. im going to keep a list of the issues ive had from now on and try to look for patterns.

cocoy
02-11-2009, 03:06 PM
Just tell them, "It's a new lever and it might take more pressure/strength to turn than your old worn out one."

Show them everything is working fine before you leave. Turn the faucets and showers on while they're in the room. Run the hot water, etc... Don't think of it as insulting their intelligence, but a quick run through to verify you did your job right and everything works fine.

vangogh
02-11-2009, 09:07 PM
I really don't think people will be insulted by you walking through and showing them everything is working. It'll come down to how you walk them through. As long as you're not being insulting there's no reason they should feel insulted.

Don't walk people around with the idea that you're teaching them how to turn on a faucet. Treat it like a walk through where you're showing your customers you've done the work. You can let them lead the discussion by any questions they have.

KristineS
02-11-2009, 09:24 PM
I have to agree. I think it's just confirming everything has been done to their satisfaction and giving them an opportunity to ask any questions. If you approach it in that manner I don't think anyone will be insulted.

Steve B
02-13-2009, 07:21 PM
Just a quick update on that elderly customer that wasted a couple hours of my time.

She sent me an e-mail yesterday and wants to have the installation scheduled again.

huggytree
02-14-2009, 08:02 AM
just had an elderly lady call me to start a project that i bid on 5 months ago. I spent 2 hours at her home explaining things..normally 1/2 hour is enough.

my extra time paid off....im going to try to use the advice ive gotten here on her in a few months when i get to the fixture installation phase.

greenwater
02-14-2009, 08:52 AM
Over the years I have had the pleasure of working with alot of retirement aged and elderly. Through those encounters I have learned that alot of the time they find services/products by word of mouth and when I deal with the that has always been in the back of my mind.

As for the cost issue I agree with huggy, if there is a defect in the craftsmanship or the product its on me and if they have created the problem it is on the customer. But this has to be explained from the beginning.

greenoak
02-14-2009, 09:04 AM
i think ...make them do it in front of you...would be great....
.its probably amazing what others dont know about someone elses field or machines.......
ann

kml9870
02-19-2009, 06:11 AM
One of the things I have learned working with computers is that just because I find something to be simple logic doesn't mean that the other person does. I think it's logical that if I type on my keyboard and nothing happens, the first thing to check it the connection to the pc. A lot of people assume that the connection is the same as the last time they hooked the pc up (which could have been years ago and they have vacuumed around it, moved the tower, etc).

Not only is walking them through it showing them you completed the job but it is taking the assumption factor out. I know nothing about garbage disposal systems and I don't consider myself elderly at less than 40 years old :p, and I wouldn't find it insulting if I had one installed and they showed me how it works before leaving my house.

You could also take the approach of "Some of my customers have had problems with...." fill in the blank. You don't have to mention the age of the customers that have had problems.

vangogh
02-19-2009, 11:28 AM
You could also take the approach of "Some of my customers have had problems with...." fill in the blank.

That's a good way to say it. I don't think the basic idea of walking people through the completed job is insulting at all. There are really lots of ways you can do it without making them feel like you're being condescending. The insult or no insult is going to be in the way you say things and not the what you say.

huggytree
02-19-2009, 12:14 PM
"some of my customers have trouble turning the faucet on....see you turn the handle like this......some others have problems pulling the stopper...see how you pull it?.....some have trouble flushing the toilet....see you push this down........and some others have trouble putting this stopper in their garbage disposal...see you set it in here..."

i find all of that very insulting....which of those 4 examples are real world examples of mine and which are not?

the problem is its not rocket science....if they got a digital shower system then yes they need instructions.....but working a faucet? putting a stopper in a garbage disposal?

i know i have a bad attitude about it.....working a plumbing fixture is not rocket science to 99.999% of people....its impossible to figure out which part they will have trouble with....i cant talk them through every lever and working part....its very insulting....its never the same thing twice, so i cant say 'this is a common problem and here's how it works'....its always something new.

this problem isnt really a problem....its 3 times a year or less.....i was just agravated by the latest one and how he acted towards me....i had to vent

KristineS
02-19-2009, 12:24 PM
You're right, if you take it down to the meta level (here's how you turn the faucet) it can get a bit silly.

Still, I don't think there's anything wrong with walking them through the job once you've completed it and demonstrating everything. You don't have to say "here's how you turn on the faucet" but you can certainly demonstrate it under cover of showing them what you did.

My guess is that if you give your customers a bit of time to ask any questions they might have, you'll discover who is potentially going to have problems. A quick walk through should be enough time for them to ask questions if they have them.

vangogh
02-19-2009, 12:51 PM
Sure if you say turn the handle to turn on the faucet it's insulting, but you could also say something like, "I've noticed these faucets sometimes don't always turn off completely unless you close them firmly"

That doesn't come across as insulting, but as helpful advice. Again the basic idea of walking people through your work isn't automatically insulting. It's in how you present it.

billbenson
02-19-2009, 02:22 PM
"I want to make sure everything works to your satisfaction. Can you just run through filling the sink and make sure the hot and cold water works to your satisfaction?

Steve B
02-19-2009, 03:42 PM
I think some people could easily go through the demonstration without being insulting, and would be doing their customers a nice service. But, it's not the kind of thing that everyone can do successfully without sounding a bit consulting - no matter how hard they try. If you don't think you are the kind of person who could do it effectively, you're better off not doing it.

In my business, I walk people through the most basic aspects of my training program and repeat myself several times (yound and old). I hope I'm not being insulting to them. But, what I found out is that dogs are very easy to train compared to people. So, I don't mind walking the edge of being repititive and perhaps insulting because it may ultimately save a dog's life. It may also save me a return trip in the future. I also send out e-mails occasionally reminding people of the things that I repeated to them several times during the training.