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Thread: Do you use Bitcoin or any Crypto Currency?

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    root Array Harold Mansfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    I'm sure the actual technology can be a great tool for large bank type institutions to better track transactions. It's the "virtual currency" that I question. As for not knowing who invented it, well that's a little concerning! You would know better than I, but I would guess that if someone could invent it then someone could hack it.

    I see that they claim that crypto currency production is capped to protect against dilution. A question is who capped it? How do we know it won't be uncapped?
    It's not "virtual" per se'. It's digital. I have money in my wallet that's from real cash. I used actual USD's to buy bitcoin so that I can use it to buy things. People who send me bitcoin have also purchased it with actual money or they got paid in Bitcoin from others who purchased Bitcoin with actual money. The money is Bitcoin is from real cash.

    The only people who "make" bitcoin are miners. It's their reward for providing massive computers that solve the equations which verify the transactions. The miners cannot interfere with transactions, they only provide the computing power to solve the equations for the encrypted transactions. They have no power over specifics and anyone can keep a record of all transactions. This is part of the decentralization. No single point of failure and it can't be tampered with.

    Investing in bitcoin is a different thing than using bitcoin as payment. I have a merchant account that allows me to accept bitcoin and immediate convert that into USD and into my bank account.

    Who capped it? No one. It's how it was developed from start to prevent dilution. The cap is part of the security and algorithm. Not a separate thing.
    Who can remove the cap? Everyone would have to agree. Meaning hundreds of thousands of people The economic majority https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Economic_majority
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    On the investing aspect of crypto. Is it a matter of purchasing crypto with dollars and then hoping it appreciates against the dollar (or other currency)? Basically currency trading. Or do you invest in some crypto company? Just curious.
    Pretty much. You can buy it on your own. You don't need to go through a trader, although there are traders for larger transactions. I think my purchase limit is around $3k mo. if I buy from a card and it's unlimited if I transfer funds directly from my bank account.
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    Also, Bitcoin and Ether are not exactly the same. There are some tech differences that some say make Ether a more stable and useful technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    The crazy part is, no one has any idea who really invented it. It was kind of just given to the world anonymously and people realized that it actually works. .
    I find this to be quite concerning. The conspiracy theorist inside me has set off alarm bells saying be very, very careful. There is no free lunch and I don't believe that the makers of Bitcoin did this out of the goodness of their hearts.
    Brad Miedema
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
    I find this to be quite concerning. The conspiracy theorist inside me has set off alarm bells saying be very, very careful. There is no free lunch and I don't believe that the makers of Bitcoin did this out of the goodness of their hearts.
    Well, the paper is about cryptography and decentralization but yeah, the whole "no one knows who Satoshi Nakamoto is" thing makes my tin foil hat tingle. Tons of conspiracies out there.

    My own theory is that it was more than one person, 4 of the top people in the field at the time.

    I mean if you really want to go all X-Files on it, the timing...just after the banks caused the financial meltdown and all those 99% movements, and countries like Iceland jailing bankers and nationalizing the banks, and the LIBOR scandal and worldwide protests..for it to come out after all that is also the stuff of folklore. Makes me want to put on my Guy Fawkes mask right now.

    Here's the wikipedia page about it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
    I find this to be quite concerning. The conspiracy theorist inside me has set off alarm bells saying be very, very careful. There is no free lunch and I don't believe that the makers of Bitcoin did this out of the goodness of their hearts.

    According to Wikapedia “As of 24 May 2017, Nakamoto (whoever it is) is believed to own up to roughly one million bitcoins,[4] with a value estimated at approximately $7 billion USD as of November 2017.”

    I’m not sure how accurate that estimate is, seems extraordinarily high, but clearly it is a money making opportunity for whoever developed it.

    A bit like a new stock issue from a company. The “founders/insiders” create a “currency” in the form of shares, keep a boat load for themselves, and then create a demand that creates a value convertible to cash. They distribute enough to the public to create a market and then its “cash out” time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    According to Wikapedia “As of 24 May 2017, Nakamoto (whoever it is) is believed to own up to roughly one million bitcoins,[4] with a value estimated at approximately $7 billion USD as of November 2017.”

    I’m not sure how accurate that estimate is, seems extraordinarily high, but clearly it is a money making opportunity for whoever developed it.

    A bit like a new stock issue from a company. The “founders/insiders” create a “currency” in the form of shares, keep a boat load for themselves, and then create a demand that creates a value convertible to cash. They distribute enough to the public to create a market and then its “cash out” time.
    It's kind of hard to accept that no one knows who it is, but then make the assumption that this mystery person owns all of this bitcoin. Really absolutely no way to verify that at all. I also think if true, he ( or whoever they are) would have cashed out by now or at least sold SOME of it. It's been 10 years and they haven't cashed out one dime? Sounds very unlikely or someone is very, very patient. Also considering the volatility, the value could drop at anytime. Seems pretty risky to have never cashed any of it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    It's kind of hard to accept that no one knows who it is, but then make the assumption that this mystery person owns all of this bitcoin. Really absolutely no way to verify that at all. I also think if true, he ( or whoever they are) would have cashed out by now or at least sold SOME of it. It's been 10 years and they haven't cashed out one dime? Sounds very unlikely or someone is very, very patient. Also considering the volatility, the value could drop at anytime. Seems pretty risky to have never cashed any of it out.
    A large part of my skepticism IS the anonymity and mystery around the founders and the concept in general.

    Like the stock guys they liquidate as they can. “sell into the volume” they say. They have probably been cashing out all along. I have no problem with that, just pointing out that, like Fulcrum said, Bitcoin is not a magnanimous gift to society.

    At least with the stock guys the public usually knows who owns the big blocks. Big block insiders have to report their sales. There is the SEC agency and local prosecutors that can prosecute fraud (or least try). If you are a victim of fraud you can attempt to pursue legal remedy. In any case you will know, generally, who defrauded you.

    Many new public companies come out with a bang and then crash and burn as the insiders liquidate. I see the same risk with Crypto. When and if it does who do we blame? At least stock guys have some fear of prosecution to keep them inline. There is no jurisdiction over crypto. They couldn’t even identify the bad guys!

    Feels like a dot.com bubble to me. The first guys in and out made fortunes and then came the crash. Of course Crypto may never crash and might become a strong global currency, but who knows?

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    I, and many experts..even staunch bit coin supporters agree that there needs to be some additional regulation. (but then again so does some aspects of the internet). But like the internet, a country can't effectively control something that it doesn't own other than outlawing it. Bitcoin is not the U.S. dollar. It's a global currency,

    There is some regulation. My bit coin wallets seem to comply with U.S. banking and financial requirements as far as verifying your ID and information.
    I was just as detailed as creating a bank account online or a Pay Pal account. And banks are clearly participating as my accounts are connected. I can cash bitcoin out right into my Pay Pal, checking or savings account. No bull. No fees. No waiting.

    Lot of work to do and I think we will get there. Since the financial institutions are in on it now and they seem to have the ear of Congress to get what they want, I'll bet we'll see something soon. I just hope it's not a gift that gives the Wells Fargo's and Goldman Sach's of the world control. That will ruin it. It's appeal is that it's a global currency. But you know how the United States likes to toss monkey wrenches in something when corporations can't control it.
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    Contrary to my own personal opinions, I can see Bitcoin, or something similar, becoming a (the?) global currency.
    Brad Miedema
    Fulcrum Saw & Tool

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