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Thread: Collecting on overdue invoices

  1. #61
    Post Impressionist Array vangogh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider
    My purpose is get you to think, not just react, and to re-think the results of your former reaction.
    Frederick I think it's great you do this and that you can turn what might be a short lived conversation into a discussion that goes on for pages. Something I've observed though is that there are times I do feel like I've been put on the defensive by you. I'm not entirely sure why either. A few times I've gone back to an early post of yours in a thread and when I reread it it comes across differently to me than when I first read it. On first read my initial reaction was to feel like you were attacking an idea or practice I mentioned, but on reread I can easily see you weren't doing that.

    I have a hunch when you get more reaction than re-think from others here they felt similarly about one of your posts.

    I'm not really sure why it happens. If I notice something in your writing I'll let you know. Maybe it's more me and I just need to reread some of your posts better and sooner if they make me feel that way. Just thought I'd mention it in case there's something either of us can do to move things toward the re-think side of things and away from the reaction side of things.
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  3. #62
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    But again remember this thread was specifically started because one small business wasn't paying or even acknowledging an invoice to another small business. Had Karen initially asked for a $1750 deposit she might still have had to start this thread, but she'd be trying to collect $1750 less.
    Ya, we definitely hijacked this one a bit...
    Last edited by billbenson; 08-18-2010 at 04:46 AM.

  4. #63
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    Maybe some friends here who based in the US can help you or give you some good advice.
    God bless you!

  5. #64
    Member Needs New Keyboard Array Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vangogh View Post
    Frederick I think it's great you do this and that you can turn what might be a short lived conversation into a discussion that goes on for pages. Something I've observed though is that there are times I do feel like I've been put on the defensive by you. I'm not entirely sure why either. A few times I've gone back to an early post of yours in a thread and when I reread it it comes across differently to me than when I first read it. On first read my initial reaction was to feel like you were attacking an idea or practice I mentioned, but on reread I can easily see you weren't doing that...
    Thank you for being forthright, VG. I think that happens for two reasons.

    1. Because written communications gets no assistance from body language, as does spoken communication, it can easily be misunderstood if one writes as one speaks. I compensate by being very precise in what I write, but that may come over as calculating and pointed (like a finger-point accusation, perhaps.)

    1a. In real life, I'm not a particularly talkative person so what I say is usually short and to the point. That may carry an accusatorial tone. It's the engineer in me!

    2. Often I question an idea or suggestions others make. I do it in a spirit of investigation rather than attacking, but if one is so disposed that could easily be construed as attacking.

    2a. One can only feel attacked if they have something to defend. Defending an idea is the purpose of a closed mind. Usually I am trying to open people's minds to other possibilities, and closed minds resist being opened.


    A little on closed minds — The term is often used negatively, but, to me, a closed mind is a necessary attribute of living. We think, we make decisions, and once decided, close our mind to alternatives and act. When setting goals, we close our minds and cast out all other alternatives. We live most of our lives in a closed mind state, and to live constantly with an open mind would have us prevaricating, dithering and being perpetually uncertain. So, we think, decide, we close our minds and we act.

    But the world is not a static place and our immediate environment changes, too. Every now and then, we must set aside our previous decisions, beliefs and goals, and open our minds to new possibilities. Our old beliefs, decisions and goals may no longer be working for us - can even be working against us.

    That's where I come in!!!!


    * As an aside and as an example - I could have felt attacked by your post, VG, but you were expressing an opinion and I have nothing to defend in this regard. I was able to listen without defending and found your comments aligned with my own beliefs. Had they not so aligned, I would have questioned you. I generally find little need for defence and I find that very liberating.

  6. #65
    Get In Where You Fit In Array Harold Mansfield's Avatar
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    We all have personality and communication habits that are a product of our experience. More than a few times the Bartender in me comes out and after 15+ years of drunks, fights, degenerate gamblers, tweakers, cheats and hookers, many times that comes off as cold, to the point and no nonsense...and I only believe what I can prove and what is in front of my face.

    Listening to different opinions definitely helps me calm that part of my personality. I have to really concentrate at times to remember that this ( business) isn't a nightclub and it's not all about some kind of scam or ulterior motive.
    In some ways that experience has helped me, and in others I have to work harder to be a little more business like...if that makes any sense.

  7. #66
    Post Impressionist Array vangogh's Avatar
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    Because written communications gets no assistance from body language
    Absolutely. I think a lot of us probably think we're communicating something, but others are reading it in a completely different way. It's part the nature of the written word and part our own use of the written word. I tend to write as I speak too, though I do try to proof things I write to see if I can make myself clearer. I probably don't do that here as much as I could.

    Often I question an idea or suggestions others make
    That could be a lot of it right there. We're programmed to defend ourselves. One thing you could try is to start off a post by agreeing with something. It's a trick I picked up over the years. If you start written communication off with something positive, a compliment or agreement or similar, it frames the rest of your post and has people feeling less defensive. Same thing with framing the part where you disagree with a question or something "maybe you could try" or similar. I think you do both though.

    closed minds resist being opened.
    Very true. We can probably start a good thread on that quote alone.

    could have felt attacked by your post, VG, but you were expressing an opinion and I have nothing to defend in this regard. I was able to listen without defending and found your comments aligned with my own beliefs. Had they not so aligned, I would have questioned you. I generally find little need for defence and I find that very liberating.
    You know I thought about that as I was writing. And that was one post I did rewrite a few times. Mostly though I figured we knew each other well enough that you wouldn't take it as an attack and more as an observation. Nothing in there was meant to imply you do anything wrong. It was mostly me noticing something about myself and my initial reaction to some things you've posted in comparison to my reaction after rereading them later. I was counting on our relationship over the years helping what I was trying to communicate coming out right.
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  8. #67
    Refugee from the .com Array cbscreative's Avatar
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    The last few posts here remind me of how much I have learned being part of forums, and this one in particular (including the .com before it fell apart). The experiences here have helped not only in my posting style, but in my writing. The fact that body language is missing really changes the dynamics. The exchanges we have here are very helpful in many ways.
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  9. #68
    Get In Where You Fit In Array Harold Mansfield's Avatar
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    I feel like we should all hug.

  10. #69
    Post Impressionist Array vangogh's Avatar
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    Group hug everyone. Shouldn't we have an icon for that?

    Steve I know what you mean. We all take threads in new directions at times and generally in very good ways. I think we all bring new ideas with us that may not be what the thread was originally about, but do end up being valuable.
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