Looking for a graphic artist - Page 2 - Small-Business-Forum.net

KristineS · 10-05-2008, 03:34 PM

People do sometimes help each other out, and there is certainly no harm in asking. You never know what might be possible until you ask.

In this case, it doesn't look like anyone here can do what Chimpie needs, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the question.

SteveC · 10-06-2008, 12:31 AM

Of course there is something wrong with the question... he is a complete stranger here and his second post is asking for someone and most likely someone struggling to make a living... to do his and his friends job for free and for absolutely nothing in return.

If you cannot see what is wrong with that... it goes like this, I value your services so much that I want to use them, in fact I want to also give them away to a friend... and I'm not going to pay you anything... because I don't want too and because I don't value your services as much as wanting to pay anything for them.

If you want to trade services for something I don't have a problem with that, if you want to search out services and pay a minimal amount I don't have a problem with that (as long as I don't have to do them)... but you should not ask anyone to work for you for no pay... especially when you want to give one of the things away to someone else.

Chimpie · 10-06-2008, 01:15 AM

Complete Stranger? I've been around the SBF.com forums for over two years. Sure, I don't log in and post as often as you but I've made my contributions.

lav · 10-19-2008, 12:28 PM

Aaaahhh the old "I want graphic design but I dont want to pay" debate. This is the exact reason why I just may look at getting out of the design industry..... too much work for what people want to pay.... or should i say DONT want to pay

I could imagine the response if I called a plumber and said I want a dripping tap fixed but I dont want to pay for it..... lol

vangogh · 10-19-2008, 11:12 PM

I do find it interesting that when it comes to certain online work like design people have no problem asking to get free work. I hear you about the plumber analogy lav. I usually think of it as someone walking into a store, picking up any product, and asking if they can have it for free.

I think part of the issue is that there are so many tools available for anyone to produce a website that most anyone can get a website online. The problem is most of those people can't build a website that will further the goals of a business. Because publishing online is so easy the value of good design is often missed.

The 'will you work for me for free' question used to bother me a lot, but it's easy enough to ignore the question and I know there are still plenty who do recognize the value in design and are willing to pay for it. I also know there are people willing to take on the free work, which can fill the free requests.

In the end you get what you pay for. I know what I can offer to people is worth a lot more than free and I know there are people out there who can see that too. I also know that we all try to get some things free here or there.

cbscreative · 10-19-2008, 11:59 PM

I'm glad there are free and cheap designers. It gives the people who don't know the value somewhere to go. It keeps me from all the headaches that accompany working with clients who don't appreciate the value. It also makes it easier to help my clients succeed because most of their competitors don't understand the value of good design and go to the cheap designers.

Blessed · 10-21-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbscreative

I'm glad there are free and cheap designers. It gives the people who don't know the value somewhere to go. It keeps me from all the headaches that accompany working with clients who don't appreciate the value. It also makes it easier to help my clients succeed because most of their competitors don't understand the value of good design and go to the cheap designers.

Exactly! I can't tell you how many times I've saved myself frustration by refusing to do free work.

lav · 10-21-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

I'm glad there are free and cheap designers. It gives the people who don't know the value somewhere to go. It keeps me from all the headaches that accompany working with clients who don't appreciate the value.

I used to feel the same way but lately Im finding more and more people are less interested in what good design can do for them but they seem more interested in "how much?"

Its getting harder to sell, I charge less now than what I did 7 years ago for design work but have to give them a lot more. It seems that "the other guy" is always cheaper and in a lot of cases free. I cant make a living out of designing for free.

I had a guy call me about some design work just last week and I asked him to come over and see my portfolio or I could email him some samples of work Ive done, he responded by saying "I dont care about your portfolio I need to know how much......" This seems to be the attitude across the board these days unless its just in my area

cbscreative · 10-21-2008, 06:21 PM

Jason, I can't speak for the attitude in your area, but I do know that the more people have this attitude, the better you will be able to do for your clients. If I can't win them over, I'll gladly help their competitors I can win over take business away from them. Since 80% of all businesses fail in 5 years, and most of those in the first year, I know in advance that I won't win most because they are destined to fail. It's the 20% you want to work with. If you work with the 80%, you lose them when they go under and you then have to find a new client.

Maybe you already know this because it Sales 101, but don't lower prices, raise value. Adobe is not lowering prices for us, Web Premium CS4 is $100 more for both Upgrade and Full than CS3 was. If some fool competitor of mine wants to lower prices when they are paying more for overhead, so be it. I already know that when they go under, another idiot will be right there to take their place anyway. The cycle never stops.

In the past, I've been foolish myself and made many mistakes. I came to realize that the majority is not right. The majority fail, the majority are broke, the majority are slaves to the system, the majority are deeply in debt, and the majority have been deliberately and systematically dumbed down. I have no desire to rejoin them, though I still have plenty far to go to break completely free. It starts with getting your thinking right.

orion_joel · 10-22-2008, 02:06 AM

I am glad that it is a fairly similar story in the IT industry, there is almost always someone willing to build a computer cheaper. That means that if i want this business i have to cut my margins to the bone, and effectively give them away the first time i have to do any warranty work should it be needed. At one point i was down to less then 3% margin, to one customer, however the warranty was they diagnose the problem and the parts are replaced. This worked reasonably well as none had any issues. However i would have almost lost money as soon as i did any warranty work on them, even just replacing parts.

So i am happy to work with the fact that there are people out there willing to spend lots of money putting together a good retail presence, and who are willing to cut their margins. Because it means i can focus on the higher quality products and the people who can understand paying more gets you better quality and service. For the people that just want a basic cheap product this is almost always a hard bridge to cross and one that is often easier to avoid then to try and cross.

10-05-2008, 03:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
KristineS Queen of the Forum Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 2,378 Reputation: 34	People do sometimes help each other out, and there is certainly no harm in asking. You never know what might be possible until you ask. In this case, it doesn't look like anyone here can do what Chimpie needs, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the question. __________________ Settling for More\| When I'm Thin\|The Tenderfoot Diaries\| Outdoor Bloggers Summit Blog\|

10-06-2008, 12:31 AM	#12 (permalink)
SteveC Member Needs New Keyboard Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 168 Reputation: 23	Of course there is something wrong with the question... he is a complete stranger here and his second post is asking for someone and most likely someone struggling to make a living... to do his and his friends job for free and for absolutely nothing in return. If you cannot see what is wrong with that... it goes like this, I value your services so much that I want to use them, in fact I want to also give them away to a friend... and I'm not going to pay you anything... because I don't want too and because I don't value your services as much as wanting to pay anything for them. If you want to trade services for something I don't have a problem with that, if you want to search out services and pay a minimal amount I don't have a problem with that (as long as I don't have to do them)... but you should not ask anyone to work for you for no pay... especially when you want to give one of the things away to someone else. __________________ Steve Cartwright FX Digital Pty Ltd Website Design \| Promote your Website \| Rent a Website

10-19-2008, 12:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
lav Member Needs New Keyboard Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 119 Reputation: 15	Aaaahhh the old "I want graphic design but I dont want to pay" debate. This is the exact reason why I just may look at getting out of the design industry..... too much work for what people want to pay.... or should i say DONT want to pay I could imagine the response if I called a plumber and said I want a dripping tap fixed but I dont want to pay for it..... lol __________________ The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing l www.jasoncoe.com.au l l www.xlgrafix.com l l Find me on Facebook l l Follow me on Twitter l

10-19-2008, 11:12 PM	#15 (permalink)
vangogh Post Impressionist Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 6,445 Reputation: 59	I do find it interesting that when it comes to certain online work like design people have no problem asking to get free work. I hear you about the plumber analogy lav. I usually think of it as someone walking into a store, picking up any product, and asking if they can have it for free. I think part of the issue is that there are so many tools available for anyone to produce a website that most anyone can get a website online. The problem is most of those people can't build a website that will further the goals of a business. Because publishing online is so easy the value of good design is often missed. The 'will you work for me for free' question used to bother me a lot, but it's easy enough to ignore the question and I know there are still plenty who do recognize the value in design and are willing to pay for it. I also know there are people willing to take on the free work, which can fill the free requests. In the end you get what you pay for. I know what I can offer to people is worth a lot more than free and I know there are people out there who can see that too. I also know that we all try to get some things free here or there. __________________ l Search Engine Friendly Web Design \| Van SEO Design l Tips On Marketing, SEO, Design, and Development \| TheVanBlog l Custom WordPress Themes

10-19-2008, 11:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
cbscreative Refugee from the .com Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Right here Posts: 1,668 Reputation: 43	I'm glad there are free and cheap designers. It gives the people who don't know the value somewhere to go. It keeps me from all the headaches that accompany working with clients who don't appreciate the value. It also makes it easier to help my clients succeed because most of their competitors don't understand the value of good design and go to the cheap designers. __________________ Steve Chittenden Graphic design, web design, professional writing, and marketing. "Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt

10-06-2008, 01:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Chimpie Member With Stressed Keyboard Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 26 Reputation: 10	Complete Stranger? I've been around the SBF.com forums for over two years. Sure, I don't log in and post as often as you but I've made my contributions.

10-21-2008, 06:21 PM	#19 (permalink)
cbscreative Refugee from the .com Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Right here Posts: 1,668 Reputation: 43	Jason, I can't speak for the attitude in your area, but I do know that the more people have this attitude, the better you will be able to do for your clients. If I can't win them over, I'll gladly help their competitors I can win over take business away from them. Since 80% of all businesses fail in 5 years, and most of those in the first year, I know in advance that I won't win most because they are destined to fail. It's the 20% you want to work with. If you work with the 80%, you lose them when they go under and you then have to find a new client. Maybe you already know this because it Sales 101, but don't lower prices, raise value. Adobe is not lowering prices for us, Web Premium CS4 is $100 more for both Upgrade and Full than CS3 was. If some fool competitor of mine wants to lower prices when they are paying more for overhead, so be it. I already know that when they go under, another idiot will be right there to take their place anyway. The cycle never stops. In the past, I've been foolish myself and made many mistakes. I came to realize that the majority is not right. The majority fail, the majority are broke, the majority are slaves to the system, the majority are deeply in debt, and the majority have been deliberately and systematically dumbed down. I have no desire to rejoin them, though I still have plenty far to go to break completely free. It starts with getting your thinking right. __________________ Steve Chittenden Graphic design, web design, professional writing, and marketing. "Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt

10-22-2008, 02:06 AM	#20 (permalink)
orion_joel Member Needs New Keyboard Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,218 Reputation: 21	I am glad that it is a fairly similar story in the IT industry, there is almost always someone willing to build a computer cheaper. That means that if i want this business i have to cut my margins to the bone, and effectively give them away the first time i have to do any warranty work should it be needed. At one point i was down to less then 3% margin, to one customer, however the warranty was they diagnose the problem and the parts are replaced. This worked reasonably well as none had any issues. However i would have almost lost money as soon as i did any warranty work on them, even just replacing parts. So i am happy to work with the fact that there are people out there willing to spend lots of money putting together a good retail presence, and who are willing to cut their margins. Because it means i can focus on the higher quality products and the people who can understand paying more gets you better quality and service. For the people that just want a basic cheap product this is almost always a hard bridge to cross and one that is often easier to avoid then to try and cross. __________________ Joel Brown No Fixed Office - Orion Networks - My Business Blog