Do you ever get an email hours or days after it was sent?

[Harold Mansfield]

I know email isn't promised to be instant, although we have gotten used to it being so.

I was wondering if any of you ever get emails as late as days later after they were sent?

It's not every email, it's just one or 2 a week, or sometimes it doesn't happen at all for weeks.

I've checked with my host, ISP, double checked outlook and every other thing that could be delaying them on my end, and I'm clean. The late emails in question aren't getting "stuck" or delayed on my end because I'm getting them as soon as they hit my servers. But I can see when they were sent and it obviously doesn't match when I got them.

I know how fragile the internet really is and that a million things can go wrong between 2 computers, and information sent between 2 different servers, but I was just wondering if anyone else noticed the same and if there was any rhyme or reason that you figured out to help alleviate it?

[MyITGuy]

Not here. Is it only happening with a specific sender/domain or multiple senders/domains?

If you want to post or PM me the mail headers I'll take a look and provide some insight on where the issue may be at.

If you're not sure on how to get the Mail Headers, let me know what version of Outlook you're running

[Harold Mansfield]

I already did the headers thing with my host a couple of times and they say all is well on my end.

I'm running Outlook 2010, but even if I go straight to the server it doesn't matter, the emails in question aren't arriving within a reasonable time of when they are sent.

And it seems to only be a couple of senders. Both of them send from Macs.

I'm almost positive it's on the senders end, but they are insistent that it isn't and it must somehow be my fault, so aren't receptive to even checking. It's very frustrating.

And I also know that you can't compare the speed of internal emails (which never leave the server) to every other combination of email communication.

God forbid I should mention that email was never promised to be instant, that's why there's a thing called "Instant Messaging". People don't want to hear that these days.

[nealrm]

There are several reason both legit and sleazy. It is possible to fake the date and time an email was sent. Some email spammer will set the date for a future time so that the email will be at the top of the list. This works because many people sort their email based on date/time.

Another reason is that when email was written, many times it is not sent immediately. The computer checks the server every x minutes. At that point emails are sent and received. If the computer is turned off before then the email will stay in the computer queue until the next time the server is accessible. Depending on the users that can be hours, days or weeks.

[Freelancier]

The sent date header is usually added when the e-mail is created... but if the user isn't online or their Outlook is stuck or whatever, it could be held up for a while before it hits their upstream server. But ordinarily, if everything is working, there's no clear reason why it would happen.

[Harold Mansfield]

Another reason is that when email was written, many times it is not sent immediately. The computer checks the server every x minutes. At that point emails are sent and received. If the computer is turned off before then the email will stay in the computer queue until the next time the server is accessible. Depending on the users that can be hours, days or weeks.

This was along the lines of what I thought was happening, but with one sender in particular, even when we are on the phone and each at our computers, her emails sometimes just never show up and then it'll pop in 2 days later with the date and time from 2 days before.

[nealrm]

I could be the communications between her email server and yours. Email servers also check every x minutes or a specific time. This can be repeated several times between your computer and hers. It most areas, the servers are checking once a minute. However, if they are in a more rural area or an area where the bandwidth is limited, those checks could may be once an hour or longer.

[MyITGuy]

I already did the headers thing with my host a couple of times and they say all is well on my end.


Yeah, but the headers can help pinpoint where the issue really is since every hop the e-mail takes, there will be a server name and date/time stamp, and then you can share this with the sender if the issue is on their end.

Since the headers may contain private info, feel free to PM them to me.

[Harold Mansfield]

Ok, I'll send you one of the headers from one that was delayed a day.

[MyITGuy]

Ok, I'll send you one of the headers from one that was delayed a day.

Got it, reviewed it and PMed you the results.

In short, the senders mail server(s) are on several blacklists which is likely the cause for the delay. Either it finally hit a server in your providers spam/mail cluster that is not configured to use blacklists or is mis-configured and is allowing spam through that should be denied.

[Harold Mansfield]

First of all thanks for looking at the header info Jeff, here's what I did next.

First I checked the IP address of that sent email and confirmed that it is indeed blacklisted on about 4 services.

Then I contacted Bluehost with the information and they agreed and acknowledged that this happens when one of thier account holders spams people, and that they try to get IP address delisted as quick as possible, but some of the listing services want to be paid to be removed and they basically tell them to go screw themselves. That's why the IP address can come back clean on 50 services and be blacklisted on 3 or 4.

They also said that each sent email rotates through a range of IP address, which is probably why I get most emails, and only get the others when they are sent a second time.

They also said that I can whitelist the IP address on my server so that it is no longer blocked.

[MyITGuy]

First of all thanks for looking at the header info Jeff
Not a problem at all!


Then I contacted Bluehost with the information and they agreed and acknowledged that this happens when one of thier account holders spams people
After reviewing the blacklist information, looks like it was several account holders over the course of several days/weeks. Honestly, they are using an outbound proxy...they should have some form of filtering here to detect/block spam before it even hits the web. The costs for this setup/service would be much less then the cost of manpower and loss of business associated to being on a blacklist.


they try to get IP address delisted as quick as possible, but some of the listing services want to be paid to be removed and they basically tell them to go screw themselves. That's why the IP address can come back clean on 50 services and be blacklisted on 3 or 4.

I'm only aware of 1 or 2 providers who charge or say go screw yourselves (They haven't blacklisted the senders host yet)...but yes there is a process and sometimes this could involve paying to be removed/white listed, or having to wait for a mandatory cooling off period (I.E. No spam/honeypot alerts in X hours/days/weeks)


They also said that I can whitelist the IP address on my server so that it is no longer blocked.

This request would have to be passed up to your host so they can add it as an exclusion to their filters...but I would highly doubt this as no admin would whitelist an IP/Range that is associated to almost 2 million domains and is known for sending spam.

At most, you could whitelist the e-mail address/domain in your own account...but this wouldn't have any affect if the mail server/IP is still on a blacklist.

[Harold Mansfield]

This request would have to be passed up to your host so they can add it as an exclusion to their filters...but I would highly doubt this as no admin would whitelist an IP/Range that is associated to almost 2 million domains and is known for sending spam.
So they just told me that they don't recommend it.



At most, you could whitelist the e-mail address/domain in your own account...but this wouldn't have any affect if the mail server/IP is still on a blacklist.
This looks like the way to go.

Thanks.

[billbenson]

It sounds like you are using the mail server from your web host rather than the server from your ISP to send email. You can set up your email program to use your ISP's IP to send the email. If your ISP's IP ever get's black listed you should be able to reboot your router and get a new dynamic IP (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

[Harold Mansfield]

It sounds like you are using the mail server from your web host rather than the server from your ISP to send email. You can set up your email program to use your ISP's IP to send the email. If your ISP's IP ever get's black listed you should be able to reboot your router and get a new dynamic IP (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

My web host isn't the one with the blacklisted IP addresses. The problem wasn't on my end. It was with the sender who is on shraed hosting. I definitely do not want to use my ISP's servers. I have a dedicated server with multiple IP addresses that I like having to myself very much, so I should never have to worry that any of my IP addresses will ever be blacklisted.

[billbenson]

Ya, the issue is when you have a shared server and someone on the server gets blacklisted. It takes the whole server out.

[Harold Mansfield]

You know, after going through this I now vaguely remember 3 years ago when I was upgrading to a dedicated server what my support guy was telling me about having my own server and not being at the mercy of the actions of other account holders. It went right over my head then, but now I get it.

[billbenson]

But remember, if you screw up on any site on your dedicated host it will affect all sites using that IP. A simple error could potentially take out all of your emails. On the positive side, its pretty quick and easy to get a new IP. Servers resolve pretty quick these days.

[Harold Mansfield]

But remember, if you screw up on any site on your dedicated host it will affect all sites using that IP. A simple error could potentially take out all of your emails. On the positive side, its pretty quick and easy to get a new IP. Servers resolve pretty quick these days.

I'm no Zuckerberg, but I'm better than that. The entire reason I got away from shared hosting was to get away from other people and have my own stuff. I remember the first time I called tech support because I thought my site was slow and they explained the whole thing to me about shared hosting, I was mortified to think that my site depended on strangers not screwing things up.
And that was before I even knew anything.

[billbenson]

Ya, I know. I just pointed that out for others that might be reading this thread.

[MyITGuy]

On the positive side, its pretty quick and easy to get a new IP.
Not so much the case these days. IPv4 resources are getting thin and some data centers/hosts are only issuing/changing IP's when they have proper/sufficient justification.


Servers resolve pretty quick these days.But it can still take up to 24 hours in some/most cases depending on the DNS Server Administrators Cache policies.

[MyITGuy]

The entire reason I got away from shared hosting was to get away from other people and have my own stuff. I remember the first time I called tech support because I thought my site was slow and they explained the whole thing to me about shared hosting, I was mortified to think that my site depended on strangers not screwing things up.
And that was before I even knew anything.

:agreed:! Thankfully CloudLinux is now available that allows hosts to cap the amount of resources that a user can consume...but this comes at an additional expense that some hosts dont want...and still if you get a handful of users with popular sites or etc then your in the same bucket...

Me personally, I prefer to have full control which is what I have for the most part. I don't have control of the DC network, but can access/manage everything else in my rack.