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View Full Version : It's time for Apple to make iTunes accessible to all.



Harold Mansfield
06-13-2012, 01:41 PM
I love iTunes. To me, hands down it's the best music and entertainment application. Not so sold on the movie prices, but for music, radio and podcasts, you can't beat it.
However, I think the days of Apple controlling the device market are over. Recent reports are saying that Android phones are outselling iPhones and Windows is about to go full throttle on their own phone.

But you can't use iTunes on anything except Apple products, or your PC. And that is very inconvenient for people who want to use it everywhere on all of their devices.
I just updated iTunes and Ping, Apple's attempt at a social networking site, is gone. To me, it could have been great, but it failed because it's a closed network inside of a software that can only be used on certain devices, and you couldn't share anything in it with the outside world.
Apple to kill social network Ping, report says - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/13/tech/social-media/apple-kills-social-network-ping/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories)

I think in order for Apple to secure their position at the top of the music food chain, they HAVE to make iTunes a truly global, easily accessible app for everyone, or they are poised to loose market share to services that may not be as good, but are more convenient to use.

Anyone use iTunes and feel the same way?

vangogh
06-13-2012, 04:53 PM
I do use iTunes, but don't feel the same way. Granted I don't have the same problems you're having since iTunes works on all my devices.

First Ping. I think when they launched it they were negotiating with Facebook and Ping was more going to be something connecting Facebook users than its own social network. The deal fell apart over how much customer information Apple would share with Facebook and we were left with Ping as we've known it these last couple of years. I don't think there's anyone who considers Ping even remotely successful. The last year has seen Apple work out a deal with Twitter and now Facebook to better integrate the two networks into both OS X and iOS and with that I think Ping isn't really needed. We'll probably end up with what they thought Ping would be in the first place though without the name.

As far as iTunes needing to work with Android I doubt Apple is all that concerned. Unless they find sales through iTunes falling I doubt they'll feel the need to develop something for Android, though who knows. Apple and Google aren't exactly friendly any more and I think iTunes on Android would probably help Google more than it does Apple. Many people with Android phones have other ways to get to iTunes and will probably continue to use it. Having iTunes only on iOS might be a competitive advantage for Apple helping them sell more phones and tablets. I don't see why they would necessarily give that up.

I don't think Apple has to do anything here. I understand that you want them to, but from their point of view they're currently doing fine without porting iTunes to Android. You'll probably sooner see an iTunes app for Facebook. I wouldn't expect to see Apple and Google playing nice anytime in the near future.

Harold Mansfield
06-13-2012, 05:28 PM
Well, there's 3 things that make me say that.

1. Google is really promoting music and movies through Play. (Google's Android app store), and it's really easy to use. Every other music service has apps for the most used platforms, except Apple.

2. Microsoft who has been known to be just as proprietary, is putting out apps for their products for Android and iOS, even though they have their own platform. They are making it easy for everyone to use their products.

3. iTunes is a store. It's not as if I'm saying they should make a Siri app. I'm saying that if they want to continue being the number one retailer, they need to make the store accessible to everyone who is a potential customer. I don't see it as a competitive advantage anymore. iTunes WAS the deciding factor into whether I purchased an iPod or a Zune. Then.

But this is now. World changed. Market changed. Samsung is the #1 phone maker. They aren't alone anymore. And it alone is not going to be the deciding factor of whether I buy an iPhone, Android or Windows phone. They've been down this road before, and lost significant market share in the PC and laptop market. The iPod and then the phone saved them. Unless they have another ground breaking, industry changing piece of hardware out there, they SHOULD at least consider it.

What I'm saying is, "I'd love to continue being a customer of your store. Can you make it convenient for me to continue shopping there please?" The same as every other business. Exclusivity in retail is a pretty short leash and even harder to pull off in such a populated space where you can buy music pretty much anywhere.

Just my opinion of course.

vangogh
06-13-2012, 06:53 PM
If I'm not mistaken Google Music currently doesn't have Warner Brothers on board and I think Warner accounts for more than 25% of all music sold. I doubt Apple sees it as a major threat at the moment. Anyone wanting Warner Brothers music would need to find another option. Microsoft and others would also need to prove they can be threats before I think this affects Apple.

Most importantly though Apple's profit comes from the sale of hardware. While they make money through iTunes and the App stores that money represents a very small part of their revenue at the moment. iTunes mainly exists as a way to get people to buy iPods and iPhones and Macs, which is where their profit is. The retail stuff is nice side revenue, but it's not something that's been critical to Apple's success.

What's happening today isn't comparable to what happened during the Mac vs PC era of the 80's and 90's. That was a different time with different circumstances. Where market share is concerned there's more to the numbers than what appears on the surface. Since Apple started working with carriers beyond AT&T it's market share has grown here in the U.S. while Android has stalled. Samsung as a company makes lots of phones. Apple makes one (3 if you want to count the 3 different versions of that one phone). Of course the company that makes more phones is going to sell more phones overall. And don't forget Apple still makes by far the most money in the space. Market share isn't the end all and be all.

Google has made some enemies along the way, Apple being one of them. Starting with iOS 6, Google Maps is out and Apple's own mapping is in. Apple will also be replacing Google as the default search engine in China. Google may have also pissed off some of the phone makers by purchasing Motorola. Google insists it won't favor Motorola phones, but we'll see. Since Android is open there's nothing to stop phone makers from eventually using it as the base of their own operating system. If they all continue to use Android as produced by Google, there's little to distinguish one from the other. It's quite possible they'll go the way of the Kindle and use Android to build something else.

Having said all that Apple is supposed to be working on a significant upgrade to iTunes. I had thought they might announce it at WWDC this week, but it probably makes more sense for them to announce it in the fall when they hold their media event, assuming it's ready then. That's when the next iPhone will likely debut and when iPods will get a refresh. Who knows maybe they are working to make iTunes easier for non-Apple customers.

I still wouldn't expect Apple and Google to be working together much in the near future. Historically Apple hasn't built much software for anything outside their own platforms. The bundle you get with iTunes on Windows is an exception. I don't see them changing that now, nor do I think they have to. They also don't like Google and it's hard to seem them building something specifically for Google's customers. I think for Apple's point of view, iTunes not being on Android is a reason to buy an iPhone, iPod, or iPad more than it is a reason to choose another music service.

Harold Mansfield
06-13-2012, 07:02 PM
MS was once the arch enemy of Google too. But now they seem to have accepted each other's place in the world. Bing Maps work just as good on my Android phone as Google maps. No proprietary BS there, and I'm happy about that. I think it works out best when everyone plays well with each other.
Not just for consumers, but for the companies.

What you are saying is of course right, and makes sense. But as a consumer, it feels wierd to have to hope that a company makes it easier for me to continue doing business with them.
I love my iPod, but I'm not as attached to it as I was before getting a decent smart phone. It is due for a major upgrade. If they come up with a new model that is just fabulus, I'll still get another one.
But I don't NEED it anymore just to hold, and listen to my iTunes music on the go. Right now, I love iTunes because I'm at my desk and I run internet radio all day long. So I'll probably always use it no matter what. At least for that.

vangogh
06-13-2012, 07:55 PM
I completely understand where you're coming from. If I were you I'd feel the same way. I think from Apple's point of view the solution to your problem is to make your next phone an iPhone. They might even feel confident that thats the solution you'll eventually opt for. Their goal isn't to make it easier for you to use your Android phone. They want you inside their ecosystem and so are motivated to make things easier when you use their products.

Aren't there want o move your music to your phone? I assume you have iTunes on your PC. Can't you move the files?


MS was once the arch enemy of Google too. But now they seem to have accepted each other's place in the world.

I think some of these companies tolerate each other when they have to, but the moment they don't have to the acceptance disappears. Apple and Google used to be allies united against Microsoft. Eric Schmidt sat on Apple's board and was even on stage when Steve Jobs showed off the original iPhone. But then Schmidt took what he saw at Apple back to Google and Android changed to be more iPhonelike. Jobs saw it as a betrayal. He's not running Apple now, but I think the company still feels betrayed. You probably didn't watched the WWDC Keynote from earlier in the week. There were quite a few digs at Google and it ditching Google Maps and Google search in favor of Baidu in China will probably hurt Google's bottom line and I'm sure Apple is perfectly fine with that.

Harold Mansfield
06-13-2012, 08:13 PM
Of course I can transfer anything to my phone. Now. I have all of my music there.... iTunes, CD's, Amazon Music, Beatport, Tracksource. It's all completelycompatible and organized.

I still think that playing the "exclusivity" game didn't work out so well for Apple the last time. And like I said, iTunes is a store. It's not exactly a feature. It's job is to sell product. It was easy being the number one music retailer when you had the number one device on the market, everyone had it, and there was little or no competition. But now what?

You aren't shipping the most phones. Samsung is. And iOS isn't the most popular operating system anymore. It's only a matter of time before that trend continues and the Google Play store is the number one music download store. Especially if your store is closed to the people with the most amount of devices and they can't access it without some inconvenience and definitely not while they have their devices that they use to play the music in their hand.

Even Microsoft ( glutton for punishment that they are) is getting back into the music game via XBOX. And then just announced today there's an XBOX/Android app that does something or other...but they are up to something. MS has been coming out with a lot of functional apps lately and they don't suck.

iTunes can't hold it forever if it's not open to the entire market.

And the other thing is, people like me and you have a tendancy to be faithful. Kids, who buy the majority of the music, have NO loyalty. They are going to use whatever you put in front of them if it's easy and convenient. If that's iTunes this year, and XBOX music next year because they got a new Windows phone...so be it. As long as it has the tracks they want to download.

vangogh
06-13-2012, 09:08 PM
If you can transfer everything to your phone where's the problem? I think that's what Apple would ask. If you're buying music from iTunes anyway why would they feel the need to develop an app for you?

I don't think this is some kind of exclusivity game. iTunes is freely available in many places. You don't have to buy an Apple product to get it. And again this time isn't like last time. That argument assumes there can only be one player in tech markets and I don't think that's true anymore. People have been saying it would take down the iPod, but the only thing that put a dent in iPod sales has been the iPhone.


You aren't shipping the most phones. Samsung is. And iOS isn't the most popular operating system anymore.

Shipping numbers aren't sales numbers. Products that get shipped don't automatically get bought by anyone. Apple reports sales numbers and Samsung reports shipping numbers. You can't compare one to the other since they aren't the same thing. Also samsung still ships plenty of dumb phones. Again it's not a fair comparison since the same thing isn't being compared.

I agree though that Android holds more marketing share in phones worldwide. However over the last year the iPhone has market share has increased here in the U.S. Once the iPhone started selling outside of AT&T it's grown. It's the #1 selling phone at the top 3 carriers in the U.S. The world isn't the U.S. of course. As far as iOS not being the most popular operating system you're right. Symbian is the most popular. Android and iOS are running neck and neck. As Windows gets more into the market they'll likely take marketing share from Android more than iOS.


It's only a matter of time before that trend continues and the Google Play store is the number one music download store.

Is it? Android has yet to break into the tablet market in any significant way. There's more room to grow at the moment in tablets than smart phones. Assuming Microsoft can come in and succeed it's hard to say where anyone's market share will be in a few years. Google Play is still missing the record label with the most music and it doesn't look like they'll be making a deal any time soon. I wouldn't be so sure Google Play will be #1, especially if it only has 70% or so of the music.


iTunes can't hold it forever if it's not open to the entire market.

1. You can get iTunes now so how is it not open to you?
2. Why do you assume it has to be the most popular store to be profitable for Apple?

Take computers. Apple has about 10% market share in computer sales. They still make most of the profit in the industry. They don't need to be the most popular to do well. They make the most money in the phone market now and they're probably the only company making money in the tablet market.


Kids, who buy the majority of the music, have NO loyalty.

Those kids will grow up just like you and I did and they'll form loyalties as they do. If a kid now has an iPhone and spends a couple of years buying apps for iOS and music through iTunes, they're not going to want to lose those apps and music. Odds are their next phone is an iPhone too. If anything where music is concerned kids are heading toward streaming services like Spotify and Rdio.

Harold Mansfield
06-13-2012, 09:21 PM
I agree with you in every aspect, but we are making 2 different arguments.
You are looking at it from a company, hardware, proprietary software aspect. And all of you arguments make sense.

I'm looking at it as an online retailer. At least that's what they were called when they were named the number one online music retailer.
But they aren't REALLY an online retailer of you have to download software to access the store. At least not like Amazon is a retailer.
But I guess the same can be said for the Play store too.

I don't think they should do it just because I want it, or it would be convenient for people. I think they should do it if they want to remain the biggest music retailer. Adjust. Make a move. Be number one regardless of which phone people own.

Instant gratification (buy it NOW) will always beat, go home, connect your phone to your computer, open iTunes, download it, and then sync the new songs to your phone.

Harold Mansfield
06-14-2012, 11:09 AM
I will say this though. iTunes still holds the edge when it comes to selection and pure size of catelog. I listen to mostly Dance Music and generally you have to go to a specialty online store like Tracksource or Beatport to get the that genre. As far as "mainstram" music stores, iTunes does keep up better than EVERY OTHER music service. All of the others are notoriously horrible and thier selection rediculously out of date. It's like if you asked your grandmother to make you a mix tape, and she puts on a bunch of songs that she head the kids like today.

vangogh
06-15-2012, 01:26 PM
I'm looking at it as an online retailer.

Right, but Apple doesn't consider itself an online retailer. They aren't going to make decisions based on being an online retailer. Maybe things will be different in the future, but right now Apple uses it's online retail business as a way to get customers into its ecosystem to get them to buy products. You have to consider their decisions in terms of what they consider their business to be.

I'm not looking at this from my perspective of what Apple could or should do. I'm looking at it from their perspective based on the history and current business model of the company. They could certainly break from history and it's possible their business model changes or expands, but I'd want to see some proof of either first.


I think they should do it if they want to remain the biggest music retailer.

That assumes their goal is to remain the biggest music retailer. I'm not so sure it is. I did a little searching and found for Q2 of 2012, Apple's revenue was $39.2 billion (http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/24/apple-q2-2012-earnings-report-ipad-iphone-sales/). Revenue through iTunes for the same quarter was $1.98 billion (http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/24/apples-itunes-stores-generates-1-9b-in-revenue-in-q2-has-600000-apps/) or about 5% of total revenue. However, the iTunes revenue includes revenue from the sale of apps and books, so that $1.98 billion isn't just music and video. Apple takes in less than 5% of total revenue via music and video.

I don't have profit numbers, but I suspect Apple makes a lot more profit from things other than the sale of music and video. Ultimately iTunes makes up a small % of Apple's profits. All of this could change. For all we know Apple does want to maintain it's lead with music sales. Rumor keeps suggesting we'll see something from them on the TV front, which would certainly include iTunes as a purchasing mechanism. Another rumor has them pushing into digital wallets. They do currently have 400 billion active iTunes accounts with credit cards, which does increase the value of iTunes if they want to move in this direction.

Mostly though I think the reason you shouldn't expect an iTunes app is that historically Apple doesn't develop much software for platforms other than their own and they don't see Google as a friend. They see Google as an enemy they'd like to break. Given that, I don't see why they would develop anything for Android. I think they're more focused on doing things that will lead to less people using Android. Maybe that turns out to be short sighted, but I think it's how they view the situation.


iTunes still holds the edge when it comes to selection and pure size of catelog.

That alone probably keeps you using iTunes even without an Android app. As long as that's true I don't see where not having an app is going to hurt Apple.