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ParaTed2k
11-14-2011, 02:54 AM
Ok, we have established that there isn't much appreciation felt when we get generic "gifts" with the senders' names, contact information and pics on them. I have also learned from you here at the forum that the people who make the decisions don't usually ever see these "gifts" anyway.

So that brings up the next question. What kinds of gifts would you help you feel like the sender truly appreciates you and your business? What would knock your socks off to the point that you would actually be excited to receive it?

When we receive something exciting, we want to show everyone. We can't wait to share the happiness, or just show off what we got.

I've seen and heard of this level of excitement over something in the mail from a business associate, customer, client.. etc. So I know it can be achieved.

So what would bring you to this level of excitement over a show of appreciation?

Steve B
11-14-2011, 06:01 AM
I realize I'm a scrooge etc., but, to be honest - nothing. I hate getting gifts. It's impossible for anyone to know what I truly need - so almost everything that people have given me ends up in the trash or a yard sale (or worse, I trip over it and dust it for a few years then throw it out). I then feel terrible about the wasted energy and use of the landfill space for what I just threw away.

If it was significant enough of a gift to actually get me excited (i.e. a new car), I wouldn't like it because it would feel like I was being bribed. The only type of gift that would minimize the waste of someone trying to give me a gift would be it if was something edible - then, at least it usually gets consumed instead of just thrown out.

I realize I'm quite unique on this topic, so just ignore what I'm telling you and listen to the many good suggestions that are going to be given after this post. :)

ParaTed2k
11-14-2011, 06:34 AM
Steve B, no I'm looking for everyone's responses, so yours is just as legitimate as any other. I'm looking for information that will help me build my business on realistic and honest information, so the fact that not everyone will benefit from what I'll be offering helps too.

greenoak
11-14-2011, 08:03 AM
the best one i give is laginappe...like a freebie to the woman who brings in a big spending daughter..... and the nice one i get sometimes is a coupon in an order with some related special i would actually use...or freebie extras of something i ordered...
but candy or cookies and a anice note ,like you have, would be nice too....for here...i just dont have the time or havent bothered to organize the process.... there are a lot of folks i wish i had sent something like that to tho... .maybe if someone could show what could be sent and for how much if we sent 10 or 50 etc...it would work... especially if you did all the work.... our printer guy sends freebie post it notes with our name on them...
we do want to show appreciation....but when i look at the promo catalogs most in the under 2$$ range just looks like plastic trash that no one wouldnt want ... i do like pens and maybe yardsticks.... or a calendar

mailorder
11-14-2011, 10:25 AM
If your running a business what % of the product sold do you put into a “gift fund”?
I would rather have that % just taken off the price of what I’m buying.
If I was a normal shopper and I was going to get something than a 10% discount on my next purchase would be nice. I would be making a larger order than normal...
If you send me a something that I'm not going to use I'll think twice before using you services.


I added 15 cents to the cost of shipping and handling to handle “gifts”. I toss a little something in every box. Like blow pop, tinny bag of skittles, during the winter I’ll ship M&M's, or sometimes a pack of blades. If it looks like someone is ordering a bunch of different types of blades I'll toss in a type they did not order. (I sell shaving supply’s)

KristineS
11-14-2011, 12:33 PM
What would blow my socks off, something that let me know the company knew me and put some thought into what they sent or offered me. I'm not a huge fan of generic gifts of any kind. I much prefer something, even if it is just a small something, that shows me that whomever sent it put some thought into getting something I would like and enjoy. There's enough information out there on most people now days that you can get some idea of what they might like or use. To me the gifts that work best are the ones that show some thought and care has been taken.

Failing that, at least something that is delivered with a personal touch, either a note or a call. We do a thing every year where we give customers from the previous year a coupon code for a percentage off their first order of the new year. We call each customer personally, which takes quite a while, but many of them tell us how much it means to get a personal thank you and not just a form card or e-mail with the code.

JacobBergeron
11-15-2011, 09:39 PM
Being in the promotional products industry I often deal with this issue, clients ask the very same question that you are asking. Most of my clients are looking to gain something from the promo products they order. However I see time and time again people ordering things that are to generic and out of touch with their customer base. I would say that a gift that is genuine and relevant is the ideal gift. What is relevant to the relationship between customer and business in my opinion is most important.

An example could be someone who owns a bakery, perhaps small pastries packaged with a kitchen item with the businesses logo and information on it. It's both usable, (hopefully delicious), and shows the customer you care. It's important to make the gift industry relevant, one that supports the brand you are trying to promote. I think the key is getting personal with customers and clients, a lot can be said for simple relevant gifts.

Blessed
11-16-2011, 03:59 PM
I'm going to second what Jacob said and what Kristine said and what Ann said and even what mailorder said -

Industry relevant simple gifts are good, a personal thank you and a simple small discount, an extra of something you sell thrown into the box or a freebie at the cash register, extra discount there - etc... all those things are good. The most important thing is to pay attention to your clients, figure out what they need and could use and find something relevant to give.

huggytree
11-16-2011, 09:58 PM
i recieve nuts and summer sausage from supplier salesman....blah, blah...

it all depends on the $$ involved in sales

if your getting $100,000 a year from a customer you better do something nice

ive gotten $50 gift certificates from people i refer work to and thought it was stingy....the one im thinking of gets 6-8 jobs a month from me and makes $150 per job...he's making $10,000 a year in free leads from me...and $50 is all he can give in return....( i give him leads because he does a good job, but giving me .5% back as a gift probably made me feel worse towards him vs not giving me anything at all(industry standard is 10% for leads)

i typically give very nice christmas gifts to top customers...i look for something they are into.....my favorite a few years ago got a $325 toilet w/ free install...i found out he's still telling everyone who comes into his basement about his 'special' toilet....i did about $40,000+ in business w/ him this year and will be taking him out for a $350 dinner this Sat.

i was just taken out for lunch by a supplier yesterday...i showed up around lunch and he asked if i wanted to go for a free meal....the cost was small, but the suprise made it 'special'

i recommend finding out what your customer is into...if you can spend $300-500 on a gift you will be loved....

if your budget is $25 range your better off giving them a christmas ornament. i had a supplier that would make a different home made ornament each year...my wife liked it....it made me feel a bit special at the moment, but was forgotten by me in a day or 2

id spend big or not at all....but i deal in thousands every day...many small businesses dont and i understand you cant spend all your profit on gifts

i think its impossible to give anything special for $25...i send cards with my family photo on them.....thats the generic gift i give out to my basic customer

Spider
11-17-2011, 09:04 AM
he's making $10,000 a year in free leads from me...and $50 is all he can give in return = 0.5%

(industry standard is 10% for leads)

i did about $40,000+ in business w/ him this year and will be taking him out for a $350 dinner = 0.875%

?

Steve B
11-17-2011, 10:01 AM
Sorry HT - but your stuff sounds more like "kickbacks" to me than gifts. I'm glad I'm not in your industry where there is an expectation of bribes etc.

mailorder
11-17-2011, 02:59 PM
Sorry HT - but your stuff sounds more like "kickbacks" to me than gifts. I'm glad I'm not in your industry where there is an expectation of bribes etc.
You do know that’s how our government is set up right?

Business Attorney
11-17-2011, 04:48 PM
Sorry HT - but your stuff sounds more like "kickbacks" to me than gifts. I'm glad I'm not in your industry where there is an expectation of bribes etc.

This is getting a little off-topic for what types of gifts would "knock your socks off," but I don't think Huggy's situation sounds like a kickback or bribe at all. Huggy refers business to the other plumber regardless, but just expresses his feeling that a $50 gift for sending $10,000 in business his way is a little stingy. On the other hand, Huggy's taking a good client out for a nice dinner is just good business sense.

Some businesses get new business by advertising or by word of mouth, but there are a lot of businesses where referrals from other business people is the principal source of business. If referrals are a major source of business, you need to show appreciation to the people who regularly refer business to you. They are basically your salesmen.

Steve B
11-17-2011, 07:55 PM
That is your opinion David. I don't agree however. When there is a mathematical forumula involved in the calculation of how much to spend on the gift - it seems a little different than a "gift".

vangogh
11-17-2011, 08:49 PM
I think there's a level of "it depends" here. Are we talking about gifts to a small handful of people who each contribute significantly to your business or are we talking about gifts to a large number of people, none of who contribute significantly on their own, but in total do.

Another reason "it depends" is 2 different people can get the same gift and have completely different reactions to it. Look no further than this thread. You have recommendations to make it personal. You have the value of the gift being equated equally to it's monetary value. You have the thought that as soon as the thought of money enters into it, it's no longer a gift.

I think something of the personal will go further with more people. For example with huggy's dinner to me the more important aspect is that we'd be spending some time together. Whether dinner came to $350, $150, or $750 it wouldn't make that much of a difference to me. On the other hand price does enter it in the sense that if dinner was McDonald's I'd likely feel insulted. I don't think there should be a 1:1 with the monetary value of the gift, but there are points above which the monetary value alone will knock your socks off and points below where you might feel insulted.

If you're giving out a few gifts you can definitely take some time to learn enough about who your giving the gift to, to make it something they personally appreciate. With some people it might just be monetary value, but with most it probably just needs the gift to be thoughtful.

If you're giving out a lot of gifts it's unlikely you'll be able to learn enough about everyone to make it personal. However in that case the personal could be you. Make it something only you could give. For example imagine an artist sending out a unique sketch to everyone. I recently read how WooThemes (a company that sells WordPress themes) will at times send handwritten thank you notes to their customers. I don't think they send them to everyone and I don't think it's timed with a specific gift giving occasion. Imagine though getting the mail and there's a handwritten note saying thanks you for being a customer from a business you probably didn't think knew you personally existed.

Steve B
11-17-2011, 09:09 PM
Actually - I forgot that at two different companies that I worked for any gift valued at over $25 was not allowed to be accepted. I don't think living with this rule in the corporate world necessarily shaped my thinking, but apparently at least two very large companies seemed to think accepting gifts from suppliers could be construed as innapropriate. One was a Fortune 500 and the other was the second largest privately held company in the U.S.

billbenson
11-17-2011, 11:35 PM
Wining and dining was the way business was done when I was doing field sales. All year long, not just at christmas. And I sold to major telephone companies back when there were only 7 nationally.

I don't think of that as bribing my customers though. It was face time.

greenoak
11-18-2011, 06:57 AM
ive had huge customers who i didnt think about giving large gifts to...i thought of the relationship more as a win win thing.... ;yes they bought a lot....but they were glad to and made money doing it....i dont think either one of us were worried about the gifts....but there were little gifts all thru the relationiship...and from them to us too...the wonderful customer im thinking of did get a gift at the end ...a tiffany bracelet and yes she was thrilled...i hope she didnt figure the cost ,125$$$ against all the thousands of $$$ she had spent with us over the previous 10 yrs...
i dont expect gifts and dont think anyone is stingy if they dont send one....
give me a good deal or save me something desireable that you know i would like when i come to buy from you....that would be the best!!!

Business Attorney
11-18-2011, 10:25 AM
That is your opinion David. I don't agree however. When there is a mathematical forumula involved in the calculation of how much to spend on the gift - it seems a little different than a "gift".

I agree that where there is a mathematical calculation it is different than a "gift." I re-read huggy's post though and all I see (other than a parenthetical about 10% for leads which had no direct bearing on what huggy said he did) is a concept that a gift to someone who has a substantial impact on your business should be notable in some respect or you may be better off giving nothing at all. I don't see anything that looks like a bribe in what huggy said and am very curious as to what statements you perceive as inappropriate.

On another note, just because something is not a gift does not make it wrong, either. For attorneys handling personal injury cases, it is common practice to pay a referral fee to another attorney who refers a case to the PI attorney. A typical referral fee is one-third of the PI attorney's fee. At least in Illinois, the client must be informed of the fee in writing, the client must consent in writing and the fee must be reasonable. It is clearly not a gift from the PI attorney to the referring attorney, but with full disclosure and consent from the client, it is clearly not a "bribe" or "kickback".


Actually - I forgot that at two different companies that I worked for any gift valued at over $25 was not allowed to be accepted. I don't think living with this rule in the corporate world necessarily shaped my thinking, but apparently at least two very large companies seemed to think accepting gifts from suppliers could be construed as inappropriate. One was a Fortune 500 and the other was the second largest privately held company in the U.S.

I think at large companies, those rules are important because the gift is not going to the same person who bears the cost of the gift recipient's decision. I once had an employee who ordered a year's supply of overpriced toner for our copier because the seller offered a free CD player for the purchase. In my mind, that was a bribe. The seller was encouraging an employee to make a business decision on the basis that the employee, not the business, would receive an economic benefit.

That is far different than what huggy describes. A builder who has any economic sense at all is not going to give $40,000 in business to a plumber who is unqualified or overpriced just because the plumber takes him out to dinner once a year. The $40,000 is his bread-and-butter and he takes the hit if he gives the business to the wrong guy.

Steve B
11-18-2011, 11:00 PM
Paragraphs 2, 3, 4 and 5 in HT's post all made some connection between magnitude of the business received and magnitude of the gift. In these cases the gift is coming after the business is received, so the concept of a bribe does not apply on year 1. But, since X-mas comes along every year, it's certainly not a big leap for the implication being ... keep sending me a lot of business and you will keep getting big gifts. Considering there are humans involved (much like your toner example), the material reward or the implication of future material rewards certainly has the possibility of distorting sound business decisions.

I like your example of the full disclosure (which, is a practice I imagine imposed on the legal industry because someone must have thought it wouldn't be right NOT disclose such payments.) I think that's a great practice for anyone that refers business to others in return for either a direct payment or for the hopes of future large gifts. If this full disclosure concept was utilized in the construction trades, it might go something like this: Let's say I ask two plumbers who they think I should hire as an electrician. Plumber #1 tells me "I think Mr. X is a great electrician, and, since I started referring business to him he has been giving me expensive gifts at Christmas." Plumber #2 tells me, " Mr. Y is a great electrician, and I never have received nor has he offered me anything of value in return for the business I send to him." Perhaps they are both giving me the best referal for all the right reasons, but I would have to place a bit more credibilty on Plumber #2's referal.

I certainly understand the concept of referals and even the concept of business gifts. My point is that the magnitude should be such that there is no appearance of impropriety. Of course, there is a lot of gray in the definitions - I was in agreement with the $25 set by the corporate world I was in. I don't think any reasonable person would be worried about decisions being influenced by such a small amount.

billbenson
11-18-2011, 11:42 PM
I once had an employee who ordered a year's supply of overpriced toner for our copier because the seller offered a free CD player for the purchase. In my mind, that was a bribe. The seller was encouraging an employee to make a business decision on the basis that the employee, not the business, would receive an economic benefit.

But David, in this case, wouldn't that CD player be the property of the company, not the employee? If the employee made the toner purchase so she could personally receive the CD player, that is certainly IMO a bribe. If she made the toner purchase because it included a CD player and she took the CD player, that sounds like theft, just as if she took one of the toner cartridges home for personal use? In either case, much broader company policies must have been violated.

Business Attorney
11-21-2011, 12:11 PM
But David, in this case, wouldn't that CD player be the property of the company, not the employee? ... If she made the toner purchase because it included a CD player and she took the CD player, that sounds like theft, just as if she took one of the toner cartridges home for personal use?

Yes and yes. In our case, our staff consisted of 2 fairly young secretaries, one of whom ordered our office supplies. We were not pleased but felt it was a mistake in judgment on her part and were more upset with the toner company's sales tactics.

In fact it is common among the several office supplies companies we currently deal with to routinely include free gifts for purchases over a certain amount. These are usually not gifts that are suitable for the office. Examples have included a set of BBQ tools, an insulated soft-sided picnic bag and a mini MP3 player (essentially a flash drive with a set of ear buds). We made in clear to our current staff that these belong to the partners, though we usually end up giving them to the staff anyway. We just don't want them to be tempted to order something we don't need just to get some cheap gift.

billbenson
11-21-2011, 06:03 PM
Yes and yes. In our case, our staff consisted of 2 fairly young secretaries, one of whom ordered our office supplies. We were not pleased but felt it was a mistake in judgment on her part and were more upset with the toner company's sales tactics.

In fact it is common among the several office supplies companies we currently deal with to routinely include free gifts for purchases over a certain amount. These are usually not gifts that are suitable for the office. Examples have included a set of BBQ tools, an insulated soft-sided picnic bag and a mini MP3 player (essentially a flash drive with a set of ear buds). We made in clear to our current staff that these belong to the partners, though we usually end up giving them to the staff anyway. We just don't want them to be tempted to order something we don't need just to get some cheap gift.

This is why I object to rigid guidelines (although there may be no avoiding them). Many employee handbooks would require you to fire the employee rather than make a decision that she was a good employee that made a mistake.

For that matter, a weekend pot smoker could easily test positive (I believe) for a day or two. That could be grounds for dismissal in many companies. It also might be your best employee. Where it becomes an issue is when someone is hungover and driving a fork lift or similar.

I believe you said earlier that large companies must have these sort of regulations in place. I question whether strict policies are the best way to manage this sort of thing.

Guess that's a little off topic from HT's post but...

huggytree
11-23-2011, 07:12 AM
he's making $10,000 a year in free leads from me...and $50 is all he can give in return = 0.5%

(industry standard is 10% for leads)

i did about $40,000+ in business w/ him this year and will be taking him out for a $350 dinner = 0.875%

?

one is a free lead and one is working for the guy...2 completely different things

i always give 10% back on free leads

huggytree
11-23-2011, 07:20 AM
Sorry HT - but your stuff sounds more like "kickbacks" to me than gifts. I'm glad I'm not in your industry where there is an expectation of bribes etc.

in a way it is...if i can get them a job instead i do....but if you cant you should reward them somehow

i believe in spreading the wealth around to those who deserve it....i had a friend just help me on a commercial job. i wouldnt have been able to do it w/o him....they had tons of extra's on the job and i ended up making double the expected profit....i also charged $92 per hour for him and only paid him $75

i just got him a $580.00 gift...something we talked about that i know he wants

i could have kept all the profit, but by giving him a extra bonus i hope he will continue to help me in the future

spend a bit more today and make more tomorrow.....its an investment

huggytree
11-23-2011, 07:24 AM
On the other hand, Huggy's taking a good client out for a nice dinner is just good business sense.



what im actually doing is becoming friends with the customer...letting him get to know my wife and sometimes my kids.....making him realize that if he stops using my business that it effects my family.

you become friends with a customer by doing things together...if you dont have things in common then going out for dinner is a thing to do.

huggytree
11-23-2011, 07:28 AM
That is your opinion David. I don't agree however. When there is a mathematical forumula involved in the calculation of how much to spend on the gift - it seems a little different than a "gift".

the formula is what builders markup subs typically.....i think thats where it comes from....i agree to do a builders plumbing for $1,000 and the builder charges the customer $1,100.......then it works in reverse if he refers someone to me w/o making the profit....i must charge $1,100 for the same job and give him the $100 back.....

when someone gives me a referral and doesnt make profit on it you need to reward them....its their customer...there advertising or word of mouth found that customer!...when i advertise in the phone book and spend $1,000 a year...i expect to make $10,000 off that ad...if i dont then it wasnt worth it......the only phone book i advertise in costs me $500 and i make $5,000-$8,000 a year from it....

Steve B....in a way your right, but there's 2 ways to slant it....

huggytree
11-23-2011, 07:35 AM
i used to use a different drain cleaner...they did a good job.....no complaints.....i never got 1 job or any thing back from it....i stopped using them

the guy i use now gets me a job or 2 a year....thats the important thing!...the $50 he gave me for Christmas meant nothing because it was very minor....it didnt effect me using him or not.......if he would have given me $1,000 back it probably would have effected how i view him in a positive way....id be making $ on him.....

i could hire him out myself and bill the customer for 10% more than he charges....the guy's even advised me to. i dont want to bother for all the hassle of billing 100 customers to make $10 per customer......but if he were smarter he'd charge 10% more and pay me that 10% monthly...............would that be wrong???

i specifically use him for TWO reasons....1. he does a good job 2. he gets me referrals.....a 3rd reason would make the relationship even better.... .3 he gives me 10% back on referrals

would that be wrong?

Steve B
11-24-2011, 08:11 AM
I feel bad for the first drain cleaner.

I refer people that I believe will do a good job. I don't want or look for anything in return. I'm sure many people understand and agree with this concept of (fill in the blank) ___________ (i.e. rewards, paybacks, kickbacks, bribes, expectations of generous gifts). However, I personally wouldn't want anyone to think I'm refering them to someone because I'm going to get something monetary in return. I think people always want to know the other person's motivation in any situation. Notice that I do NOT include "refers business to me in return" in the fill-in-the-blank list. I think that's completely different because you still have to go and earn that money by doing the work.

I'm not saying that it would be wrong, but I can just tell you that I personally would rather get referrals that are not influenced by direct or indirect payments.

HT - thanks for being honest in your responses. At least you're willing to recognize that I have a valid perception. Apparently I'm not alone or there wouldn't have been laws passed requiring lawyers to disclose these types of payments within their industry.

billbenson
11-24-2011, 11:39 AM
I feel bad for the first drain cleaner.

I refer people that I believe will do a good job. I don't want or look for anything in return. I'm sure many people understand and agree with this concept of (fill in the blank) ___________ (i.e. rewards, paybacks, kickbacks, bribes, expectations of generous gifts). However, I personally wouldn't want anyone to think I'm refering them to someone because I'm going to get something monetary in return. I think people always want to know the other person's motivation in any situation. Notice that I do NOT include "refers business to me in return" in the fill-in-the-blank list. I think that's completely different because you still have to go and earn that money by doing the work.

I'm not saying that it would be wrong, but I can just tell you that I personally would rather get referrals that are not influenced by direct or indirect payments.

HT - thanks for being honest in your responses. At least you're willing to recognize that I have a valid perception. Apparently I'm not alone or there wouldn't have been laws passed requiring lawyers to disclose these types of payments within their industry.

I agree steve. It seems like there are a number of business categories that operate under different business practices than I would consider the norm. I'm sure all of them haven't been mentioned here.

huggytree
11-24-2011, 11:50 AM
I feel bad for the first drain cleaner.

I refer people that I believe will do a good job. I don't want or look for anything in return.
I'm not saying that it would be wrong, but I can just tell you that I personally would rather get referrals that are not influenced by direct or indirect payments.

HT - thanks for being honest in your responses.

im always painfully honest

Any business i give out to another trade i EXPECT something in return....#1 is a referral!!! thats part of networking....if i give you a few leads i expect a lead in return...if you cant get me one ill find another guy who does good work who can.....i dont expect $$ in return, but if you cant get me referrals its a great gesture.

i give $$ in return when i cant get the person a referral.....its how i operate....

the giving and receiving of referrals goes back to my BNI group......i was trained on it for years.... i just stopped using an electrician last month because ive given him 6 referrals over a years time w/o 1 in return.....ive made him $2,000-$3,000+ and he's done nothing for me......ill give my referrals out to someone who ALSO wants to help my business in return....i never expect 1 for 1....but i expect a lot better than 6 for 0

i never refer jobs to someone who will do a poor job....i refer out to the best who also gives me work in return



Steve, in a way your right and in a way your wrong....i rarely add 10% on to my jobs as a kick back to whom referred me...sometimes i do though......i am not forcing a homeowner to sign my contract...if they dont like the price they can go elsewhere...its a free market....on most jobs 10% = $50.......its not like im marking up $10,000 jobs by $1,000 for a kick back......i almost never do paybacks in cash either...its typically meals out and gift certificates..... i really dont see anything wrong with it personally......

leads cost money....there are websites devoted to finding leads and they charge a heck of alot more than 10%.....leads can come from advertising or previous customers....they cost the original person $ to find.... when they are giving me a lead from one of their existing customers they should get a small cut to cover their expenses... those leads arent MY customers...they are the BUILDERS customers that he is giving to me

SnellExperts
11-26-2011, 11:32 AM
What about a birthday card with a gift card, or gas card or something in it. You don't see it often so it would stand out to me quite a bit more.

greghughes1985
11-30-2011, 06:33 AM
i'd be pretty much psyched if I receive a discount coupon from a business. Just think of something that they can and will use and you should be good.