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vangogh
09-09-2011, 10:56 PM
Just read this post from SEOmoz about Tracking the KPIs of Social Media (http://www.seomoz.org/blog/tracking-the-roi-of-social-media). The post is mainly about tracking key performance indicators from different social media sites. It talks about different metrics you might be concerned with on Facebook and Twitter, etc. However that's not why I'm starting a thread about it.

The reason for the SEOmoz post is that it's hard to track the effectiveness of social media. Before getting into all the analytics talk there's a section at the top titled, Why + Where Social Matters, that considers social media's place in the conversion funnel. Here's a quote that sums it up nicely.


Social media isn't the deal closer - it's the channel that creates potential for a future conversion

Rand talks about social media, being part of the discovery phase of the conversion funnel. There's a nice graphic in this section of the post showing this.

I always see a lot of people here asking questions about how to get more links from social sites or how to get followers to buy something and that's not social's part in making a sale. Social sites come much earlier in the process. They won't close the sale, but they can lead people into the funnel that's on your website.

I'll leave you with one more bit from the post.



Social media does lots of good things for businesses and brands on the web:


Drives traffic
Builds brand familiarity
Creates positive associations with the brand
Delivers social proof via the people sharing the content and discussing the brand
Attracts brand followers and evangelists who can help spread the word




When you see social media this way it changes how you go about using it. It's no longer about tweeting a link directly to your products or artificially increasing your Facebook friends. It's about having another channel to reach people and generate brand awareness. It's about leading people back to your site, which can then work to turn visitor into buyer.

Give the article on SEOmoz a read, even if just for the part at the top about social media's place in a conversion.

KristineS
09-12-2011, 12:48 PM
I like that whole "Social media does lots of good things for businesses and brands on the web" list. I get tired of the whole ROI argument because to me social media is about relationship building. Some of those people may become customers, and some may help spread the word about your business/brand to other people who become customers, and some people may never care at all about what you say or who you are. Still, having a social media presence does all the things that list mentions and it allows you to have real time, immediate interaction with people who are at least interested enough in what you have to offer to give you a bit of their attention.

I also agree with you that when you look at social media like that it changes how you handle your accounts. I see so many people who are pushing the hard sell and not doing anything to form relationships and then wondering why social media isn't bringing tons of customers to their door. It's really sad that so many people are trying to apply metrics to social media that just don't fit.

vangogh
09-12-2011, 06:43 PM
I don't mind when people try to figure out the ROI of social media, but it falls into a part of the process that's really hard to measure. I'm with you that it's more about building relationships. It's also big for branding. Both are hard to quantify in terms of ROI.

We had a few threads here recently focused on how to get links from social media and other direct things like that. Then I saw the SEOmoz post and thought it would be good here.

In general you aren't going to see such direct results from social sites. I think the benefits are more the indirect. Making friends and contacts for the future, getting your name out there so it's recognizable. To me that's a good thing so most people don't like the direct selling thing. I think lots of people feel a bit spammy when they're pushing products on other people. Selling indirectly eliminates those qualms and works really well online as long as you're willing to put in the up front work.

It'll take some time to build up your brand and network, but once you do it'll be easier to sell without having to be pushy.

Stu_Upton
09-13-2011, 11:31 AM
I don't mind when people try to figure out the ROI of social media, but it falls into a part of the process that's really hard to measure. I'm with you that it's more about building relationships. It's also big for branding. Both are hard to quantify in terms of ROI.

Maybe I should have read this thread before starting mine.

vangogh
09-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Nah. It's never too late to learn or readjust where you've been.

KristineS
09-13-2011, 12:18 PM
Although, I will say that I have seen sales come from our social media accounts. It does make it easier for people to connect, and it allows a potential customer to figure out what your company is about before they buy. We do have customers that came from our social media connections, so it can and does work for selling. I just don't think that should be the primary aim of having the accounts.

vangogh
09-13-2011, 10:17 PM
That's how I feel too. I don't want to imply that social sites can't lead directly to a sale, but it shouldn't be the primary focus. Most stats will show people on social sites aren't looking to buy while they're there. It makes sense since people are there to socialize. That's what you should take advantage of. Socialize with people and build the relationships you're going to need to help your business. You can gain from those relationships at a later point.

Stu_Upton
09-15-2011, 08:46 AM
So I suppose that a certain amount of it comes back to the old saying that 'people buy from people' and building the initial trust relationship in a non-sales pressured social environment works as the electronic ice-breaker for any future conversations, really good article

seolman
09-15-2011, 10:51 AM
Great article and spot on. Social media reminds me of the giant billboards along the highway (example: with Coca Cola ads). How many people bought Coke after seeing the billboard? Can't really be measured and shouldn't be. We all know that branding, just keeping the name/product in front of people, is a big part of not allowing competition to distract our customer base. It's also a major part of the "discovery" process for new potential buyers. For this reason most businesses cannot ignore social media.

vangogh
09-15-2011, 11:21 AM
Interesting comparison. I never really thought of social media like a billboard, but in some ways it's an apt comparison. Of course social gives you more since you can interact with the community. I can't recall ever having had a conversation with a billboard.

seolman
09-15-2011, 11:56 AM
I can't recall ever having had a conversation with a billboard.

That's because you never put your heart into it! Next time you pass a billboard strike up a conversation.

KristineS
09-15-2011, 01:35 PM
I'd guess billboards and social media would be lumped under things that give you top of mind awareness.

And I'm sure, if they don't already exist, that talking billboards are not far away.

vangogh
09-16-2011, 11:12 AM
That's because you never put your heart into it! Next time you pass a billboard strike up a conversation.

Don't forget I'm an ear short so I can only talk to them when approaching from one side of the highway.


I'd guess billboards and social media would be lumped under things that give you top of mind awareness.

Maybe, but I think social media has a greater potential to give you that awareness, mainly because that awareness can reach you at a variety of times and in a variety of places, and through a variety of sources. Seeing a friend recommend a brand is likely going to carry more weight than passing a sign on the highway. And again those signs don't respond well to questions.

KristineS
09-16-2011, 01:09 PM
Maybe, but I think social media has a greater potential to give you that awareness, mainly because that awareness can reach you at a variety of times and in a variety of places, and through a variety of sources. Seeing a friend recommend a brand is likely going to carry more weight than passing a sign on the highway. And again those signs don't respond well to questions.

Oh, I'd agree with you. Social media is much more interactive, and that counts. The best a billboard can do is give you a URL or a phone number where you can find out more information. Or, I suppose, they could spur an impulse, like when you're driving on the highway and you see a sign for a restaurant that looks good so you stop their for lunch. That sort of thing. And I think the impulse stuff is diminishing because people can now search on their phones and find a good place to stop for lunch long before they might see the billboard. I'm guessing that's part of the reason why you see more billboards for rent these days.

vangogh
09-16-2011, 07:44 PM
The best a billboard can do is give you a URL or a phone number where you can find out more information.

Assuming you aren't driving by too fast to read, record, and remember.

Other than while on a road trip where I'm specifically looking for a place to ear, a place to stay, gas for the car, or just something interesting to do, I don't think I've ever paid attention to any billboard I've ever seen. I don't want to say they can't or don't work, but I can't say I can recall any of the ones I might have seen either.

KristineS
09-19-2011, 01:06 PM
I did some long road trips this summer and I probably paid attention to billboards more than the average person because of my job. So I'm guessing you're probably right. Most people don't pay attention or retain the info. Probably the most successful billboards are those for companies that also do advertising in other places as well.

vangogh
09-20-2011, 10:48 AM
I think the main benefit in billboards is branding. People may not read every word on them, but I do think they see the name and eventually recognize the brand. It also depends where your billboard is located. Is it on the highway with people driving by at 60+ mph or is it near the exit into town where people are slowing down or even momentarily stopped.

greenoak
10-03-2011, 09:03 AM
for me its about sales and relationship....the aim is always to keep us on their mind and to tempt them to come see us....and buy something.... we see very direct results from our facebook.... over and over...they mention it in the store as they are shopping with us....i know several other places with this experience.....
. but we are local and the goal is to lead them to the store not the site..its still a conversion funnel tho!!!!...we should hit 1900 facebook fans this week....i think we are at 1898...

KristineS
10-03-2011, 01:03 PM
Social media is definitely about relationships, and I wish more people who were using it for business got that.

I also don't think it matters if the goal is to bring them to a site or to a store, you're still making a connection that you hope will inspire some sort of action.

greenoak
10-05-2011, 01:31 PM
my billboards are a call to action... telling them what for, where to turn and how far ahead.... we designed our billboards with the thought that 7 words was about it....mine are local tho...very local...like 10 miles ahead...2 miles ahead....but they have to be seen and digested at 65 mph...
we do hear ...weve seen your billboards for years and finally decided to stop... kind of sad isnt it!!!

vangogh
10-06-2011, 10:55 AM
weve seen your billboards for years and finally decided to stop... kind of sad isnt it

Ann I think it shows how advertising works. People don't necessarily see an ad once and respond. They have to see ads again and again and again before the ad gets them to take action. It's good that you keep the same billboard in the same location. It might not get someone to stop the first time they see it, but it sounds like it eventually gets them to stop.

It's also something to remember when you try other advertising that may not work right away. It's possible that you need to run whatever ad for several months before you start seeing the results.

KristineS
10-06-2011, 12:12 PM
I think all advertising is cumulative. I know of very few products that were advertised once and that's it. Everything builds the brand and spreads the brand message.

greenoak
10-06-2011, 02:07 PM
right, we have always felt that way and i always advise that too....... back when we started we ran the same ad for over a year...and we have one logo thats over 20 yrs old....i think a one or 2 times ad run is a big waste...lots do it tho....
.. on the billboard...i think if i could ever figure out the right keyword to add the return would be lots better...
ann

George
10-06-2011, 11:33 PM
I agree that it's difficult to measure the actual ROI of Social Media, yet we all agree it's important. It's really a more active "blog" a way of keeping your business alive and interracting with your customers and community. We have an employee that's dedicated to Social Media and that guy spits our content every dat - really gives people a reason to keep checking. We also keep things personal - making the posts look like they're done by a human. Social Media definately isn't a deal closer or an integral part of any sales funnel - but it's a great way to interract with your customers - which carries it's own value and ROI.

greenoak
10-07-2011, 09:53 AM
here its a huge part of the sales funnel....meaning it has tons to do with getting them to come here...definitley hard to actually measure tho.... especially when you have lotsof different connections with your customers all the time like we do....email,billboards, past history, website, word of mouth, paper pick ups in the store,yearly events they want to come to, and facebook...

KristineS
10-10-2011, 12:55 PM
There's a big argument going on right now in some places about how the ROI of social media should be quantified, if it should be quantified at all, or if it even matters. The thing about social media is that it can't really be held to traditional Marketing metrics. As Ann points out, it is part of the sales funnel, part of keeping your name out there and in front of people, but it may not be the thing that actually generates the sale.

Personally, I think people who get caught up in the whole measuring ROI thing are looking at the wrong part of the equation. Social media offers a great way to connect with customers and form relationships on which you can build. To me that has immense value, even if it's hard to quantify what that value is exactly.

vangogh
10-10-2011, 08:22 PM
I think there are ways to measure it. For example a coupon that you only mention on Facebook. You collect the coupons and compare it everyone who's a fan and you get a feel for how it's working. You could even say mention Facebook the next time you're in the store for a free gift. The gift doesn't have to be worth much.

If you're growing a mailing list you could give out slightly different URLs to different social sites to see which leads to the most signups. There are all sorts of things you can do to measure ROI in some way. None will be perfect, but so what?

I agree it's about the relationships and connecting more than anything else, but if you don't have any idea of whether or not it's working at all then you could be wasting your time. You won't have any idea how to improve things or if you're improving them after trying. You don't have to measure direct sales, but you should be measuring something.

KristineS
10-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Yes, there are ways to measure ROI, and I do agree you need to have some sort of gauge to figure out if whatever social media you're using is helping, but I think a lot of companies try to tie it directly to sales and that doesn't make any sense to me. If you're constantly hammering sales on your social media platforms then social media probably won't work for you. No one wants to be "sold" at all the time. If your only metric is how many sales your social media efforts generate, then I think you're missing the point.

vangogh
10-11-2011, 01:09 PM
I agree about the direct connection to sales since I don't think social leads directly to sales. That doesn't mean you shouldn't track what's going on or even try to track socials influence on the bottom line. ROI doesn't have to be about direct sales. You get to define the return you're measuring and you get to define the investment you're making.

greenoak
10-11-2011, 01:57 PM
we can make so many judgements on our own...i know facebook is good and helping because i hear about it a lot...more than once a day from customers.... and maybe my customers are wierd but they dont really respond to the normal advice about how to trace sales, like coupons or specials...i am very confidant on this and dont worry about working on any further proof.... ...... they do gripe if they fall off our email or snail mail lists ....we are very connected......
im curious about what you think is between someone seeing a harvest table on my facebook page and soon after , them coming in to buy it..... that happens a lot... to me thats a direct connection.a sales funnel...
and hopefully there is the good connecting going on even if they dont come in that week...
im so different from a what you called a micro business...we have dozens of folks thru everyday and with them we talk talk talk...and sell sell sell..we had 160 actual sales last weekend..... so what seems obvious and right for your business model is probably pretty far from what seems obvious here..
..just today 2 people so far have mentioned our facebook...one thanked me for the paint recipe i have on there...they drove over an hour to see us...the other said she came from a facebook friends advice....both spent.

vangogh
10-11-2011, 10:05 PM
If people are telling you they came in because of your Facebook page then you are tracking things to some degree. Maybe you aren't setting up all kinds of tests to measure, but you're certainly getting some feedback.

With the person buying the harvest table that sounds like a direct connection, but is that the first time that person ever heard of you? I'm guessing it was someone who was already a fan and who you'd built a relationship with over time. That's what Kristine and I mean by it not being a direct thing. Would that person have bought the table had they not already been a fan? Would they have bought it had they not known you before? Would they even have found your page? It was probably more than seeing the picture the one time that led to the sale. All the little steps along the way probably contributed.