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frustrated
05-04-2011, 12:38 PM
Hey everyone - I'm new to the forum here. I came to the forum with the intention of asking this question and hoping to hear from folks who have gone through this or can offer advice.

I work with family at a small business. It's my folks and I, with one employee. I'm late 20's and they are early 50's. When I started here there were about 30 employees and they had a business partner. We are a company that gets a large amount of it's work from a few large contracts per year, and a small amount of it's work from small orders. We went through a period of time without a large order and had to let a lot of people go. We now have a few large orders we are working on, and things are looking good again - but we never hired the employees back. We are using other firms to subcontract the work to get these contracts finished because of uncertainty about the future. I'm giving you all that history because I think it's important to the question.

The problem is that I want out. I'm tired of working here and really unwilling to do some of the things that need to be done to make the business successful. The main item that is required is traveling. I have a large family and have been starting a side business to transition to (my parents know this) and traveling makes it very difficult to meet the demands of a second job and several small children with a wife that works full time. I have spoken with them about my desires, starting with a letter written to my dad over a year ago. He gave it back to me "in case I change my mind." I don't feel that I can leave because I feel that I would be hurting the company and my parents in a way that the company can't recover from.

They don't want to be involved in the company either, but have failed to plan for retirement and have no other options, except for another company they started in the last few years that they say can't provide for them yet. Frankly, my dad isn't here at this building much and probably only works 2-3 hours a day on this company anyway. That's the reason I don't feel like I can quit, he's spread so thin he has no time to do my job if I left.

I used to be happy here, but working in close contact with my family has really strained the relationship and things have changed. I know my folks feel the same way but they have no real options to sell. What we can't agree on is a way to close the business. I can't even get them to talk about it. I told them a year ago that I would stay until the debt was paid off, which will likely be this year or early next year - but they are not interested in beginning to sell seldom used equipment or stopping with advertising in hopes of being able to sell the business. They have no other employees to groom for the position and haven't looked into any other ways to sell either. This tells me that they aren't serious about getting out and it might be another 5 or ten years before they do. I don't want to wait that long.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have tried the following:

1) Sitting them down to talk about it. They keep putting the conversation off.
2) Giving them a date far in the future to allow them to make plans. It's been a year and the problem is worse now than a year ago.

I have considered the following:

1) Telling them I will finish the jobs that I am currently managing and my resignation will be effective at the completion of the job.
2) Going Part Time as a transition strategy while building my other business up. Part of my problem is that I can't commit enough time to the other business and can't really look for new customers as a result. The income from my primary job is "extra," so I can be flexible with this. But I would need stability.

Does anyone have any ideas?

vangogh
05-04-2011, 01:19 PM
Frist welcome to the forum.

Tough situation that's probably not going to have an easy solution as you know. I think you're making the right decision to leave the business. One of the big problems working with family or even friends is that it's hard to separate the business and the personal and relationships often suffer. I watched it happen in my own family. Not me personally, but other members of the family.

Your parents seem to be doing their best to ignore the situation, probably in the hopes you'll stay on or just to avoid having to deal with the situation. I think you do need to have the conversation. I'm not sure what the best way to make them listen is, but you may have to give them a deadline for how long you'll continue to work in the business and if they won't have the conversation stick to your guns and stop working in the business. I know that will be hard, but staying in it probably isn't going to change things. I wouldn't make that date too far into the future either. The further away it is the less likely they'll take it seriously.

Going part time might not be a bad idea. It doesn't completely remove you, but hopefully it gets them to realize they can't rely on you as they have been. I think you'd still need to set a deadline for going no-time too.

Is it possible you could find someone to replace you to keep the business going? How likely is it their other business could support them and be a way toward retirement if this one was closed? It's not sounding like the current business is going to be a workable solution anyway so is it possible that just letting it go would be the best option?

I know this is a difficult situation for both you and your parents. I think more than anything you all need to sit down and have the conversation everyone is avoiding. Sooner or later you're not going to be able to continue in the business with our without that conversation. Much better to have planned for that day than not.

Good luck.

greenoak
05-04-2011, 03:37 PM
good luck!!! we have a family business too....my son is looking fowrward to keeping it going...the hows are hard...

i like your idea of leaving after certain jobs are finished.... but even better is setting a date.....the end of a job might be hard to pin point and be a bone of contention....a date is certain.....but then its up to you...you have to really mean it and actually walk away at that date....and not show any willingness to bend...of course they want you to stay....but yOu can leave if you want to...and they are business owners and will have to figure something else out....
i take it you would be real hard to replace.....but if they know you mean it then they will be tryin g to do it...
their retirement isnt up to you....
i would probably quit trying to talk about it and just tell them that you will be leaving on X DAY....AND try and keep things as nice as you can...if you are actually sure and are going to stick to it then why open it up to conversaTION?..can THEY MAKE YOU HAPPY AND CHANGE YOUR MIND...? dont stay out of guilt .

i feel for your parents but its really up to you...

Spider
05-04-2011, 05:30 PM
Is it a viable business? If it's not a viable business, all bets are off and you need to get out right away. It might be unviable and still provide for your folks into retirement (there may still be a buggy whip maker ticking along somewhere for the historic trade!) But, at 20-something, you have a long life ahead of you and do not need to waste any of these important early years on an unviable business.

If it *is* a viable business and you want to stay and build it back up, you could do that and hire someone to do the travelling. Otherwise, I would suggest formulating a plan that involves an exit strategy for you, and for them. This could be as simple as proposing the sale of the business to one of your subcontractors. If that is rejected, ask if you own any portion of the business (unless it has already been formalized so you know the answer to that one) and can you sell your portion to a subcontractor? If you do not own any of the business, or if you do and your plan is rejected, offer to give your share of the business back to your parents or donate it to whomever they choose.

"But, Sorry, Mom and Dad, I have a life to live and a wife and children to provide for - your grandchildren. They must be my first priority."

The above does not require a sit-down conversation. This is a statement you will make, which you can make at any time.

An alternative plan (which you have in your other pocket) is to hire someone who wants to take over the business. Your parents can pay this person what you were getting paid but enter into a contract with this person to revitalize the business with the view to making it ready for sale. The contract would allow that he would receive 50% of the proceeds when sold, and if he wishes to buy the other 50% he may do so.

50% of a revitalized business is likely to be worth a whole lot more to your parents than 100% of the business they have now. And it would be in cash!

Just be ready to relinquish all rights to any share in the revitalized business if your replacement makes a fortune for your parents.

Shesmyremotepa
05-04-2011, 09:26 PM
First let me say this, everyone must be free to live their life in their own way. Whatever decision you make, someone possibly may be unhappy with it your decision. Yet, ask yourself do you prefer that unhappy person to be you? I am not saying this to be rude and disrespectful; I just want to give you a clear uncut vision of what is happening. Everyone makes decisions that best interest them including your parents’ discussion to continue the business. What you have done in the pass is go to your family in hopes they will approve your decision to move on. However, what you need to do is go to them, with a written notice, and state you are leaving with a certain departure date of your last day. You could as a courtesy find your replacement since they are family. However, ultimately you need to do what makes you happy. Yes, they might be upset, but as time pass they will realize that that decision was best for you. If you don’t do it you have no one to blame for your unhappiness and despondency, but yourself because you are a free agent and control your own happiness.

frustrated
05-05-2011, 02:30 PM
Spider - IMHO, the business could be viable. It's very dependent on the dollar and a stable economy. Long term I think the answer is no, at least not in it's current form. My folks agree too, but don't want to walk away from it. They want to try to turn it around and sell. I am afraid we're talking 5-10 years, and I'm not going to wait that long.

As far as being hard to replace, the answer is yes. That's part of the problem. I have a lot of institutional knowledge and specific training and experience that will be hard to replace.

vangogh
05-05-2011, 04:49 PM
Reading through your original post again here's what I see as the main issue


my dad isn't here at this building much and probably only works 2-3 hours a day on this company anyway.

In essence you feel you can't leave the company to work on the business you want, because your dad isn't spending time with his company so he can work on a different business. I realize I don't know the situation as well as you do, but it seems like you could leave if your dad would stay. Since this is your parent's company and the issue is getting it to help them in their retirement then it should be your dad who's working there full time and not you.

It really sounds like your parents are avoiding their responsibilities and letting you deal with them.

Spider
05-05-2011, 05:08 PM
Spider - IMHO, the business could be viable. It's very dependent on the dollar and a stable economy. Long term I think the answer is no, at least not in it's current form. My folks agree too, but don't want to walk away from it. They want to try to turn it around and sell. I am afraid we're talking 5-10 years, and I'm not going to wait that long.
.. As far as being hard to replace, the answer is yes. That's part of the problem. I have a lot of institutional knowledge and specific training and experience that will be hard to replace.I believe it's not my part to determine whose responsibility anything is, nor who should work where. Your parents want to turn the business round, you say, so let them. That part of it has nothing to do with you.

I don't see that you being irreplaceable as being any part of the problem, either. In fact, it is immaterial - because you are going to leave, you again confirm.

Therefore, none of this changes anything I have suggested.

frustrated
05-05-2011, 05:21 PM
It's not fair to say he's shirking on his responsibilities. I feel bad if I implied that. I agreed to take on the responsibilities I have. In my mind I expected parts of them to be temporary, but maybe I didn't convey that well. Either way, if I hadn't taken some of these responsibilities I wouldn't be here.

I guess it all comes down to guilt. I feel guilty for wanting to leave.

None of you feel I have any responsibility to stay and help get them and the company through a certian point?

Spider
05-05-2011, 09:04 PM
I agree with you about the shirking responsibilities part. Who is responsible for what is not really part of your question. I am only looking at what you want to stop doing. The reasons are your own and your parents' reasons are their own. Obviously there is some sense of guilt at play here, and very likely your parents are feeling some guilt for having put you in the position you are in. If you weren't being so honorable as a son, you would likely have left long ago.

I think the guilt angle can be resolved as follows. Are you going to feel more guilty for "abandoning" your parents (to use too-strong a word) or are you going to feel more guilty for not giving all you can to your wife and children by "abandoning " them? It's a rotten situation and the solution, I feel, is for you to do what you think is best. But you cannot do both - you cannot stay AND leave. You must decide which is best.

I was told a long time ago when I had a troubling dilemma - What does your heart say? Your brain will lead you all round the block, and you must give your brain a chance to get the facts straight. Once the facts are clear (and I think you have had enough time at this to know the facts), now - what does you heart say? Your heart knows what you must do - because there is only one answer for your heart (and I don't pretend to know what that is.)

Turn your brain off. Some people might go some place quiet and ask their heart for the answer. I think it's best to still one's mind, sit quiet amongst the subjects of the dilemma (in this case, have your wife and children and parents together but you sit out whatever conversation is going on) and there ask your heart, what is the right course?

If this is difficult, it is difficult because your brain is intruding, you haven't stopped thinking. Stop thinking and listen to your heart. The answer is there. And when you hear it, you will know it is the right answer.

vangogh
05-06-2011, 12:52 AM
I didn't mean to imply he was shirking his responsibility. I mostly want you to see it's not your responsibility to keep the business going. You have to live your life. I totally understand wanting to be there for your parents and making sure they're taken care of in retirement. I think it's great that you want to help them.

The thing is you can't live your life for them. You seem very reasonable in wanting to talk with them and plan for your exit. You may have a lot of specific knowledge and skills, but you weren't born with them. Someone else could be trained to take your place. I assume your dad also has the same knowledge and skills so he could do your job if he had to for a time. It's his business so it's more something he should be doing than you should be doing.

These are your words


This tells me that they aren't serious about getting out and it might be another 5 or ten years before they do

It's not fair to you to wait those 5 or 10 years and I doubt your parents want you to put your life on hold that long.

If you stay I don't think you're going to do anyone any good. You want out and it's likely you're performance in the business will suffer because of the desire to do something else. That could also create resentment for your parents. Your unhappiness could lead to trouble with your own family. I'm not saying these things will happen, but I know they could.

If you follow your own dreams you may end up in a better financial position to be able to support your parents as well.

How long have you been working for your parents? If it's been awhile then I think you've done what you agreed to. If it hasn't been all that long then it's an indication someone else could be trained to take your place.

You said you let your parents know a year ago you wanted out. A year is a lot of time that could have been used to train someone to take over your job.

greenoak
05-06-2011, 10:13 AM
i would just faint if my son wanted to leave....his responsibilities would never end....we would never get to the point that it would be ok...i would always need him.....and your parents probably feel like that too...
...get my point?
but its not my choice...its his....as a mom.as a business owner, ..my job is to make his job so good he wouldnt want to leave.....but i know its up to him...
you are sounding like the mom..trying to solve the kids problem...
they, the poor parents, have to take responsibility...not you....or did you talk them into something that hinges on you being there? are you breaking a contract/promise with them? ...
sounds like you have another family to consider ..
p.s. my son has 4 kids and i wouldnt think he would go for being out on the road...thats a lot of kids...i wouldnt ask either...

huggytree
05-12-2011, 04:39 PM
your parents are adults and have made their own decisions in their life which has made retirement impossible....

id just give them a 2 week notice and walk away....some people need a kick in the teeth to get moving.....help them find a replacement?

i wouldnt worry as much as you are about them...they will get by and evolve their plans...

can they sell the business?

if everything fails you can always let them live in a tent in your back yard....their new job can be finding aluminum cans to sell for food

they are adults..unless they have Alzheimers i wouldnt worry about them....let them live their lives too....

i am against working for family members...i have an uncle who builds houses....i made it clear i wont do plumbing for him....i also dont work for family members on their own homes anymore either...some have used me and ive learned my lesson...

my son has mentioned some day being a plumber...ive already told him at age 7 than he will not and that i will be selling my business some day and wont be passing it on.....i told him to be a doctor,lawyer or president of the united states of America

greenoak
05-12-2011, 05:48 PM
huggy,,,,it can be good........WHEN IT WORKS ITS GREAT..complicated for sure...
.it feels pretty good to be able to have a kid in a good job that he likes and is dedicated to...
i would never have worked for my dad tho andi wouldnt give special favors to outside family members....